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Author Topic: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?  (Read 13576 times)

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Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #375 on: January 02, 2015, 07:12:57 PM »
Actually there are studies that discredit the idea that sex automatically sells so its not really cut and dry issue. Mostly its probably just advertisers being lazy and relaying on the "common knowledge."

Speaking from personal anecdotal experience only, but while sex doesn't sell things for me (aside from a few things... *glances at Senran Kagura special edition box*), it certainly draws my interest.  I may be happier to buy an item that doesn't try to use sex in its marketing, but if I don't pay attention to it because I'm too busy trying to find out if a similar, slightly inferior item is worth my money because I was first drawn in by a sexy picture, I may not realize I'd be happier with it instead.

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #376 on: January 02, 2015, 07:15:00 PM »
Speaking from personal anecdotal experience only, but while sex doesn't sell things for me (aside from a few things... *glances at Senran Kagura special edition box*), it certainly draws my interest.  I may be happier to buy an item that doesn't try to use sex in its marketing, but if I don't pay attention to it because I'm too busy trying to find out if a similar, slightly inferior item is worth my money because I was first drawn in by a sexy picture, I may not realize I'd be happier with it instead.

You have it too? <3

But I agree, sex doesn't automatically sell to many, but to some it does. I'll admit, I'd rather buy a game featuring a stunning beauty than a game featuring a 40 year old hobo who looks like he hasn't showered for the last eight months, not that I think I'm left alone in that category.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #377 on: January 02, 2015, 07:19:07 PM »
We weren't distinguishing between hardcore and not. We were distinguishing between what is and isn't a gamer, and you can't just put up some arbitrary criterion and say, "You're only a gamer if you do/don't do X" What you were doing was trying to quantify what is and isn't a gamer, not the degrees contained within the media. Just because a hardcore fan says, "X is ruining the genre/isn't real X" doesn't mean it's true, and trying to poll people on it would be more untenable then asking them if they thought themselves a gamer. 

Yes, there are certain hardcore targets you want, but here's something that will forever remain true about hardcore fans of anything. Advertising need not apply. Sure get it out there, but you don't have to campaign for the really dedicated to a craft, because they already get the magazines, they want their finger on the pulse.

I'm not a hardcore XCOM fan (well I wasn't), but I was a hardcore TBS fan. XCOM naturally came up in the circles I normally perused. The Call of Duty guys are always going to buy CoD as long as they like it. In fact when a game tends to need more exposure they tend to make their appeals to the less hardcore sectors of their demographic.

Anyway, I'm done derailing the topic.

Offline Starcry

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #378 on: January 02, 2015, 08:36:57 PM »
First, since this was brought up twice, I will address the picture criticism.  The image was posted up by the other member as an example of Bayonetta going up against, “angels.”  I am guessing this angels part was in reference to Dante’s heritage.  Anyway, the image placed there was meant to portray her badassness which I eluded to in the last sentence of my critique of the image.  If the image is placed there as an example to reinforce an argument, then I have the right to then critique that picture’s imagery and show the falsehood of the claim.
I actually put up the image to show the characters together made by the same creator. Hideki Kamiya. Kinda like when people did this when DMC 5 trailer had been shown:



All of them are Hideki Kamiya's creations.

Dante was originally half devil half human and not a Nephilim like the reboot suggests. So the assumption you made of my reasons for posting it are beyond wrong and give a clear example of people jumping to conclusions over things that aren't even there.

To grab from a summary from Wikia:

"Hideki Kamiya's vision of a "cool and stylish" man, and his personality was based on the titular character of the manga series Cobra. Across the series, Dante's portrayal has been modified to appeal to criticism aimed towards his role in the first sequel with Devil May Cry 3 featuring a younger and cockier Dante while Devil May Cry 4 offered an older yet cocky characterization. While Capcom handled the character in the first four games, Ninja Theory was in charge of his persona in the reboot."


Devil May Cry

Original version:


Sequal:



Prequal:



Fourth with Nero (who was not made by Hideki Kamiya as he had left Capcom and formed PlatinumGames by this point.)



Reboot Dante is who you are thinking of



One could argue that with each installment Dante became more and more sexualised due to the critique. How did he become sexualised? He became what a females find desirable what men fantasize being. Show any female hetro nerd a well done cosplay picture of Dante and she will drool... or at least raise an eyebrow in approval.

Now with Dante out the way here was Kamiya's approach when making Bayonetta:

"Given the suggestion to create another action game by producer Yusuke Hashimoto, project director Hideki Kamiya decided to create a female lead for the title, having felt he had already done all that could be done with male protagonists.[4] To this end, he told character designer Mari Shimazaki to create her with three traits: a female lead, a modern witch, and to use four guns.[3] Her name was inspired by a bayonet, meant to imply there was "more to her than meets the eye",[5] while her four guns were named parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme after the old English ballad, 'Scarborough Fair', due to Kamiya's love of folk music.[6] The process, which took a full year, went through a hundred character designs and alterations, with early appearances resembling a traditional witch, with a frayed black outfit and a "veil-like look" on her head.[5] The outfit color persisted, described by Shimazaki as being her "theme color" due to being a witch. She was given longer legs and arms to make her more appealing as an action-game character, countering what Shimazaki felt was a trend of female characters in such games having short and thin limbs.[3] Her limbs and the rest of her design were appealing to Kamiya,[5] and development proceeded on the character's attire.[3]

Bayonetta's beehive hairstyle was an aspect Shimazaki insisted on, using it as an alternative to the usual pointed hat seen on witches. However despite concerns, Kamiya had no qualms about the hairstyle one way or another. She was additionally given glasses at Kamiya's insistence, intended to differentiate her from other female characters as well as give her a "sense of mystery and intelligence", though Shimazaki attributed it to possibly his preference for women with glasses.[3] Her guns were modeled after a derringer pistol, in order to remain convincing and familiar, as well as to make her weapons "capable of rapid fire; a simple, rugged gun". Kamiya approved the idea, on the grounds that he felt the weapon would look "hot" in a female hand.[7] Holsters were additionally considered for her feet, however the developers discarded the idea after feeling it wasn't feminine.[5]

The concept of creating her outfit out of her hair was intended to fit into her design as a witch, which the development team felt meant she derived power from her hair.[5] It was designed to both be a "means of adornment and protection" while also giving her appear "fashionable" and accentuate the movement of her limbs. During this process it was decided that as she summoned creatures to attack her enemies during the game she would lose partial control of her hair and end up in more "comfortable" attire; Shimazaki noted this as one of the aspects of the character she loved.[3] Kamiya in addition wanted to avoid giving her large breasts and cleavage, feeling that normal sized breasts were adequate and that being mysterious was more attractive than "baring it all".[8] The character's model was created by Kenichiro Yoshimura, who observed non-Japanese models to keep her proportions authentic, giving particular focus to her backside which, as a result, led to it being made wider and more rounded than the typically slim-hipped female characters designed by Japanese artists.[9] While the character Jeanne came to be better liked by most of the team, Bayonetta was Shimazaki's favorite character, while Kamiya referred to her as his "ideal woman".[10]"

As you see a lot more thought went into Bayonetta than Dante. If anything sex wasn't on his or the teams mind. It was also a female who was the artist working with him throughout the whole time. He was done with men and wanted to make an amazing woman who would appeal to all and in my opinion he has been successful.




The picture I put up I assume was the artist pointing out an irony that they had the same father but were also opposites. Dante is male, Demon half breed and Demon hunter. Bayonetta is female, Witch and Angel hunter. There is nothing bad ass about the picture at all. It just expresses two characters coming together who were made by the same person.

Perhaps it would have been better for me to have posted something like this:



Or this?



Both Dante and Bayonetta fans have said that there needs to be a crossover but know it can never happen due to the fact that Dante's IP belongs to Capcom and they are not exactly on good terms with the people they decided to liquidise and screw over. Aka pretty much everyone who founded and went onto become PlatinumGames.

I present to you those who are responsible for:

Resident Evil
Devil May Cry
Viewtiful Joe
GodHand
Okami
Bayonetta

And two joint projects with Hideo Kojima

Vanquish
Metal Gear Rising Revengeance


And many more I don't wanna spend all night listing...



Founders of PlatinumGames ^

The whole studio v



Thank you for your hard work and may you stay awesome forever! <3

Platinum are also known for offering jobs to those who have been screwed over by Capcom and other companies. They are forever looking for talent as they see that it should never be wasted. A great example of this is when THQ went up shit creek and one of the studios didn't get bought out, Hideki Kamiya Tweeted to those who were in crisis to contact Platinum so they could work something out for them.

I think I will stop now because I have gone off on a massive tangent. >.<

Whoopsy!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 08:40:33 PM by Starcry »

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #379 on: January 03, 2015, 12:36:26 AM »
Well, actually it doesn’t give an example of people jumping to conclusions.  You made a show of talking about Bayonetta as a certain type of character, in a similar vein as Dante and then dropped a rather demonstrative photograph of them together.  Then paired them side-by-side with pretty blatant contrasts to each other.  If my conclusion that you posted the picture there as an example of Bayonetta’s badassness was a jumping conclusion, that is only because there wasn’t much else to conclude.  Also, my remark about angels was knowing both versions but I guess my assumption was either you misspoke or knew about the reboot.  I guess there you can fault an assumption.

Actually, if you look at the pictures posted, then you see that Dante’s appeal was not toward women but toward men.  He became more visibly powerful and projecting until culminating in a final depiction of four angels engaged in what looks almost sexual while he occupies a larger space at the center.  This is an obvious depiction of power and authority over female sex objects.  Who is that geared more toward appealing to?

Actually, I don’t see because we are not comparing notes from Dante’s creation and Bayonetta’s creation.  We are comparing three paragraphs of Bayonetta to none regarding Dante.  Also, sex was not on their mind while giving her a larger backside and legs.  There was also no thought of her sexual appeal as he approved her weapon because it was “hot.”  I’m sorry, but to state that sex was not on their minds when creating such an obviously sexual image seems naïve at best and purposefully misleading at worst. 

So, I imagine now we can return to the discussion as the sideline discussion of Bayonetta’s picture has been resolved.

Offline consortium11

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #380 on: January 03, 2015, 04:43:50 AM »
We weren't distinguishing between hardcore and not. We were distinguishing between what is and isn't a gamer, and you can't just put up some arbitrary criterion and say, "You're only a gamer if you do/don't do X" What you were doing was trying to quantify what is and isn't a gamer, not the degrees contained within the media.

Again, Remiel was discussing why games tend to include male protagonists and female eye candy, noting who the audience were. You responded by saying that the audience is now around 50% female and I responded by mentioning that while that may be true with a wide definition of "gamer" it remains the case that high profile AAA titles are generally bought by males with the upswing in female gamers being largely related to the casual tablet/mobile market. You then said that distinction was meaningless which I way I gave examples of why if you're a producer of AAA video games it's not meaningless to work out who your audience is.

Just because a hardcore fan says, "X is ruining the genre/isn't real X" doesn't mean it's true, and trying to poll people on it would be more untenable then asking them if they thought themselves a gamer.

No, it doesn't... but you were saying that video games is the only medium in which people attempt to do so. It's clearly not.

Again, do you consider everyone who drives a car a car enthusiast/gearhead/petrolhead? Do you consider everyone who eats food a "foodie", everyone who has a glass of wine a wine aficionado, everyone who ever watches a movie a film buff etc etc?

Offline Shjade

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #381 on: January 03, 2015, 05:56:06 AM »
Take GTA for an example.  You are able to go around killing women, some of them prostitutes, for the sole purpose of doing so.

However, you're able to go around killing anyone you want for the sole purpose of doing so.  That doesn't mean that the game encourages violence against women if it encourages violence against everyone.

Now, I won't say there aren't problems with GTA and female representation.  I do think it would be interesting to see a playable female protagonist, and if you said that sex workers in the game are too prevalent and represented poorly, I'd probably agree with you (though note that I have yet to play a GTA game myself, so it wouldn't be a very strong agreement until I've gotten around to playing it and seeing it for myself in context).  But to infer that the game allowing you to kill anyone means that you're encouraged to kill women (as if you're killing women exclusively - or worse, the men you're killing at the same time don't matter).  The simple fact is that if a game allows violence against everyone, you can't claim it encourages violence against only a specific group in that "everyone", even if some people get some perverse enjoyment out of doing so.
Again: missing the point.

It's not that they're there to be killed like everyone else. It's that they - they being strippers - are there for no reason other than for eye candy and, if you wish, to be abused/killed.

Let's look at that GTA V example you mentioned: how many male prostitutes are in it? Male strippers? Males being sexually exploited in general? How many male NPCs can you use to heal or otherwise benefit yourself at a cost which you then get back for killing them to make the service free?

You can kill everyone in these games, sure. What does that have to do with which targets are put in the game for you to kill?

Nothing.

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #382 on: January 03, 2015, 06:06:04 AM »
Again: missing the point.

It's not that they're there to be killed like everyone else. It's that they - they being strippers - are there for no reason other than for eye candy and, if you wish, to be abused/killed.

Let's look at that GTA V example you mentioned: how many male prostitutes are in it? Male strippers? Males being sexually exploited in general? How many male NPCs can you use to heal or otherwise benefit yourself at a cost which you then get back for killing them to make the service free?

You can kill everyone in these games, sure. What does that have to do with which targets are put in the game for you to kill?

Nothing.

And I feel inclined to ask - Who cares?

Yes, they don't really benefit the game much, but who is it that cares? It's not the gamers after all, they don't really fret over it. No, it's Anita that cares. If she had kept her mouth shut, nobody would really give a shit. It is because she is PROMOTING to care about it that people are angry. Some might say that it's a good thing, that this anger will fuel change, but it really won't. The game producers are whipped by those who buy the games - If you want to be successful, you need to follow the guidelines that the receiving demographic put up, and if the majority of those wants there to be hookers in the game, then they include it. And if the game included male strippers and male prostitutes, you know what would happen? It would be hated on by those who are anti-gay, those who think that you - as a male character - should not have access to such.

And say, if you actually went to a strip-club, what would the strippers be to you? Yes, they would be eye-candy, and that's about it. In the games, sure, you can kill them. You can kill anyone else though, so it never promotes you to kill them.

And what damned targets? Most of those I've seen play it just drive on the sidewalks and shoot rockets around them, and I am pretty sure most targets - if not all - are male. Should we complain about this as well? Too few women for you to torture and shoot in the main missions?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #383 on: January 03, 2015, 07:47:50 AM »
The ironic thing is no one's pissed about the innocent man being threatened by an IAA (CIA analogue) woman with flashlight-based sodomy. :\
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 07:56:10 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Caehlim

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #384 on: January 03, 2015, 07:52:27 AM »
And I feel inclined to ask - Who cares?

*Raises his hand*

Quote
Yes, they don't really benefit the game much, but who is it that cares? It's not the gamers after all, they don't really fret over it. No, it's Anita that cares. If she had kept her mouth shut, nobody would really give a shit. It is because she is PROMOTING to care about it that people are angry.

Or you know... people might have opinions that didn't come from watching a person's video on youtube but rather occurred independently through the interaction between their experience of the game, their personal value system and their life experiences.

Quote
Some might say that it's a good thing, that this anger will fuel change, but it really won't. The game producers are whipped by those who buy the games - If you want to be successful, you need to follow the guidelines that the receiving demographic put up, and if the majority of those wants there to be hookers in the game, then they include it.

You know, I haven't seen a single non-historical work that criticized inter-racial marriage produced in any media during my lifetime, despite this having once been the prevailing social value within our culture. However people who objected to this, changed people's minds over time to the point where eventually people stopped producing media about it and people stopped purchasing media about it, each half of that reinforcing the other.

Quote
And if the game included male strippers and male prostitutes, you know what would happen? It would be hated on by those who are anti-gay, those who think that you - as a male character - should not have access to such.

While I would disagree with their opinion, if they feel strongly about that then they should probably offer commentary upon the media that contradicts their value system. They're a bit busy right now becoming irrelevant and mourning their own obsolescence but it's perfectly valid for them to share their (incorrect) opinion.

Quote
And say, if you actually went to a strip-club, what would the strippers be to you?

Hard working people with a tough gig around whom I would feel rather awkward.

Quote
Should we complain about this as well? Too few women for you to torture and shoot in the main missions?

That does seem a potentially valid topic for discussion. I know your question is rhetorical but shouldn't women be treated with respect for their agency, allowing them to be involved in all aspects both positive and negative of the game?

Offline Caehlim

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #385 on: January 03, 2015, 07:55:39 AM »
The ironic thing is no one's pissed about the innocent man being threatened by a IAA (CIA analogue) woman with flashlight-based sodomy. :\

I'm not sure where that's from since this is the first time I've heard about it, but yeah, I'd be pissed off about that. (Whether they're innocent or not, that's still wrong).

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #386 on: January 03, 2015, 08:06:07 AM »
I'm not sure where that's from since this is the first time I've heard about it, but yeah, I'd be pissed off about that. (Whether they're innocent or not, that's still wrong).
It's in GTA V. It's a mission given to the three protagonists (it's the first one that uses all three) where they have to break into a skyscraper by rappelling from a helicopter to kidnap an innocent man for the FIB (FBI Analogue). You interrupt a IAA woman smashing the man's hand with said flashlight and literally having him bent over the desk in preparation for said sodomy. Thankfully, you get your hands on him before anything comes of it, but given the games it was not idle threat.

Also, no matter how fast you act you can never actually shoot the woman. In point of fact I don't think any woman in the actual narrative of any GTA game can be killed by the player.

Men are seen as expendable, and by virtue of that less important. Violence against men by women is often met with derision or apathy.

Offline Caehlim

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #387 on: January 03, 2015, 08:14:55 AM »
It's in GTA V. It's a mission given to the three protagonists (it's the first one that uses all three) where they have to break into a skyscraper by rappelling from a helicopter to kidnap an innocent man for the FIB (FBI Analogue). You interrupt a IAA woman smashing the man's hand with said flashlight and literally having him bent over the desk in preparation for said sodomy. Thankfully, you get your hands on him before anything comes of it, but given the games it was not idle threat.

Without having seen the scene myself it's hard to comment, but just from the rough description it sounds pretty objectionable depending on how it's treated. It does sound like the game paints her as being in the wrong for those actions and you are acting to intervene, so it could be okay... but knowing the GTA series I expect that there was some element of playing that for laughs which is pretty sick.

Quote
Men are seen as expendable, and by virtue of that less important. Violence against men by women is often met with derision or apathy.

This is something else that bothers me in games and other media. Violence against men by women is treated as humorous, in fact this is often extended to sexual violence against men being 'funny' because it's from a female source.

I mentioned (way) earlier in the thread that Anita Sarkeesian's videos focuses almost exclusively on female issues in games and neglects aspects like this. That's okay, because it's not part of the video's topic but it's still something which I wish was discussed more commonly and treated more seriously.

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #388 on: January 03, 2015, 08:17:35 AM »
It's in GTA V. It's a mission given to the three protagonists (it's the first one that uses all three) where they have to break into a skyscraper by rappelling from a helicopter to kidnap an innocent man for the FIB (FBI Analogue). You interrupt a IAA woman smashing the man's hand with said flashlight and literally having him bent over the desk in preparation for said sodomy. Thankfully, you get your hands on him before anything comes of it, but given the games it was not idle threat.

Also, no matter how fast you act you can never actually shoot the woman. In point of fact I don't think any woman in the actual narrative of any GTA game can be killed by the player.

Men are seen as expendable, and by virtue of that less important. Violence against men by women is often met with derision or apathy.

This is just one example of violence towards males. In another mission, you are tasked to torture an illegal immigrant through several different acts including water boarding and electrification. Granted, the scene did get a fair bit of controversy, but I don't want to imagine the shitstorm that would come if the immigrant was female. What you say is right though, in games like these, male characters are normally treated as expendable.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #389 on: January 03, 2015, 08:25:13 AM »
This is just one example of violence towards males. In another mission, you are tasked to torture an illegal immigrant through several different acts including water boarding and electrification. Granted, the scene did get a fair bit of controversy, but I don't want to imagine the shitstorm that would come if the immigrant was female. What you say is right though, in games like these, male characters are normally treated as expendable.
It's the same person from my example in fact.

I was just illustrating in a game that has no mandatory forcing of violence on women (all women killed in GTA V are on your own agency), no one seemed to care when women actually perpetrates some... enhanced interrogation techniques on a man. However, you're forced to perpetrate all manner of violence on men, and while it did get some controversy and crossed the line, you're right. There would have been an unholy shit-fit if it had been a woman being tortured.

However, men have always been an expendable gender in all video games. You can probably count the franchises that make you kill women on two hands. 

EDIT: That's sort of why I still have to give Bioware props. They make truly equal-sex games. In Mass Effect and Dragon Age you're more than likely going to fight women, and it's never seen as unfair, and their in-universe justifications for why you don't see females in fighting (the Krgoan, Salarians of ME for example) hinge more on practicality than women just aren't fighters. In Dragon Age, women are expected to hold their weight if they choose the fighting career.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 08:30:06 AM by Inkidu »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #390 on: January 03, 2015, 08:31:30 AM »
Skyrim is the one game that I have seen evil minions and villains of both genders in almost equal standing...

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #391 on: January 03, 2015, 08:32:15 AM »
It's the same person from my example in fact.

I was just illustrating in a game that has no mandatory forcing of violence on women (all women killed in GTA V are on your own agency), no one seemed to care when women actually perpetrates some... enhanced interrogation techniques on a man. However, you're forced to perpetrate all manner of violence on men, and while it did get some controversy and crossed the line, you're right. There would have been an unholy shit-fit if it had been a woman being tortured.

However, men have always been an expendable gender in all video games. You can probably count the franchises that make you kill women on two hands.

Can we too make a youtube channel? Can we call it MeninistFrequency and have it feature violence towards men? Sexualization towards men?






I just had my first look at Anita's videos, I've been staying away purposely because I really didn't want to see it, but I did anyways, and I'm about halfway through the video featuring the damsel in distress thing, and while I can agree to a lot of the things being said, it feels very one-sided. For example, when she features the Mario franchise, she only pulls out the games where you rescue the princess, not the countless other games where there is no such plot.

Overall, I am all for this kind of movement, though she is a horrible representation of the movement needed.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #392 on: January 03, 2015, 08:36:07 AM »
I bet she didn't pull out Super Mario Bros 2, or Super Princess Peach, and to the franchise's credit they tend to be moving toward a save-the-whole kingdom thing instead of just the princess. Also, Peach has always been considered a benevolent, competent, and much-loved ruler, who admittedly probably needs to spend more money on a military. Is there anything wrong with that?

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #393 on: January 03, 2015, 08:39:02 AM »
I bet she didn't pull out Super Mario Bros 2, or Super Princess Peach, and to the franchise's credit they tend to be moving toward a save-the-whole kingdom thing instead of just the princess. Also, Peach has always been considered a benevolent, competent, and much-loved ruler, who admittedly probably needs to spend more money on a military. Is there anything wrong with that?

I stopped watching, I realized it was a one-sided rant and couldn't take it anymore, but it did not look like Super Princess Peach was mentioned. I'm gonna look for the segment regarding zelda since I see that Spirit Tracks, the game where the female companion is far more useful than the hero of... Trains.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #394 on: January 03, 2015, 08:39:49 AM »
And we are all forgetting Mario Kart, where Peach is just as violent with those bananas and turtle shells as the next plumber...

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #395 on: January 03, 2015, 08:47:54 AM »
And we are all forgetting Mario Kart, where Peach is just as violent with those bananas and turtle shells as the next plumber...

And, you know, the soccer game, the golf game, the basketball game, Super Smash as a whole...

Also, I opened the video again because I'm so happy to take torture, and she's talking about how you as the male character always stand for your own escape instead of ending up as a damsel in distress, while female characters don't. She never once mentions that this is due to you playing a male character, nor that the trope has been flipped numerous times.

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Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #396 on: January 03, 2015, 08:50:40 AM »
And, you know, the soccer game, the golf game, the basketball game, Super Smash as a whole...

Also, I opened the video again because I'm so happy to take torture, and she's talking about how you as the male character always stand for your own escape instead of ending up as a damsel in distress, while female characters don't. She never once mentions that this is due to you playing a male character, nor that the trope has been flipped numerous times.
I think that's many people's problem with her. I'm all for voicing your opinion, but the first big no-no of making an argument is that you just can't ignore all the things that don't fit it and focus solely on the research that strengthens your argument.

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #397 on: January 03, 2015, 08:57:31 AM »
I think that's many people's problem with her. I'm all for voicing your opinion, but the first big no-no of making an argument is that you just can't ignore all the things that don't fit it and focus solely on the research that strengthens your argument.

Yes, I agree. If anything, I would gladly support her if she instead of shaming those who don't empower females, would honor those who don't fall into the tropes. Many of the tropes and such she pulls in are very legitimate and such, but her presentation of them is really bad. she doesn't pull out the examples that she wants to see more of, or at least wants us to believe she wants to see more of. If she dedicated her time to pulling out those who did it right instead of shaming those who don't, then I'd be far more interested in what she has to say. The videos now are pretty much just a big "Shame on you for being a male". I have stopped using the word feminism, it has lost its meaning because of those like her.

Quote
feminism |ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m| noun [ mass noun ]
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

This is what feminism SUPPOSEDLY means. However, it has turned into something more like this:

Quote
feminism |ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m| noun [ mass noun ]
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of gaining superiority amidst the sexes.

Hence why I've turned to the word Equalism instead, as it's not as easily misunderstood for anyone with an IQ over 80.

Offline Shjade

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #398 on: January 03, 2015, 03:53:43 PM »
This is what feminism SUPPOSEDLY means. However, it has turned into something more like this:
No.

That opposition to feminism has taken to saying that's what it means is not the same as it actually meaning that.

Offline Lynnette

Re: Thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian's videos?
« Reply #399 on: January 03, 2015, 03:57:27 PM »
No.

That opposition to feminism has taken to saying that's what it means is not the same as it actually meaning that.

What the fuck does that even mean? I'm saying, Feminism is supposed to be a following for gender equality, but it has turned towards the point where it's man-hating.