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Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 174164 times)

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Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1575 on: July 27, 2015, 09:08:54 AM »
Wow - Roseanne still thinks she's relevant?

Wish I could upvote this. Roeseanne is just a washed up actresss whose throwing a tantrum in her own way to get attention.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1576 on: July 27, 2015, 11:06:27 AM »
I have no idea who Roseanne is.

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1577 on: July 27, 2015, 11:13:22 AM »
And you are a better man as a result :)

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1578 on: July 27, 2015, 11:15:53 AM »
If you take the red pill, you may continue on in blissful ignorance.
If you take the blue pill there is no turning back.

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1579 on: July 27, 2015, 11:20:24 AM »
Don't take the pill... Seriously... don't.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1580 on: July 27, 2015, 11:33:33 AM »
What if I crush up the red pill and the blue pill, make purple powder, and snort it?

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1581 on: July 27, 2015, 11:50:15 AM »
Everything's better than taking the blue pill Oni offered.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1582 on: July 28, 2015, 04:17:16 AM »
If you take the red pill, you may continue on in blissful ignorance.
If you take the blue pill there is no turning back.

That was awesome in a playing a game of chess with a pigeon kind of way. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon always knocks over the pieces, craps on the board, and struts around like it is victorious.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1583 on: July 28, 2015, 06:24:37 AM »

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1584 on: July 28, 2015, 06:49:57 AM »
Wow... are all Twitter debates so vulgar?  :o

Yes.

Twitter could pretty much be the worst thing to happen to public discourse in years. I know I'm long-winded to begin with but even taking that into account 140 characters is nowhere near long enough to explain a point and trying to break something up over a dozen or so tweets just makes it virtually unreadable. Thus, even if everyone goes into a discussion in good faith virtually all nuance is lost.

Then add in both the general trolls who are just looking for a rise and the more hardcore supporters/opponents of anything to do with politics (and sports on a sports stars twitter) who get really angry.

Then add in the fact that Twitter by tweeting something publicly you're already implicitly playing to the audience; most twitter "debates" are less about convincing the other person then they are trying to convince the people who are reading it.

Then add in (and combine with the above) the "gotcha" nature of Twitter where it seems half the point is waiting for someone to say something that can then be retweeted with an "OMG, I can't believe they said this!" comment attached.

If you have something important and meaningful to say Twitter is basically the last place one should try to say it.

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1585 on: July 28, 2015, 06:53:25 AM »
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/28/hong-kong-giant-panda-jia-jia-birthday-oldest-ever-captivity

This just completely made my day...

It's the oldest living Panda in captivity and look at her face... she genuinely looks happy with her ice cake...

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1586 on: July 28, 2015, 07:07:22 AM »
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/28/hong-kong-giant-panda-jia-jia-birthday-oldest-ever-captivity

This just completely made my day...

It's the oldest living Panda in captivity and look at her face... she genuinely looks happy with her ice cake...

...

Quote
“Jia Jia has achieved two Guinness world record titles – the oldest panda living in captivity and the oldest panda ever living in captivity,"

Isn't that one in the same thing? ;\

But good for her nonetheless.

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1587 on: July 28, 2015, 07:25:31 AM »
Presumably, if there had been a panda sometime in the past that had lived longer than Jia Jia but is now dead, then that panda would hold the second record.  A living panda could not hold the second record without holding the first.

Wow... are all Twitter debates so vulgar?  :o

Any conversation that Roseanne Barr is involved in quickly becomes that vulgar.  Twitter, real life, semaphore, you name it.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1588 on: July 28, 2015, 07:27:51 AM »
Presumably, if there had been a panda sometime in the past that had lived longer than Jia Jia but is now dead, then that panda would hold the second record.  A living panda could not hold the second record without holding the first.

I'm sorry, I still can't comprehend the logic behind it. >_<

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1589 on: July 28, 2015, 07:28:34 AM »
Any conversation that Roseanne Barr is involved in quickly becomes that vulgar.  Twitter, real life, semaphore, you name it.

Really? She's that bad? I have almost no knowledge of her aside from knowing the name and the face...

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1590 on: July 28, 2015, 09:17:20 AM »
I'm sorry, I still can't comprehend the logic behind it. >_<


Okay - Jia Jia is 37 and still alive.  Let's assume there was some other panda that died at 40.

Jia Jia would have the record for the oldest panda living in captivity.  (currently living in captivity)

The other panda would have the record for the oldest panda ever living in captivity.   (of all pandas that have lived in captivity)

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1591 on: July 28, 2015, 09:55:57 AM »

Okay - Jia Jia is 37 and still alive.  Let's assume there was some other panda that died at 40.

Jia Jia would have the record for the oldest panda living in captivity.  (currently living in captivity)

The other panda would have the record for the oldest panda ever living in captivity.   (of all pandas that have lived in captivity)

But wouldn't that record in essence be pointless of currently living in captivity? As soon as she dies it is pretty much moot/reset and she would only have the 'ever living' in captivity. Assuming nothing outlived whatever age she may pass as.

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1592 on: July 28, 2015, 10:13:33 AM »
As I said, a living panda could not hold the second record without also holding the first.  However, when she dies, the next-oldest panda gets the first record, but Lia Lia keeps the second one.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1593 on: July 28, 2015, 11:33:46 AM »
It's a bit like some guys I heard discussing the sentence "The planet circling around Kepler-452 is the most Earth-like planet ever found"...and the counter-argument: "Wait - isn't Earth the most Earth-like planet we've ever known?"  ::)

OT: A team of Swedish divers and sea wreck experts find a sunken Russian submarine a few miles from the coastline - at first it's described as "very recent and without any major cover of barnacles or anything" which would implicitly have meant an embarrassing sensation for the Kremlin, considering how many times the Swedish navy have hunted submarines in our difficult coastal waters (with lots of small islands and firths). A few days later it turns out that it's most likely a hundred years old, matching a vessel that was sunk in 1916. Very interesting but politically stone-age.

*waves to Dasha*
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 11:44:55 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1594 on: July 29, 2015, 04:04:44 AM »
Senior Afghan government sources say Mullah Omar, the exiled leader of the Taliban, is dead - and died two or three years ago. More comments are sure to come both from the Afghans, from Pakistan and from Washington.

Offline Cycle

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1595 on: July 29, 2015, 12:05:34 PM »
What the heck is wrong with this man?

Seriously, you want to play big tough hunter?  Fine.  Here, take this knife and go out into the wilderness.  Show us how tough you are.  Go on.


Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1596 on: July 29, 2015, 02:58:45 PM »
What the heck is wrong with this man?

Seriously, you want to play big tough hunter?  Fine.  Here, take this knife and go out into the wilderness.  Show us how tough you are.  Go on.

I can respect real hunters, going out into the wilderness, only you and nature, bagging your kill and if edible actually eating it instead of letting the body go to waste.

But this guy is nothing more than a poacher, thinks his shit doesn't stink and that he can kill whatever he wants. The article says this isn't the first time hes run into trouble with hunting laws.

Hunting can be a real experience for those who are willing to take the chance and work hard. And then there are these assholes! Fucking ruining it for everyone!

Offline Cycle

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1597 on: July 29, 2015, 03:08:35 PM »
Right, if someone is hunting to put food on the table, I can respect that.  It serves a purpose, not an ego.

This guy.  He's just human garbage.  Seriously, he didn't know it was a collared lion from a refuge?  Uh-huh.  Sure he didn't. 


Offline Joel

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1598 on: July 29, 2015, 03:29:58 PM »
luring the lion out of the refuge with an animal carcass tied to the hood of a truck... hmm... how much can you actually blame your guides for.

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1599 on: July 29, 2015, 06:46:26 PM »
As an aside I've actually done something similar to big game hunting. During one of my jaunts around southern Africa I worked with a conservation/research team in South Africa and as part of their work they needed to bring down a rhino so they give it a health checkup and plant a tracker on it. The tranquilizer dart itself had to be shot by a trained and licensed vet but I was able to take the secondary shot (with a dart full of vitamins to try to prevent any issues for the animal). As such a lot of the elements of a "proper" hunt were there; tracking the animal, trying to avoid spooking it, getting into range and a clear shot, pulling the trigger etc etc. If anything on the "thrill and danger" side of things it probably beats "proper" hunting; most "proper" hunting shots are taken at a considerable distance and immediately either kill or disable the animal. In contrast a tranquilizer dart needs to be fired from much closer and takes about 30 minutes to bring a rhino down... the amount of paperwork and disclaimers I had to sign before taking part put some of the work I did as a corporate solicitor working on billion+ pound deals to shame. As such I think I have at least some understanding of what attracts people to big game hunting and the thrill of doing so... and to be honest it was a massive thrill.

The first somewhat controversial thing to note. Big game hunting can be a good thing in the right circumstances. There's a tendency from those who haven't spent much time in southern Africa to think of it as a theme park and the animals there as something between pets and art exhibits. It isn't and they're not. While South Africa tends to fence in their national parks most of the other countries don't; animals generally ignore lines on a map saying that they're no longer in a national park and instead heading towards a settlement. I've seen the damage an elephant who wanders into a village can do, see the absolute devastation to infrastructure that they can cause. You'll see a lot of Kenyan elephants with scars on their sides. That's frequently not from dueling with rival elephants, fighting off predators or escaping poachers... its from villagers throwing rocks and branches at them in an attempt to drive them away from their homes. It's one of the difficult balancing act from living in such a region; the animals can provide a huge economic boost to you and your community (both through legal and illegal methods) but all it takes is an elephant to turn right instead of left and you can see your home destroyed and your life's work in ruins.

It should also be noted how lucrative hunting can be. To kill a southern white rhino? We're talking $70,000+ for a permit. A lion? In this story the figure was around $50k and the lowest I've ever seen was in the low thirties. Elephants? Around $25-30k If a permit for a black rhino ever came up (and from what I understand those are once in a blue moon type events) you're literally talking millions. Even the "general" hunting permits which allow the hunting of 10 or so non-protected animals (think common gazelles or antelope) can run to thousands of dollars. That and the other costs associated with going on a hunt brings a lot of money to the government, the community and those who work and assist with the hunts themselves. The conservation team I worked with are actually largely self-funding through offering people the chance to do the sort of "green hunting" I did (I should note that I didn't pay anything directly for taking the shot or even know I was going to be doing it until the start of the stalk), attracting those who either don't want to kill or can't afford the prices mentioned above. If you spend a bit more money you can have a photo taken standing next to the unconscious animal and in the case of rhinos get a cast made of their horn to take home. The big hunting organizations now accept these as evidence of a successful hunt which may well lead to less people going on "proper" hunts.

With regards to what licenses are issued I also did some work with one of the bodies that regulates hunting in South Africa. Populations need to be healthy and sustainable before any licensees are issued and, even when they are, a license for hunting a protected animal tend to be for one specific animal where possible rather than a carte blanche to shootthe first one you come across. To use male lions as an example when a license is issued it tends to be for old lion who's coming to the end of his expected lifespan and already lost a battle for his pride, thus being forced out with little hope of ever getting a new one. Their death has less impact on the wider system then the killing of a lion within a pride would (as their death will quite possibly lead to their cubs being killed unless their mothers are sneaky... which many are). As such there can be a lot of economic benefit with little ecological impact and while I'm certainly not saying I support it I can at least see the case for it, especially in a world where poaching remains a huge issue; there's less financial incentive to either poach or accept bribes from poachers to kill large numbers of animals if a rich person is going to come along and spend thousands to shoot a single one a month later.

But that's discussing a situation where the proper licenses are obtained and the requirements stuck to. And that didn't happen here.

To first give the best possible spin I can for the dentist in question. He'd hired a local professional hunter and expert to facilitate the trip and arrange the paper work. He did have a license to shoot a lion with a bow and arrow... just not that lion and not in that place. But as mentioned above it's not as if national parks have big signs all along the edges saying that it's a national park and Hwange (the park the killing took place just outside of) isn't fenced. If his expert told him that he was allowed to take the shot then I can see why he would accept that. Likewise tracking collars aren't particularly easy to spot on male lions due to the mane and especially not at distance... to take Cecil himself as an example this is the last known shot of him taken about a month ago (with Jericho the other male lion). Another, earlier, photo can be seen here. In either case can you make out the tracking collar? Because I'm struggling to. Attempting to destroy the collar after the kill certainly doesn't look good but I can conceive of the group panicking after they realized that they'd made an innocent but deadly mistake and trying to cover their tracks. Now, similar to how when an accountant screws up their clients tax return the client can't just wash their hands of it and place all the consequences on the accountant, even if this spin is true the dentist can't be held blameless... but I think most can accept it's a less morally blameworthy situation.

But that's putting the most positive spin possible.

I've met some big game hunters and to a man (and they were all men) they fitted pretty squarely into the "alpha male" stereotype... or at least tried to present themselves as being alpha males. The dentist reportedly paid $50,000 for his trip... I can see him putting a huge amount of pressure on his helper/assistant/guide/expert to let him shoot the lion; Cecil's black mane which made him famous also made him a tempting trophy. As for the helper, big game hunting isn't a massive community (if nothing else there aren't that many people who can afford to do it) and I imagine word gets round. If a client spent $50,000 to shoot a lion with a bow and arrow and you didn't get him a lion to shoot I can certainly see how that could darken your reputation and put your business under pressure when the client gets home and talks about his trip and ff you're an employee rather than the business owner itself then it's probably worth more than your job is. I can see why you'd under immense pressure to let a client who paid as much as he did do basically what he wanted or demanded. Likewise I can easily perceive a situation where the hunter demanded that the expert baited the lion out of the national park so he could shoot him seemingly without consequence.

Big game hunting is an emotive topic at the best of times. But I think we should be careful to avoid conflating this hunt with all big game hunts. That's not to say that one has to support (or at least tolerate) big game hunting or even that people crossing the line from legitimate hunting to poaching isn't a issue... but a single tragic example shouldn't be used as both the start and end of the discussion.