Okay, first off, (a), quit digging, and (b), there was an employment study
done about discrimination based on "black-sounding" names vs. "white-sounding" names on resumes! No showing up for the interview with a clock around their necks, just names on a piece of paper.
Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback.
The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant, Bertrand and Mullainathan note in Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination (NBER Working Paper No. 9873). It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller.
The experiment, conducted between July 2001 and January 2002, reveals several other aspects of discrimination. If the fictitious resume indicates that the applicant lives in a wealthier, or more educated, or more-white neighborhood, the callback rate rises. Interestingly, this effect does not differ by race. Indeed, if ghettos and bad neighborhoods are particularly stigmatizing for African-Americans, one might have expected them to be helped more than whites by having a "good" address.
Further, discrimination levels are statistically uniform across all the occupation and industry categories covered in the experiment. Federal contractors, sometimes regarded as more severely constrained by affirmative action laws, do not discriminate less. Neither do larger employers, or employers who explicitly state that they are "Equal Opportunity Employer" in their ads.
ningyou, I was not trying to single you out or anything, I was just sharing my thoughts on this subject.
It is safe to say the vast majority of employers (management positions and above) are not black (or minorities, for that matter). This means that minorities face bias - and a well-documented one at that. As a result, over the long-term, the goal is to create a society where management positions are equally represented by a variety of races. This is also why we encourage more women to enter engineering and science fields.
"The vast majority" of employers are not minorities (white. you mean "they're white."), ergo minorities will face bias. You say this without putting any qualifiers or disclaimers on it.
So you're saying that white employers are biased against "minorities" by default. White employers are biased against all
minorities by default. And you said in your previous post that "much of the hiring bias against minorities is due to behavioural traits that may be appropriate ~among their own subcultures~ but not in polite society."
Let's just put these two things together. "Most white employers are biased against minorities by default, but
the minorities bring that bias on themselves through behaviour that is okay when they're among their own but not in a business setting/society in general/whatever." What are you saying here
if not that minorities will face discrimination for acting too non-white (or non-male, or non-straight, or non-cis, or whatever)? Do you honestly believe that university-educated black people interviewing for accounting firm jobs or w/e show up in sagging jeans and talk like Lil' Jon?
Also it's mighty white of you to "encourage women to enter engineering and scientific fields," but...well
. (Yes, I know it's tech-centric, but it talks about STEM fields generally too.)
I never suggested that any minority should "talk like white people." All I said is that certain behaviors and personality traits are frequently associated with those who are successful in their careers. Look at people who have done well in life, whether it is international giants like Narendra Modi (the prime minister of India) and Alassane Ouattara (the president of Cote d'Ivoire) or simply minorities who have been successful in everyday life (working in management, accounting, teaching, medicine/nursing, etc). All of these people are successful because they know the importance of operating in a multicultural society, and avoid behaviors that insulate themselves along ethnic lines. When an African American uses the n-word when speaking with other African Americans, or dresses in a manner found in mainstream rap videos, they are essentially making a choice to not participate in the mainstream, multicultural society (a conglomeration of European, Asian, Hispanic, and Black cultures). Rather, they are making a choice to associate themselves with the image portrayed in the media.
To be successful in any career, it is important to present oneself in a manner that is welcoming and pleasant to all people. I'm not saying this is right, it's just the way of the world. The likelihood that a minority working in accounting is going to get clients of any race, dressing in saggy jeans and using the n-word, is very slim at best.
The point a few of us were making earlier, and from what I gather what Euron was saying, is that many of these negative associations within the black community have been artificially introduced through the media. It's a shame that these artificially introduced images have been embraced by much of the black community when it is predominantly white producers who are funding this.
There's a lot here I'm not going to address because I don't have the stamina right now to look at every screwed up thing you say and explain politely but in exacting detail why it's screwed up and then patiently wait for you to tell me how oh, I'm sorry, you misunderstood, what we really meant was
____ and do the whole thing over again.
Not going to address the thing about how a black person dressing like a rapper at any point or using the n-word at all ever is apparently making a choice not to participate in society as a whole, and how acting like a gangsta rapper is...what does "insulating themselves along ethnic lines" even mean here? Are you saying that behaving like an extra from a "mainstream rap video" is one of these behaviours? Are you trying to say that acting and dressing like Snoop Manticore with the cameras on or w/e = African-American Culture?
Not going to address how apparently the key to success is not acting too ethnic in our multicultural society (and one of your examples for this is....really? Narendra Modi?
) as opposed to a mix of hard work, luck, privilege
(which includes being privileged enough to get an education and be allowed into/learn how to navigate rich, white business and/or political settings!), and timing, 'cos I feel like talking about intersectionality would fly right over your head.
Not going to address how bizarrely specific
it is for you to talk about "a minority" working in accounting and presenting like a gangsta rap stereotype.
Not going to...you get the idea.
Also, rereading the OP, Euron is...Euron is not making a lot of sense. He lists a bunch of super profane gangsta rappers from the 90s and talks about how they were positive (
??) but now literally all rap
is about stacks of money, doing all the drugs and getting all the big booty bitches, but it's really mostly white record moguls' doing (you are aware the radio isn't the only place people get their music, right?), but it's really
black people who should know better than to listen to music that "promotes negative stereotypes." Like, don't get me wrong, there are issues with the rap scene, but...."black people should know better than to listen to music that promotes stereotypes!" (meanwhile, white people don't have to critically examine everything they listen to because of course)
So why is mainstream rap music so popular? Is it because it gives kids the fantasy of being rich and famous or do people just don't care, due to that sick beat doe?
"That sick beat doe," really? This is...not the way to not sound like a closet racist. (There's more to say here about lack of opportunity and systemic discrimination affecting aspirations, but this is long enough already. lol.)
Also also from the first page:
I think this is part of a broader issue. If we are ever going to become a post-racial society, where we judge people on the content of their character, we all need to move past this basal logic where something is only "ours" if it is of "our" ethnicity. Like consortium says, white people have largely moved past this, but the black community still holds onto this. I can certainly empathize with the historical biases the black community has faced, but continuing to hold onto this "otherness" is only dividing us all.
lmao between this and the thing about THE UNCOOL STIGMA OF BEING A WHITE MALE i can't take your opinions seriously anymore (see also: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/5-things-white-people-cultural-appropriation/