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Author Topic: What's in the news?  (Read 175838 times)

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Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1400 on: July 06, 2015, 03:40:32 AM »
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/05/man-carrying-isis-flag-near-parliament-not-arrested-police-criticised

A man carrying a child and an IS flag was NOT arrested because 'Wearing, carrying or displaying of an emblem or flag, by itself, is not an offence unless the way in which, or the circumstance in which, the emblem is worn, carried or displayed is such as to cause reasonable suspicion that the person is a supporter or member of a proscribed organisation.'

This comes a week after the shooting in Tunisia, which killed 30 British.

I'm sorry but this man should have been arrested and deported. If you symphatize with an organisation like IS, you are not worth living and you should be arrested and locked up for the rest of your life. Or just publicly executed like IS does to people who oppose them.

I'm beginning to wonder more and more if the British police/government have any sort of spine at all. It's all a bit weak and soft. Had this happened in the US or Russia, the guy would have been put to prison for life, or shot by officers because he posed a threat to them. People have been in shot by cops in the US for less after all.

I'm baffled.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1401 on: July 06, 2015, 03:52:58 AM »

Wow, what a coward. He basically hid behind that child.

We have freedom of speech in the US, so he would not have been arrested for that, but if he did that in the right neighborhood, that child would have been lifted off of him and he would have gotten a very memorable beating. I have to wonder if in the US that child would have been taken away from him as his action basically put that child's well being at risk.


Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1402 on: July 06, 2015, 03:56:06 AM »
Hi, as a British policemen, I'll challenge and defend the actions of the police in this matter.

The man was carrying a flag.  That's it.  Nothing more, nothing less.  No bomb, no gun, nothing more offensive than a flag and a small child. 

The day that it is a crime to carry a flag in the streets of London is the day I resign.

If you prefer to live in a country where you can be arrested for expressing your political views, I suggest you move to one.  The moment we start arresting and deporting people for expressing their opinions, is the moment we start down a very slippery slope.  Where do we stop?  You're carrying an ISIS flag - you're out.  You're carrying a Nazi flag - you're out.  You're carrying a North Korean flag - you're out.  You're carrying a Russian flag - you're out.  You're carrying an anti-fracking flag - you're out.  You're carrying a flag stating that you dislike the government - you're out.  You're protesting against austerity cuts - you're out.

If you want to live in a police state - fine.  Give me the power to arrest and deport everyone who the government would like to see the back of, and I'll do it.   Granted, it would relieve the country of Russell Brand, but it would also mean that large numbers of perfectly innocent people would be leaving the country.

In the end, he was carrying a flag.  It doesn't matter what the flag stands for.  It is our protected right in this country to be able to say what we think.  That's why you are allowed to complain about this man, and I am allowed to respond.  Do I think the flag stands for a vile, violent, disgusting group of people? Of course I do.  Do I hate the thought of seeing someone walking down the street wearing it?  Hell, yes.  Would I be disturbed by the sight of it?  Of course I would.  But will I fight for the man's right to express himself - damn right I will.  Human rights are for all of us- not just for people we like or when it's convenient.

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1403 on: July 06, 2015, 04:02:03 AM »
Hi, as a British policemen, I'll challenge and defend the actions of the police in this matter.

The man was carrying a flag.  That's it.  Nothing more, nothing less.  No bomb, no gun, nothing more offensive than a flag and a small child. 

The day that it is a crime to carry a flag in the streets of London is the day I resign.

If you prefer to live in a country where you can be arrested for expressing your political views, I suggest you move to one.  The moment we start arresting and deporting people for expressing their opinions, is the moment we start down a very slippery slope.  Where do we stop?  You're carrying an ISIS flag - you're out.  You're carrying a Nazi flag - you're out.  You're carrying a North Korean flag - you're out.  You're carrying a Russian flag - you're out.  You're carrying an anti-fracking flag - you're out.  You're carrying a flag stating that you dislike the government - you're out.  You're protesting against austerity cuts - you're out.

If you want to live in a police state - fine.  Give me the power to arrest and deport everyone who the government would like to see the back of, and I'll do it.   Granted, it would relieve the country of Russell Brand, but it would also mean that large numbers of perfectly innocent people would be leaving the country.

In the end, he was carrying a flag.  It doesn't matter what the flag stands for.  It is our protected right in this country to be able to say what we think.  That's why you are allowed to complain about this man, and I am allowed to respond.  Do I think the flag stands for a vile, violent, disgusting group of people? Of course I do.  Do I hate the thought of seeing someone walking down the street wearing it?  Hell, yes.  Would I be disturbed by the sight of it?  Of course I would.  But will I fight for the man's right to express himself - damn right I will.  Human rights are for all of us- not just for people we like or when it's convenient.


It's not the flag that is the problem.

Quote
unless the way in which, or the circumstance in which, the emblem is worn, carried or displayed is such as to cause reasonable suspicion that the person is a supporter or member of a proscribed organisation

Apparently IS is NOT a proscribed organization. THAT is what worries me.

I'm pretty sure that if I carry a nazi flag around London making the nazi salute, I'll be arrested. But carrying an IS flag around the capital of London is perfectly fine? Openly supporting a group of apes that rape, plunder and execute as they wish should NOT be allowed and I wonder when the government puts IS on that proscribed organisation lists.


As for Russel Brand... be my guest :)

Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1404 on: July 06, 2015, 04:06:47 AM »


I'm pretty sure that if I carry a nazi flag around London making the nazi salute, I'll be arrested. But carrying an IS flag around the capital of London is perfectly fine? Openly supporting a group of apes that rape, plunder and execute as they wish should NOT be allowed and I wonder when the government puts IS on that proscribed organisation lists.




Actually, you wouldn't.  EDL marches, skinheads and all sorts of other people both carry Nazi symbols either as tattoos or decorations on clothing & flags.  You would not be arrested for doing what you suggest. 

Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1405 on: July 06, 2015, 04:13:00 AM »
There is one more point, by the way.

Do you not think that being arrested is EXACTLY what he wanted?

How well would it play with the police arresting a man, having to drag his screaming child away from him with the Houses of Parliament in the background?

That would have made a lovely Youtube clip.

Online Cassandra LeMay

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1406 on: July 06, 2015, 04:38:08 AM »
Apparently IS is NOT a proscribed organization. THAT is what worries me.
Actually it is: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417888/Proscription-20150327.pdf

One problem we might be facing here is that the legal definition of "supporter" may be different from what our personal or dictionary definition might provide. Simply carrying a flag doesn't necessarily equate to "giving assistance to...", which, I believe, might be part of the legal definition of what is proscribed.


Hi, as a British policemen, I'll challenge and defend the actions of the police in this matter.

The man was carrying a flag.  That's it.  Nothing more, nothing less.  No bomb, no gun, nothing more offensive than a flag and a small child. 

The day that it is a crime to carry a flag in the streets of London is the day I resign.
What about the Terrorism Act, Section 13, 1(b)? As I understand that, resonable suspicion that carrying the emblem of a proscribed organization indicates the person doing it is a member or supporter of said organization can be grounds fro arrest. Carrying a flag can - as I understand it - be ground for arrest and lead to a prison sentence, but I could be misread it; I admit that I only did some cursory research on the topic.


All in all I think we don't know enough about the details of the case. What reasons did the man give for carrying the flag? What questions did the cops ask him and what answers did he give? Without knowing those details it's impossible to say if this behaviour was within the law or not.

Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1407 on: July 06, 2015, 05:09:00 AM »
Actually it is: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417888/Proscription-20150327.pdf

One problem we might be facing here is that the legal definition of "supporter" may be different from what our personal or dictionary definition might provide. Simply carrying a flag doesn't necessarily equate to "giving assistance to...", which, I believe, might be part of the legal definition of what is proscribed.

What about the Terrorism Act, Section 13, 1(b)? As I understand that, resonable suspicion that carrying the emblem of a proscribed organization indicates the person doing it is a member or supporter of said organization can be grounds fro arrest. Carrying a flag can - as I understand it - be ground for arrest and lead to a prison sentence, but I could be misread it; I admit that I only did some cursory research on the topic.


All in all I think we don't know enough about the details of the case. What reasons did the man give for carrying the flag? What questions did the cops ask him and what answers did he give? Without knowing those details it's impossible to say if this behaviour was within the law or not.

I checked the legislation and the problem, as you say, is the definition of supporter.  The man was clearly spoken to by police at the time, and a decision was made not to arrest.  He was clearly not causing any kind of disruption, he wasn't infringing any public order laws and (given the microscope being put on Stop & Search) he might not even have done enough to allow the attending officers to search him.

I have to say that I wouldn't want to be in  the position of arresting someone for carrying a flag when they are doing nothing else to support the offence.  And it would be made materially worse by the large number of people filming the proceedings. As I said, I feel that he wanted to be arrested. The film of that happening would then become part of their recruitment material

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1408 on: July 06, 2015, 09:01:46 AM »
There is one more point, by the way.

Do you not think that being arrested is EXACTLY what he wanted?

How well would it play with the police arresting a man, having to drag his screaming child away from him with the Houses of Parliament in the background?

That would have made a lovely Youtube clip.

I think you have a point there, why else would he be holding up his child like that?

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1409 on: July 06, 2015, 09:07:04 AM »
Arrest the kid as well? With a father supporting IS, the kid can't be much better in the future.

Joking aside, I still it's weird and wrong that it's allowed to openly support IS.

Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1410 on: July 06, 2015, 09:23:53 AM »
Arrest the kid as well? With a father supporting IS, the kid can't be much better in the future.

Joking aside, I still it's weird and wrong that it's allowed to openly support IS.

It's the classic no-win situation.  If he was arrested, we give ammunition to the recruiters who use it to state that we do not allow free speech.  If, as was happened, he isn't arrested we get hell from everyone who says he was.

Incidentally, I think the child was under the age of 10 - therefore not arrestable as legally not old enough to form the requisite mens rea to commit a crime.  So the child would have had to be taken into Social Service care -- and that opens up another can of worms!

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1411 on: July 06, 2015, 09:37:29 AM »
Incidentally, I think the child was under the age of 10

Based on size and body proportions, I'd say you're right.  I'd even fine-tune that estimate to somewhere between 4 and 8.  And with the child on his shoulders, executing an arrest immediately puts the child at the center.  The best possible scenario, with regard to child safety, would be if the law enforcement officer was able to talk the man into putting the child down.  Extracting the child from the man's hold would undoubtedly result in a screaming child (and hello YouTube), as would the subsequent cuffing of the man and taking the two of them off the street.  Worse, if the man were to make a break for it while still holding the child, there is the risk of a fall and injury.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1412 on: July 06, 2015, 09:55:58 AM »
Arrest the kid as well? With a father supporting IS, the kid can't be much better in the future.

Joking aside, I still it's weird and wrong that it's allowed to openly support IS.

Yep, at the very least I think people who travel to IS-controlled areas with a verifiable intention to support them (not: to look for trapped relatives or the like), or who are writing in support of them, online or in print, or giving them money, should be treated as the recruits and henchmen they are.

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1413 on: July 07, 2015, 08:52:31 AM »
On a more important note:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/top-gear-follow-up-jeremy-clarkson-6015274


Apparently the Big British Cunts gave all three a clause in their contract saying they could not host a car show on a UK channel for two years after they ended. That means ITV is off :(

Now they're stuck with Netflix.

Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1414 on: July 07, 2015, 08:53:54 AM »
On a more important note:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/top-gear-follow-up-jeremy-clarkson-6015274


Apparently the Big British Cunts gave all three a clause in their contract saying they could not host a car show on a UK channel for two years after they ended. That means ITV is off :(

Now they're stuck with Netflix.

Good.

I was more than tired of the Clarkson Ego Show anyway and let's not forget that he was fired for assaulting someone

Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1415 on: July 07, 2015, 09:21:08 AM »
He wasn't fired, his contract wasn't renewed and there has never been any proof and no charges were pressed.

Offline Darkleather

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1416 on: July 07, 2015, 11:09:25 AM »
He wasn't fired, his contract wasn't renewed and there has never been any proof and no charges were pressed.

Yes - and he was lucky they weren't.  He has fully admitted fault in the incident - probably because otherwise charges would have been pressed.  And not renewing a contract is pretty much the same as being fired!


Offline Dashenka

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1417 on: July 07, 2015, 11:16:00 AM »
Do me a favour.. whenever you see a white BMW i8 with a 15 plate, do not stop me. I don't think we'll get along very well if you do :)

Offline Lustful Bride

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1418 on: July 07, 2015, 12:53:21 PM »
Seems like some new of the Polio virus is back, and mutated to hide better. Its Causing paralysis in young children.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/childs-mysterious-paralysis-tied-to-new-virus/ar-AAcFelv?ocid=HPCDHP

Why cant these things just die out? It seems like no matter how advanced we get these illnesses come back stronger than ever.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 12:56:27 PM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1419 on: July 07, 2015, 02:32:00 PM »
Why cant these things just die out? It seems like no matter how advanced we get these illnesses come back stronger than ever.
I think lions thought the same thing after they killed a human that wasn't armed, only for another to come along with a spear or gun.

Hypothetically, of course. It's evolution. We forced the virus to evolve to survive by trying to erradicate it.

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1420 on: July 07, 2015, 05:56:52 PM »
Pretty sickening story that I wasn't aware of.

In short, a doctor deliberately misdiagnosed patients, telling them that they had aggressive forms of cancer, so that he could make money from their insurers. 

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1421 on: July 07, 2015, 06:00:54 PM »
Two Florida women shoplift $500 of groceries, and in the process of fleeing with their stolen food, abandon their underage children at the store and never come back for them.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-children-abandoned-publix-theft-kissimmee-20150630-story.html

Offline Blythe

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1422 on: July 07, 2015, 06:09:00 PM »
Pretty sickening story that I wasn't aware of.

In short, a doctor deliberately misdiagnosed patients, telling them that they had aggressive forms of cancer, so that he could make money from their insurers.

Over 550 victims of this man put through these unnecessary treatments, it looks like, according to some sources.

Over 550.

For me, the sheer horror of this is mind-boggling. I can't believe the story is not getting more coverage where I live.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 06:11:13 PM by Sherlock »

Offline Oniya

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Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1423 on: July 07, 2015, 06:40:06 PM »
Not only was some of it completely unnecessary - there was at least one case where he aggressively treated someone for lung cancer when they actually had a different Stage IV cancer.

Offline consortium11

Re: What's in the news?
« Reply #1424 on: July 07, 2015, 06:43:09 PM »
Over 550 victims of this man put through these unnecessary treatments, it looks like, according to some sources.

Over 550.

For me, the sheer horror of this is mind-boggling. I can't believe the story is not getting more coverage where I live.

The scale is utterly shocking. The UK had its own murderous doctor in Harold Shipman; I don't know if his name or the case ever made much news in the US but he officially murdered 218 people with the number most likely being closer to 250, primarily elderly women, by giving them lethal injections of diamorphine (basically heroin and, in somewhat of a link between the cases, normally used for pain relief in cases of terminal cancer. As far as I'm aware Fata didn't directly murder people in the way Shipman did and unlike Shipman people have (so far) survived his abuses but considering the fact that chemotherapy is basically the definition of a necessary evil, killing your body and immune system in the hope that the cancer dies before the rest of you and leave long term side effects that may contribute to death in time, it isn't that great a distinction. And as you say we're talking about 550 people here... twice as many as Shipman. Charles Cullen is generally regarded as the most prolific serial killer of the modern era in the US (and possibly the world)... and he is generally seen as having killed about 400.

I browse a couple of US news websites yet I never saw anything about this story. before today.