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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53509 times)

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Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #825 on: January 03, 2015, 11:00:16 AM »
Psychically yes but now they have personality. The Deceiver wanted mindless killing machines. Not things that could question the C'tan or make their own decisions.

@Darkling - Why are people talking about them finally getting lore? They always had lore. Their personalities came from the C'tan. Ward added very little. The whole "Tomb-Cron" thing just weakened their place in the fluff and made the C'tan much less of a threat.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #826 on: January 03, 2015, 01:31:10 PM »
It does however give the players something more to identify with.

Most of the 40k players I know tend to have signiture characters, and identify quite strongly with them, writing fluff about tabletop games and so on.

Giving the Necrons personalities, or at least the possibility of personalities gives that ability to Necron players now. Tyranids are about the only ones still lacking in that regard.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #827 on: January 03, 2015, 02:14:58 PM »
I don't know any 40k players who do that. Weird.

Plus the Necron Lords always had personalities. That was what made them the leaders. They were still intelligent. Just loyal to the C'tan.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #828 on: January 03, 2015, 03:01:53 PM »
I don't know any 40k players who do that. Weird.

Plus the Necron Lords always had personalities. That was what made them the leaders. They were still intelligent. Just loyal to the C'tan.

I seem to remember the old codex only mentioning them being Energy foci for the other Necrons to function

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #829 on: January 03, 2015, 03:11:30 PM »
The older fluff always had them as intelligent. They were the leaders.

Offline Sain

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #830 on: January 03, 2015, 04:07:50 PM »
Just adding a quick necron fanboi comment here.

That loyal to the C'tan part was just so heavy in the old fluff that it felt like they were just slave AI's and all the intelligence was used solely to better direct the armies. The current necron lore is just so amazing to fan of the race :D Especially with internal politics, intelligent servants (with the crypteks being even smarter than necron lords and lychguards being pretty much equal to necron lords) there can be so many different characters. All those scenarios where necron lords end up sending polite invitations, requests to leave an area and such are just [insert word to express squee here]. Can even use them in roleplays now *dances of joy*

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #831 on: January 03, 2015, 04:11:10 PM »
Just adding a quick necron fanboi comment here.

That loyal to the C'tan part was just so heavy in the old fluff that it felt like they were just slave AI's and all the intelligence was used solely to better direct the armies. The current necron lore is just so amazing to fan of the race :D Especially with internal politics, intelligent servants (with the crypteks being even smarter than necron lords and lychguards being pretty much equal to necron lords) there can be so many different characters. All those scenarios where necron lords end up sending polite invitations, requests to leave an area and such are just [insert word to express squee here]. Can even use them in roleplays now *dances of joy*

O_O OMFG! WE NEED A NECRON ROLEPLAY NOW!

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #832 on: January 03, 2015, 04:17:02 PM »
You mean "Troll"zyn the Infinite and Orikan the Timelord right? :P Just kidding of course, those are my two favourite, my hubby learned of their new lore and instantly went out and bought like... 1000 worth of Necron stuff because he loooooves tomb kings, and as you said, Tomb Kings in space :D

Actually, I was thinking of Nemesor Zandreyk, actually. There's just something awesome about a tactician who's so brilliant that even when completely senile, he can still win a battle by repeating one of his old strategems.

Trollzyn is so awesome as to speak for himself. Orikan is kinda neat, but his whole thing seems to be inevitably making the situation worse than if he'd never tampered with history at all - appropriate to 40K, but makes him look like an idiot.



DMH: Honest question, but is there anything you do like about 40K's fluff progression? You don't like the new races they've added from whole cloth in 3e onward, or the changes they've made to existing races post-2e.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 04:19:28 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #833 on: January 03, 2015, 04:28:45 PM »
Actually, I was thinking of Nemesor Zandreyk, actually. There's just something awesome about a tactician who's so brilliant that even when completely senile, he can still win a battle by repeating one of his old strategems.

That and he has the sickest badass of a bodyguard ever

Offline Sain

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #834 on: January 03, 2015, 04:36:42 PM »
Wasn't Orikan the one that traveled in time just to change past so that his previously failed prophecy would get fulfilled? It's that sort of pettiness along with the aforementioned senility that really makes them feel so nice now (at least to me). They're like this big family of archaic British aristocracy where everyone knows everyone, respects each other and is still more than prepared to back stab anyone for their own goals. In a way their squabbles seem even pettier than those of some human factions in the lore, because the necrons in reality wouldn't really need anything at all. They could live happily ever after inside a friggin tesseract labyrinth forever and behave in a way appropriate for a species as advanced as them, but no. Instead the majority of them choose to be major assholes. I really hope any future lore updates will focus on some infighting within and between their dynasties more so we could see in detail how slow exactly is the plot advance in their political scheming and what are the limits. Do the most deprived of them sacrifice entire planets for the plots or is the honor and their own species always more important.

@Japanese Dane. It's a pretty niche idea to get a proper dynasty politics game going x) However, seeing such an eager reaction I'm somewhat tempted to give it a try...

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #835 on: January 03, 2015, 04:41:12 PM »
A Song of Gauss and Tesla: Game of Tombs?

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #836 on: January 03, 2015, 04:44:37 PM »
A Song of Gauss and Tesla: Game of Tombs?

A Dance with Mag'ladroth

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #837 on: January 03, 2015, 04:48:47 PM »
So... there's *time travel* in WH40K?

BTW. I'm surprised to read about all these dynasties of Necrons etc. When I read about them on WH40K wikis, I got the impression that they were a monolithic race of murderous robots...

Offline Sain

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #838 on: January 03, 2015, 04:50:28 PM »
Haha those names would certainly set the right mood.

Maybe the wiki is a bit outdated, or the people who write it want to cling to the old flavour :P They are still a race of murderous robots of course, but with class.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #839 on: January 03, 2015, 04:53:15 PM »
So... there's *time travel* in WH40K?

BTW. I'm surprised to read about all these dynasties of Necrons etc. When I read about them on WH40K wikis, I got the impression that they were a monolithic race of murderous robots...

More precisely we have one Necron (maybe more) who has the power to travel back in time, which he uses to make sure his predictions come true. Orikan is a dick :P

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #840 on: January 03, 2015, 04:54:04 PM »
So... there's *time travel* in WH40K?

BTW. I'm surprised to read about all these dynasties of Necrons etc. When I read about them on WH40K wikis, I got the impression that they were a monolithic race of murderous robots...

That was the old, 3e fluff. When they got rewritten for 5e, they were given internal distinctions. The vast majority of their infantry are still mindless robots, but it was changed so that the higher-ranking models kept increasingly more parts of their personality, and the budget-Dalek compulsion to exterminate all life got relegated away to a subfaction within the race. So a person who, for some reason, liked the old army fluff could play the exact same army with the single modification that it's a full Destroyer Cult.

More precisely we have one Necron (maybe more) who has the power to travel back in time, which he uses to make sure his predictions come true. Orikan is a dick :P

And even more specifically, GRIMDARK means that while he does make his prophecies come true via time travel, the outcome is always worse for him/the Necrons than if he'd never meddled in the first place.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #841 on: January 03, 2015, 04:55:53 PM »
More precisely we have one Necron (maybe more) who has the power to travel back in time, which he uses to make sure his predictions come true. Orikan is a dick :P
Isnt it also implied that he is/has a personal Shard?

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #842 on: January 03, 2015, 04:59:37 PM »
That was the old, 3e fluff. When they got rewritten for 5e, they were given internal distinctions. The vast majority of their infantry are still mindless robots, but it was changed so that the higher-ranking models kept increasingly more parts of their personality, and the budget-Dalek compulsion to exterminate all life got relegated away to a subfaction within the race. So a person who, for some reason, liked the old army fluff could play the exact same army with the single modification that it's a full Destroyer Cult.

and then there's also Zandreyk who is so senile he doesn't realize he's a killer robot, and his body guard whom I showed has gotten so tired of telling him that he just stopped.

Offline Sain

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #843 on: January 03, 2015, 05:08:01 PM »
And even more specifically, GRIMDARK means that while he does make his prophecies come true via time travel, the outcome is always worse for him/the Necrons than if he'd never meddled in the first place.

I find it utterly preposterous to suggest that it might have been a mistake on Orikan's part. Being always correct is such a rare and valuable trait these days that small sacrifices to retain the ability are more than justified.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #844 on: January 03, 2015, 05:15:30 PM »
DMH: Honest question, but is there anything you do like about 40K's fluff progression? You don't like the new races they've added from whole cloth in 3e onward, or the changes they've made to existing races post-2e.

Tau, Dark Eldar, Necron, and Ultramarines are my only issues. Anything Matt Ward touched can rot. I'm a huge fan of what is being done with the Salamanders and Blood Angels. Honestly most Space Marine Chapters outside the Space Smurfs. The Tyranid stuff is awesome. Eldar are my absolute favorite. If I could only rp as a Fire Dragon Aspect Warrior...

And to be fair I don't really hate the Tau. I just don't think they fit. Ultramarines just irritate me thanks to their overpowered terrible Ward fluff. I dislike adding politics and that kind of thing to the Necron but that's a matter of taste. They just feel very generic to me with the new fluff. Too much Tomb King and too little unique to them anymore. Plus I auto hate anything with time travel.

The Dark Eldar can burn in the fires of the Adeptus Sororitas though.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #845 on: January 04, 2015, 07:42:45 AM »
The Dark Eldar don't really bother me that much. Eldar nature was to take everything to the extreme, prior to the Fall. The Dark Eldar are a reflection of that, coupled with the high tech and typical Eldar arrogance that is perfectly happy to sacrafice a million lesser lives to save one Eldar one.

The Tau I think do fit in the 40k universe .. it is a big universe after all. And while they may have started off fairly innocent, running into the Imperium, the Dark Eldar, Chaos, the Tyranids, that's going to open their eyes in a big way. Does that mean they may start using nastier tactics? Sure. From their perspective, The Greater Good can sometimes demand harsh sacrafices, and the loss of a few individuals is necessary for the whole to prosper.

I think perhaps though the Squats could have been resurrected instead of bringing in the Tau. Or perhaps in conjunction with them. You have the high technology angle without the mysticism that the Imperium invests in it.

Speaking of which, anyone else been seeing the rumours that we might have an AdMech army coming out for 40k?

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #846 on: January 04, 2015, 08:08:11 AM »
The Dark Eldar don't really bother me that much. Eldar nature was to take everything to the extreme, prior to the Fall. The Dark Eldar are a reflection of that, coupled with the high tech and typical Eldar arrogance that is perfectly happy to sacrafice a million lesser lives to save one Eldar one.

The Tau I think do fit in the 40k universe .. it is a big universe after all. And while they may have started off fairly innocent, running into the Imperium, the Dark Eldar, Chaos, the Tyranids, that's going to open their eyes in a big way. Does that mean they may start using nastier tactics? Sure. From their perspective, The Greater Good can sometimes demand harsh sacrafices, and the loss of a few individuals is necessary for the whole to prosper.

I think perhaps though the Squats could have been resurrected instead of bringing in the Tau. Or perhaps in conjunction with them. You have the high technology angle without the mysticism that the Imperium invests in it.

Speaking of which, anyone else been seeing the rumours that we might have an AdMech army coming out for 40k?

I am excited beyond belief for these rumours to be true :D

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #847 on: January 04, 2015, 08:15:52 AM »
With all the stuff that's been done for the AdMech via the Forgeworld Horus Heresy sets, I can definitely see the army being greenlighted. Especially if they did a combined AdMech / Dark Mechanicus codex, as I think a lot of kits could easily cross over and work for both sides with minimal additional parts.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #848 on: January 04, 2015, 08:24:40 AM »
With all the stuff that's been done for the AdMech via the Forgeworld Horus Heresy sets, I can definitely see the army being greenlighted. Especially if they did a combined AdMech / Dark Mechanicus codex, as I think a lot of kits could easily cross over and work for both sides with minimal additional parts.

speaking of kits. Best remodel ever

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #849 on: January 04, 2015, 08:51:47 AM »
I remember a couple of Slaaneshi vehicles I saw years ago, a basilisk and a rhino, both remodeled to be .. anatomically correct ;)

The rhino had a deamonette hanging off the piercing that graced the side hatch. The blast template for the basilisk had been covered in thick white paint.

The general comments were along the lines of "Dude, that is so wrong."  ;D