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Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 172574 times)

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Offline ShadowFox89

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1500 on: July 22, 2015, 01:35:20 AM »
Apparently the sweedes have submitted a proposal to join NATO, Russia is threatening vague "consequences"

 But those Russians in Sweden WANT to rejoin the motherland!

 edit: And on topic, insofar as anything in this thread can be considered "on topic"

 http://imgur.com/gallery/8BbKysr

 Not a main news site, but imgur still gives me more news than I actually get from, say, TheGuardian or MSNBC....
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 03:48:19 AM by ShadowFox89 »

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1501 on: July 22, 2015, 09:33:22 AM »
The arrest of Sandra Bland seems...  wrong.

Video is here.

And apparently, the released video has been edited.  Not in a 'let's get rid of the boring bits' way, either - there are bits where cars driving by abruptly disappear only to drive back into the scene as they had previously, where people in the scene abruptly disappear and then reappear, repeating earlier actions.

Offline Cycle

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1502 on: July 22, 2015, 01:02:30 PM »
And now the police department is saying the video wasn't edited, that it was an uploading glitch. 

The audio is clear and transcript of what led up to the arrest is disturbing:

Quote
TROOPER: “You OK?”

BLAND: “I’m waiting on you. This is your job. I’m waiting on you. What do you want me to do?”

TROOPER: “You seem very irritated.”

BLAND: “I am. I really am. Because of what I’ve been stopped and am getting a ticket for. I’ve been getting out of the way. You’ve been speeding up, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated. But that didn’t stop you from giving me a ticket.”

TROOPER: “Are you done?”

BLAND: “You asked me what was wrong and I told you. So now I’m done, yeah.”

TROOPER: “OK, OK.”

(Pause)

TROOPER: “Do you mind putting out your cigarette, please?”

BLAND: “I’m in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?”

TROOPER: “Well, you can step out now.”

BLAND: “I don’t have to step on out.”

TROOPER: “Step out of the car.”

(He opens the driver’s side door.)

BLAND: “No, you don’t have the right.”

TROOPER: “Step out of the car!”

BLAND: “You don’t have the right to do that.”

TROOPER: “I do have the right. Now step out or I’ll remove you.”

BLAND: “I am getting removed for failure to signal?”

TROOPER: “Step out or I’ll remove you. I’m giving you a lawful order. Get out of the car now or I’m going to remove you.”

BLAND: “I’m calling my lawyer.”

TROOPER: “I’m going to yank you out of here.”

BLAND: “OK, you’re going to yank me out of the car?”

TROOPER: “Get out!” (reaching into the car)

BLAND: “Don’t touch me!”

TROOPER: “Get out of the car!”

BLAND: “Don’t touch me. I am not under arrest. You don’t have the right to touch me.”

TROOPER: “You are under arrest.”

BLAND: “I’m under arrest for what?”

(Trooper radios for backup.)

TROOPER: “Get out of the car! Get out of the car now!”

BLAND: “Am I being apprehended? Did you try to give me a ticket?”

TROOPER: “Get out of the car!”

BLAND: “Why am I being apprehended? You done opened my car door. So you’re going to drag me out of my own car?”

TROOPER: “Get out of the car! I will light you up! Get out!”

BLAND: (Stepping out, holding phone) “Wow. Wow. You’re doing all this for a failure to signal?”

TROOPER: “Get over there!” (Directing her to the side of the road)

BLAND: “Right. Yeah, let’s take this to court.”

TROOPER: “Get off the phone!”

BLAND: “I’m off the phone. I’m making a record.”

TROOPER: “Put the phone down.”

(Now off-camera)

BLAND: “Are you feeling good about yourself? Are you feeling good about yourself? For a failure to signal, you’re feeling good about yourself.”

TROOPER: “Turn around. Turn around now! Put your hands behind your back and turn around now!”

(Later)

BLAND: "You just slammed me, knocked my head to the ground.  I got epilepsy, you motherfucker."

TROOPER: "Good."


Seriously, what is going on here?!?


Online Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1503 on: July 22, 2015, 01:05:17 PM »
It's people who think they are very important and think they are above the law. That's whats going on.


I'm frankly surprised anybody still stops for an officer in the US. The way I see it there is a 50/50 chance you'll die anyway. Even if you pull over and cooperate.


Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1504 on: July 22, 2015, 01:27:51 PM »
I'm frankly surprised anybody still stops for an officer in the US. The way I see it there is a 50/50 chance you'll die anyway. Even if you pull over and cooperate.

They stop for officers because not all of them are bad. Your average officer is not out to abuse power, but if you tell on the ones who do abuse their power, you get ostracized as a snitch and we all know what happens to snitches.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1505 on: July 22, 2015, 01:34:19 PM »
They stop for officers because not all of them are bad. Your average officer is not out to abuse power, but if you tell on the ones who do abuse their power, you get ostracized as a snitch and we all know what happens to snitches.

They get caught by Seekers to win the quidditch match?

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1506 on: July 22, 2015, 01:38:15 PM »
They get caught by Seekers to win the quidditch match?

*grumble* Damn Griffindor fools!

Online Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1507 on: July 22, 2015, 02:09:40 PM »
They stop for officers because not all of them are bad. Your average officer is not out to abuse power, but if you tell on the ones who do abuse their power, you get ostracized as a snitch and we all know what happens to snitches.

There is nothing wrong with the police officers, there is something wrong with the attitude of some and perhaps there need to be some fundamental changes to the laws, liberties and recruiting policies regarding police officers.

Saw a clip today. One cop car is following an armed man. Cop warns oncoming colleague that the man is dangerous. From behind the cop car, another cop cars comes out and just runs over the man.

Armed or not, that is pretty severe.

disturbing video

Full story here:

http://theladbuzz.blogspot.nl/2015/04/arizona-officer-rams-car-into-armed.html


What I don't understand is that the police officer is given a leave and has been back on duty. In any normal country he would suspended for the rest of his life and charged with attempted murder. I'm not saying all cops are bad but stuff like this is REALLY not helping the case. Anybody with a mental state like that should not be a police officer.

Offline Mintprincess

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1508 on: July 22, 2015, 03:41:58 PM »
I'm going to look at this from both sides.  What both cops did in both cases was overreaction and flat out wrong.  But I think admonishing cops, (generally) who also get killed in the line of work and have very very high stress jobs isn't going to fix things either. 

For cycle's two lines in (reading) my first thought is that she was pretty snotty. I've been pulled over. Many times. And ive always been polite.  If you don't agree with your ticket you can go to court but getting snotty and rude with people who work on the edge is just stupid.  It's like how I can't understand why people treat wait-servers like crap when that's the person who has control of your food.   Be polite.  Be reasonable.  Usually there won't be an issue.

Second.  Handling yourself during a crisis with adrenaline in your system sets you often on autopilot and rational thought can vanish.  Especially without good training.  Look at how rigorous navy seals train because we know they will be in intense situations.  These days there are as many stories of cops being shot for routine traffic stops as well.  They have to approach every vehicle on edge because they don't know what they will get.  The guy in the video had been known already to use the weapon and commit crimes.  The reaction was not right. I'm not saying it is.  But fear, being amped up, running on adreline make for strong and powerful forces in our reactions.   What we need to look at is are our cops really getting the right crisis training to deal with these situations to keep them thinking and responding smartly and calmly in the heat of the moment. 

Saying we have bad apples won't solve it.  Training and weeding out those who can't handle the stress is better.  Ensuring that proper support post high stress incidents is occuring will help. Working simulations of all kinds of people at traffic stops, better 'hazard recognition' techniques as we call it in my Industry for who is just a snotty person and who is truly dangerous will help.  And with excellent training, the grounds for disciplining what should be less cases will also be much firmer.   


Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1509 on: July 22, 2015, 04:00:16 PM »
Second.  Handling yourself during a crisis with adrenaline in your system sets you often on autopilot and rational thought can vanish.  Especially without good training.  Look at how rigorous navy seals train because we know they will be in intense situations.  These days there are as many stories of cops being shot for routine traffic stops as well.  They have to approach every vehicle on edge because they don't know what they will get.  The guy in the video had been known already to use the weapon and commit crimes.  The reaction was not right. I'm not saying it is.  But fear, being amped up, running on adreline make for strong and powerful forces in our reactions.   What we need to look at is are our cops really getting the right crisis training to deal with these situations to keep them thinking and responding smartly and calmly in the heat of the moment. 

  This one I'd say works against the cops more, because the same is true for a civilian, and they haven't had any training to handle it. I agree with the broader point that anti police rhetoric invariable gets carried away in incidents such as these, but that's just part of our culture and isn't going to change any time soon. Better trained cops however is far more reachable.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 04:01:20 PM by LisztesFerenc »

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1510 on: July 22, 2015, 07:04:35 PM »
But apparently this cop has been cited for racism in the past and this WAS/IS a hate crime. So snotty or not, they killed her and arrested her for no reason. So, why are justifying this?

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1511 on: July 22, 2015, 08:29:22 PM »
Last I heard, they were investigating it as a homicide, so at least the cops have been called out on the 'suicide' story.

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1512 on: July 22, 2015, 09:21:57 PM »
But apparently this cop has been cited for racism in the past and this WAS/IS a hate crime. So snotty or not, they killed her and arrested her for no reason. So, why are justifying this?

Im not justifying it. If the cop is a racist then strip him of his badge and let him be dishonored and shamed for life. If they killed that woman then they should be jailed for their crimes. Im just saying that not all cops are bad because it seems no matter where else i look that's all people are saying.

Offline Cycle

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1513 on: July 22, 2015, 09:32:39 PM »
Im just saying that not all cops are bad because it seems no matter where else i look that's all people are saying.

Agreed that not all cops are bad. 

And actually, people do say good things about law enforcement officers.  See?

https://twitter.com/RobGodfrey/status/622494558249684992/photo/1

Considering the KKKers rallying after the Confederate flag decision, I thought the above image was extremely powerful. That a black officer would still reach out to help a KKK member to water and shade was very moving...I would have been hard-pressed in the officer's position to want to bother to help that white supremacist guy at all.

(Edit: As a note, I'm referring only to the original Twitter comment by Godfrey and the photo, not any subsequent commentary by others on the photo)


Offline Mintprincess

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1514 on: July 22, 2015, 10:46:17 PM »
Hate crimes are wrong.  Both those reactions were wrong.  I'm not justifying either.  But generalizations have and always will bother and upset me and I'm going to speak out against them.  And I'm always going to look for both sides and real solutions.  Not let us criminalize this side or that.  But what can we really do to improve them. 

And education and training will always be part of that.


Edited cuz in my less than sober state I wasn't very clear.  It's just generalizations I have issues with. Not punishing people who clearly break the law and should be responsible for those actions. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 09:28:45 AM by Mintprincess »

Offline la dame en noir

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1515 on: July 23, 2015, 01:25:03 AM »
Ha...

Why do I even put in my two cents?

Stuck up or not, he had no fucking right.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1516 on: July 23, 2015, 03:04:09 AM »
Hate crimes are wrong.  Both those reactions were wrong.  I'm not justifying either.  But generalizations have and always will bother and upset me (Cycle you KNOW) and I'm going to speak out against them.  And I'm always going to look for both sides and real solutions.  Not let us criminalize this side or that.  But what can we really do to improve them. 

And education and training will always be part of that.

  But the reactions wouldn't have even happened in the first place if the policeman had treated her fairly. You need to be careful when you say things like that, because it sounds like you are trying to equate the mistreatment and possible murder of a black woman to some hyperbolic rhetoric in response, which I'm sure you aren't. Not to mention people may be having such overreactions because of how familiar this narrative is and reasonable reactions to police brutality and misuse of authority aren't really having any effect.

Online Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1517 on: July 23, 2015, 03:56:49 AM »
Can I just say, to balance the scales a bit, that for every terrible thing the police does which ends up on the internet, they do a small dozen good things that never make it to the internet.

It's still a problem which has to be solved by I'm pretty sure that most cops are not like this and really are out to 'serve and protect'. That just never makes it to the internet because that is boring.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1518 on: July 23, 2015, 04:43:24 AM »
Can I just say, to balance the scales a bit, that for every terrible thing the police does which ends up on the internet, they do a small dozen good things that never make it to the internet.

It's still a problem which has to be solved by I'm pretty sure that most cops are not like this and really are out to 'serve and protect'. That just never makes it to the internet because that is boring.

  Also because its their job, and there's only so much recognition people deserve for doing their job and not abusing their power, even if their job is harder, more dangerous and more important than the average person's.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1519 on: July 23, 2015, 04:55:04 AM »
Can I just say, to balance the scales a bit, that for every terrible thing the police does which ends up on the internet, they do a small dozen good things that never make it to the internet.

It's still a problem which has to be solved by I'm pretty sure that most cops are not like this and really are out to 'serve and protect'. That just never makes it to the internet because that is boring.
Very true. And yet ... comparing the US and Germany I still feel that (even taking the larger population of the USA into account) stories of police brutality and unprofessionalism are far more common to the States than my country. Now there may be numerous factor contributing to that, but there is one I am wondering about a lot, and that is the training of police forces in the US.

How uniform are police training standards in the US? How much can, and do, state, county, city, and other forces differ when it comes to standards in recruitment and training? How easy - or difficult - is it to be handed a badge, a uniform, and a gun in the United States?

Online Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1520 on: July 23, 2015, 05:26:30 AM »
Very true. And yet ... comparing the US and Germany I still feel that (even taking the larger population of the USA into account) stories of police brutality and unprofessionalism are far more common to the States than my country. Now there may be numerous factor contributing to that, but there is one I am wondering about a lot, and that is the training of police forces in the US.

How uniform are police training standards in the US? How much can, and do, state, county, city, and other forces differ when it comes to standards in recruitment and training? How easy - or difficult - is it to be handed a badge, a uniform, and a gun in the United States?

I think that goes for anywhere in Europe. I think there is stricter laws on what the police is allowed to do and what not.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1521 on: July 23, 2015, 06:11:56 AM »
In another attempt to prove their dickish length, ISIL are throwing gay men off high buildings to their deaths. If they don't die on impact, they are stoned to death by a crowd in the street. I just caught an interview with a man who would have been killed in this ghastly way if he had not escaped to Lebanon, on the BBC.

 >:(

Online Vekseid

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1522 on: July 23, 2015, 06:31:08 AM »
I think that goes for anywhere in Europe. I think there is stricter laws on what the police is allowed to do and what not.

It's starting to happen in the US. Police have surprisingly little political power, or media influence. Compared to private prisons which have enormous political pull, in part because they're owned by the same people who own large stakes in major media conglomerates.

And they like to promote a certain image for their chosen role models.

Slavery is alive and well in the United States. It looks a lot like the old slavery.

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1523 on: July 23, 2015, 09:02:54 AM »
Ha...

Why do I even put in my two cents?

Stuck up or not, he had no fucking right.

That's the thing... nobody is arguing that he had a right to do that.
I think that's why it's not getting any large number of posts to that effect, if they are guilty, and it looks like the court will find them so, then there is nothing to argue because everyone agrees it was wrong.

thus the conversation moved on to "why jackasses like these give cops a bad name, and why does it gets carried and perpetuated by media so quickly"

The answer is of course the same reason as the selective coverage of rodney king that was shown constantly before the LA riots erupted, ratings...

for those who need a history lesson
this was in 1992, I was 3/4 at the time: From the entire video at the end of a high speed chase Rodney King began fleeing from his car on foot as the officers approached, they then chased him down and beat him, making no attempt to cuff or restrain him. This running away at the end of the high speed chase along with Rodney's criminal record were used by the defense to cast doubt on Rodney and tear the prosecution's case to pieces.
The officers were acquitted by a mostly white jury and tried outside city limits in an area with a lot of retired cops. It wasn't hard for people in LA to jump to some convincing conclusions (which are unproven, but very likely correct) about the jury's biases.
Riots ensued that destroyed a large segment of southern LA as long simmering tensions between communities and outrage over the not guilty verdict exploded.
This situation was made infinitely worse by local media outlets cutting out various segments of the tape such as King fleeing, and failing to even the high speed chase that lead up to the events, and showing only the beating over and over and over in 24 hour coverage leading up to the trial, and during the trial because they were not allowed to film inside the court room.

After the fires died down, and the communities were rebuilt, the LAPD had to answer for a lot and the officers were retried for human rights violations. Two were found guilty, two were acquitted.
Epilogue:
Rodney was proven via blood-test to not have been on drugs as the officers had said, therefore he did not violate his parole and did not go to prison. He was awarded $3.8 million in damages, which he invested in creating his own pizza place, and when that didn't work out started King Constructions which is operated by his son in LA to this day. He rarely discussed the incident and preferred to stay out of the spotlight until his death.
South LA had a hard time finding investors to rebuild it's economy and still bares some scars to this day, but is a much better place to live in 2015 than it was in 1992. The crime and racial tensions between people and police alike have both decreased greatly, but poverty remains a problem.
LAPD's CRASH unit which was very unpopular with the African american and Latino communities within LA was also proven widely corrupt during federal investigations, and was then completely Disbanded in 1999 after the Rampart scandal, and while attempts to revive the anti-gang unit do exist, it's not very popular due to the unit's history as a stain on the LAPD badge.

Online LisztesFerenc

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1524 on: July 23, 2015, 09:17:14 AM »
That's the thing... nobody is arguing that he had a right to do that.
I think that's why it's not getting any large number of posts to that effect, if they are guilty, and it looks like the court will find them so, then there is nothing to argue because everyone agrees it was wrong.

thus the conversation moved on to "why jackasses like these give cops a bad name, and why does it gets carried and perpetuated by media so quickly"

The answer is of course the same reason as the selective coverage of rodney king that was shown constantly before the LA riots erupted, ratings...

  Its a bit more complicated than that. The Ferguson report found racism was method of operation for the police force, and Civil Forfeiture is also widespread enough that it cannot be dismissed as a couple of jackass cops. Cops serve a vital function in any civilized country, but if people think the only reason people mistrust or dislike them is a few bad apples spoiling the whole barrel, they need to re-examine the situation.