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Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 173556 times)

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Offline Skynet

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3300 on: June 12, 2016, 05:22:56 PM »
         If I'm not mistaken, then he's also dead (I've been working, so not much time to check sources). And, among other things, he does not deserve the post-mortem "fame". The more his name gets thrown around, the more likely it is that there will be imitators. Let him be forgotten and buried.

It's for this reason we should emphasize the names and identities of those who passed away instead of the waste of skin who took them off this Earth.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3301 on: June 12, 2016, 05:36:32 PM »
You know how to fight the Islamaphobic urges you're feeling? Give the criminal a name.

I don't think it's fair to label that as Islamaphobia. It's anger, and rightly so.

Offline Nachtmahr

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3302 on: June 12, 2016, 06:12:11 PM »
I don't think it's fair to label that as Islamaphobia. It's anger, and rightly so.

It's hardly justifiable to be angry at all Muslims based on the actions of one man.

But I don't think this is really the place for a debate on Islamophobia. :/ If anything, I think it's much more important to think of the sorrow and the losses suffered than to dwell on anger and where to point our finger. Whoever is behind this, whether it's ISIS or not, obviously wants us to respond like that. To be angry, scared and ready to lash out based on some misguided concept of "Fair is fair".

Let's try and focus on the news for now, and then take the politics somewhere else.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 06:16:40 PM by Nachtmahr »

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3303 on: June 12, 2016, 06:15:25 PM »
Seems the shooter had been working as a security officer for G4S for many years, so he would have worked armed on a daily basis. He was both knowledgeable about guns and had easy acess to them (not sure whether he would have been able to take his on-the-job rifle home legally, but it probably wouldn't have been very difficult to do, if he was prepared to slip it through anyway...).  :-(

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3304 on: June 12, 2016, 06:23:12 PM »
Glyphstone, you are probably right in giving the garbage a name...maybe I can tomorrow...now his image and name makes me want to puke

Then remove his name but do not allow him the shelter of anonymity.  Call him 'manbudh' - forsaken.  For he is truly forsaken.



There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day
But on the bloody morning after
One tin soldier rides away.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3305 on: June 12, 2016, 08:46:53 PM »
The shooting has NOTHING to do with Islam or Muslim beliefs. The man is AMERICAN and acted out HATE. America has its own disgusting bigoted hate towards the LGBT community and people are just trying to bring another religion and ethnic background into play to act as if America is godly and would never do something like this.

They also have no probably separating the fact the man was American, but instead pointed out his ethnic background. They took FOREVER to release a mug shot of that rapist Brock - but took no time releasing it about the shooter.

My girlfriend is a Lesbian and this shit tore her up. I have a really good friend who is Muslim/North African and is a Lesbian - can you imagine how she feels?

Not only did families lose their loved ones, the LGBT got targeted during a week of pride celebration and month that should be theirs to feel safe and secure(they should always feel this way) and it was fucking taken from them. Muslims will be targeted, once again, all across America.

This is OUR problem. He was American.

(sorry for ranting)

Offline Cycle

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3306 on: June 12, 2016, 09:03:27 PM »
Well, in a more positive note, L.A. residents and police managed to stop a potential shooter.  Way to go, folks.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3307 on: June 12, 2016, 09:35:04 PM »
The shooting has NOTHING to do with Islam or Muslim beliefs. The man is AMERICAN and acted out HATE. America has its own disgusting bigoted hate towards the LGBT community and people are just trying to bring another religion and ethnic background into play to act as if America is godly and would never do something like this.

They also have no probably separating the fact the man was American, but instead pointed out his ethnic background. They took FOREVER to release a mug shot of that rapist Brock - but took no time releasing it about the shooter.

My girlfriend is a Lesbian and this shit tore her up. I have a really good friend who is Muslim/North African and is a Lesbian - can you imagine how she feels?

Not only did families lose their loved ones, the LGBT got targeted during a week of pride celebration and month that should be theirs to feel safe and secure(they should always feel this way) and it was fucking taken from them. Muslims will be targeted, once again, all across America.

This is OUR problem. He was American.

(sorry for ranting)

While it disgusts me to say this but.... Daesh has accepted responsibility for the massacre.  Extremist beliefs are part of this, and sadly, a lot of people cannot differentiate. It should also be noted that yes, he was an American.  He had also pledged himself to Daesh and made his allegiance clear several times during the massacre.  At that point, I do not WANT to call him an American.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3308 on: June 12, 2016, 09:40:08 PM »
That's the problem. People don't' want to accept that this was our citizen. They want to put blame on something else...to make it seem like America's political, religious, and social ideologies have nothing to do with with how people act.

They didn't say Brock wasn't an American...what's the difference?

It is terrorism...but is a hate crime. He was upset that he saw two gay men kissing, that was his motivation. He used his religion as an excuse. I will NOT sit here and see that happen. Especially when there are so many muslim gay people in our country and around the world. This is not okay.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3309 on: June 12, 2016, 09:50:00 PM »
That's the problem. People don't' want to accept that this was our citizen. They want to put blame on something else...to make it seem like America's political, religious, and social ideologies have nothing to do with with how people act.

They didn't say Brock wasn't an American...what's the difference?

It is terrorism...but is a hate crime. He was upset that he saw two gay men kissing, that was his motivation. He used his religion as an excuse. I will NOT sit here and see that happen. Especially when there are so many muslim gay people in our country and around the world. This is not okay.

You do realize you are basing your "he was upset that he saw two gay men kissing" on his father's statement - a man who has videos out there showing his support of the Afghan Taliban?? You are also flat out ignoring the fact that a terrorist organization has claimed responsibility

YES - America has a long way to go when it comes to accepting everyone.  YES - there are some sick assholes out there rejoicing at what has happened. But no, this is not some 'I hate gays because I seen two men kissing so I'm gonna go shoot up a gay club'. This is a domestic terrorist who pledged his allegiance on the phone to 911 operators while killing people in the club.

This is far more than a hate crime.

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3310 on: June 12, 2016, 09:54:51 PM »
I don't think you see my point. I don't want to go into it because I just finished consoling a heartbroken girlfriend. All I'm going to say is with bs that's happening in politics, now Muslims are even more feared than before. We have our own goddamn terrorists shooting up schools, churches, planned parenthood, and movie theaters. They're all American. And our problem. We have our own religion that teaches hate and our own issues. These are our people and we need to correct it. It's hate crime and two groups are fearing for their lives.

I'm going to bow it since this isn't supposed to be a debate thread.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3311 on: June 12, 2016, 10:07:52 PM »
You do realize you are basing your "he was upset that he saw two gay men kissing" on his father's statement - a man who has videos out there showing his support of the Afghan Taliban?? You are also flat out ignoring the fact that a terrorist organization has claimed responsibility

YES - America has a long way to go when it comes to accepting everyone.  YES - there are some sick assholes out there rejoicing at what has happened. But no, this is not some 'I hate gays because I seen two men kissing so I'm gonna go shoot up a gay club'. This is a domestic terrorist who pledged his allegiance on the phone to 911 operators while killing people in the club.

This is far more than a hate crime.


Yes, I agree this is about more than simple homophobia. The guy was acting out a belief that "non-straight and non-binary" people don't even deserve to live, that they should be exterminated and cleaned out of the social order. And it does look like he was linking that belief to ideas about a hardcore islamist order, ISIS style. He pledged allegiance to ISIS before he began firing, and ISIS have accepted it. Mentally, it's a small version of Hitler's programme for clearing Europe of Jews, really.

My disgust for that guy is about his violent and authoritarian brand of islamist (using muslim ideas and traditions as a blueprint for politics, for a good society or whatever) LGBT-phobia and killings. Islamist, not "muslim". I would never say this is something most muslims subscribe to, or that they have to agree with if they are "real muslims". Most muslims felt 9/11 was a sickening act too.

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3312 on: June 12, 2016, 10:17:08 PM »
I feel this is just a case of a perfect storm. All of these things coming together.

He supports daesh, was looking for a target to attack in the name of his group and after losing his shit over two gay men, he knew exactly who and where to hit.

Yeah we do have a problem in the US of mass shootings and these killers. If you ask me we are treating this the wrong way. Already we are tearing eachother apart and that's exactly what Daesh wants. To make us weaker and break our unity.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3313 on: June 12, 2016, 10:25:26 PM »
I do not blame Muslims for this.  I, at least, know how to differentiate between what Daesh believes and true Muslims.  I blame a man so filled with hate and the belief that the whole world has to be, think, and live the way he believes is right - and by extension, those that are called Daesh.  As someone else said, I won't give the shooter any publicity for this and instead have posted the first names of those murdered so that they will be remembered.

What makes me happy - because I refuse to focus on the negative - is seeing so many people lined up for hours on end to give blood. To see organizations stepping up to help the families of the victims.

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3314 on: June 12, 2016, 10:34:42 PM »
America is a land of many people, many religion,s many races and sexualities. E pluribus Unum. Out of many we are One.

No matter how much those on the outside try to take that away from us, it will never fade or be destroyed. It is one of the tenants this nation stands upon. They may rip, tear, stab and make it bleed. But the tree of liberty stands, strengthened through unity.

Our greatest strength, is that no matter what happens, when one of us falls. The others will pick them back up.

Edit: You know what? I feel like the SWAT team that breached the building and finally put an end to this should all be given medals. Get some positive news up there. To show that we are not defeated and stand strong and stuff...(I ran out of words to use :( )
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 10:44:19 PM by Lustful Bride »

Offline White Wolf

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3315 on: June 12, 2016, 11:42:32 PM »
In Northern Ireland in the late 70s and 80s, the British had a policy of denying Provisional IRA Volunteers their full rights as political prisoners. They were forced to wear regular prison uniform and were housed in standard cellblocks (i.e. not segregated between "Republican" and "Loyalist" factions). The idea was pretty simple - to drive home the message that the IRA was not a legitimate political organisation and, as such, its members - be they gunmen, bombers, snipers, artillerymen, what have you - were simply crazed criminals running around shooting guns. Not a legitimate army and not a legitimate political organisation worthy of recognition.

This is how we need to learn to talk about ISIS, and other Islamist terrorist organisations. The front page of today's New York Times flaunts the headline "Praising ISIS, Gunman Attacks Gay Nightclub." That doesn't even follow a standard headline format, they're so desperate to get the most out of the sensationalism.

What is that, other than a PR campaign run on ISIS' behalf? It's sure as shit not real journalism.

Obama promised to "degrade and destroy" ISIS. The first step to doing that, I think, is to acknowledge ISIS for what it is - a collection of mentally unstably people going around psychotically murdering people for no discernible reason.

Does a single nation on Earth recognise the Islamic State as a sovereign nation-state in its own right? No.

Does a single nation on Earth recognise ISIS as an official military or paramilitary organisation? No.

Do Muslims regard ISIS or its ideals as representing actual Islam? No.

ISIS, by any criteria, isn't really a thing. It has no point, other than giving people an excuse to rape and kill and slaughter. It only exists as an organisation through its own propaganda - propaganda that the media then is happy to flaunt as an excuse to sell copy.

We need to recognise members of ISIS for what they are - murderers using ISIS itself as an excuse. In this case, in Orlando, it's likely just that - but even closer to the source, in ISIS' territory across Iraq and Syria, membership of ISIS is probably less about belief in God and more about, you know, getting to kill people you don't like and raping any girl you see in the streets. Think about it.

We need to stop buying into their bullshit of being a force worthy of respect or even recognition. We need to refuse to take part in their brutal masquerade. Only then will we dispel the mystique and allure surrounding them that lures disaffected young men to commit atrocities in their vague name.

...That's...just my two cents. I'm kind of torn up about all this and...I...don't really know how we're supposed to respond to this stuff anymore. But that New York Times headlines fucking infuriated me.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3316 on: June 13, 2016, 12:31:23 AM »
Yes, I see your point White Wolf, but likely if they wanted to handle ISIS militants/crooks/gunmen/informers within the standard jail system it would require special high-security jails built specially for those guys. Simply because housing them together with other prisoners would a) put all the other prisoners at extra risk from hostage takings, attempted jail rebellions, suicide protests inside the prison and the like and b) provide those ISIS guys with a steady flow of people they could try to convert. These people need to be isolated from the larger group of ordinary criminals, at least the more committed and hardcore folks among the ISIS/Daesh crowd.

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3317 on: June 13, 2016, 12:35:40 AM »
The idea was pretty simple - to drive home the message that the IRA was not a legitimate political organisation and, as such, its members - be they gunmen, bombers, snipers, artillerymen, what have you - were simply crazed criminals running around shooting guns. Not a legitimate army and not a legitimate political organisation worthy of recognition.

This is one of the reasons that you'll also see them referred to as Daesh.  While it is a legitimate phonetic acronym for the group's name, it means something roughly along the lines of 'tyrant - a fair bit less flattering than an Egyptian goddess.  Names are powerful things.  Publicize the victims' names, and their memory lives on.  Deny the terrorists their names and their memory fades the quicker. 

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3318 on: June 13, 2016, 12:48:11 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/massive-nkorea-cyber-attack-thwarted-after-hacking-skorea-report/ar-AAgXSvk?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

South Korea stops NK Cyber Attack that targeted 160 companies.

That...that could have caused an economic meltdown! 0_0

Online SaydenEmery

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3319 on: June 13, 2016, 02:21:43 AM »
I will say this, because I live in Orlando. We are coming together as a community and supporting one another during this time. We are grieving very much as a whole, and showing compassion for one another, regardless of background. It's this togetherness that makes me proud of my city. There's very little else we can do except continue to console one another and make forward progress. I am not seeing fear, but outrage, and strength.

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3320 on: June 13, 2016, 04:15:30 AM »
I am not seeing fear, but outrage, and strength.

The same reigned here (Belgium) after the attacks of a while back. Shows how futile attacks like these really are...

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3321 on: June 13, 2016, 06:30:57 AM »
Well, in a more positive note, L.A. residents and police managed to stop a potential shooter.  Way to go, folks.

I think it's worth keeping this story in mind.

Over the coming days/weeks/months there's no doubt going to be a considerable discussion about how Islam and Muslims view LGBT people, much like how in the wake of the Charleston Church shooting by Dylann Roof there was considerable discussion about "Southern Pride" and the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Things like Sheikh Farrokh Sekaleshfar who spoke in Orlando back in April talking about how death is the sentence for homosexuality (which is sadly far from a unique view) will be brought up. And I have no doubt that part of that discussion will be those on the Christian right essentially going "well, for all the homophobic stuff we say and propose on the basis of our religion, at least we're not killing LGBT people", setting Christianity as at worst the lesser of two evils compared to Islam when it comes to LGBT issues.

But to do so they'll have to ignore this story.

Less information has come out about this man and what there has has been less publicized. But from what we know he falls pretty firmly into the stereotypical right wing Christian conservative position. And it's not as if there aren't the Christian equivalent of the above Islamic speakers using their take on Christianity to support their views... and in the West at least the Christian speakers tend to have the bigger platforms. Pastor Kevin Swanson got a fair amount of media attention for these comments at a conference that then Presidential candidates Ted Cruz, Bobby Jindal and Mike Huckabee attended and again, much like Farrokh Sekaleshfar above, his views are sadly far from unique. The reason the focus in the coming weeks will be on Islam and its views on LGBT people and not Christianity and its views is simply that one man was caught before he could do any harm and one tragically wasn't.

Shows how futile attacks like these really are...

The man hated LGBT people and wanted to kill them. Tragically he was very successful at doing so. The attack was many things but it wasn't futile; he got exactly what he wanted and at least 49 other people paid for that with their lives.


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Offline Lilias

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #3324 on: June 13, 2016, 08:32:25 AM »
The idea of uniforms is still odd to me. I don't think we ever had uniforms in Belgium, at most there were regulations. You're still pretty much asked to show up dressed properly though.

I absolutely love school uniforms. They do away with all the debate and drama over what is and is not appropriate, and level a few social and financial differences into the bargain, as well. Everyone wears the same thing, end of story, now concentrate on your lessons!

In Greece we had to wear blue smocks over our regular clothes until the early 80s. I loved mine, because it didn't matter if what I was wearing underneath was old or mismatched. ;D

As for the whole gender-neutral uniform thing... I can't see many boys going for skirts. Those things are uncomfortable when you want to run and play around! Not to mention cold. (Which is why most girls go for trouser options at least half of the year.)