You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 08, 2016, 06:13:47 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 174656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Caehlim

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #150 on: November 15, 2014, 07:29:47 PM »
I was on an interview panel most of last week and wore a skirt and demure top instead of rocking up in my Tigger onesie.

I really do wish that we lived in a society where you could rock up to an interview panel in a Tigger onesie. Of course an outfit that can cause offense is a different issue.

I'm not actually certain what was offensive about the shirt. All of the news articles seemed to talk around the point and the photos of the shirt weren't detailed enough for me to see what they were talking about.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #151 on: November 15, 2014, 07:58:51 PM »
I really do wish that we lived in a society where you could rock up to an interview panel in a Tigger onesie. Of course an outfit that can cause offense is a different issue.

I'm not actually certain what was offensive about the shirt. All of the news articles seemed to talk around the point and the photos of the shirt weren't detailed enough for me to see what they were talking about.

Found this pic on the Daily Mail (yeah, I know.)

Actually not that horrible

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #152 on: November 15, 2014, 08:19:42 PM »
Perhaps an issue for its own thread, but I think you're missing the point there.  First, people are always judged for how they dress.  I was on an interview panel most of last week and wore a skirt and demure top instead of rocking up in my Tigger onesie.  There are appropriate and inappropriate ways of dressing and those depend on the context.  This guy clearly came from a context where shirts like that were so incredibly unremarkable that on a day he knew full well he'd be on international television he wore that shirt.  That, I think, does say something about the environment he works in, and its a conversation worth having.

But the conversation isn't about whether casual dress is appropriate in the workplace... it's about how the shirt (supposedly) "stops women from entering certain scientific fields" and how it's "one small step for man, three steps back for humankind". No-one objected to him wearing a hoodie during his apology or Kathrin Altwegg for her wide selection of brightly coloured striped tops. Hell, no-one objected to him wearing another Hawaiian/Aloha shirt during a previous media briefing


Being alert to the factors that create a hostile work environment is nowhere near the same as being a "delicate little flower"

If the argument is that women are prevented from entering the scientific fields because a scientist wore a shirt they didn't like I'd very much argue that it's suggesting women are "delicate little flowers". If one argues that a girl with a genuine interest and want to have a career in a STEM discipline but doesn't because in a brief interview one scientist wore a shirt I'd quite happily say that's suggesting they're a delicate little flower.

and a great number of women are interested in fashion and clothing - myself included - and being so is in no way a betrayal of the sisterhood for the simple and presumably obvious reason that its entirely possible to be interested in that AND interested in other shit.

And I wouldn't disagree at all.

But if pretty much all the feminist coverage of the Rosetta landings is about clothing choices rather than say the role and importance of women within the project, their world leading work etc etc (again, I'm yet to see Kathrin Altwegg TED talk get given much coverage) then it clearly paints the image that what women are interested in is the clothing, not the science. And that's an image I'd assume we'd all want to get away from.

I'm not actually certain what was offensive about the shirt. All of the news articles seemed to talk around the point and the photos of the shirt weren't detailed enough for me to see what they were talking about

It's a sort of "Girls with Guns"/Action Girl shirt; there's a closeup here and the website one can purchase it from here.

Offline Caehlim

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #153 on: November 15, 2014, 09:02:55 PM »
Found this pic on the Daily Mail (yeah, I know.)

Actually not that horrible
It's a sort of "Girls with Guns"/Action Girl shirt; there's a closeup here and the website one can purchase it from here.

I have nearly identical artwork on half the science fiction books in my collection. While I agree that there are very problematic issues with how women are represented in this sort of artwork, this is still an ongoing discussion and an issue across all media. Targeting this one person to the extent of bringing them to tears, as though they should have known better when this is a common representation of women across the world, seems needlessly personal and cruel.

Personally I would be happy to use this as an example of "what not to wear" or for addressing these issues, but I wouldn't want to focus my criticism on him. To me the problem seems much broader than that.

Why am I not surprised as well that the shirt is currently sold out? At least this controversy is free advertising for Aloha Land.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #154 on: November 15, 2014, 09:09:22 PM »
When I was working tech support, the definition of 'work appropriate' was 'does not constitute flashing' and 'has been washed semi-recently.'  Oh, and 'does not advertise competitor.'

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #155 on: November 16, 2014, 03:17:53 AM »
But the conversation isn't about whether casual dress is appropriate in the workplace... it's about how the shirt (supposedly) "stops women from entering certain scientific fields" and how it's "one small step for man, three steps back for humankind". No-one objected to him wearing a hoodie during his apology or Kathrin Altwegg for her wide selection of brightly coloured striped tops. Hell, no-one objected to him wearing another Hawaiian/Aloha shirt during a previous media briefing


Sorry, that wasn't quite my point.  "Casual" clothing in a workplace is fine and dandy if it fits the context of the workplace, thats not my issue.  My issue is that he obviously turned up for work that day, a day he knew he would be on TV, in that shirt and noone looked horrified at him and said "What the holy fuck do you think you're playing at".  Because shirts like that are an accepted part of his workplace, just as noone stares at me and goes "what on earth are you wearing" when I show up in a skirt and blouse.  It's clothing that doesn't raise an eyebrow in that context, my Tigger onesie is fine at Winnie The Pooh land.

Long story short, he works in an environment where things like that are unremarkable.  That's not OK, and people are right to point that out.  I do feel they pointed it out more...strenuously?  than was strictly needed, but "the complaint was disproportionate" is not the same as "there is nothing to complain about"

Offline Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #156 on: November 16, 2014, 12:54:05 PM »
Nigerian army liberates town of Chibok from insurgent Boko Haram forces.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nigerian-army-says-it-has-regained-town-of-chibok/ar-BBe61Pq?ocid=HPCDHP


Good job boys.  :-)

Kick those slaver scum into the next century.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #157 on: November 16, 2014, 10:50:09 PM »
The next pitch towards U.S. government shutdown??

"Oh no, not again!"  >:(

Offline Caehlim

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #158 on: November 16, 2014, 11:12:58 PM »
The next pitch towards U.S. government shutdown??

"Oh no, not again!"  >:(

You folks really need to get the glitch that lets that happen fixed.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #159 on: November 16, 2014, 11:15:39 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems to be hinging on the fact that somewhere along the line, 'compromise' became a mortal sin in politics.

Offline Caehlim

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #160 on: November 16, 2014, 11:20:05 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems to be hinging on the fact that somewhere along the line, 'compromise' became a mortal sin in politics.

If it happens in Australia, our constitution says to fire the entire government and run a new election. Gives them a good reason to cooperate.

Offline Lustful Bride

  • "Logic is for Squares."
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Gender: Female
  • This is some personal text. There are many like it, but this one is mine!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #161 on: November 16, 2014, 11:21:06 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems to be hinging on the fact that somewhere along the line, 'compromise' became a mortal sin in politics.

Aint that the damn truth.  :-(

Compromise, intelligence, common sense and common good are all sinful words that politicians don't want to use anymore.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #162 on: November 16, 2014, 11:28:01 PM »
If it happens in Australia, our constitution says to fire the entire government and run a new election. Gives them a good reason to cooperate.

I rather like that idea.  However the career politicians would never let it get off the Congressional floor.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #163 on: November 16, 2014, 11:37:06 PM »
If it happens in Australia, our constitution says to fire the entire government and run a new election. Gives them a good reason to cooperate.

I like the idea of telling the government "U R fired for incompetence and for not making an effort!" - hope one wouldn't get to have to pay their exit fees and "parachutes" though...  ;) (paying several millions to someone who has f**ked up on the job so gravely they had to be fired, just because "it's in their written deal", is extremely offensive in my eyes)

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #164 on: November 17, 2014, 06:57:07 PM »
Sorry, that wasn't quite my point.  "Casual" clothing in a workplace is fine and dandy if it fits the context of the workplace, thats not my issue.  My issue is that he obviously turned up for work that day, a day he knew he would be on TV, in that shirt and noone looked horrified at him and said "What the holy fuck do you think you're playing at".  Because shirts like that are an accepted part of his workplace, just as noone stares at me and goes "what on earth are you wearing" when I show up in a skirt and blouse.  It's clothing that doesn't raise an eyebrow in that context, my Tigger onesie is fine at Winnie The Pooh land.

Long story short, he works in an environment where things like that are unremarkable.  That's not OK, and people are right to point that out.  I do feel they pointed it out more...strenuously?  than was strictly needed, but "the complaint was disproportionate" is not the same as "there is nothing to complain about"

So what's not OK about it?

As far as I can tell the argument is that because of him wearing the shirt young women who were interested in the STEM subjects in general and space physics in particular are no longer going to be interested. On account of the shirt.

But what's that on his face? A beard? As we know beards are sexist and, when worn by a white man, racist as well. Yet he works in an environment where having such a beard is unremarkable. By the same logic that's seemingly putting off women.

And what's under his shirt? A tattoo? A whole arm sleeve? As we know some religions (notably certain Christians and followers of Judaism who take a view on Leviticus 19:28) consider tattoos a sin and the stricter ones can see it as a sort of blasphemy. Yet he worked at an office where it was apparently fine to have tattoos... and not just a small, inconspicuous one which can be easily covered up but a whole sleeve. And then to wear short-sleeved tops that put it on display. And worse to then go on TV with it! As we know those with faith in a religion and/or higher power are massively underrepresented in science compared to in the general public in the US as things stand... especially Christians. Isn't this public flaunting of tattoo's making the environment hostile for them?

Offline Caehlim

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #165 on: November 17, 2014, 07:43:27 PM »
As far as I can tell the argument is that because of him wearing the shirt young women who were interested in the STEM subjects in general and space physics in particular are no longer going to be interested. On account of the shirt.

You seem to be missing the point that Kythia has made that the shirt, in and of itself, is not the point but rather that an environment in which such shirts are seen as acceptable may overall influence people's decision.

Whether this argument is correct or not, your summation of her argument is different from the argument that she is making which risks becoming a strawman.

Quote
But what's that on his face? A beard? As we know beards are sexist and, when worn by a white man, racist as well. Yet he works in an environment where having such a beard is unremarkable. By the same logic that's seemingly putting off women.

The source you cite does not establish a solid enough argument to demonstrate that wearing a beard is sexist or racist.

Quote
And what's under his shirt? A tattoo? A whole arm sleeve? As we know some religions (notably certain Christians and followers of Judaism who take a view on Leviticus 19:28) consider tattoos a sin and the stricter ones can see it as a sort of blasphemy. Yet he worked at an office where it was apparently fine to have tattoos... and not just a small, inconspicuous one which can be easily covered up but a whole sleeve. And then to wear short-sleeved tops that put it on display. And worse to then go on TV with it! As we know those with faith in a religion and/or higher power are massively underrepresented in science compared to in the general public in the US as things stand... especially Christians. Isn't this public flaunting of tattoo's making the environment hostile for them?

Firstly the prevalent view of contemporary Judaism is that only Jews are expected to follow the Halakha and that Gentiles are only required to follow the seven Noahide laws.

But more importantly people belonging to a faith in a multicultural society should not expect others who do not belong to their faith to display their signs of faith. Much as a man is not required to wear a Yarmulke to conform to Jewish cultural attire or a woman is not required to wear a Niqab to conform to certain interpretations of Islamic cultural attire.

Offline Deamonbane

  • A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: The world would be a sadder place without stories.
  • Gender: Male
  • Make me smile...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #166 on: November 18, 2014, 08:58:52 AM »
Ummm local DJ is shot nine times, owner of a car wash is going to jail for not paying taxes, a politician adopts his fourth child, some trophy wife is divorcing her hubby, and hey, what's happening in the local soap opera...

The news here is about as ridiculous as the politics...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #167 on: November 18, 2014, 02:25:20 PM »
consortium11 - not sure this is the tread for an extended discussion.  Happy to address elsewhere if you want to talk about it or to agree to disagree.

OT: Meant to post this yesterday, but Church of England finally allows women Bishops!  And there was much rejoicing.




Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #168 on: November 18, 2014, 02:26:24 PM »
You seem to be missing the point that Kythia has made that the shirt, in and of itself, is not the point but rather that an environment in which such shirts are seen as acceptable may overall influence people's decision.

Whether this argument is correct or not, your summation of her argument is different from the argument that she is making which risks becoming a strawman.

1) Source or evidence that an environment where such shirts are seen as acceptable will stop women from being interested in any form of STEM subject and Matt Taylor's area of expertise in particular?

2) Let's say that there is a reputable source for the above and an environment where such a shirt is seen as being acceptable exists and does put women off being interested in studying these areas and having a career in them. Now say Matt Taylor doesn't wear that shirt and instead wears something else. The environment still exists and women are still being put off... but would anyone be discussing it?

It's about the shirt. If he hadn't worn the shirt it wouldn't be news.

The source you cite does not establish a solid enough argument to demonstrate that wearing a beard is sexist or racist.

It doesn't have to demonstrate that something is sexist and racist. It simply has to demonstrate that some people think it's sexist and/or racist and thus would be put off from studying or working in an environment where such things are acceptable. I'd also note the people have long talked about the racist and sexist history of beards and that each November articles like this appear which say that growing a mustache "assumes privilege and a certain relation to class on behalf of the participant, which is only found in certain parts of the world" and growing a mustache in November is one of many "inherent micro-aggressions (interactions between people of different races, genders, sexualities, and cultures that represent small acts of non-physical violence) and discrimination that campaigns like Movember help perpetuate, whether directly or indirectly."

Firstly the prevalent view of contemporary Judaism is that only Jews are expected to follow the Halakha and that Gentiles are only required to follow the seven Noahide laws.

If we're using a "prevelant view" test, then is the prevalent view among women interested in STEM fields that the shirt makes them not want to continue being interested in STEM fields or have a job in them?

But more importantly people belonging to a faith in a multicultural society should not expect others who do not belong to their faith to display their signs of faith. Much as a man is not required to wear a Yarmulke to conform to Jewish cultural attire or a woman is not required to wear a Niqab to conform to certain interpretations of Islamic cultural attire.

So as part of being a multicultural society is accepting that one should not expect others to confirm to your own world view, beliefs or standards even if you find their failure to do so insulting?

Such as someone who wears a certain Aloha shirt?

Offline Caehlim

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #169 on: November 18, 2014, 03:42:40 PM »
We should probably continue this discussion in its own thread if it's going to go on any longer.

1) Source or evidence that an environment where such shirts are seen as acceptable will stop women from being interested in any form of STEM subject and Matt Taylor's area of expertise in particular?

This is a very good question but I'm not discussing or debating that point, just identifying that you may have inadvertently misrepresented Kythia's argument in your previous post. Honestly I don't know for sure whether it does or not and I would need to see some statistics or studies myself to know whether that is the case.

Quote
2) Let's say that there is a reputable source for the above and an environment where such a shirt is seen as being acceptable exists and does put women off being interested in studying these areas and having a career in them. Now say Matt Taylor doesn't wear that shirt and instead wears something else. The environment still exists and women are still being put off... but would anyone be discussing it?

Yes, environments being made hostile is a frequent topic of feminist discourse. You're presumably only noticing this one because it is now intersecting with astronomy and a global media event. (which to be honest, is probably the reason these comments on his shirt were made. Politically savvy to be sure, but not really fair on him).

Quote
It doesn't have to demonstrate that something is sexist and racist. It simply has to demonstrate that some people think it's sexist and/or racist and thus would be put off from studying or working in an environment where such things are acceptable.

*shrug* it's really not that simple, at least for me. If a person is discouraged from a field due to inaccurate perceptions, then education and delivering a message is the correct response rather than asking people to change their behaviour due to the incorrect beliefs of others.

Quote
I'd also note the people have long talked about the racist and sexist history of beards and that each November articles like this appear which say that growing a mustache "assumes privilege and a certain relation to class on behalf of the participant, which is only found in certain parts of the world" and growing a mustache in November is one of many "inherent micro-aggressions (interactions between people of different races, genders, sexualities, and cultures that represent small acts of non-physical violence) and discrimination that campaigns like Movember help perpetuate, whether directly or indirectly."

I think they're wrong, but since I assume (from your previous comments) you also think that they're wrong, I'm not sure what a discussion of this between the two of us would achieve.

Quote
If we're using a "prevelant view" test, then is the prevalent view among women interested in STEM fields that the shirt makes them not want to continue being interested in STEM fields or have a job in them?

Should we be using the same discussion parameters for comparative theology and gender studies?

Given that theology studies peoples beliefs on metaphysics, which diverge wildly, looking at prevalent views of adherents to particular faiths is really the only possible method.

Gender studies is discussing real world issues and thus statistics and demonstrated cause and effect are of far more utility.

Quote
So as part of being a multicultural society is accepting that one should not expect others to confirm to your own world view, beliefs or standards even if you find their failure to do so insulting?

There are some complexities to this, but basically yes.

Quote
Such as someone who wears a certain Aloha shirt?

As above, basically yes.

Offline Steampunkette

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #170 on: November 19, 2014, 06:14:36 AM »
Consortium: Microaggressions.

Microaggressions are tiny little things that individually don't mean much. But the more and more microaggressions you pile on the harder they become to ignore. Eventually it gets to the point where you can't take it any more and something has to change.

Have you ever worked at a job where they explicitly try to get you to quit without outright firing you? First they make you work on the shift where no one likes you. Your job description gets stretched to cover work that no one likes to do but has to be done and is generally shared. Then your schedule gets changed to work odd hours, sometimes working 2 shifts back to back, other times coming in for work 4 times in a day for 2 hours per segment with a deadline coming up and a checklist you have to run through that makes it nearly impossible to get any work done before you're kicked off the clock because they're not able to pay you for overtime.

Eventually you just quit. It's easier than putting up with that bullshit, even though any one of those details is perfectly understandable and explainable as a unique event.

That is the kind of thing the shirt represents. A tiny, niggling, easily dismissed item that, when combined with a larger quantity of microaggressions, goes from being someone bumping into your foot on the bus to someone stepping on your foot constantly.

Often, like Mr. Taylor, the perpetrator doesn't realize they've done anything wrong. It's so irrelevant from their perspective as to appear meaningless.

The Theory of Microaggression has been around since the early 70s and has been pretty thoroughly researched in the past 40+ years. And the best description of it has always been the same: Water Torture.

Tiny drops of water that can't really hurt you, but they keep coming and you can't escape, you can't avoid them, you can't predict them, they just keep coming and coming and coming while you're forced to endure it because everyone standing around the table doesn't know what the fuss is about: It's just a little drop of water.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #171 on: November 19, 2014, 10:15:15 AM »
I understand microaggressions, but I'm not sure this shirt counts as one. I don't know, it's just... a shirt with some sexy women. Is this really that offensive?

In other news...

Right now, we have a bit of crisis going on in Poland... Basically, we had elections on Sunday, right? Local government elections, to be specific: mayors, city councils etc. And... the governmental institution that processes election results screwed up big time: their new IT system for counting votes turned out to be a complete failure. It's just... not working properly. So, the votes need to be counted manually and it looks like we'll be getting the results the next week, or so. Chaos!

In another news, I read an analysis today that indicated that an open war between Ukraine and Russia war might be inevitable. Scary perspective...

Offline Slywyn

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #172 on: November 19, 2014, 10:30:18 AM »
I understand microaggressions, but I'm not sure this shirt counts as one. I don't know, it's just... a shirt with some sexy women. Is this really that offensive?

I don't want to be insulting or anything, but if you understood microaggressions you wouldn't be confused about the shirt or asking this question.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #173 on: November 19, 2014, 10:34:59 AM »
Eventually you just quit. It's easier than putting up with that bullshit, even though any one of those details is perfectly understandable and explainable as a unique event.

That is the kind of thing the shirt represents. A tiny, niggling, easily dismissed item that, when combined with a larger quantity of microaggressions, goes from being someone bumping into your foot on the bus to someone stepping on your foot constantly.

Often, like Mr. Taylor, the perpetrator doesn't realize they've done anything wrong. It's so irrelevant from their perspective as to appear meaningless.
The problem I see with your analogy is the messure of redress an offended party has. If your boss assigns you to a bad shift and slowly makes life hell for you in order to quit, you may not have many options. But if any of Mr. Taylor's colleagues thought his shirt offensive they could have mentioned it to him and talked about it with him. The question therefore becomes if anyone in his workplace saw his choice of shirts as a probelm, talked about it with him, and what his reaction to such a hypothetical conversation might have been.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #174 on: November 19, 2014, 10:43:45 AM »
I don't want to be insulting or anything, but if you understood microaggressions you wouldn't be confused about the shirt or asking this question.

Then explain things to me. It's a shirt with sexy women. So? Half of the people on E have avis with sexy women...

BTW. Maybe we really should make a separate thread about all this...