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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 52958 times)

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Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #925 on: January 24, 2015, 12:40:21 PM »
I see. Thank you!

BTW. I just started reading the rulebook and I have a question: is there a characteristic (or something else) that decides how far can a model move during the movement phase? Or do all models move up to 6'' and there's no variation?

6" for infantry
up to 12" for jetpack units (if they don't use their jumppacks ie. due to terrain. They use regular infantry rules)
6" for walkers
18" - 36" inches for fliers (THEY HAVE TO MOVE! I know so many people who forget this)
6" for monstrous creatures
artillery 12"
Flying monstrous 12" - 24" (have to fly)

I can't remember the rest by heart as I don't really need it in a regular game with the people I play with

EDIT: This is all without taking Run and Charge rules into account
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 12:43:26 PM by A Japanese Dane »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #926 on: January 24, 2015, 03:52:01 PM »
Ah, I see. Thank you :)

Phew... I read the rules today, but my brain started sizzling in the middle of the Assault Phase chapter. This is one complicated game :)

I have a question regarding Charges... From what I read, you roll 2D6 to get Charge Range. Then, you try moving the initial charger to the nearest mini in the unit being charged. If it turns out to be our of Charge Range, the initial charger is put back to where it came from, right? It doesn't move at all and the rest of the unit neither, right? Do I understand that correctly?

Also, I have request: some of you play Imperial Guard, I suppose. Could you post the characteristics of an average IG soldier? I wonder how they compare against the Sisters...

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #927 on: January 24, 2015, 04:00:52 PM »
Also, I have request: some of you play Imperial Guard, I suppose. Could you post the characteristics of an average IG soldier? I wonder how they compare against the Sisters...

Basic guardsmen have the same WS but lower BS (3) than Sisters. Other than that they're almost completely the same, except for one point lower in leadership (7) and a 5+ armour save versus the Sister 3+. They also don't have the army-wide 6++ invul save that Sisters do. However, Sisters don't have access to quite the same amount of special and heavy weapons that a baseline guardsmen squad does, including grenade launchers, plasma guns, autocannons, missile launchers, lascannons, mortars. Also, on almost all accounts except for points cost, their dedicated transport of a Chimera is better than a Rhino. Guardsmen are also incredibly cheap, at an average of 5 points a model.

Astra Militarum, as they're now called, are probably a much better army than Sisters will ever be, because of the abundance of ranged blast, the sheer weight of numbers, and the fact that the sisters need to remain between 1" and 12" from the enemy to maximise efficiency, whereas Imperial Guard usually have superior firepower from 12" to 960". When I want to have a chance of winning I bring my guard army to the table, not my sisters =P

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #928 on: January 24, 2015, 04:56:31 PM »
Basic guardsmen have the same WS but lower BS (3) than Sisters. Other than that they're almost completely the same, except for one point lower in leadership (7) and a 5+ armour save versus the Sister 3+. They also don't have the army-wide 6++ invul save that Sisters do. However, Sisters don't have access to quite the same amount of special and heavy weapons that a baseline guardsmen squad does, including grenade launchers, plasma guns, autocannons, missile launchers, lascannons, mortars. Also, on almost all accounts except for points cost, their dedicated transport of a Chimera is better than a Rhino. Guardsmen are also incredibly cheap, at an average of 5 points a model.

Astra Militarum, as they're now called, are probably a much better army than Sisters will ever be, because of the abundance of ranged blast, the sheer weight of numbers, and the fact that the sisters need to remain between 1" and 12" from the enemy to maximise efficiency, whereas Imperial Guard usually have superior firepower from 12" to 960". When I want to have a chance of winning I bring my guard army to the table, not my sisters =P

When I want to win, I bring my Manta *is killed for bad Apocalypse jokes*

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #929 on: January 24, 2015, 05:03:06 PM »
When I want to win, I bring my Manta *is killed for bad Apocalypse jokes*

When I want to win, I don't play against Tau >.<

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #930 on: January 24, 2015, 05:06:38 PM »
When I want to win, I don't play against Tau >.<

Yeah, Astra Militarum gets sorta wrecked against tau, at least in my experience

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #931 on: January 24, 2015, 05:10:22 PM »
They're Imperial Guard, GW's obsession with copyrighting everything under the sun be damned. ;D


Granted, my army is a Gue'vesa auxiliary regiment, so they're not even 'Imperial' guard anyways, but it's a matter of principle dagnabbit!

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #932 on: January 24, 2015, 05:14:40 PM »
Oh the glorious rules for this baby :D

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #933 on: January 24, 2015, 05:29:15 PM »
Oh the glorious rules for this baby :D

Also the glorious 1000 quid you have to drop on it =P

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #934 on: January 24, 2015, 05:30:11 PM »
Also the glorious 1000 quid you have to drop on it =P

Anniversary gift from my hubby for our second anniversary :D

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #935 on: January 24, 2015, 05:38:05 PM »
Anniversary gift from my hubby for our second anniversary :D

Welp.

Time to find a husband.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #936 on: January 24, 2015, 05:50:22 PM »
Welp.

Time to find a husband.

To be fair, it wasn't bought at full prize, it was like... 60% off or something, it wasn't through Forgeworld themselves, one of the guys from the shop we played in at the time had bought 4 of them by accident and decided to sell off the one he didn't need, so yeah :P it was only like 200 - 350

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #937 on: January 24, 2015, 05:54:13 PM »
To be fair, it wasn't bought at full prize, it was like... 60% off or something, it wasn't through Forgeworld themselves, one of the guys from the shop we played in at the time had bought 4 of them by accident and decided to sell off the one he didn't need, so yeah :P it was only like 200 - 350

Bought 4. By accident. Spent 2000GBP/3000USD more than he meant to, no harm done... :o :o

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #938 on: January 24, 2015, 05:56:33 PM »
Bought 4. By accident. Spent 2000GBP/3000USD more than he meant to, no harm done... :o :o

For a moment, I thought Countess was referring to in-game money/points.   O_O  Does it come with all the troops?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 05:58:57 PM by Oniya »

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #939 on: January 24, 2015, 05:58:53 PM »
Bought 4. By accident. Spent 2000GBP/3000USD more than he meant to, no harm done... :o :o

He had a loooot of mony after his grandfather died apparently, and didn't really check his bank accounts that closely back then, no need to say that changed after this little mistake

EDIT: The kit includes two Devilfish, two Hammerheads, eight Battlesuits and six Gun Drones
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 06:00:30 PM by A Japanese Dane »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #940 on: January 24, 2015, 06:31:49 PM »
Basic guardsmen have the same WS but lower BS (3) than Sisters. Other than that they're almost completely the same, except for one point lower in leadership (7) and a 5+ armour save versus the Sister 3+. They also don't have the army-wide 6++ invul save that Sisters do. However, Sisters don't have access to quite the same amount of special and heavy weapons that a baseline guardsmen squad does, including grenade launchers, plasma guns, autocannons, missile launchers, lascannons, mortars. Also, on almost all accounts except for points cost, their dedicated transport of a Chimera is better than a Rhino. Guardsmen are also incredibly cheap, at an average of 5 points a model.

Hmmm. And I thought that Sisters were supposed to be badass..?

BTW. Countess, I have a question about Exorcists: in the codex I own, the stats for them say that their missile launcher is just Heavy D6. But it's a missile launcher... so, shouldn't it also have Blast, or something?

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #941 on: January 24, 2015, 06:34:37 PM »
Hmmm. And I thought that Sisters were supposed to be badass..?

BTW. Countess, I have a question about Exorcists: in the codex I own, the stats for them say that their missile launcher is just Heavy D6. But it's a missile launcher... so, shouldn't it also have Blast, or something?

Everyone's a badass in their own special snowflake way in this setting haha.

Well, I guess Exorcists fire special armour piercing missiles so they don't have blast. And Heavy D6 is nothing to sniff at; it's one of the best weapons in the codex, what with it being str8ap1.


Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #942 on: January 24, 2015, 06:44:42 PM »
Hmmm. And I thought that Sisters were supposed to be badass..?

BTW. Countess, I have a question about Exorcists: in the codex I own, the stats for them say that their missile launcher is just Heavy D6. But it's a missile launcher... so, shouldn't it also have Blast, or something?

GW fluff and GW rules are notoriously divergent at times, and every edition is different. So while the stories and universe always depict their viewpoint side as badass, the tabletop itself sways wildly depending on the current combination of base rules plus most recent codex.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #943 on: January 24, 2015, 06:44:52 PM »
Everyone's a badass in their own special snowflake way in this setting haha.

Yeah, but I thought that Sisters would be better trained than your average Imperial soldiers? They are raised to be warriors, after all, not just some random recruits... All of the fluff surrounding them makes them look like an elite force. I thought that their stats would reflect that...

Quote
Well, I guess Exorcists fire special armour piercing missiles so they don't have blast. And Heavy D6 is nothing to sniff at; it's one of the best weapons in the codex, what with it being str8ap1.

True. I was just surprised: even an ordinary, hand-carried missile launcher has Blast. So, what the heck is that thing on Exorcist - a set of heavy bolters?

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #944 on: January 24, 2015, 07:34:43 PM »
Don't forget, Sisters of Battle are ( to my knowledge anyway ) not actually genetically engineered superhumans. They're just humans in really big armor, with better training and firm conviction. And they're still Toughness 4, if I'm not reading off the wrong unit. So they are better!

Also, 3 BS vs. 4 BS may not sound like a huge difference, but it's a pretty big difference in-game ( very few things go above 5 ). Also, they have stronger weapons, meaning the average sister will be killing a lot more things than the average guardsman. Now, you could probably take something like 4 guardsmen for every 1 sister, and they may not be perfectly balanced - that depends on the size of the game in general, as well as other factors.

Tau are sort of similar. A Fire Warrior has only BS3, which is weird for a race dedicated to shooting things. It's basically a balance thing in their case, because they can offset this by using markerlights - and their weapons are absolutely devastating, at S5. Which basically means that while their pretty lousy shots, they're much more likely to kill things if they hit.

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #945 on: January 24, 2015, 07:43:22 PM »
Don't forget, Sisters of Battle are ( to my knowledge anyway ) not actually genetically engineered superhumans. They're just humans in really big armor, with better training and firm conviction. And they're still Toughness 4, if I'm not reading off the wrong unit. So they are better!

Also, 3 BS vs. 4 BS may not sound like a huge difference, but it's a pretty big difference in-game ( very few things go above 5 ). Also, they have stronger weapons, meaning the average sister will be killing a lot more things than the average guardsman. Now, you could probably take something like 4 guardsmen for every 1 sister, and they may not be perfectly balanced - that depends on the size of the game in general, as well as other factors.

Tau are sort of similar. A Fire Warrior has only BS3, which is weird for a race dedicated to shooting things. It's basically a balance thing in their case, because they can offset this by using markerlights - and their weapons are absolutely devastating, at S5. Which basically means that while their pretty lousy shots, they're much more likely to kill things if they hit.

Sisters are toughness 3; everything in the Codex is toughness 3; even Saint Celestine, Heiromartyr of the Palatine Crusade is toughness 3 =P

Guardsmen baseline have an incredibly tough time killing a sister - essentially, in shooting, they have almost the same chance to take down a sister as they do with a space marine. It's the sheer volume of fire and the special weapons that makes Imperial Guard effective.

Yeah, but I thought that Sisters would be better trained than your average Imperial soldiers? They are raised to be warriors, after all, not just some random recruits... All of the fluff surrounding them makes them look like an elite force. I thought that their stats would reflect that...

True. I was just surprised: even an ordinary, hand-carried missile launcher has Blast. So, what the heck is that thing on Exorcist - a set of heavy bolters?

Sisters have Faith powers =D they're not quite what they used to be back in 4th Edition, but they're still something. Also they have power armour, which supposedly requires a ton of training, as does their bolter.

Exorcist has the pipe organ that shoots missiles out of the pipes. Haven't you seen the missile? Also, missile launchers can fire frag or krak missiles - the latter doesn't have a blast.

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #946 on: January 24, 2015, 08:50:55 PM »
Sisters are toughness 3; everything in the Codex is toughness 3; even Saint Celestine, Heiromartyr of the Palatine Crusade is toughness 3 =P

Guardsmen baseline have an incredibly tough time killing a sister - essentially, in shooting, they have almost the same chance to take down a sister as they do with a space marine. It's the sheer volume of fire and the special weapons that makes Imperial Guard effective.

Which is what makes sense anyway, from a fluff perspective. With T4, they'd be harder to kill than Space Marines, which would make no sense.

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #947 on: January 25, 2015, 06:22:49 AM »
They are raised to be warriors, after all, not just some random recruits... All of the fluff surrounding them makes them look like an elite force. I thought that their stats would reflect that...

This is fluff rather than gameplay related but Imperial Guard aren't necessarily "random recruits". To take the most obvious example, recruits from Cadia have been trained from birth to be soldiers, going through a routine that is basically a more hardcore and over-the-top version of how Spartans were trained.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #948 on: January 25, 2015, 11:38:21 AM »
Okay then - out of curiosity, does anyone have stats for some Dark Eldar soldiers and for Daemons (says, Daemonettes)?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #949 on: January 25, 2015, 11:56:13 AM »
If I remember correctly, the 'base' Dark Eldar statline for a Warrior is a 3 spread, but higher WS and I and Leadership. But DE rely very heavily on specialized troops with higher stats in their specialty focus, so providing an actual average is much harder. Armies like the IG or Sisters tend to use a unified baseline, improved only for elite troops or commanders, and differentiate by means of wargear.