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Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 173786 times)

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Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3850 on: August 06, 2016, 10:53:13 AM »
What gives anyone the right to tell Rohini Sethi that believing each life, no matter who it belongs to, is as meaningful and important as any other life is wrong?  If they chose to see her remark as diminishing black lives they need to look again.

  Generally people who oppose the ALM slogan do so for the same reason they believe countering "what about men?" to a feminist argument about the draw backs women face demonstrates a desire to stop having the argument and maintain the status quo, rather than a genuine desire to raise an issue.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3851 on: August 06, 2016, 11:04:40 AM »
In other words, because they lack the ability to be inclusive and demonstrate that while we are all different we are still all the same, they must compartmentalize us into groups where we may or may not belong but that suit their limited vision.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3852 on: August 06, 2016, 11:05:41 AM »
  Generally people who oppose the ALM slogan do so for the same reason they believe countering "what about men?" to a feminist argument about the draw backs women face demonstrates a desire to stop having the argument and maintain the status quo, rather than a genuine desire to raise an issue.

Or they might be trying to make the point that for too many centuries, black and brown lives have not mattered.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3853 on: August 06, 2016, 11:11:01 AM »
Or they might be trying to make the point that for too many centuries, black and brown lives have not mattered.

  I feel that's more to with the origing of the BLM slogan and movement rather than the distaste towards the ALM retort.

In other words, because they lack the ability to be inclusive and demonstrate that while we are all different we are still all the same, they must compartmentalize us into groups where we may or may not belong but that suit their limited vision.

  No, its about making the tasks managable. BlackLivesatter has some logical starting points for how to tackle the problem, namely addresses police biast to people of colour. By contrast ALM is incredibly vague. Where is the first step from that sentiment?

  Name any problem in the world you would like to change and I can nullify the discussion by bringing up another problem and accusing you of not caring about it. Or I can accept that you probably know and understand its a problem, but respect your wish to deal with something else. Forget Breastcancer research, all cancer matters.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 11:14:41 AM by LisztesFerenc »

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3854 on: August 06, 2016, 11:15:55 AM »
Or they might be trying to make the point that for too many centuries, black and brown lives have not mattered.

That only applies to some of us though an attitude of superiority is integral to most cultures. 

One life matters as much as every other and until that becomes part of us beyond the point in our lives when we are taught that there are differences there will be a need to remind people that by diminishing one of us we are diminishing all.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3855 on: August 06, 2016, 11:21:31 AM »
That only applies to some of us though an attitude of superiority is integral to most cultures. 

One life matters as much as every other and until that becomes part of us beyond the point in our lives when we are taught that there are differences there will be a need to remind people that by diminishing one of us we are diminishing all.

  That's all good on paper, but in real world of finite resources, tough calls need to be made that incompatible with "all lives matter equally". Younger people for example tend to be prioritized by emergency responders when possible, because in that instance younger lives are judged to be worth more. Similarly if you have an 18 million dollar grant to help children school you will need to choose who to help and who not too, or else the money will be stretch so thin as to be worthless. One of the ways you could choose to focus is to target black communities on he logic that such children tend to be from poorer backgrounds and thus will need the financial aid more.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3856 on: August 06, 2016, 11:21:50 AM »
   No, its about making the tasks managable. BlackLivesatter has some logical starting points for how to tackle the problem, namely addresses police biast to people of colour. By contrast ALM is incredibly vague. Where is the first step from that sentiment?

I am a humanist.  I can't separate people into groups or factions and segregate who I choose to care about.  I believe that by seeing the worth of each of us I see the worth of all of us and by seeing the worth of humans as a whole I see the need and worth of each and every single person. 

We may be derailing this thread, however.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3857 on: August 06, 2016, 11:24:20 AM »
  That's all good on paper, but in real world of finite resources, tough calls need to be made that incompatible with "all lives matter equally". Younger people for example tend to be prioritized by emergency responders when possible, because in that instance younger lives are judged to be worth more. Similarly if you have an 18 million dollar grant to help children school you will need to choose who to help and who not too, or else the money will be stretch so thin as to be worthless. One of the ways you could choose to focus is to target black communities on he logic that such children tend to be from poorer backgrounds and thus will need the financial aid more.

But what gives anyone the right to choose?  How do you decide which button to push to eliminate someone?  How do you rationalize condemning anyone?

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3858 on: August 06, 2016, 11:26:16 AM »
  Generally people who oppose the ALM slogan do so for the same reason they believe countering "what about men?" to a feminist argument about the draw backs women face demonstrates a desire to stop having the argument and maintain the status quo, rather than a genuine desire to raise an issue.

You do realize that "what about men?" is most often raised to make the point that the whole 'patriarchy' and 'privilege' thing is nonsense and that men face difficulties of their own, sometimes the same. It's also raised often in an attempt to show that many of the invented issues of feminists and other regressives are overblown and only an issue because whiners want to make it one.

In other words, because they lack the ability to be inclusive and demonstrate that while we are all different we are still all the same, they must compartmentalize us into groups where we may or may not belong but that suit their limited vision.

Indeed, you're not a person Beguile, you're a woman. You're also your race, nothing else!

  No, its about making the tasks managable. BlackLivesatter has some logical starting points for how to tackle the problem, namely addresses police biast to people of colour. By contrast ALM is incredibly vague. Where is the first step from that sentiment?

ALM is vague because it's the core idea of unbiased that all lives matter, the first step is to forget about skin color. Do I really need to link that interview with Morgan Freeman that a lot of people have seen? That's the first step. Also stop seeing racism everywhere when Occam's Razor can be applied to identify much more likely causes behind a given incident. To hark back to what we once discussed about that police brutality: incompetence of the officer in question, his state of mind, poor training, etc. Unless he walks around with a KKK membership card, those are all more likely than racism. As for the "epidemic" of police brutality, everywhere I look, numbers are in direct correlation with population size and overall crime rate.

  That's all good on paper, but in real world of finite resources, tough calls need to be made that incompatible with "all lives matter equally". Younger people for example tend to be prioritized by emergency responders when possible, because in that instance younger lives are judged to be worth more. Similarly if you have an 18 million dollar grant to help children school you will need to choose who to help and who not too, or else the money will be stretch so thin as to be worthless. One of the ways you could choose to focus is to target black communities on he logic that such children tend to be from poorer backgrounds and thus will need the financial aid more.

I agree with you there. So scrap Black scholarships, just make normal scholarships and then hand them out to the people with the least income, regardless of race and heritage. But no, BLM would find that racist and problematic.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3859 on: August 06, 2016, 11:29:00 AM »
But what gives anyone the right to choose?  How do you decide which button to push to eliminate someone?  How do you rationalize condemning anyone?

  Those are good questions, and everyone needs to decide for themselves how to answer them. If we wait for one answer to be agreed upon by anyone, we'll never do anything, and that as a culture is far more reprehensible than some arbitrary resource allocation.

  When someone decide to help black people, they have made there choice, and when you tell them all lives matter you aren't making the world a better place, you're just making it harder for them to do so in the corner they've chosen.

  I see your point Renegade Vile, I'm not ignoring you, I've on from discussing it further with you.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 11:33:04 AM by LisztesFerenc »

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3860 on: August 06, 2016, 11:51:55 AM »
I think most of us choose to support what directly effects us in our daily lives and that, inadvertently, leads to the exclusion of so much else that could benefit from our attention.

And there is the basic problem.  We refuse to step outside ourselves, our entertainment and our comfort zone and work in the community, teaching others that they matter to us and we should matter to them.

At any given time I see ministers, some politicians and community leaders and a few others who are part of a culture or ethnicity working for their own part of the community.  But at the same time they are doing things that aid people who are not of their culture or ethnicity. 

They teach the lesson that black lives matter as much as every other.  That is a lesson that needs to be more widely taught.

I understand the need and frustration some people feel when they try to start or keep a movement going and see it getting swallowed up but the larger need of humanity to become homogeneous.  We do need to preserve our individuality but we also need to realize we are a part of something so much bigger.  Each time we choose to support something we must recognize that we are also choosing to exclude nearly everything else.  Choosing may be necessary some of the time but we all need to show that everyone has the responsibility to go out and do something to make things better for everyone.


Offline Blythe

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3861 on: August 06, 2016, 01:44:06 PM »
...Oklahoma goes from a $1.3 billion deficit to a surplus of $140 million.

Because Gov. Fallin's cuts were too deep. They seriously need to consider getting some of that surplus money back to priority agencies to help people.

Then again, what was I expecting from the same governor and state legislature that managed to get my state in a $1.3 billion deficit in the first place?  -_-

Representative Richard Morrissette sums up my feelings well:
Quote
"By the way, I don't know if you knew this or not, but we pay for some [of] the Thunder basketball salaries. I mean c'mon. This needs to stop."
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 01:58:11 PM by Blythe »

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3862 on: August 06, 2016, 02:53:12 PM »
Other news:

With all the talk of Zika, we forget about those born from the deadly disease..and their suffering. Gonna be honest I got teary eyed from this.
 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/these-are-the-heroes-looking-out-for-brazils-microcephaly-babies/ar-BBvj4h9?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp

Offline RedRose

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3863 on: August 06, 2016, 03:05:02 PM »
That nasty story comes to an end... I wonder if things would have been different if cops weren't so on edge nowadays. Like if it's a way to show support to the police institution or something. http://www.france24.com/en/20160720-elite-paris-police-cleared-gang-rape-case-brought-canadian-tourist

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3864 on: August 06, 2016, 05:09:42 PM »

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3865 on: August 06, 2016, 05:23:54 PM »

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3866 on: August 06, 2016, 05:48:02 PM »
That went up within minutes of the original report.  People sit around waiting for things like that.

I'm sad that Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers aren't on for the next two weeks. 

Offline Aethereal

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3867 on: August 06, 2016, 07:00:02 PM »
@LisztesFerenc:
         I'm quite sure all she meant to say is that all lives, regardless of the color of skin, matter, as much as racism and prejudice does go all ways. I am sorry if you've predominantly encountered people who do not mean it when they say all lives matter or that we shouldn't single out any one group, but there definitely are people who mean it well and truly (and, in fact, have volunteered, given signatures, voted, organized events, donated money, and participated in support groups and culture exchanges in the name of that principle).
         Every movement has its bad members, exceptionlessly. #BlackLivesMatter is no more "pure" than any other. There are genuine people dedicated to helping blacks who face discrimination, there are people who use it as a shield to be racist towards everyone else, there are mabny who support it only in name, the list goes on... We are all people.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3868 on: August 06, 2016, 11:35:46 PM »
I think there may be a Q&A thread for things like Black Lives Matter and anything dealing with PoC...

From what I can tell, there is a lot of misinformation coming from people that aren't black and they seem to think things work a certain way.

Thats not what this thread is for, so there should be one to squash these stereotypes.

I have a few I can help solve right now.

1. Black children are less likely to have money for higher education and since America has been dividing people since the genocide of the Natives, things like "black scholarships" are necessary.

2. HBCU or Historical Black College Universities are just that HISTORICALLY BLACK. Why? Because back then black students were not allowed to go to colleges that were made for white students only. SO, black people made these colleges that black students could study and learn at. SO, keeping Historically black means to keep the culture. HBCU's are extremely welcoming, affording, accredited, and diverse. There have been plenty of cases were white students graduate at the top of their class at an HBCU. It's a beautiful way to learn things they probably wouldn't have to even think about because the majority of schools are always white.

3. BLM or Black Lives Matter is a movement that brings awareness to the ridiculous amount of Police brutality towards blacks that have been happening since segregation. No, this not new, its just filmed now. We, those that support it, are well aware that Police Brutality happens to everyone. But to say All Lives Matter is disrespectful.

For example...there was a mural of Sandra Bland that just said #Sandrabland and someone painted over it #alllivesmatter, shitting all over a dead woman. That's why allivesmatter is extremely problematic. The #BLM is even happening in places like Brazil where Police brutality happens at an alarming rate in the black communities(mostly Salvador Bahia)

To say that MLK didn't hold up traffic, etc - is another reason why the American education system is going to shit.

Many of my friends who support BLM, myself included, share news reports and videos of white, hispanic, etc getting shot down by the police for no damn reason. And I'm going to be 100% honest, I believe that if it weren't for the BLM movement, these things wouldn't be made aware has heavily as it is now.

Another reason why we need BLM is for example - when (recently, I'll have to look for the article) a white man threatened a police officer with a gun, didn't have a license to carry, and was disrespectful - was not shot...a black man two weeks before this event(we have all discussed it here) mentioned having a gun in the car, reached for this wallet, and got shot...

That is why we say BLM..

4. Another growing issue for Black-Americans is having our identity toyed with. Recently(a few days ago) a Kentucky school tried to ban traditional black hairstyles(cornrows, box braids, afros, and dreadlocs) saying that the styles were distracting...

This is obvious discrimination. Black people experience prejudices all the time because of how we have to take care of our hair and to have someone tell us it's not professional or disgusting absolutely does not feel good at all. I, myself, have experienced this first hand.

5. NAACP was founded by white people. I had to say it, I seriously think people don't know that.

6. Black Panthers vs New Black Panthers - Literally...no level headed black person even associates themselves with NBP or support it. The Black Panther party was not racist...and because of them we have programs like free lunches/breakfasts and Wic

I could go on forever and I'll probably make a thread..

But I get so tired of coming in here to catch up on some news and I see the same people talk about things they no nothing about...

Ask, research, and please be willing to listen. Discrimination, Racism, Sexism, and Homophobia is still very prominent in America and is all over the world. Just because you live in another country, does not mean these things do not happen.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3869 on: August 06, 2016, 11:48:12 PM »
I apologize for derailing. Sometimes I feel down when I see people talk about things that effect my life daily and it hurts when I feel like people don't understand. So I apologize to the admins and everyone else.

Sincere apologies

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3870 on: August 06, 2016, 11:52:07 PM »
I apologize for derailing. Sometimes I feel down when I see people talk about things that effect my life daily and it hurts when I feel like people don't understand. So I apologize to the admins and everyone else.

Sincere apologies

You shouldn't apologize. Being in pain and silent only makes the pain worse. The only way people learn and can help better things is by communication and discussion. We may not all agree here on the methods but at the end of the day we all want the same thing, for the world to be a better place.


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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3871 on: August 06, 2016, 11:57:48 PM »
And Puerto Rico literally completely ran out of money.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/business/dealbook/life-in-the-miasma-of-puerto-ricos-debt.html?_r=0

They are at a negative rate and unable to pay anything. With Negative Rent...I didn't even know that was a thing.
Its being compared to how Greece is in the EU.

*screams into pillow* I blame Congress...and the last three Puerto Rican Governors, its not like this happened overnight this was coming for years.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3872 on: August 07, 2016, 12:05:18 AM »
You shouldn't apologize. Being in pain and silent only makes the pain worse. The only way people learn and can help better things is by communication and discussion. We may not all agree here on the methods but at the end of the day we all want the same thing, for the world to be a better place.

What she said.  :-)

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3873 on: August 07, 2016, 01:55:37 AM »
Ask, research, and please be willing to listen. Discrimination, Racism, Sexism, and Homophobia is still very prominent in America and is all over the world. Just because you live in another country, does not mean these things do not happen.[/justify]

As before, you seem to think people who disagree are just unwilling to listen and ignorant, isn't it a little arrogant to just assume you are correct and just go 'you should ask and research', as if the other person has not done that already but reached a different conclusion?

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3874 on: August 07, 2016, 02:00:53 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/06/belgium-charleroi-two-police-officers-machete

Somehow I don't see things calming down over here anytime soon...