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Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 172745 times)

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Offline KalebHyde

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #850 on: May 09, 2015, 10:03:53 AM »
The sacrifices made by the Russian people should never be forgotten, without the dual fronts WW2 might well have been lost.  That said, the 40 odd years of murderous oppression which followed cannot be forgotten either.  I cannot blame Europeans who are distrustful of a man who seems to wish for the return of those days behind the wall though it is always a shame when the memorializing of others suffers for it.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #851 on: May 09, 2015, 11:38:46 AM »
What day do you celebrate the massacre of 7 million Ukrainians between 1932-33? Genocide of 2 million Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Tajiks, Bashkirs and Kazaks? The rape of 2 million ethnic german girls and women post-World War 2? People forget that a lot of the Scandinavian countries sided with the Nazis because after the Winter War they were flooded with Finnish refugees recounting the horror stories of what happened to them at the hands of the Soviets. The lesser of two evils, as it were. Doesn't mean that they were right to pick any of the evils, but at the time the Brits were pretty much retreating, the Americans weren't involved yet.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 11:49:21 AM by Deamonbane »

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #852 on: May 09, 2015, 11:45:06 AM »
The same day the United States and all of it's allies will do the same for the millions of casualties in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and fuck knows where else.

You sir, are a ... not really worth getting banned for...

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #853 on: May 09, 2015, 11:48:05 AM »
You are right Dashenka, that was a dickish comment and completely off topic. I apologize.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 11:49:11 AM by Deamonbane »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #854 on: May 09, 2015, 12:25:11 PM »
What day do you celebrate the massacre of 7 million Ukrainians between 1932-33? Genocide of 2 million Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Tajiks, Bashkirs and Kazaks? The rape of 2 million ethnic german girls and women post-World War 2? People forget that a lot of the Scandinavian countries sided with the Nazis because after the Winter War they were flooded with Finnish refugees recounting the horror stories of what happened to them at the hands of the Soviets. The lesser of two evils, as it were. Doesn't mean that they were right to pick any of the evils, but at the time the Brits were pretty much retreating, the Americans weren't involved yet.

This is not about defending Stalin or being sanctimonious about what happens in war. A woman who was my sometime nanny when I grew up had actually fled with her parents, as a little girl, when Russia occupied Karelia in the winter war and pushed the border between Finland and (Soviet) Russia to where it is now. So she and her family became part of that flow of refugees who were resettled in Finland (and in later years she moved to Sweden).

I don't know what you're talking about, saying that the rest of the Nordic countries sided with the Nazis after the winter war. Denmark and Norway were seized by Germany in the spring of 1940, less than a month after the winter war had ended, the invasion had been planned well before the peace between Finland and the Soviet union which was not expected (it surprised most people around Europe when it happened). Germany was about a hundred times stronger than those two countries and it was a little before things started to move on the western front, so Denmark and Norway really didn't stand a chance (despite heroic resistance efforts in Norway throughout the war).

 Finland eventually went to war again with the Soviets right after Hitler had invaded in the east, and were defeated once more as the Russians repelled the threat to their nation. The Finnish were never really aligned with the Nazi ideas, they never allowed German troops to join them on their own front and avoided becoming a slave ally of Hitler; eventually they managed to extricate themselves from the war in late '44. Sweden stayed out of openly joining the war by some balancing, some tiptoe-dancing and eventually some valuable passive or under-the-table aid to the western allies and to the resistance in her Nordic sister countries and to refugees from central Europe. The support for Nazi ideas in Sweden was minimal.

No country in Scandinavia would have stood any kind of chance if it had defied Hitler on their own, and realistically helping Norway, Denmark, Finland or Sweden on the ground would not have been a high priority of the western allies at any time in those years. We had to take on a tricky, sometimes unpredictable situation on our own terms and with our own men and women.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 12:31:24 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #855 on: May 09, 2015, 12:33:31 PM »
I should have worded that better. I didn't mean to say that the countries themselves sided with Germany, but many of their citizens did and indeed fought for the Germans (Notable examples include the SS Nordland, and SS Wiking).

As for my comment before, it was a hateful comment that veered from the point, and I apologize for it.

Offline Dimir

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #856 on: May 09, 2015, 12:41:30 PM »
*Provides free hugs and additional points to this discussion*

Many historians agree that Russia winning the Battle of Stalingrad was the key turning point in the Second World War, and without the efforts of the Russian army, the war would have lasted far longer and more people, including those victimized by the Holocaust would have died.

Russia has the right to honour their military's contributions to the Second World War and should be treated separately from any arguments regarding the Cold War.

Stalin and Hitler were both genocidal, authoritarian tyrants whom murdered even numerous members of their own civilian population. The US is not perfect in this regard either due to the murder of natives when the US was colonized, subjecting the people of Vietnam to Agent Orange, the mercenary squad known as Blackwater killing numerous Iraqi civilians or the CEO of International Business Machines (IBM), Thomas J. Watson making a major profit off selling technology to Nazi Germany which was used to further The Holocaust.

Online Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #857 on: May 09, 2015, 12:42:49 PM »
War sucks.

Let's move off this particular news.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #858 on: May 09, 2015, 12:57:30 PM »
I should have worded that better. I didn't mean to say that the countries themselves sided with Germany, but many of their citizens did and indeed fought for the Germans (Notable examples include the SS Nordland, and SS Wiking).

As for my comment before, it was a hateful comment that veered from the point, and I apologize for it.

Okay, I see - yep, the Nordic guys who joined SS divisions as volunteers fighting on the eastern front is a shoddy part of the story (and a bit under-researched), though there were not very many of them if you compare with the number of young men in these countries. But yeah, many of those volunteers really were hardcore Nazi sympathizers (a few of them likely just wanted to fight for the excitement of it...)

*Louise extends a hand to Deamon and then lays a little wreath of spring flowers before the grave of the unknown (Soviet) Russian soldier*
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 01:00:56 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #859 on: May 09, 2015, 01:36:19 PM »
You're probably right.

*shakes Louise's hand and places a similar wreath*

Offline Dimir

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #860 on: May 09, 2015, 04:21:29 PM »
Residents of Suburban Dallas, Texas, scientists and policy makers continue to debate whether the process of fracking is the cause of a recent swarm of earthquakes in the area.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/09/us/texas-earthquakes-fracking-studies/index.html

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #861 on: May 09, 2015, 05:14:33 PM »
Residents of Suburban Dallas, Texas, scientists and policy makers continue to debate whether the process of fracking is the cause of a recent swarm of earthquakes in the area.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/09/us/texas-earthquakes-fracking-studies/index.html

They obviously don't remember 'A View to a Kill'. 

http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/ccManager/clips/bond-villain-christopher-walken-reveals-his-plan/view

[EDIT:  Dang - wrong clip.  The basic plan is to flood a mineshaft that attaches onto the San Andreas Fault, thereby reducing the friction holding the two chunks of crust together.  Presto, earthquake.  Hmm.  Injecting water into the ground... There's a familiar concept.)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 05:21:24 PM by Oniya »

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #862 on: May 10, 2015, 07:14:07 AM »
I have two things since the conversation rapidly switched topics.

1. I believe it is a testament to human endurance and strength that russia was able to push back the nazis, all the more so because they did it despite the crippling influence of Stalin and the politburo who were often more concerned with punishing "traitors" and "cowards." than things of strategic merit. Likewise we can't forget the tons of goods and supplies sent by the western allies under the lend lease program. The beans filling russian bellies on the eastern front were grown in Canada, the trucks that transported russian troops were made in America, and the fuel that ran the tanks after the nazis cut russia off from it's oil fields came from british colonies. Though everyone tried to pretend that stuff didn't happen when the cold war started >-< "oh golly we never helped no Commie Pinkos" "Accept help from Capitalist Pigs? never happened..."

2. Oh gee... are the giant drills used to remove massive amounts of resources rapidly causing earthquakes? actually no... the disposal of the tons of water used to lubricate them is able to "lubricate" other things too, like cracks in a fault line.

Offline lovelylilT

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #863 on: May 10, 2015, 08:56:47 AM »
Today is Victory Day in Russia.

Lots of celebrations and a massive military parade on the Red Square, commemorating the millions of Soviet soldiers who died to free Europe.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32668511

The Victory Day celebrations were wonderful, I was proud for being there. :-)

And that's all I'm saying, I don't want getting in trouble other wise.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #864 on: May 10, 2015, 11:49:21 AM »
2. Oh gee... are the giant drills used to remove massive amounts of resources rapidly causing earthquakes? actually no... the disposal of the tons of water used to lubricate them is able to "lubricate" other things too, like cracks in a fault line.

That was exactly the premise of Zorin's plan in the Bond movie.

Offline Warlock

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #865 on: May 10, 2015, 01:34:25 PM »
Real-life is now a Bond movie. Wonderful. Should get one of Q's Astro Martins. xD

In Sweden, we're currently having a debate featuring the leaders of the different political parties.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #866 on: May 10, 2015, 02:55:24 PM »
Genuinely surprising results (if exit polls are to be believed, at least) of the first round of presidential elections in Poland!

The winner is Andrzej Duda from the biggest opposition party, Law and Justice. The close second is the current president, Bronisław Komorowski... and it's a *humiliating* result for him, as - when the campaign was starting - he had such a high support that it seemed possible for him to win the elections in the first round (by getting >50% of votes). Now, it seems that he won 2% of votes less than Duda and it's very uncertain if he manages to get himself re-elected in the second round... If you ask me, he's reaping the results of his abysmally poor campaign and his arrogant attitude - when I listened to him and his supporters, it seemed that they genuinely believed that Komorowski doesn't have to do anything and that every sane person would vote for him anyway.

The biggest surprise in the elections? The amazing result (20%) of Paweł Kukiz, a rock musician with no party support and a political platform of "Fight the system". Considering that he had to fight the uphill battle of having no money, no organisation supporting him and of some mainstream media out to make him look like a loon, this results is stunning. I'd say it really shows how many Polish people are fed up with the current political scene.

Oh, and the beautiful Dr Ogórek? She got 2%. Extremely bad news for the Democratic Left Alliance that supported her... and, especially, for that party's chief who personally forced the party to go with such an exotic candidate.

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #867 on: May 10, 2015, 07:25:15 PM »
Oh, and the beautiful Dr Ogórek? She got 2%. Extremely bad news for the Democratic Left Alliance that supported her... and, especially, for that party's chief who personally forced the party to go with such an exotic candidate.

She's just biding her time and taking the opportunity to establish Cthulhu cults across the land. The Great Old Ones are eternal. They can afford to wait an election cycle.

Offline Kythia

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #868 on: May 11, 2015, 12:12:49 AM »
I'm so glad that's a thing now.

Offline Mikem

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #869 on: May 11, 2015, 04:17:23 AM »
Aww, there was a discussion about the second world war and I missed it?  :-(

Quote
Lots of celebrations and a massive military parade on the Red Square

Kinda wish the U.S. had a military parade for once near me. I'd love to see some Armor.

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #870 on: May 11, 2015, 05:47:39 AM »
Aww, there was a discussion about the second world war and I missed it?  :-(

Kinda wish the U.S. had a military parade for once near me. I'd love to see some Armor.

It wasn't a discussion. Just some people being ungrateful to be free from the Nazi's.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #871 on: May 11, 2015, 06:04:20 AM »
It wasn't a discussion. Just some people being ungrateful to be free from the Nazi's.

  That's not how logic works. If someone saves you from being tortured and then only mistreats you, you do not owe them any gratitude simply because that isn't as bad as being tortured.

  Especially since the Soviets were acting out of self interest. Stalin was perfectly happy to split Poland with Hitler. They defeated the Nazis because the Nazis invaded Russia, and they then imposed their rule on Eastern Europe, exploiting those countries for the benefit of Russia, and when those countries rose up against the Soviets like in Czechoslovakia and Hungary, they were crushed brutally (and yes I am aware that some of the darker parts of the 56 revolution are downplayed in the historical narrative, like the anti-Semitic aspects of the Hungarian resistance, but that doesn't change the principle of the revolt).

  Expecting people everyone to be able to completely separate the Soviet defeat of the Nazis with what they did to the continues they liberated from them is ludicrous.

  Edited message to be less absolute.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 06:35:05 AM by LisztesFerenc »

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #872 on: May 11, 2015, 06:16:07 AM »
Enough. 

Offline Dimir

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #873 on: May 11, 2015, 06:26:43 AM »
In other news, a teenage scientist here in Canada named Olivier Cloutier found cancer-killing molecules in chia seeds.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/teen-scientist-olivier-cloutier-finds-cancer-killing-molecules-in-chia-seeds-1.3068605

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #874 on: May 11, 2015, 07:24:49 AM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-11/kerry-to-meet-putin-in-russia-for-the-first-time-in-two-years

Kerry meeting Putin AND Lavrov.

That should be interesting. Guess Obama was too busy himself or couldn't care less :)