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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 136139 times)

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Offline LoosCannon

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2000 on: March 08, 2016, 08:08:51 AM »
You are exactly right. It's just classic writing - if you rush to the payoff, it doesn't have the same impact as if it was built slower (although too slow is another problem).  I get the feeling that too many of the movies today are more about specticals rather than story. Age of Ultron was a good case - we have Vision pop up and a big fight and they win. Never did Ultron really use his abilities and act like... well, Ultron from the books.

I'll go see BvS, but I'm not expecting greatness.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2001 on: March 09, 2016, 08:28:47 AM »
I've been watching a bunch of the Justice League animated movies on Netflix (Justice League: War, The Flashpoint Paradox, etc.) and they're fantastic, but the fact that they expect you to know what the whole deal is with the Justice League and not provide you with their origins (in most cases) and such helps the flow of the story. Since BvS needs to do this with every character, that's going to slow things down. Granted, its runtime sounds an hour longer than the animated ones', but from the beginning, everyone was expecting only the titular characters. It's not like they're going to piss people off having only those two, so I don't get this mad obsession with shoehorning in so many of the League so soon. Wonder Woman could have, like how Civil War is doing with Spider-Man, been either confirmed or a rumor and not shown in the trailers and just be a pleasant surprise at some point in the movie and giving audiences a really nice, well-earned Easter Egg. That way, her role would have been more of a mystery and like Spider-Man, her purpose during the film would not be spoiled.

I'm really ragging on this movie, aren't I? I think it's worse after Deadpool, where you can see just how successful and immensely satisfying a film can be when it's worked on by those who, like the fans, are passionate about the material, and not by executives who are just motivated by numbers and are so scared shitless of losing money that it causes irrational thinking and affects judgment.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2002 on: March 09, 2016, 11:58:05 AM »
And, the fact that it seems that Zach Synder appears to be directing a large portion of the new slate of DC movies. Whereas Marvel has had a pretty decent success with selecting directors and writers for their movies to keep things fresh. What would the Marvel look like if they had one director pretty directing a majority of the movies where the theme and tone of the movies were the same? I don't think Ant-Man would have worked if it was portrayed as a dark, bleak, gritty movie?

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2003 on: March 09, 2016, 03:00:13 PM »
And, the fact that it seems that Zach Synder appears to be directing a large portion of the new slate of DC movies. Whereas Marvel has had a pretty decent success with selecting directors and writers for their movies to keep things fresh. What would the Marvel look like if they had one director pretty directing a majority of the movies where the theme and tone of the movies were the same? I don't think Ant-Man would have worked if it was portrayed as a dark, bleak, gritty movie?

The character(s) is the biggest determinant about what tone will work and what tone won't work, so you're right about Ant-Man. And in the MCU, at least until we see Civil War and get a glimpse of how the Russo bros do with it, directors returning in the MCU haven't been able to top their first entries (Iron Man 2 widely regarded as either bad or not anywhere near as good as the first, Age of Ultron being inferior to the original Avengers) so DC is apparently of the mind that the dark tone of Man of Steel was not the problem, nor Snyder's directing, and that in spite of much of what people had to complain about it, the solution is to inject Batman and a plethora of cameos. While that is admittedly a pretty good stop-gap measure, it is a guaranteed failure in the long-run to miss all the other flaws and not address them as well.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2004 on: March 09, 2016, 09:52:13 PM »
True. I didn't care much for Iron Man 2. It just seemed everyone was out of character and over the top acting. The movie seemed more of a vehicle to showcase Black Widow more then anything else. DC really needs to hire other directors. The overly dark tones of their slate of movies isn't appealing for all the movies. Batman, sure. Superman, not so much nor was making him kill General Zod. Wonder Woman, okay, I can see dark tones in the beginning of the movie to illustrate her life on Themyscara and so on.

Just from what I've seen of the trailers for Civil War, it looks like it will be pretty good. Sebastian Stan has a nine movie deal with Marvel/Disney. So far he has been in three. Captain America, Winter Soldier, and Civil War. Marvel seems to handle the ensemble casts a little better by using characters they have already introduced.

Heard a wild rumor, that Sylvester Stallone is rumored to appear in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2005 on: March 09, 2016, 10:23:20 PM »
True. I didn't care much for Iron Man 2. It just seemed everyone was out of character and over the top acting. The movie seemed more of a vehicle to showcase Black Widow more then anything else. DC really needs to hire other directors. The overly dark tones of their slate of movies isn't appealing for all the movies. Batman, sure. Superman, not so much nor was making him kill General Zod. Wonder Woman, okay, I can see dark tones in the beginning of the movie to illustrate her life on Themyscara and so on.

Just from what I've seen of the trailers for Civil War, it looks like it will be pretty good. Sebastian Stan has a nine movie deal with Marvel/Disney. So far he has been in three. Captain America, Winter Soldier, and Civil War. Marvel seems to handle the ensemble casts a little better by using characters they have already introduced.

Heard a wild rumor, that Sylvester Stallone is rumored to appear in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Wicked! Stallone, can't really picture what character he would be right for, so him being potentially in one of the far-removed parts of the MCU, i.e. the cosmic side, makes sense since it's likely to be smaller.

Oh, and it looks like JK Simmons returning as J. Jonah Jameson in any future Spidey outings might be out of the question...


Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2006 on: March 09, 2016, 10:59:52 PM »
I heard that J.K. Simmons was asked about returning as J. Jonah Jameson as there was a petition being circulated. If I remember right, he said he wasn't ruling out the possibility as he liked the character. And, depending on how big a role he has in Justice League, he could be done filming in a few days and be off to do something else. He was the best as J. Jonah Jameson. Though, it would have been interesting casting if they got Bryan Cranston to play Commissioner Gordon or brought back Gary Oldman.


Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2007 on: March 10, 2016, 08:08:54 AM »
I heard that J.K. Simmons was asked about returning as J. Jonah Jameson as there was a petition being circulated. If I remember right, he said he wasn't ruling out the possibility as he liked the character. And, depending on how big a role he has in Justice League, he could be done filming in a few days and be off to do something else. He was the best as J. Jonah Jameson. Though, it would have been interesting casting if they got Bryan Cranston to play Commissioner Gordon or brought back Gary Oldman.

Frankly Gary Oldman would be the best Jim Gordon, in my opinion. As for JJJ, I'm wondering if Simmons can grow his hair back enough for that or if those pictures of him bald are just the result of him shaving his head and not just his age. Still, they can probably make a wig decent enough to make him look the part if he did come back to the Spidey-verse. Of course with the direction they're going it doesn't seem like the Bugle will exist, let alone play any significant role.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2008 on: March 10, 2016, 02:57:58 PM »
The rumor about Sylester Stallone's character seems to be more of a cameo, and will be a nod to when he played Judge Dredd.

Gary Oldman was the best Commissioner Gordon. Though, have to admit Bryan Cranston would do a pretty good job too. He did voice Commissioner Gordon in Batman Year One.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2009 on: March 10, 2016, 08:45:39 PM »
The rumor about Sylester Stallone's character seems to be more of a cameo, and will be a nod to when he played Judge Dredd.

Gary Oldman was the best Commissioner Gordon. Though, have to admit Bryan Cranston would do a pretty good job too. He did voice Commissioner Gordon in Batman Year One.

Well Cranston has reportedly expressed an interest in appearing in a superhero film, and at one point rumors were suggesting he'd be playing Mr. Sinister in an upcoming X-Men film. They'd have to really kick up the CGI to de-age him for that. But there's plenty of other roles he could play in any number of franchises even at his age.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2010 on: March 10, 2016, 09:04:36 PM »
He could play Cameron Hodge in the X-Men movie if they do the Genosis plot with the Extinction Agenda, Executioner's Song and Phalanx Covenant. Hodge played a hand in the genocide on Genosis.

Or, he could play Henry Peter Gyrich. Someone like Mr. Sinister, kinda of envision someone like, Richard Roxburgh who played Dracula in Van Helsing. Sinister always seemed to be a character who was savvy, yet with a sadistic side. All while coldly anaylzing things in a twisted scientific manner. Sinister created Madelyn Pryor as a clone of Jean Grey in order to try to obtain the Phoenix Force. He also created the Marauders which led to the Morlock Massacre

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2011 on: March 11, 2016, 08:31:45 AM »
He could play Cameron Hodge in the X-Men movie if they do the Genosis plot with the Extinction Agenda, Executioner's Song and Phalanx Covenant. Hodge played a hand in the genocide on Genosis.

Or, he could play Henry Peter Gyrich. Someone like Mr. Sinister, kinda of envision someone like, Richard Roxburgh who played Dracula in Van Helsing. Sinister always seemed to be a character who was savvy, yet with a sadistic side. All while coldly anaylzing things in a twisted scientific manner. Sinister created Madelyn Pryor as a clone of Jean Grey in order to try to obtain the Phoenix Force. He also created the Marauders which led to the Morlock Massacre

I think they might be over-reaching themselves if they try the Phoenix stuff (if they go the cosmic route, at least) so maybe something involving the Savage Land? They should (the producers, I mean) go back and watch all the old X-Men cartoons to get ideas for what to base the movies around. Too bad so much of it is the Phoenix, and Apocalypse too.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2012 on: March 11, 2016, 10:51:36 AM »
The comics used the Phoenix Force quiet heavily. You had Jean in the green Phoenix outfit, then came the Dark Phoenix Saga shortly there after when the Hellfire Club was going after Kitty Pryde. The animated Dark Phoenix Saga followed mostly the comic book version without having Kitty Pryde. Then Madelyn Pryor appeared after "Jean"/Dark Phoenix died, which then led to the Inferno saga with the demons invading and Madelyn becoming the Goblin Queen. It is hard for the moviemakers to not do the Phoenix Force as it is pretty much entwined in pretty much all the comic book plots involving the X-Men.

I saw the new trailer for Civil War. Spider-man appearance was brief. Tony called him Underroos. It looks like it will be pretty good.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2013 on: March 11, 2016, 05:29:03 PM »
And Luke Cage now has a premiere date 30th September.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2014 on: March 11, 2016, 07:55:56 PM »
And Luke Cage now has a premiere date 30th September.

Damn it, I read on imdb that it was coming out in April! Six more months...sigh...

The comics used the Phoenix Force quiet heavily. You had Jean in the green Phoenix outfit, then came the Dark Phoenix Saga shortly there after when the Hellfire Club was going after Kitty Pryde. The animated Dark Phoenix Saga followed mostly the comic book version without having Kitty Pryde. Then Madelyn Pryor appeared after "Jean"/Dark Phoenix died, which then led to the Inferno saga with the demons invading and Madelyn becoming the Goblin Queen. It is hard for the moviemakers to not do the Phoenix Force as it is pretty much entwined in pretty much all the comic book plots involving the X-Men.

I saw the new trailer for Civil War. Spider-man appearance was brief. Tony called him Underroos. It looks like it will be pretty good.

Spider-Man looked like he was wearing a child's Halloween costume version of himself. I liked that they eyes changed to show him scowling but other than that, his costume needs an upgrade FAST. Like, worse than Cap's costume from the first Avengers movie. But I knew he had to be on Team Iron Man, since the last head count had his side at only 5 and Cap's had 6, so with Spider-Man absent from the lineup, that was the only sensible side for him to choose. But I'm sure he'll be changing his mind like it says he did in the comics.

Kind of wondering what the big airport battle is all about. Seems odd that both sides would show up with full ranks and in full battle gear like that to do anything else but rumble. Did Tony just call out Steve and say he'd call him chicken if he didn't show up at a certain place at a certain time? Even if there's a reason for at least one side to be there, for them to all be present at once, and Cap's entire team arriving in the same fashion, it seems weird it would just turn out that way naturally. Not that I don't want to see that scene, it looks like it could literally be the most epic thing in the entire MCU.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2015 on: March 12, 2016, 01:34:09 AM »
The CW renewed The Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow.

It could be one of those situations, where Cap and his team are there to stop Crossbones from creating more mayhem when Tony and his team show up to stop them. With the potential way for this movie to end, they could do a version of the Demon in the Bottle story where Tony disheartened by what happens hangs up the Iron Man suit.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2016 on: March 12, 2016, 01:50:02 AM »
Didn't they already try adapting Demon In A Bottle as part of IM2's "plot"?

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2017 on: March 12, 2016, 01:52:31 AM »
Damn it, I read on imdb that it was coming out in April! Six more months...sigh...
With Daredevil season 2 coming out next week, April would be a bit too soon and at the start Netflix did say they were planning on releasing a new series every 6 months.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2018 on: March 12, 2016, 01:53:58 AM »
A really bad attempt. Everyone was so out of character. It didn't really work. Tony seemed to be more frat party guy in Iron Man 2. Captain America: Civil War has the potential to set up that kind of scenario if they choose to do it.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2019 on: March 12, 2016, 10:31:54 AM »
A really bad attempt. Everyone was so out of character. It didn't really work. Tony seemed to be more frat party guy in Iron Man 2. Captain America: Civil War has the potential to set up that kind of scenario if they choose to do it.

I wouldn't say it was a bad attempt at portraying his alcoholism, it was just that the overall script was poor. And I thought Iron Man 3 was where they (badly) had him hanging up the armor, and that didn't pan out. But if the trailer is accurately showing
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Rhodey dying
, it may not be the best time for Tony to retire.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2020 on: March 12, 2016, 12:14:29 PM »
The only good thing to come out of Iron Man 2 was the exchange between Stark+Potts and Hammer+journalist lady at the expo.

"She did quite a spread on Tony last year."
"She wrote an article too"

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2021 on: March 12, 2016, 03:51:49 PM »
The only good thing to come out of Iron Man 2 was the exchange between Stark+Potts and Hammer+journalist lady at the expo.

"She did quite a spread on Tony last year."
"She wrote an article too"

Hey now, that final battle between Iron Man/War Machine and the drones/Crimson Dynamo was the best of the Phase 1 movies (excluding the Avengers). Although Iron Man 3 basically negated the whole reason for Tony's suicidal depression, i.e. his arc reactor being vital for his survival and yet simultaneously killing him. Bad continuity with the Iron Man franchise.

There was actually a deleted scene in the first Iron Man where Rhodey crashes into the Iron Monger to help Tony with his car, which I thought would have been cool since that whole final battle was just Tony getting his ass spanked by Stane the entire time and having to be saved by Pepper (which happened again in IM3...this should not be ignored as it directly threatens Tony's masculinity which he seems to hold in extremely high value.) I thought that Rhodey-car scene would have been better used in the first film than the one in the second where Happy drives the car in the wrong direction on the racetrack (by what miraculous force did they not hit one of the other drivers?) and somehow does not critically injure or kill Whiplash who is not wearing any armor and then still manages to give suitcase-armor Iron Man a run for his money.

And has anyone caught up on Agent Carter? Spoiler discussion and I'd like input from others:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
They're using that Darkforce stuff which they first alluded to in Agents of SHIELD and according to wikipedia, it's one of those bullshit things that does whatever the plot calls for it to do. Normally I wouldn't mind since it's so far been relegated to the TV shows and their continuity isn't so important, but now they're saying it's going to make an appearance in Doctor Strange, which worries me. I know it's probably just going to be wielded by one of his enemies (can't imagine which one, since there are so many possibilities at this point) and they're probably not going to explain it any more deeply or go into its source/origin or anything but why can't they just say it's Dark Matter or something instead, which is something that some of the netherworld denizens use and is pretty much from the supernatural realms anyway, which is Strange's domain? Plus they never acknowledged if that was what Odin used to send Thor to Earth during the Avengers, or where he got it from, or if he has more he can use whenever he feels like it. Seems like the kind of thing Loki would want to get his hands on, right? Might play a part in Ragnarok too, for all we know. Anyway...I just think they ought to have set some boundaries before they went too big with this Darkforce macguffin.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2022 on: March 12, 2016, 06:49:46 PM »
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
In the comics there were a bunch of characters who used the DarkForce energies. Cloak of Cloak and Dagger. Darkstar. Silhouette from New Warriors and a few others. So they could be playing it up for use when the Infinity Wars comes around or Secret Defenders show. And, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has yet to explain what happened to the guy who was sucked into the graviton metal. You clearly see he is still alive and trying to get out.

The action scenes in both Iron Man 2 and 3 were pretty good. Some of the plot, not so much. The case could be made that the deterioration of the arc reactor in Tony's chest could have been affecting his mental state causing him to act out of character. But, the way Pepper acted was a bit out of character. She didn't bother to ask what was wrong, and in the next movie, she's now living with Tony.

If Rhodey dies, and Cap, it would make Tony seriously question what is the point, in my opinion. He even stated in one trailer when Cap said Bucky was his friend, Tony replies "So, was I." Its unclear if Robert Downey Jr. is signed on to continue playing Tony in future films.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2023 on: March 13, 2016, 12:00:35 AM »
Personally... the only thing you need to know about Iron Man 2 is that Rhodes becomes the War Machine and Tony and Pepper are now dating. You can practically ignore everything else and not worry about what you missed in the bigger picture of the MCU. Sure Tony got a new Arc reactor that runs on a new element he invented...but that really doesn't matter as it does the same thing as the last one only runs on something different. And he gets a new suit every movie now too so you won't be missing much with the MK VI unveil.

I won't hold it against RDJ if he doesn't come back after Civil War. The man was the first hero we got out of the MCU, its really put his career back on track, and he's done so much with the role. Sure I'll miss his take on Tony Stark and we may never have another actor to nail him on that level but I'll be content.

While Jon Faveru may not be the best director compared to the Joss Wheldon who directed the Avengers. Faveru can hold it over everyone else's head that he directed the first movie that started the Golden Age of Superhero movies and the MCU.  Iron Man was a movie he got right...even if Iron Man 2 sucked.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 12:02:46 AM by CaptainNexus616 »

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #2024 on: March 13, 2016, 12:21:11 AM »
I agree. Jon Faveru did a good job with the first Iron Man movie, second one was okay. Action scenes were pretty good. Since then Marvel has been on a role with a slate of pretty good movies.

I watched the new Civil War trailer again, the Spider-man costume has that sort of iconic, classic look, even the eyes look like the original costume from the first appearance of the character. The only complaint I have is the spider logo on his chest looks like you need a microscope to find, and it looks almost more scarab like.