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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53431 times)

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Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #775 on: December 31, 2014, 04:45:16 AM »
Just want to point ot that the ecclesiarchy went to Fenris to check if the Fenrisians worship false gods. Which according to the Space Wolf novels, they technically do, but with the Allfather aka. Big papa Emprah being the chief of their pantheon, with Russ being just below him

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #776 on: December 31, 2014, 06:04:04 AM »
Fallen Grey Knights? Now this is new fluff that I've not heard of before. Do elaborate.

I saw a comment about this elsewhere yesterday. Apparently there's a new Black Library audio drama that hints about possible fallen GK corruption. I haven't listened to it, so couldn't tell you if there is or not.

Given that Primarchs have fallen to Chaos, I don't see the Grey Knights being invulnerable. Sooner or later, it will happen. Slaughtering SoBs for their blood and wandering round the Eye of Terror for centuries are pretty good starters down that path :P

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #777 on: December 31, 2014, 08:46:58 AM »
Quote
Given that Primarchs have fallen to Chaos, I don't see the Grey Knights being invulnerable. Sooner or later, it will happen. Slaughtering SoBs for their blood and wandering round the Eye of Terror for centuries are pretty good starters down that path :P

Grey Knights wandering around the Eye of Terror for centuries would have purified the Eye of Terror, duh.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #778 on: December 31, 2014, 09:27:40 AM »
Thankfully there's only been one doing that, and the sooner that imbicility gets written back out of canon, the better.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #779 on: December 31, 2014, 09:30:29 AM »
Thankfully there's only been one doing that, and the sooner that imbicility gets written back out of canon, the better.

Actually, he's been doing non-Mary Sue stuff recently, and even got his butt kicked by some daemons of the ruinous powers. But yeah, fuck Kaldor Draigo

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #780 on: December 31, 2014, 11:03:30 AM »
On an entirely different note, here's some more of what I've been working on lately.

 

My flaymaster. I covered the gap between the two parts of his coat / robe with a thin strip of greenstuff, to make a belt, and I think it works fairly well. Adding the severed heads and pouches make it look the part.

 

My Sorcerer. Really happy with how this guy turned out. His right arm is from the plastic chaos knights set, cut down a bit to make a staff. The assorted impaled skulls came off the vehicle accessories and the smaller ones from one of the chaos knight helms. I thought they looked a bit silly on the helmet, but they work on the backpack. Legs, torso and left hand came from the Sternguard set. I got one of those as a present, and am using the bits conversions for on dozens of my Night Lords.

I seem to recall some GK bits in my FLGS bits bin that might work well with him, small books and scrolls and stuff to add to the belt.

 

Another Obliteration team, and a Warpsmith to go with them. You can't see it in this pic, his gun is a combi-grav from the Sternguard

 



And lastly the Aspiring Champion for my Wild Hunt themed biker claw. I used more of the Chaos Knight parts here, but they didn't work as well as I hoped. The legs carry a Marines torso too far back, and it leaves a gap you have to fill in with green stuff. I was able to cover it over as well with the pouches. It doesn't look as obvious in person as it does here, and will be less so when I get round to painting it too.

I think the rest of the biker claw will probably just use the standard marine bodies, and see what I can do with them to fit the theme.

I plan on doing a Dark Apostle as well. While I loathe the Word Bearers, having a Night Lord responsible for sending the slave fodder into battle makes sense. Plus these guys can pull double duty if I want to use a different codex.

Still need to do a proper Chaos Lord, but since Forge World teased the picture of First Captain Sevatar, I'm thinking of waiting to see what that will be like. I'll likely end up coverting something else in the meantime. I enjoy converting, even if I'm not so keen on the painting side of things.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #781 on: January 02, 2015, 05:51:27 AM »


Just thought we needed a bit of Tau in the thread :P

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #782 on: January 02, 2015, 10:10:18 AM »
Oh, wow. Somebody worked hard on that Gif...

BTW. Is it me, or are the Tau the only good guys in this setting?

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #783 on: January 02, 2015, 10:18:39 AM »
Oh, wow. Somebody worked hard on that Gif...

BTW. Is it me, or are the Tau the only good guys in this setting?

Good guys as in much as they're, as 1d4chan puts it, Naive "Weeaboo Space Communists" who just happen to chemically sterilise SOME of the people of the planets they take.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #784 on: January 02, 2015, 10:57:26 AM »
Well, considering what the Imperium does, that doesn't sound *that* bad, actually...

Which kind of annoys me, as I'd like the Imperium to be the good guys :) But the Tau really seem to have the moral high ground here...

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #785 on: January 02, 2015, 11:30:09 AM »
Well, considering what the Imperium does, that doesn't sound *that* bad, actually...

Which kind of annoys me, as I'd like the Imperium to be the good guys :) But the Tau really seem to have the moral high ground here...
They also rule through mind control. The Ethreals mindfuck everyone around them, and for special cases, they have Goa'uld style mind-worms that they will stick in the heads of important 'converts'.

They also only exist because the Imperium is busy. Like, thats literally it. If it wasnt for the nids arriving when they did, the Tau would be nothing more than a footnote in imperial history and a campaign badge on a few chapter and regimental standards. They have not the power, or mindset to survive in the 41th millennium.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #786 on: January 02, 2015, 12:17:45 PM »
I've never liked the Tau as a 40k race. They would work in basically any other sci-fi setting but they really don't seem to fit 40k. The Imperium was always meant to be the good guys because their enemies were worse but bring in the Tau and that goes out the window. It's just a dissonant element for me. Not a major one and they aren't even my least favorite race (that would be the thrice damned Dark Eldar) but still dissonant.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #787 on: January 02, 2015, 03:24:01 PM »
Which is part of why 40K has been grimdarkifying the hell out of them since their introduction in 3rd edition, they were just too bright and happy and good. It's been like watching the Tau Empire go through its rebellious teenager phase

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #788 on: January 02, 2015, 03:27:44 PM »
If they know they don't fit they should just send them the way of the Squats.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #789 on: January 02, 2015, 03:56:10 PM »
And lose the sleek, graceful-yet-still-mechanical mecha model market? Or for that matter, the general use of the Tau Empires list as a dumping ground for every 'speciality'/minor alien race they want to sell models for but can't justify a full codex?

Squats were killed as a marketing decision. Their dwarfs-in-space biker motif was too one-note and narrow, and they didn't have any other thematic ground to expand into. It wasn't because their niche was inappropriate to the universe so much as they had been squeezed out of the niche they occupied and thus had no reason to stay around.

And they didn't stay dead, anyways. The Demiurge are pretty much the reborn Squats, part of...wait for it...the Tau Empires Battlefleet Gothic fleet list.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #790 on: January 02, 2015, 04:01:15 PM »
That's my problem with the Tau. They are purely a commercial thing without any real connection to the fluff. If Games Workshop would just clear them out - and murder the shit out of the Dark Eldar while they are at it - I would be quite content.

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #791 on: January 02, 2015, 04:07:07 PM »
I understand why you'd dislike the Tau, even though they have hilarious bits of fluff (like the time when they thought they killed slaanesh, oh god) but why don't you like the dark eldar?

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #792 on: January 02, 2015, 04:10:22 PM »
Because they are trying way too hard to be eeeeeeeeeevvvvvviiiiillll. Technology and psychic thirst based off of pain. Everything they have is sharp and cruel. Everywhere they live is decadent and dark. It's what a 14 year old drow fan would imagine once he heard about S&M.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #793 on: January 02, 2015, 04:14:28 PM »
Keep in mind that describes most of the 40K universe at some point or another, having no connection to the fluff until they were added. Rogue Trader, 40K 1e, didn't even mention the forces of Chaos, they had to wait till an expansion book. It did have Squats, Zoats, and Space Slann though. The only alien army from 1e that still exists now is the Space Orks, Tyranids got a handful of minor mentions with no actual list. Eldar didn't exist at all until 2nd edition, and Dark Eldar were only differentiated from normal Eldar in 3rd. Necrons first appeared as a single unit in a White Dwarf at the end of 2e, got an army list in 3rd, and the current 5e Necrons are nearly unrecognizable from their first iteration.

So having no prior connection to the fluff is hardly a barrier to entry to the 40K universe, if precedent is allowed. Eldar, to pick one, were blatantly and unambiguously a port of Fantasy's High Elves into the 40Kverse, to the point of sharing significant amounts of fluff and even re-using certain model molds - pretty big commercial connections there too. You definitely don't have to like the Tau, but they've got as much right to be around (now) as the more venerable factions.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #794 on: January 02, 2015, 04:26:19 PM »
Except that their fluff is just terrible and doesn't fit the setting.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #795 on: January 02, 2015, 04:51:09 PM »
ELVES IN SPAAAAAAAAACE probably didn't fit very well either at first, any more than 3e Tau did. By now, Tau Empires has been grittied and dirtied enough that it's not the pristine abberation it was.

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #796 on: January 02, 2015, 04:56:21 PM »
But the Eldar kind of did fit in - especially since they were tied into the universe backstory, and they had a darker side to them with a long history of interaction with all the other major races. In comparison, the Tau are just new, high tech people whose special standing point is that they are new. They're even psychically less significant, which makes them have even less interaction with the other parts of the 40k setting. In comparison to the rest of 40k, they're pretty clean and nice - brainwashing some of their client races doesn't cut it.

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #797 on: January 02, 2015, 04:57:05 PM »
What the Countess said.

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #798 on: January 02, 2015, 05:28:13 PM »
But the Eldar kind of did fit in - especially since they were tied into the universe backstory, and they had a darker side to them with a long history of interaction with all the other major races. In comparison, the Tau are just new, high tech people whose special standing point is that they are new. They're even psychically less significant, which makes them have even less interaction with the other parts of the 40k setting. In comparison to the rest of 40k, they're pretty clean and nice - brainwashing some of their client races doesn't cut it.

But that's now... after nearly three decades of fluff development. When the Eldar first appeared they had no connection to the universes' backstory (other than the fact that they and humans were genetically similar... since largely retconned) and were little more than raiders (who basically did what the Dark Eldar do now) and occasional traders who were tolerated by some of the Imperium and occasionally hired as body guards and mercenaries. Self-sustaining Craftworlds were mentioned... but there was no reference to why they were needed or anything else. It wasn't until years later that things we'd consider core to the Eldar today and what really ties them into the wider universe (dying race, the Fall, the birth of Slaanesh, Waystones, the retcon of Infinity Circuits, Aspect Shrines, death of their Gods etc etc) appeared in the fluff.

In their first appearances the Eldar were nothing more than elves in space (in fact they were originally called elves) and mimiced the existing fantasy elf races almost entirely; the raiders were dark/evil elves, the mercenaries and traders were "normal" elves and the Exodites were wood elves. They had no real links to the Imperium and no relevance to the wider story or universe outside of being there.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #799 on: January 02, 2015, 05:32:08 PM »
I understand why you'd dislike the Tau, even though they have hilarious bits of fluff (like the time when they thought they killed slaanesh, oh god) but why don't you like the dark eldar?
Killed what? I avoid them like the plague so Ive not heard that one, care to tell, or point me in the right direction?

I mean, I know they rolled out a red carpet for the Necrons (guess how that went) and agreed to a cultural exchange with the Dark Eldar (guess how that went :P), that they think (or thought, been a while) that Imperium Vs Chaos was a 'civil war', and that they got their hands on a perfectly workable Imperial Warp Drive, only to conclude only someone who was pants-on-head insane would use such a thing. But I never heard the one where they thought they killed a Chaos God?