Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[TheGlyphstone]

If that's waht you are after, that is a very good idea. A lot of the fluff in the rulebooks are written as in-character/in-universe documents, which does a lot of conveying the grimdark tone in addition to the usual unreliable narrator bits.

[Beorning]

Are there such prose pieces in the main WH40K rulebook, too? Or is this book more brief and encyclopedic?

[TheGlyphstone]

Most of it is prose, actually.

[ChaoticSky]

Well, hello there :)

*notices the Lady tag* You know, I'm relieved to see that there actually are women playing this game. While browsing stuff online, I keep hearing that it's a very masculine game and that the percentage of female WH40K players is 1:1000000...

Indeed, we do exist! Rare and mysterious breed we are.


...Naturally, I'm fan of Chaos (and therefore BC). 

[Kevben Battleheart]

What's a Stormwolf? Show us photos :)

Well I won't bore you with my unpainted one, but here's the Games Workshop one to give you a look at it. I choose to build it, rather than the Gunship variant they have, since I have about 30 Blood Claws who are kinda useless if you can't get em into the fight. (I usually play against my brother and he's a Tyranid player who likes to use the living artillery formation). Eventually I want to add Bjorn the Fell Handed and Murderfang into my army as well. What's not to love about having a machine that's as rabid as an ork deff dread but deadlier and a living legend walking on the battlefield?

[Hemingway]

I'm not sure about Bjorn ( too expensive for the points I'm aiming for ), but I do plan on running a Dreadnought. Helfrost Cannons are insane.

[Beorning]

Ooooh. Cool model, that Stormwolf. I wish the Sisters had something like that. They only have two tanks and these walking machines...

BTW. Regarding cool models - I've shown the photos of my two minis to my sister and she thinks they are scary  Do you have any photos (or links to photos) of cool, nicely-painted models and minis?

Coming back to the subject of the main rulebook - so, it's worth picking up for getting into mood?

[HairyHeretic]

http://urbanzone.ehost.pl/blog/hello-kitty-space-marines/

 

Or on a slightly more serious note

[Beorning]

Oh wow... This thing is awesome!

A quick question: assuming I would *not* be buying Dark Vengeance after all, then... what *should* I buy to be able to play (aside from the minis, that is)? The core rulebook, the dice (are there any other specialized dice than the scatter die and the artillery die?), the three templates... Something else?

[HairyHeretic]

The essentials:
Rule book
Army book
Dice (unless you have barrage type weapons, you don't need to worry about the scatter dice)
Templates (again, dependent on weapons in your army)
Tape measure

[Beorning]

Okay then. Looks like I have figured out everything...

The tape measure - it can an ordinary tape measure, right? It only needs to use inches and that's it?

BTW. I was looking through the various Chaos Marines available... The ones in Dark Vengeance are Crimson Slaughter, which makes them Khorne-affiliated, I guess. Are there Chaos Marines associated with Slaanesh or Nurgle?

I ask, because I'd like to collect the daemons of Nurgle and Slaanesh - and I'd like to build an appropriate allied cult for them...

[Kevben Battleheart]

Of course there is, although I don't have the latest codex for Chaos Space Marines, but it lists some like the Emperors Children, a warband aligned with Slaanesh. Another called The Purge I think is associated with Nurgle. The Death Guard is another who work for Nurgle, just to name a couple. This link here actually has a good number of the Warbands listed and who they align with if that helps any.

[ChaoticSky]

Heh, Nurgle and Slaanesh is a amusing and great combo, too bad Grandfather Nurgle is a family man.

[HairyHeretic]

Regardless of what the models are in the box, you can paint them your own way, rename them, and give them any alleigance you want.

If you're looking at Legions, the Emperors Children are aligned to Slaanesh, the Death Guard to Nurgle. There are plenty of other warbands who are aligned to the different Chaos powers, and there's nothing to prevent you coming up with your own.

You might also look at the Word Bearers. They worship Chaos Undivided, though individual squads can align towards on power or another, and they would summon daemons from any or all of the different powers. They also make a fair use of possessed, and I'm told the Crimson Slaughter mini-dex works well as a Word Bearers list.

The Word Bearers would be my least favourite of the Chaos legions, but you might like them.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers

[Beorning]

Thank you for suggestions!

Meanwhile... I bought the Sororitas codex today. And I have a headache!

Mostly because there are units listed there that aren't available in GW's store. For once, it turns out that there is a vehicle called Sororitas Rhino - but there are no tanks like that in the Sororitas section of the store. Soooo... does it mean that they are sold out? Or, maybe, I should just buy a generic Rhino and designate it as Sororitas Rhino?

Also: the Seraphims (the fliers). They are listed as equipped with bolt pistols in their default version. But, also, they can be upgraded to being equipped with hand flamers and inferno pistols. I get the hand flamers: there is a Seraphim mini available depicted as holding them. But there seems to be no mini in the shop for a Seraphim with inferno pistols! What gives? Also, one of the Seraphims can be upgraded to a Seraphim Superior - and they can be equpped with chainswords. But again, there's no mini like that...

There are a few other cases like that... I admit that I am confused. There really should be some detailed "how-to" guide there: a full list of existing miniatures, what you should do when you want to have a specific unit with specific equipment etc...

[TheGlyphstone]

That's....way more than GW's typical effort into kits. You get a default set of weapon parts and a few swaps for alternates, but almost no kit comes with the parts to make every combination of wargear the codex allows, because the wasted plastic/metal would shrink their profit margin. If you want something non-standard, you have to bitz build it.

[Beorning]

So, if I want a Seraphim with a chainsword, I should cut one off another figure and glue it in place of the standard weapon?

I really, really wish there was some sort of list of minis... For example, the codex lists an unit called Celestian. There's no mini like that in the GW store. So, does it even exist? Or is it another case of another mini after modifications?

[HairyHeretic]

Thank you for suggestions!

Meanwhile... I bought the Sororitas codex today. And I have a headache!

Mostly because there are units listed there that aren't available in GW's store. For once, it turns out that there is a vehicle called Sororitas Rhino - but there are no tanks like that in the Sororitas section of the store. Soooo... does it mean that they are sold out? Or, maybe, I should just buy a generic Rhino and designate it as Sororitas Rhino?

Yep. Just get a standard rhino, and paint it appropriately.

You could, if you wanted to, also get some of the bits here to make it look even more the part.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Adepta_Sororitas

Also: the Seraphims (the fliers). They are listed as equipped with bolt pistols in their default version. But, also, they can be upgraded to being equipped with hand flamers and inferno pistols. I get the hand flamers: there is a Seraphim mini available depicted as holding them. But there seems to be no mini in the shop for a Seraphim with inferno pistols! What gives? Also, one of the Seraphims can be upgraded to a Seraphim Superior - and they can be equpped with chainswords. But again, there's no mini like that...

An inferno pistol is more or less a pistol sized melta weapon. Most people would simply point out 'this model is my Superior and has X wargear', or convert it up.

The Sisters have a very poor range of models I'm afraid.

There are a few other cases like that... I admit that I am confused. There really should be some detailed "how-to" guide there: a full list of existing miniatures, what you should do when you want to have a specific unit with specific equipment etc...

Convert them, or simply tell your opponent 'this is X' and go with 'counts as'.

Here is someone who has been converting Sisters models from other ranges / greenstuff

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283903-building-a-multi-part-sisters-of-battle-kit/

While there are quite a few places that do female heads, torsos and the rest are a LOT harder to find.

[HairyHeretic]

So, if I want a Seraphim with a chainsword, I should cut one off another figure and glue it in place of the standard weapon?

Yep. This is why wargames are part packrat. Anything you don't use today goes into the bitz boxes for conversions later. I have a ton of chainswords.

I really, really wish there was some sort of list of minis... For example, the codex lists an unit called Celestian. There's no mini like that in the GW store. So, does it even exist? Or is it another case of another mini after modifications?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adepta_Sororitas

Ranks of the Orders Militant

Celestian - Elite Battle Sisters, they often form squads of bodyguards for Cannonesses and Palatines.
Seraphim - only the very best Battle Sisters are elevated to the rank of Seraphim and are generally organized into specialize squads. Seraphim receive special training and equipment, primarily jump packs.
Dominion - Standard battle sisters with special weapons.
Retributor - Standard battle sisters with heavy weapons.
Battle Sister - the basic rank of Adepta Sororitas.

[Beorning]

Again, thanks.

A quick request: as I don't have the main WH40K rulebook, could I ask you to decypher the stats for units (BS, WS etc.), tanks (S,F,S,R etc.) and weapons (AP etc.)? I don't want you to pirate GW's intellectual property, I just want to make sense of what I'm reading in the codex. Obviously, I'll be getting the main book sooner or later.

Also, what's a difference between a chainsword and a powersword? Regarding ranged weapons, what exactly is a meltagun? Does it work as a normal gun, or does it cause area damage etc.?

Finally, could I ask you for some brief info for Force Organization - how many troops, elites, etc. can there be in an army? Again, I know it's in the main rulebook, but I'd like to visualize options for my army better...

[HairyHeretic]

Again, thanks.

A quick request: as I don't have the main WH40K rulebook, could I ask you to decypher the stats for units (BS, WS etc.), tanks (S,F,S,R etc.) and weapons (AP etc.)? I don't want you to pirate GW's intellectual property, I just want to make sense of what I'm reading in the codex. Obviously, I'll be getting the main book sooner or later.

Vehicles, off the top of my head, you're probably looking at the front / side / rear armour values.

Infantry .. Weapons skill and ballistic skill. How good you are in melee and ranged combat. Strength and toughness. Physical abilities, mostly for combat. Initiative, how fast / agile you are. Wounds. And Leadership to cover morale and such like. Save is either their armour or some kind of invulnerable save (deamons aura, force fields, stuff like that).

Weapons you're looking at range, strength and armour piercing value. If the weapons AP beats the armour, no saves allowed.

There are also a ton of special and individual rules for different stuff, but that's the basics.

Also, what's a difference between a chainsword and a powersword? Regarding ranged weapons, what exactly is a meltagun? Does it work as a normal gun, or does it cause area damage etc.?

Power weapons tend to cut through most armour like it isn't there.

A meltagun is a high strength, short range weapon. Man portable anti tank is the best way to think of it.

The only weapons you probably have that would do area damage are the flamer weapons, and possibly the missiles on the Exorcist tank (though I'm not sure about those)

Finally, could I ask you for some brief info for Force Organization - how many troops, elites, etc. can there be in an army? Again, I know it's in the main rulebook, but I'd like to visualize options for my army better...

The minimum requirements (I think) are 1 HQ unit and 2 basic troop units. The maximum in a single force org chart is 2 HQs, 6 Troops and 3 each of Elites / Fast Attack / Heavy support. This can also change depending on what codex you are using.

And Unbound is play whatever you have handy.

[Beorning]

Thank you :) Once more, you're being most helpful.

I have a more general question now: what's the role of vehicles in the game? The battlefields aren't extremely big... So, what's the advantage of units entering a vehicle a rolling a few inches forward in them?

And a small question: how many weapons can a single unit carry? I ask, because in the army list there's often mention that a model can replace "one of its weapons" with this or that. But most of the Sisters are equipped with one weapon: a bolter. At least the models suggest that, because in the codex even ordinary Sisters are listed as having both a bolter and a bolt pistol... I'm a bit confused here...

[TheGlyphstone]

Infantry have a base move of 6" in most cases, and can usually run for a variable +d6. A vehicle transport has a base move of 12". When your battlefield is 48" wide (the tournament standard) with 24-36" of open ground between deployment areas, that is a massive speed increase for your close combat troops.

Infantry are vulnerable to any weapon in the game if the shooter rolls lucky and they fail their armor saves. Vehicles are invincible to weapons whose Strength+1d6 (typically) isn't high enough to at least equal the Armor Value of that facing. They also, except in bad luck, require multiple instances of damage before losing functionality, where the average infantry unit dies if they are wounded.

Infantry, barring special support squads, typically get a big-gun ratio of 1/5 or 1/10. Vehicles not used as transports always mount the biggest, nastiest guns that army has access to, bigger than any troop squad can tote around with them.

Infantry are baseline. They take and hold ground, get stuck in with other infantry. Vehicles are support, either rapid deployment aids or semi-mobile bunkers with extremely heavy firepower.

[HairyHeretic]

Thank you :) Once more, you're being most helpful.

I have a more general question now: what's the role of vehicles in the game? The battlefields aren't extremely big... So, what's the advantage of units entering a vehicle a rolling a few inches forward in them?

Fast moving vehciles allow for you to contest objectives, generally by shooting large holes in the troops guarding them :) Or get into position to hit the weaker side/rear armour on heavier vehicles.

Troop transports get your infantry where they need to be a lot faster. If your troops are close combat specialists, with short ranged weapons, this is kinda important.

And a small question: how many weapons can a single unit carry? I ask, because in the army list there's often mention that a model can replace "one of its weapons" with this or that. But most of the Sisters are equipped with one weapon: a bolter. At least the models suggest that, because in the codex even ordinary Sisters are listed as having both a bolter and a bolt pistol... I'm a bit confused here...

Basic troops its mostly 1 close combat weapon and 1 ranged weapon. Close combat troops will favour pistols and blades over basic shooting weapons. Unit champions and commanders can normally take a few other weapon options.

[Beorning]

Okay, I guess that vehicles make sense, then...

BTW. What does Dedicated Transport mean, exactly?

Basic troops its mostly 1 close combat weapon and 1 ranged weapon. Close combat troops will favour pistols and blades over basic shooting weapons. Unit champions and commanders can normally take a few other weapon options.

So, if the wargear for a Sister is listed as "boltgun, bolt pistol, frag grenades", that's exactly what she's carrying? Even if the actual mini is not holding a pistol?