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Author Topic: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. Open... Again!]  (Read 2199 times)

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Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2014, 01:33:50 PM »
Mm. So that's kind of a massive and totally unanticipated downside. When you say "orders", the stuff about creative accomplishment indicates you can't just not follow those orders - you're saying that unique out of the PHB classes, Warlocks do not consistently have free will? That sounds pretty unpleasant as far as houserules go. Any chance to mitigate that?
Hmm, good point. :|

I'll just drop that for now, need to keep things kind of vanilla for now.

Warlocks don't make their pact until level three anyway, so it'll give me some time to figure our how it should work. It might not manifest itself mechanically but I don't think a pact should just be something saying, "Hey get these powers for nothing!" Each aspect of a pact (fiends, Old Ones, fairies) seems like it should be a deal with the devil kind of thing.

Let me read the Warlock section and see what the book suggests.

EDIT: Okay so from what I'm reading, it's not house-rules. The books says, "Work with your DM to define your relationship with your patron." You're somewhat beholden to them, though I probably won't ever have them revoke your powers or anything like that.

EDIT 2: Though I am thinking of house ruling that certain things are lost if um... "ignored" Ignore your Oath as a paladin you lose your oath spells, warlocks lose their pact boons (just that), druids loose spells for touching wood, but I'll hold off for now.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 01:49:55 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Rajah

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2014, 03:35:52 PM »
That works. My reading is that it's the same as the wizard studied somewhere (or just found a dusty old tome in the barn, whatever), the sorcerer is chosen by forces of bloodline or chaos, the monk has learned martial arts and the druid communes with the land - it's where you get your power from, but it's meant to be interesting rather than detrimental. More of a roleplaying thing than an actually-enslaved-by-demons thing.

"Fiend" is the 5e catch-all now for all three kinds of traditional D&D evil outsider: devils, demons, and yugoloths (the lesser-known Neutral Evil guys who I don't think anyone really used).

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2014, 04:11:20 PM »
Yeah warlocks get their power from the pact.

So I'm thinking that the favors are small in a big picture kind of way. The fiend won't ask you to steal souls, but it might make you give up that magical item you just got so that it (this is all of the top of my head) gets stolen by a thief later and burns down a church.

Total wild flail on that, but that's sort of the antagonistic vibe I get with your pact-master.
The book gives lots of recommendations for the relationship.

Offline Rajah

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2014, 04:52:36 PM »
Yeah warlocks get their power from the pact.

So I'm thinking that the favors are small in a big picture kind of way. The fiend won't ask you to steal souls, but it might make you give up that magical item you just got so that it (this is all of the top of my head) gets stolen by a thief later and burns down a church.

Total wild flail on that, but that's sort of the antagonistic vibe I get with your pact-master.
The book gives lots of recommendations for the relationship.

Including friendly or even romantic, and the possibility (re: Great Old Ones) that your "patron" doesn't even know you exist. I am all for the pact extant as an important aspect of the warlock's character in the same way that if the monk's martial arts background is "I guess I'm just good at punching" it would be pretty lame, but I am not so much for "warlocks will somehow play 'worse' than other classes," which things like giving up magical items trip the alarm bells for.

I guess the problem is specifically with the Fiend Pact; GOO aren't really implied (in the default setting) to have any particular agenda so it's up to the player/GM to create one, which could be anything from "inspire artistic creativity and kick off the Surrealist movement across the world" to "revive my ancient religion which doesn't involve human sacrifice or anything bad" to "revive my ancient religion which is ALL ABOUT human sacrifice" depending.  Fey run the full gamut from good to evil; you can be as easily tasked to promote love and cuddling in moonlit groves as to steal the literal bloodsoaked hearts of princes or to just send back reports Letter to Princess Celestia style of any new secrets you uncover.

Fiends are kinda inflexible...ish. There's some weird loopholes in their cosmology that let you go morally-ambiguous places with them, but that's default D&D cosmology and not yours specifically. Anyway, I think I'm going to go with Great Old One after all and just sidestep the issue.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2014, 04:57:38 PM »
Or it might not be a useful magical item. I'm not saying any of this is going to happen or that it's set in stone, and I certainly don't want to make one class mechanically/looty/magically hampered just because it's warlock, nor is a fiend master going to always get one over on his mortal bonded.

EDIT: Good news everybody!

I might actually be able to get the mer and buteo (half included) up and running. Since creatures get less in the ways of abilities I can probably get them up.

Swimming and flying are treated as separate speeds, with the simplification of movement it's actually really easy. I just need to figure out how far mer and buteos swim and fly respectively. Not as good as a great eagle or a shark. :)

EDIT 2: Really quickly done and looking for another eye on it:

Merfolk
•   Land speed 20ft, swim speed 40ft. (half in mediuml armor, can’t in heavy)
•   Medium creature
•   +2 to charisma
•   Water breathing
•   Proficiency in athletics
•   Low light vision
•   Weapon prof: Trident, net, crossbow, darts
•   Merfolk can sing and speak their own language underwater. Others who can understand it can hear it, but not speak it while underwater.


Half-Merfolk

•   Land Speed 30, swim 20ft (half in medium, can’t in heavy)
•   Medium character
•   Proficiency in survival
•   Low light vision
•   Weapon prof: Trident, net
•   +1 to charisma, +1 to attribute of choice.
•   Half-folk can speak their own language underwater etc.

Buteo

•   Land speed 20, flying 40ft (half in medium, can’t in heavy)
•   Medium creature
•   Low light vision
•   Prof: Perception
•   +2 dex
•   Weapon Prof: Hand axes, javelins, sickles, and halberds.

Half-buteo

•   Medium creature
•   Land speed 30ft
•   Proficient in two skills of choice
•   +1 dex and 1 point in another attribute of choice.
•   Advantage of athletic checks.
        Low-light vision
       Weapon Prof: Halberd, javelins, shortswords. 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 05:59:12 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Rajah

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2014, 06:25:47 PM »
Every race, with the exception of feat-variant Humans, gains at least a +3 total stat modifier (+2 primary, +1 secondary). Low-light vision has been across-the-board replaced with Darkvision 60 feet. All of these are really feature-light. Fly speeds are huge problems; the earliest passive fly speed is level 14, sorcerer. My stab at merfolk:

Ability Score Increase: +2 Charisma, +1 Dex
Speed: Walking (slithering) speed of 20 feet, swimming speed of 40 feet.
Amphibious: You can breathe water as well as air and have advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks to swim.
Cruel Charm: You know the friends cantrip.
Darkvision: You can see in the dark out to 60 feet.
Echolocation: You have blindsight out to 30 feet while immersed in water and can speak and hear Merfolk as easily as you can Common through air.
Merfolk Weapon Proficiency: Trident, net, crossbow, darts.
Sea's Grace: You have proficiency with Strength (Athletics) checks.
Languages: Merfolk and Common.

I weighted the water-specific benefits a little less than I would normal racial features because context.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2014, 06:51:31 PM »
Like I said they were quick and I always aim low so as not to be OP.

Merfolk

Ability Score Increase: +2 cha, +1 Con
Speed: Land 20ft. (they're bipedal but their feet aren't perfectly formed), swim 40ft.
Amphibious: You can breathe water as well as air and have advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks to swim.
Darkvision: You can see in the dark 60ft.
Echolocation: You have blindsight out to 30 feet while immersed in water and can speak and hear Merfolk as easily as you can Common through air.
Merfolk Weapon Proficiency: Trident, net,  light crossbow, darts.
Silver-tongued: Proficient in persuasion
Languages: Merfolk and Common

Half-Merfolk

Ability Score Increase: +1 cha, +1 in two other of your choice.
Land speed 30ft, swim 20ft.
Darkvision: You can see in the dark 60ft
Half-Mer Weapon Proficiency: Trident, net, hand axe, light crossbow
Child of Waves: Advantage in saving throws made against cold damage.
Natural-born Swimmer: Advantage in athletic checks to swim.
Languages: Merfolk and common.

Buteo:

+2 dex +1 int
Speed: 20ft walking, 30ft flying (Fly half in med armor, none in heavy) Buteos can only fly for one turn's worth of movement. They must land or risk falling. Landing costs no movement if there is a surface 5ft from you. (represents gliding into a wall or to a surface/perch) So if the flying zeros out they can glide.
Dark vision: See 60ft in in dark
Eagle-eyed: Proficient in perception.
Buteo Weapon proficency: Halberd, sickle, javelin, handaxe
Fearless Spirit: Advantage on saving throws against fear effects
Keen Sight: Advantage on perception checks (wis) that rely on sight.
Language: Buteo and common.

Half-buteo

Ability Score Increase: +1 dex, +1 int, 1 of choice.
Speed: 30ft
Dark Vision: You can see in the dark 60ft
Adaptable: 1 choice of proficiency
Natural Athlete: Advantage on athletic checks.
Fearless Spirit: Advantage against fear effects
Keen sight: Advantage on perception checks (wis) that rely on sight
Languages: Buteo and common.



My rational behind the flying is that it's half and 10 less than the great eagle (which beuto ride) and the magical flying has less realistic constraints and can be used with medium and heavy armor.






« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 08:41:25 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Florence

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2014, 07:00:40 PM »
I'm gonna stick with human for my rogue. Working on the fluff for them now.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2014, 07:22:44 PM »
I'm gonna stick with human for my rogue. Working on the fluff for them now.
Well this at the very least will help define them in the world. :)

I think they're pretty good actually though. The newest sets.

Offline Rajah

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2014, 07:28:15 PM »
Like I said they were quick and I always aim low so as not to be OP.

Merfolk

Ability Score Increase: +2 cha, +1 Con
Speed: Land 20ft. (they're bipedal but their feet aren't perfectly formed), swim 40ft.
Amphibious: You can breathe water as well as air and have advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks to swim.
Darkvision: You can see in the dark 60ft.
Echolocation: You have blindsight out to 30 feet while immersed in water and can speak and hear Merfolk as easily as you can Common through air.
Merfolk Weapon Proficiency: Trident, net,  light crossbow, darts.
Sea's Beauty: Advantage on persuasion checks
Languages: Merfolk and Common

Half-Merfolk

Ability Score Increase: +1 cha, +1 in two other of your choice.
Land speed 30ft, swim 20ft.
Darkvision: You can see in the dark 60ft
Half-Mer Weapon Proficiency: Trident, net, hand axe, light crossbow
Child of Waves: Advantage in saving throws made against cold.
Natural-born Swimmer: Advantage in athletic checks to swim.
Languages: Merfolk and common.

Advantage on Persuasion checks is actually much more powerful than friends; friends is a quick hey-sailor mind-affecting charm with a save and plenty of things that will be resistant (including 100% of elves and half-elves) or immune to it, and using it means immediate tactical decision-making because it's short duration and when it's up you're in trouble; I picked it to emulate the whole why-don't-you-climb-over-the-side-of-your-boat-so-I-can-eat-you vibe of merfolk and sirens. Advantage on Persuasion is a really big no-context bonus. Proficiency would be more reasonable if you hate friends.

High elves have darkvision, proficiency in Perception, proficiency with four weapons, advantage against one of two mind-affecting categories in 5e, immunity to sleep effects, a free cantrip of your choice, and trance.

Merfolk have darkvision, swim speed, proficiency with four weapons, blindsight underwater, amphibious, whatever you want to do with persuasion, and room for another feature and maybe a second extra "light" feature - trance is a "light" feature, but paying 10 feet of movement for contextual swimming makes that a bit light plus the context-sensitive advantage of two of your traits.

Half-merfolk look pretty good, although "advantage in saving throws made against cold" should read "resistance to cold damage." Compare/contrast Tieflings; Infernal Legacy is pretty solid and two half-merfolk traits are context-limited, which I think works out. I might have flipped them from full-blooded merfolk to be +2 Con, +1 Cha (also helps with breath-holding, maybe?) but I don't think making the bonus so oddly variable makes much difference. Unlike the merfolk, which would unquestionably dominate a nautical game (as has and will be the case, always, with anything aquatic) your swimming stuff doesn't come with water-breathing so you can have a little more flex in the rest of your kit.

I really don't know what to do with the hawk people. 3.5e had a long list of crummy ways to deal with flight speeds because they just...have so many issues. Sorcerers get permanent flying speeds at 14th level; fly is available for up to ten minutes and with concentration at 3rd level. Coupled with the inevitable Dexterity bonus to make them good at archery, it's endlessly problematic. Make it take a bonus action each round, require concentration like a spell, and they can't attack while airborne, but then why are they so crappy at flying compared to other winged humanoids, right? I don't know.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2014, 07:33:29 PM »
I'll change it to proficiency with persuasion.

In general with flying they want the DM to handle it. The difference between a buteo and a sorcerer is that sorcerer's are immune to weight issues. Plus sorcerers have a point to point flight they could fly up or down straight shafts. I could say that buteos can only fly in a space one size category larger or greater than that. 

EDIT: I've got it.

Buteo flight is one turn only. They have to land or risk plummeting. Buteos aren't long-distance fliers. They use griffons and giant eagles as mounts to cover long distances. So literally this flying represents thirty feet of hard flapping.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:44:59 PM by Inkidu »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2014, 09:08:53 AM »
Okay, so I at least think I have the merfolk and half-merfolk up and running.

At the very least it'll let you know how they'll fight and act in the setting. :)

Plus, you know this is sort of part of the fun of D&D. ;)

Offline Florence

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2014, 09:35:33 AM »
Okay, so I at least think I have the merfolk and half-merfolk up and running.

At the very least it'll let you know how they'll fight and act in the setting. :)

Plus, you know this is sort of part of the fun of D&D. ;)

Half-Merfolk is really tempting, but I'd already had a pretty solid concept of my rogue in mind xD

If I hadn't already committed myself to the rogue I would probably have made a half-merfolk pirate or something xD

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2014, 09:41:24 AM »
Half-Merfolk is really tempting, but I'd already had a pretty solid concept of my rogue in mind xD

If I hadn't already committed myself to the rogue I would probably have made a half-merfolk pirate or something xD
Oh no worries. I'm just glad they might make it into the game, if not as PCs. :)

Offline Laughing Hyena

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2014, 05:24:34 PM »
Still working on my sheet.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2014, 05:27:25 PM »
Still working on my sheet.
That's fine.

I'm trying to get some feedback, and converting 3.5 monsters to 5th ed monsters. XD

Offline Laughing Hyena

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2014, 05:43:28 PM »
Can you actually do that? You have the MM already?

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2014, 05:50:35 PM »
Can you actually do that? You have the MM already?
No no no, but unless you want to play versus a bunch of unaligned wild life, a few demons, and skeletons, and zombies I've got to take a stab at it. :|

Offline Florence

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2014, 06:23:02 PM »
No no no, but unless you want to play versus a bunch of unaligned wild life, a few demons, and skeletons, and zombies I've got to take a stab at it. :|

That'd be a great campaign, we have to defend a village from a horde of bunnies.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2014, 06:45:49 PM »
That'd be a great campaign, we have to defend a village from a horde of bunnies.
Q__Q

Not teh bunnehs!

Offline Rajah

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2014, 11:06:46 PM »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2014, 06:15:11 AM »
Well... um I hope you don't hold it against me if I don't read that guy's stuff. My head will explode. O__O

My plan was to compared the 5th ed with the 3.5 monsters and extrapolate. :|
The second link is going to be helpful, though not a lot seems to have changed between the two. I imagine magic is what will throw the freaking monkey wrench in there.

EDIT: Glad they spoiled the red dragon. Because the dragons in Alabastra are living beings of the element and material planes. They're not broken along the metallic/chromatic lines. They come in four varieties each with families of colors. Breath weapons overlap sometimes, and most importantly they're smart enough to choose their own alignments, so you never know exactly how one is going to think based on its coloration. There body types can also be different if they're ancient, ancient. Earth are made of rocks, airs are made of solidified air.

Earth: Bronze, brown, tan, gold, etc. Breath: Acid, and molten lava, among one that's basically magical radiation.
Fire: Ruby, red, black, white, etc. Fire, molten lava, among others
Water: Blue, silver, white, gray. Water, ice, etc.
Air: White, silver, light blue, etc. Weapon Air (force basically), lightning, cold.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:04:24 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Rajah

Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2014, 07:01:34 AM »
My plan was to compared the 5th ed with the 3.5 monsters and extrapolate. :|
The second link is going to be helpful, though not a lot seems to have changed between the two. I imagine magic is what will throw the freaking monkey wrench in there.

Monsters generally have lower stats except for HP, which is more evident the higher level you look at. 3.5e dragons would eat 5e dragons like nothing. Dragons aren't spellcasters any more by default, either. Iconic monsters have "lair" actions, which are things they can do in their favored terrain, and really powerful ones have "legendary" actions, which is just 4E-style "fuck the economy" solo monster stuff. Fewer monsters have spellcasting, in general. Sprites don't, for example.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2014, 07:07:26 AM »
Monsters generally have lower stats except for HP, which is more evident the higher level you look at. 3.5e dragons would eat 5e dragons like nothing. Dragons aren't spellcasters any more by default, either. Iconic monsters have "lair" actions, which are things they can do in their favored terrain, and really powerful ones have "legendary" actions, which is just 4E-style "fuck the economy" solo monster stuff. Fewer monsters have spellcasting, in general. Sprites don't, for example.
Yeah I noticed that. I hope they haven't messed with the CR balance much. *Whistles innocently*

You know a level 1 character should be able to take down four 1/4 Cr monsters with noticeable risk.

EDIT: Don't worry about it that much. The supplement they're handing out is pretty packed full of various monsters. I think can get enough encounters out to tide me until the monster manual is out. :)

EDIT: Though honestly I'm feeling better about the buteo. Looking at the gargoyle, and assuming it's magic I think the buteo is more than fair. The gargoyle could easily knock sorcerers from the air. So I'm probably going to reintegrate the hawk-kin back into the setting later today.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:19:23 AM by Inkidu »

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Return of the Mad King [D&D 5th ed. OPEN!]
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2014, 09:35:38 AM »
So in general I think that the buteo flight will work like this.

Combat Flying: While buteos can normally fly, flying in quick, stressful, and combat situations requires much more effort.

As a bonus action a buteo may choose to take off and fly 30ft. in one turn in a space that is one size category larger than themselves (med) or greater.

During this action a buteo can do anything that doesn't require that they be on the ground (thing like pulling levers, lifting objects over their heads, and common sense stuff like not reading books). A buteo can only use melee, unarmed and thrown weapons they're proficient in. They can initiate a grapple ending flight, or a shove (only ending flight if they fail). They can cast spells that only require one turn or less of preparation provided they can pass the concentration check.

If a buteo is damaged or otherwise distracted by an ability or spell effect he must pass a concentration check of 10+damage taken, or 10+spell level or immediately fall prone (taking fall damage if applicable).

If a buteo fails a saving throw he or she falls prone. If they succeed the saving throw they must make an additional concentration check equal to the saving throw or immediately land within five feet.

If a buteo becomes incapacitated flight immediately ends and they fall prone. 

Weight restrictions apply.

That will let them fly in a traveling way and a combat way, so it seems like they suck less at flying. 

I'm also thinking of giving half buteos another choice of proficiency or proficiency in perception.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:40:45 AM by Inkidu »