What's in the news?

[RedRose]

Kinda cute lol. Frenchies are discovering the word bromance http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/donald-trump-enjoys-paris-bromance-with-great-emmanuel-macron-35932704.html

[Missy]

http://www.businessinsider.com/senators-popular-unpopular-approval-rating-2017-7/

[Shekinah]

For the first time in it's history, the next doctor Who will be an woman

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-40624288

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-_bSdWEYK8

[Sara Nilsson]

For the first time in it's history, the next doctor Who will be an woman

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-40624288

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-_bSdWEYK8

so much butthurt in the comments. I could mine enough salt to make the atlantic seem like the dead sea.

[Shekinah]

so much butthurt in the comments. I could mine enough salt to make the atlantic seem like the dead sea.

Yeah but they were the same when Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi were cast and after a while they all were: ooh he's awesome as the Doctor so yeah, trolls will be trolls

[Lustful Bride]

Teen charged with Acid Attacks in London.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/teen-charged-in-london-acid-attacks-as-uk-plans-crackdown/ar-BBEv7Hd?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

[Vergil Tanner]

I think that people need to be careful with the new Doctor Who announcement. I see a lot of people criticising the people who don't like the casting choice with the old stock phrase of "Sexist!" and "Misogynist!" and "butthurt manbabies!" I'm sorry, but even if you don't agree with them, that is no way to engage in an actual conversation and figure out WHY they might dislike it. Personally speaking, as a Doctor Who Fan of about twenty years, I have to say that I'm dubious about the casting. And no, it isn't "But da womenz are icky!"

- For one, you're casting a character who has been male for 54 years and is a British Icon in an entirely new way; it's jarring, it's dangerous and it instinctively feels wrong to a Purist Whovian the same way that turning James Bond into a woman would be; it's nothing sexist, it's about changing a way an icon has been written for over 50 years. "Male" is one of the very few consistent parts of Doctor Who, after all. It isn't blatantly, obviously stupid as making James Bond a woman, true, but it's in a similar vein for a lot of people.

- Second, I'm not convinced that she's the right choice. The other "Favourite," that Kris guy, I wasn't sold on either just because I'm not sure that she has what it takes. The Doctor is pretty damn demanding at the best of times, and if you're gonna be the first Female Doctor, you need to hit the ground fucking running. You need to knock it out of the park, so there's the worry that she's gonna stumble and be kinda crap, or that the showrunner this time round is gonna end up fumbling as he settles into his new job. Michelle Gomez did an AMAZING job as Missy, but that angle could easily have gone very, very wrong. So there's that worry as well; it's a whole lot of uncertainty. New Companion, new showrunner, new doctor AND a change as big as a whole new gender? That's ballsy, and considering the shakiness of the last couple of seasons...

- Third, with how the last season has been, people are understandably worried about the Doctor being a woman being crammed down our throats in every episode. Take Bill; she started off excellently. She started off as a complex, nuanced character who had a unique relationship with the Doctor and she fit into the Nardal / Doctor / Bill triangle very nicely. Buuuuut around a third-ish of the way in, she started to deteriorate with her being gay being hammered on so much that even I had to start rolling my eyes with a "Yes, can we skip the part where she explains that she's gay to the Roman Soldiers and give the Villain Of The Week a little more screentime, please? Ta!" It felt like it was every damn episode, and it went from "she's a character who happens to be gay" to "She mentions that she's gay to everybody as if that's what her defining character trait is," which is stupid. So people - including me - are worried that the Doctor will just start hammering "I'M A CHICK NOW AIN'T IT CRAZY" over and over again. And given the last season...I think that's a justifiable concern.

I, personally, am holding judgement until I see the series as I think a lot of real fans who happen to be skeptical are. I WANT her to be good because I want DOCTOR WHO to be good, but I have to admit that I'm dubious over whether she's up to the monumental challenge, and whether the writers can actually do it in a effective, skilled way. I'm also worried that - with the state of the BBC recently - this is a case of "Doing it for the Progressive" rather than "Doing it for the show." That is, casting a woman to cast a woman, rather than casting her because she's the right actress. I hope it's the latter, but the possibility of the former has to at least be acknowledged.

I just hate that people seem to be dismissing the valid concerns and worries that people have over this because obviously everybody who isn't jumping for joy at this development is a horrible butthurt sexist who just wants to keep women in the kitchen. >.> Such over simplifications and strawmen stops people from having an actual discussion from opposite sides of the fence, and it's something I see the Right AND the Left doing increasingly often recently...it speaks to a wider issue we have where both "Sides" are reaching for the dismissive insults and ignoring the chance for a reasonable discourse.





RE: Acid Attacks.

I saw that. Disgusting. And because he's a Minor, he won't do jail time most likely. I hope he does, but I doubt it. >.>

[Lustful Bride]

RE: Acid Attacks.

I saw that. Disgusting. And because he's a Minor, he won't do jail time most likely. I hope he does, but I doubt it. >.>

He absolutely should! This is assault with a deadly weapon! Or...do they classify acid as a deadly weapon? If not then they honestly should.

[Vergil Tanner]

I have absolutely no idea. xD I don't know what they're gonna do about it, but for as awesome as I think English Bobby's are, the English legal system itself leaves a lot to be desired. I mean, it's better than living in Saudi Arabia or even Germany, but still. xD

[WindFish]

I think that people need to be careful with the new Doctor Who announcement. I see a lot of people criticising the people who don't like the casting choice with the old stock phrase of "Sexist!" and "Misogynist!" and "butthurt manbabies!" I'm sorry, but even if you don't agree with them, that is no way to engage in an actual conversation and figure out WHY they might dislike it. Personally speaking, as a Doctor Who Fan of about twenty years, I have to say that I'm dubious about the casting. And no, it isn't "But da womenz are icky!"

And on the other side, you have men and conservatives who are bashing the new Doctor casting as "political correctness" and bashing anyone who supports the casting as, you guessed it, "social justice warriors" and "cucks". They're already hurling abuse at the new actress, showrunner, and the BBC. I even noticed a death threat in one of the comments, in the Daily Mail of course. That is no way to engage either. They legitimately want the show to fail and won't even give the new Doctor a chance before repeating that a female Doctor will kill the show. The vitriol from this side has been quite frankly disgusting.

The people whining about political correctness while at the same time demand that the Doctor should always be played by a white male are using their own form of political correctness, and are hypocrites for doing so.

Doctor Who is fundamentally a show about change. I was very skeptical about Matt Smith because of his age, but I gave him a chance and ended up really liking his take on Eleven. I would have had a considerable difficulty warming up to the boring one-note Kris Marshall, but I'd at least watch his first episode. When people say they won't watch the show, they are being hypocrites with their own political correctness.

I think the new showrunner will do a better job with female and LGBT characters than Moffat if Broadchurch is any indication.

[Lustful Bride]

And on the other side, you have men and conservatives who are bashing the new Doctor casting as "political correctness" and bashing anyone who supports the casting as, you guessed it, "social justice warriors" and "cucks". They're already hurling abuse at the new actress, showrunner, and the BBC. I even noticed a death threat in one of the comments, in the Daily Mail of course. That is no way to engage either. They legitimately want the show to fail and won't even give the new Doctor a chance before repeating that a female Doctor will kill the show. The vitriol from this side has been quite frankly disgusting.

The people whining about political correctness while at the same time demand that the Doctor should always be played by a white male are using their own form of political correctness, and are hypocrites for doing so.

Doctor Who is fundamentally a show about change. I was very skeptical about Matt Smith because of his age, but I gave him a chance and ended up really liking his take on Eleven. I would have had a considerable difficulty warming up to the boring one-note Kris Marshall, but I'd at least watch his first episode. When people say they won't watch the show, they are being hypocrites with their own political correctness.

I think the new showrunner will do a better job with female and LGBT characters than Moffat if Broadchurch is any indication.

Both sides are bad in my opinion. The ones calling everyone SJWs and Cucks are just as bad as those calling others misogynists and Alt-righters. They shut down anyone with a different opinion and only help create this age of One side or the Other, refusing to accept a middle ground and only fostering extremism. I personally haven't seen dr who in a while now. I feel like I outgrew the series. So as somewhat of an outsider now everyone looks like a bunch of crazy hateful children :/

[Oniya]

Doctor Who is fundamentally a show about change. I was very skeptical about Matt Smith because of his age, but I gave him a chance and ended up really liking his take on Eleven.

One of the best memes I've ever seen about explaining being transgender involved Dr. Who. 

I'll admit that I sulked through Logopolis and Castrovalva, but I ended up really liking Peter.

[Missy]

Who has been building up to this since the house episode actually . . . that's the first reference I know of to TL's regeneration including the possibility of a gender change.

[LisztesFerenc]

Both sides are bad in my opinion. The ones calling everyone SJWs and Cucks are just as bad as those calling others misogynists and Alt-righters.

  What else would you call people who are complaining about an actress being a woman?

[Lustful Bride]

  What else would you call people who are complaining about an actress being a woman?

To the ones actually doing it yes, but this could also be a Ghostbusters 2016 situation where some people (possibly male and female) have some legitimate complaints and are being lumped in with the extremists and having their voices and opinions ignored. If someone is being a sexist or a bigot I'm all for calling them out, but only if they actually did something wrong. And with how things are as of late, people act as if, if you aren't 100% in favor of everything they say, then automatically you belong to the opposite side and are the worst thing. :/

[LisztesFerenc]

To the ones actually doing it yes, but this could also be a Ghostbusters 2016 situation where some people (possibly male and female) have some legitimate complaints and are being lumped in with the extremists and having their voices and opinions ignored. If someone is being a sexist or a bigot I'm all for calling them out, but only if they actually did something wrong. And with how things are as of late, people act as if, if you aren't 100% in favor of everything they say, then automatically you belong to the opposite side and are the worst thing. :/

  How can they have legitimate complaints? The season isn't made yet. All we know is that when it is, it will be a woman playing the Doctor.

[Lustful Bride]

  How can they have legitimate complaints? The season isn't made yet. All we know is that when it is, it will be a woman playing the Doctor.

I don't know because I haven't seen Doctor Who in years :/ people always find reasons to complain. I'm just saying lets not toss the baby out with the bath water. I think. I don't know i'm never good at in-depth discussions, but I always but my head into things I don't know and try to be smarter than I actually am.

[LisztesFerenc]

I don't know because I haven't seen Doctor Who in years :/ people always find reasons to complain. I'm just saying lets not toss the baby out with the bath water. I think. I don't know i'm never good at in-depth discussions, but I always but my head into things I don't know and try to be smarter than I actually am.

  No one has seen this new season. There is no reason to criticize it yet, unless you object to a woman playing the Doctor. There is no baby at this stage, just bath water.

[Lustful Bride]

  No one has seen this new season. There is no reason to criticize it yet, unless you object to a woman playing the Doctor. There is no baby at this stage, just bath water.

Meh, fair enough I suppose.

[Vergil Tanner]

  How can they have legitimate complaints? The season isn't made yet. All we know is that when it is, it will be a woman playing the Doctor.

This kind of thinking only contributes to the problem. "You can't possibly have legitimate complaints" just means that you're not willing to listen to them. I myself listed some - I think - valid concerns and worries in my initial post. Yeah, you can't have complaints necessarily, but you can have worries and concerns. See this post for mine.

Also:

  What else would you call people who are complaining about an actress being a woman?

This kind of thinking, too, is - in my opinion - narrow minded and stupid. "You're complaining about the actress being a woman? YOU MUST BE SEXIST." Um. No. There are reasons other than sexism why people might not be happy with the casting. It isn't sexist to say that you think that a character shouldn't be switched genders. You might disagree with them and that's fine, but writing them off as sexist before you've even heard their reasoning is narrow minded and silly, and only contributes negatively to the dialogue. It also gives people "credibility" when they accuse the left of writing off their opinions without even listening to them.
With Doctor Who, I'm willing to give it a chance, but I'm also realistic about how difficult it's gonna be to make people happy with such a big change.

But let's take another example; there's been talk recently of making the next James Bond a woman. I'm against that because I don't think it fits the character; not only is James Bond actually based on another famous fictional character, but the point of the character is that he's what is generally considered the "Stereotype" of a suave, womanising, manly man. The point is that he's kind of an asshole, but people love him anyway because he's charismatic about it. The point is that he's both playing straight and deconstructing the whole "Girls love bad boys" and the womanising aspects of "Real" manliness. And I don't think that would work if you made him a she. If you want to do a man-eating female spy who uses her looks and charm to get by and plays straight and deconstructs the tropes on being a "Real Woman" then go ahead...just make it its own IP and leave James Bond alone.

Now, is that opinion sexist? I don't think so. It's an opinion based on the character and the history of the movies. For a lot of people, it's the same way with Doctor Who; they think that the role itself is a male role and that it wouldn't work with a female. Not because of a sexist mindset, but from the perspective of characterisation. OR, they have worries like I outlined on how they're gonna do it and the motivation behind the choice. So I think you're being kind of judgemental and narrow minded in your assertion that just because they don't like the choice being female. Some people definitely feel that way, and I'm not denying that. But you are instantly shutting down the conversation by painting them all with the same broad brush and I think that is - to put it bluntly - stupid. I don't think you're stupid, but I think that labeling everybody who disagrees with you as a "Bad Thing" just removes the possibility for a conversation about it and makes you look like the asshole in this situation. You're excited about the choice. Awesome. But don't insult the people who are dubious or dislike it until you've actually heard their reasoning. It isn't fair, and it doesn't reflect well on you. :-/ Going back to the Ghostbusters example, that was actually one of the reasons it flopped so hard; the cast and crew publicly denounced everybody who disliked the trailer and the film as sexist, and there was a huge backlash against it. So maybe...try not to repeat the same mistakes, because the more you do, the more ammunition the Far Right has to use against you. *shrug*

The people whining about political correctness while at the same time demand that the Doctor should always be played by a white male are using their own form of political correctness, and are hypocrites for doing so.

I disagree with this. They're not being hypocrites at all; explain to me, please, how thinking a character should remain a certain way and that changing it in a certain way is a bad idea is "Political Correctness?" Because I don't think it is. What a lot of people are saying is that they think that the Doctor should be a Male role, and they are worried that the motivation behind the change is political correctness rather than her being right for the role. To coin a phrase, I don't think it's hypocrisy; you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Silk]

I'm one of those in the camp of I'm not sure if I'm happy with the idea of a female doctor, not because I take issue with the idea of a female doctor, but because of all the ramifications and previous trends around gender swapping a character.

My first major concern is why, if they feel they can make a stronger story, a better character and generally improve the narrative with the change, then sure awesome go ahead, if they're doing it to please the "we want a woman doctor crowd" some other agenda or a just because. Then I'm not cool with that. Like Vergil said its like the Ghost busters, there was no narrative reason for them to change the cast to female besides to push a political narrative. Which resulted in the show being a lot shallower weaker and generally poor overall because of it. The problem there lies in until we actually see what they do with the character will soon find out which of the two camps it'll fall into.

The second concern is more broad. There is a depressing trend in these sorts of characters that the change very quickly becomes a primary personality trait. The reason characters like Ellen Ripley are such strong characters is BECAUSE they're characters first female second. With the new Ghostbusters, being random archetypal female was they're character. "Ok we had a nerd, lets have a *gasp* female nerd, a nerd that is now female and overemphasis the fact shes a woman" Which if track record had many other examples of the opposite of "stereotype mk: tits" I wouldn't be too fussed. It's the same with the gay character seems to be a bit of a soft spoken shoulder to cry on who will watch chick flicks with you, or a flamboyant raging queen stereotypes and it's not necessarily intended as a parody. Not that it happens in all cases of course, but it happens enough that I'm concerned about it.

My personality isn't my gender, some experiences may be tailored around it maybe. but my life actions and feelings are not overridden by the fact that I happen to have a vagina, I am my own person, and I happen to be a female, and nothing pisses me off more than female being a personality trait. And I truly hope the doctor doesn't fall into that like many other gender swaps and just female characters before.

[Vergil Tanner]

Exactly. That's one of my big concerns; will they make the Doctor being female her primary character trait, like Bill being gay became the only thing she talked about in the second half of the series? If so, I'm gonna get sick of it pretty quickly because I want to see the Doctor be The Doctor, not The Doctor going "I'm a girl, how crazy is that?!" every ten seconds. There's also the other concern I have in that I worry that now that the Doctor has been made into a female, every Doctor after this one will be a female just because they want a female. In theory, making the Doctor a female means you basically can choose any actor or actress you think would do a good job in the future which is a good thing...but in practice, when has the BBC ever been that intelligent? So I'm worried that either the Doctor being female will be used as a gimmick and not really done in a good way, or this is the new norm and we'll never see a male Doctor again regardless of whether there are actors who would do a better job than whoever they pick. Basically, I'm worried that the BBC will fuck it up somehow, which given their history isn't an unfair thing to worry about. >.>

[LisztesFerenc]

This kind of thinking only contributes to the problem. "You can't possibly have legitimate complaints" just means that you're not willing to listen to them.

  No, as you yourself acknowledge you don't complaints at this stage, just concerns. And concerns, unlikes complaints, are not reasons to stop or not do something. Maybe a female doctor will turn out to be a mistake, I am no way arguing it can only be good, but I am arguing that we should see how it turns out. Being skeptical is fine, being opposed to it, which many people are, is what I am objecting to.

  "I hope they don't fuck this up" isn't sexist, but it isn't a complaint either.

  "This is terrible, they've ruined Doctor Who" is a complaint, and is sexist.

[Vergil Tanner]

No, I think that's entirely too simplistic. "They've ruined Doctor Who" isn't inherently sexist. It can be an opinion based entirely on non-sexist ideas, and I think you reducing it to those levels is silly. Some people will take my concerns and say "I agree, I think they've quite possibly ruined the next couple of seasons." Now, they can be wrong, but labeling the opinion as sexist regardless of the rationale behind it is narrow minded and overly dismissive.

[LisztesFerenc]

No, I think that's entirely too simplistic. "They've ruined Doctor Who" isn't inherently sexist. It can be an opinion based entirely on non-sexist ideas, and I think you reducing it to those levels is silly. Some people will take my concerns and say "I agree, I think they've quite possibly ruined the next couple of seasons." Now, they can be wrong, but labeling the opinion as sexist regardless of the rationale behind it is narrow minded and overly dismissive.

  No, "They've ruined Doctor Who by having him played by a woman" is sexist, unless you follow it up with why being male is important, like you did for James Bond, an argument I notice a distinct lack of from the whiners about Doctor Who.