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Author Topic: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.  (Read 492 times)

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Offline Beguile's MistressTopic starter

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They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« on: October 03, 2014, 02:11:01 PM »
They Were Friends, But She Was In Love. When She Tells The Crowd What He Said, They Go Silent.

I watched the video and one thing struck me almost immediately.  She said she felt like the ugliest of all her friends.  As if all her friends are ugly.  At then end when she discusses one of the other trips she could have taken she says she would have been the prettiest of all the trolls.  What does that say about her view of trolls if she thinks she's ugly?

I just think that's a pretty bad way to look at life and pretty superficial but I don't think she learned that from her experience.

Offline Oniya

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2014, 02:42:31 PM »
I read the transcript, and I was struck by something at the end:

Quote
And then I get to one picture and it's the picture from kids day. And I'm sitting with Bruno, that eight-year-old. And I got paint on my face and I'm cracking up and I'm in the place I feel totally comfortable. And I look radiant and I look beautiful.

Offline Beguile's MistressTopic starter

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2014, 02:53:02 PM »
I know.  To me that was the lesson she should have learned because it was the reason for the trip but I wonder if she did.  If the trip impacted her in such a way that she had to tell her story as she did I think she missed the point. 


Offline consortium11

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 05:37:01 PM »
I'm not sure I can agree here.

I don't think the "ugliest of my friends" line is implying her friends are ugly; it's something another way of saying that she doesn't feel as pretty/sexy/beautiful/attractive as the rest of her friends and, as much as we wish it wasn't so, I imagine that's something we've pretty much all gone through at one stage or another. Especially in today's social media age where one can go on Twitter/Facebook/Instagram etc etc and immediately be confronted with dozens of images of people looking stunning in exotic locations beside their sexy partner next to an expensive car wearing a beautiful dress and eating exquisite food (delete or combine as appropriate) it's not too difficult to imagine how that can fray at one's self confidence.

Likewise I think the "I'd have been the prettiest of all the trolls" line is in essence a throw-away comedy line; she's just been in glamorous Italy where she met a stunning, shirtless, seemingly perfect Frenchman who told her she wasn't attractive enough and had instead decided to sleep with a sexy Spanish girl. It's simply gallows humour to note that if she'd instead gone to Iceland to work as a tour guide around reputed troll (a creature generally regarded as being exceptionally ugly) village she'd have been more attractive than the trolls.

I also think she did get the point... or at least a point. There's a reason she chose to end her story when she did and use that last anecdote as the punchline. Prior to the trip, during the trip and after the trip she'd been judging herself by her take on others and doing it on their "battleground" (for lack of a better term); hence the story about cutting up the shirt and her feeling ugly wearing it. She was busy comparing herself with others, she never felt like she lived up to that standard and was thus uncomfortable. But when she didn't care about others, when she was doing something that made her feel comfortable, when she was what was familiar territory to her, when she wasn't trying to be as sexy or beautiful or attractive as her view of her friends and acquaintances, she realised she was beautiful.

Offline Beguile's MistressTopic starter

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 07:01:37 PM »
Well, there you have it.  You saw it as a comedy skit and she was supposedly presenting it as a real life story about her real feelings.

It was supposed to be something uplifting and I didn't find it funny at all or inspirational.  More like depressing actually.

Offline consortium11

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 07:35:21 PM »
I didn't see it as a comedy skit... I saw it as a story that included some comedy (in this case frequently of the gallows/black variety). Something being uplifting does not preclude it from including elements of humour.

Offline Beguile's MistressTopic starter

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 08:43:41 PM »
What I mean is I didn't see it as funny in any way.  It just seemed sad and depressing and left me feeling sorry for her. 

Offline Valthazar

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 09:48:58 PM »
I agree with Beguile's Mistress.  Usually people who are overly critical about themselves, are feeling that way because they subconsciously compare themselves to others.

Notice how she compares herself to her female friend on the trip, then compares herself to the trolls in Iceland.  The strongest women I have come across don't worry about such matters, and just appreciate each person for who they are.

My dad once told me that becoming mature is when you can applaud someone for a great achievement without feeling an ounce of jealousy or envy.  We can tell she is an excellent teacher, and we should compliment her for this.  We can also tell that Jordina (the other woman) is very physically beautiful, and we should compliment her for this.  This isn't a competition between who is better - rather, just two human beings with unique contributions to mankind.

Offline roulette

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 10:01:14 PM »
... Isn't that the point? I mean, to me, the whole point of the video is like, "Look at me caring so much about the way I look. Look at other people caring about the way I look. See how devastating that was and how discontent that made me. But when I saw myself doing what I love, I was beautiful."

Insecurity is a thing that exists. A lot of people struggle with it. That is the point of this video. She told how she struggled with it, and how she saw something that contradicted her insecurity, something that she appreciated. I guarantee that she still struggles with insecurity, but she was able to share her story anyway and take a step in the right direction.

If you don't share these struggles, then this video probably isn't uplifting to you. You don't need that hope. But the whole point of her video was that her concept and need for physical beauty was superficial and when she said at the end that she was radiant and beautiful, she didn't mean "This was a good picture of me!" She meant that her happiness and comfort shined through and that was where she felt fulfilled, and she realized that she didn't need to make comparisons to other people who were not her.

Like, that was the whole point.

edit: I suck at diplomacy and this probably sounds condescending and I could take the time to edit it out but I struggle with that so I just want to apologize from the get-go if this message offends anyone. I don't mean it in any malicious or judgy way.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 10:02:26 PM by roulette »

Offline consortium11

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 10:17:36 PM »
... Isn't that the point? I mean, to me, the whole point of the video is like, "Look at me caring so much about the way I look. Look at other people caring about the way I look. See how devastating that was and how discontent that made me. But when I saw myself doing what I love, I was beautiful."

That's my understanding of it as well. The story is basically just the set-up for that final punchline about how doing what you love and not caring how you rank in some beauty scale (or being judged on such a scale) makes you beautiful.

She was unhappy with how she looked and how her life was going and so wanted to go abroad and have one of those "great romances" that are a staple of modern romantic literature.

She was unhappy because while in Italy she seemingly found her dream man only for him to turn her down for someone he considered more physically attractive.

She was so upset by that, by not seemingly being attractive enough, that she contemplated going under the knife.

She then received a pack of photographs and once she saw one of her in her element, not caring about how she looked or how others looked, she realised she was beautiful.

Now, that may not be uplifting for everyone... we all have our own views and feelings on such matters... but the "I didn't think I was good enough, life kicked some form of dirt into my face and then I realised something about myself and I felt good again" format is a staple of uplifting stories.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 10:25:49 PM »
I understand your perspectives.

It's wonderful that by the end of the story, she realizes that her strength as a human being is in being able to relate with children, and that she prides herself on being a teacher.  In that sense, she has succeeded, because she has found a sense of comfort and solace for herself, and feels comfortable with her place as a human being.

However, she defines this realization in the context of her "looking beautiful" in a picture with the kid.  In other words, she's equating her fulfillment and strength as a human being again with her physical appearance.  This conclusion is reached after listing several negative remarks regarding her physical appearance (the plastic surgeon, the French guy, etc). 

My point is that it is okay for someone to be comfortable and happy in admitting that they are an average looking person physically.  I mean, let me be honest, I'm an average looking guy, and many of us are probably average looking people  :-)  But I know I have many strengths as a writer, as a friend, as a hard working person, as a respectful person, and so on.  I know that Micaela Blei (the speaker) is an equally wonderful person who is clearly passionate about her students and giving a great contribution as a person to this world.  But it concerns me that she is still defaulting to "beauty" in the traditional physical sense.  This says a lot about how she continues to view people.

I think this is why I see it as a bit of a sad story.  She's made a bit of progress in developing her self-esteem, but in a manner that still heralds physical beauty as the optimum.

For a lot of things in my life, acceptance of who I am has given me peace of mind.  I think it's almost cathartic to be able to say to someone else - "she/he is a very beautiful woman/man," and not feel that physical beauty is something we must measure up to as well.  After all, all of us have strengths, but not all of us necessarily look like supermodels.

Offline Oniya

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 10:36:22 PM »
For a lot of things in my life, acceptance of who I am has given me peace of mind.  I think it's almost cathartic to be able to say to someone else - "she/he is a very beautiful woman/man," and not feel that physical beauty is something we must measure up to as well.  After all, all of us have strengths, but not all of us necessarily look like supermodels.

Even supermodels don't look like supermodels.  Body by Adobe, ya know?

Offline roulette

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 10:40:44 PM »
Well... yeah. I don't really think anybody's self-esteem issues were ever solved in a day.

And the story wouldn't have the same poetic imagery if she didn't use the word "beautiful". But if you listen to her description, she is describing that she had paint on her face, she was happy and smiling, and she was "radiant". She didn't say that suddenly, her nose looked better, or her chin worked.

The words she used do not specifically refer to physical attributes, and she could just as easily (as I believe she is) be speaking of expression, of the happiness of being where she belonged.

Offline AndyZ

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2014, 08:59:41 PM »
Totally off-topic, and I'll remove it if desired, but thought it might help to know.

As someone who stares at women's (and men's) lips a lot, it can just be that the starer is having a little trouble hearing and using some lip-reading to augment what's being said.  If there's some language barrier, that can double how much it's happening, because it's a little more difficult to make out the words to translate them in my brain.

Offline Beguile's MistressTopic starter

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2014, 09:05:05 PM »
Please don't remove your post, but I'm not sure what you are referring to.  Could you elaborate? 

Offline Oniya

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2014, 09:32:55 PM »
This bit here?

Quote
And finally the last night we're sitting and we're talking and he's looking at my mouth and no guy has ever looked at my mouth before. But my friends have told me that when a guy... this is information for all of you if you want it... when a guy looks at your mouth, it means he wants to kiss you.

Offline AndyZ

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »
Sorry, thought for sure I'd Notified this thread.

Oniya has it exactly right.

Might be a dumb thing to add, but I've had some awesome folks correct me on various such "information," and I just felt like I'd be a bad person not to share.

Offline Oniya

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2014, 09:48:18 PM »
*nods* There's a huge number of different reasons that someone might look at another person's mouth other than 'he wants to kiss you'.  Trouble hearing, trouble with eye-contact in general - not to mention that little piece of spinach from the Eggs Florentine that's stuck between your front teeth.   :D

Offline Beguile's MistressTopic starter

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Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2014, 10:07:48 PM »
I think in this case it's merely anecdotal information as to why a man would watch a woman's mouth.  It's just one of those "dating" or "relationship" things people talk about.  But it is worth mentioning.

Offline AndyZ

Re: They Were Friends, But She Was In Love.
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2014, 08:27:43 AM »
Semi-amusing story regarding this: there's a saying about the color red quickly drawing the eyes, sort of an innate understanding of fire or something.  I was watching a movie yesterday where this woman put on this really bright red lipstick, and I kept glancing down to her mouth as a result.

I guess it's just, a lot of people on here have been awesome at helping me bust myths that I've been told, and I'd hate not to pay that forward.