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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53417 times)

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Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #525 on: November 03, 2014, 09:21:37 AM »
Thank you for explaining Eternal Warrior to me, Glyph :)

Here's a random thought: could Neil Gaiman know of WH40K? Because in the previous season of Dr Who, he penned an episode that took place in far future. And in this future, there was a mighty Emperor of a human empire... as well as a war against an alien threat. A war that resulted in whole sections of the galaxy being blown up...

Now that I think about it, it really did feel a little like a more optimistic take on the WH40K universe :)

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #526 on: November 03, 2014, 09:32:30 AM »
The 1e of the game came out in 1987, the same year Neil Gaiman started his post-journalism writing career. So yeah, I'm pretty confident Gaiman has heard of it at least once or twice.

Then again, you could be looking at accidental convergence. "Space Empire + Future + War vs. Aliens" isn't a terribly original mix of ideas. 40K makes itself unique by cranking everything up to self-parodying levels of absurdity then taking itself absolutely seriously, but the core themes are well-worn staples of science fiction and have been for a long time.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #527 on: November 03, 2014, 10:08:46 AM »
Yeah, but it's the absurdity levels I'm referring to.  :-) In that episode, one character points to the sky and the big black area on it when there are no stars at all. And then, he says that the Emperor blew this whole area up during the war with the Cybermen...

And then, one Cyberman activates on one planet... and the Empire's strategy is to blow the whole planet up. Just to be sure :)

I mean, I know it's most probably an accident... but it did feel a bit like WH40K :)

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #528 on: November 03, 2014, 12:24:36 PM »
Neil Gaiman has always struck me as someone with his fingers on the pulse of the sci-fi/fantasy community.  Considering the popularity of tabletop and miniature games in that demographic, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd at least hovered near a game or two - possibly while GoH-ing at a convention.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #529 on: November 03, 2014, 12:53:00 PM »
Heh. I googled around and it looks like I'm not the only one who seems to see WH40K allusions in that episode...

Of course, I suppose it's all coincidential. Still, if people can see WH40K in Event Horizon, then I can say that this particular episode might be seen as Who / WH40K crossover  ;D If you squint your eyes a little, that is...

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #530 on: November 03, 2014, 12:55:51 PM »
Heh. I googled around and it looks like I'm not the only one who seems to see WH40K allusions in that episode...

Of course, I suppose it's all coincidential. Still, if people can see WH40K in Event Horizon, then I can say that this particular episode might be seen as Who / WH40K crossover  ;D If you squint your eyes a little, that is...

Or maybe just WH40K?

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #531 on: November 03, 2014, 02:14:50 PM »
Heh  ;D

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #532 on: November 03, 2014, 03:41:24 PM »
40k has drawn on lots of other sci fi and fantasy influences over the years, would it be so surprising others might draw on it?

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #533 on: November 03, 2014, 08:55:53 PM »
Wow, I need to pay more regular attention to this thread.  Chaos player here!  Yes, Dark Vengeance chaos forces are meant to be Crimson Slaughter based on the included fluff.  Truth is, in spite of the fact their color scheme is lots of reds, they aren't Khornate.  They're actually a renegade faction that's been possessed by daemonic forces and all sorts of nasty spirits.  They are not devoted to any one particular chaos god at all.  If you're interested in going down the Chaos Space Marine rabbit hole, go ahead and pick up the Crimson Slaughter supplement while you're at it.  It's fantastic, especially compared to the disappointing Black Legion supplement.  (I painted my army Black Legion colors :( )  Black Legion kinda has rules going every which direction, but Crimson Slaughter is heavily melee-centric.  The central focus on one thing makes it a lot more useful in my opinion.  If you want to sprinkle a little range, you can have a separate detachment of standard CSM's or even go nuts with Daemons.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #534 on: November 05, 2014, 02:15:32 PM »
Now that the daemons were mentioned, I was wondering: can I make an army composed of daemons of different allegiances? Say, a combined Nurgle / Slaanesh army?

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #535 on: November 05, 2014, 03:08:37 PM »
Sure can! The only minuses in doing so is independent characters can only join units aligned to their god, and it increases the likelihood of bad stuff to hit you on the warp storm table. Other than that, play ball.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #536 on: November 05, 2014, 04:07:33 PM »
I was wondering: how does it relate to daemon HQs? I haven't read their codex, but I suppose that daemon armies need HQs, too. So, what if the army's HQ is Champion of Slaanesh? Would Nurgle-aligned daemons follow such a HQ, or do they need a HQ of their own?

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #537 on: November 05, 2014, 04:19:13 PM »
Even if it doesn't make sense fluff-wise, you could have a Lord of Change (Tzeentch) command units of Plaguebearers (Nurgle) even though they hate each other and have rules to reflect it. Daemon HQ's are greater daemons (Bloodthirsters, Great Unclean Ones, Keepers of Secrets, and Lords of Change) their unique named equivalents, or Heralds of (God here) and their named equivalents. Heralds can form command squads of up to 4 heralds that take up a single HQ slot as they're really just souped up lesser daemons.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #538 on: November 05, 2014, 05:08:42 PM »
Ah, I see. Thanks!

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #539 on: November 05, 2014, 06:50:03 PM »
Even if it doesn't make sense fluff-wise, you could have a Lord of Change (Tzeentch) command units of Plaguebearers (Nurgle) even though they hate each other and have rules to reflect it.

Just expect dirty looks from some players if you do ignore the fluff like that :P

Daemon HQ's are greater daemons (Bloodthirsters, Great Unclean Ones, Keepers of Secrets, and Lords of Change) their unique named equivalents, or Heralds of (God here) and their named equivalents. Heralds can form command squads of up to 4 heralds that take up a single HQ slot as they're really just souped up lesser daemons.

Though with the new deamonic psychic powers that everyone can take, you can always field a standard Chaos force, and summon deamons anyway.

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #540 on: November 05, 2014, 06:56:41 PM »
A creative enough mind can justify the choice.  I could argue in my example that the Lord of Change, true to its master, tricked the Plaguebearers to be fodder while it worked on something more sinister.

Also, not to split hairs, every psyker have access to summoning daemons except Grey Knights, and doing so is particularly dangerous except for daemons themselves.  I usually pack a unit of Pink Horrors dedicated to summoning reinforcements whenever I field my daemons.  Sometimes I go pure Chaos Space Marines as they were my first army.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #541 on: November 06, 2014, 08:45:07 AM »
A creative enough mind can justify the choice.  I could argue in my example that the Lord of Change, true to its master, tricked the Plaguebearers to be fodder while it worked on something more sinister.

Perhaps, but I've been a Chaos player since Rogue Trader and the original Realm of Chaos books. While a LoC could certainly trick PBs into being fodder, having it on the same battlefield is a no go for me. Same with a Khorne / Slaanesh team up. Others are welcome to do what they want, I simply wouldn't.

Also, not to split hairs, every psyker have access to summoning daemons except Grey Knights, and doing so is particularly dangerous except for daemons themselves.  I usually pack a unit of Pink Horrors dedicated to summoning reinforcements whenever I field my daemons.  Sometimes I go pure Chaos Space Marines as they were my first army.

True, GKs can't, but they're the only psyckers that can't summon deamons. And as for the danger, what part of summon deamons sounded safe to start with? :P

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #542 on: November 06, 2014, 08:59:15 AM »
I like to run Plague Marines and a squad of Slaanesh-marked marines so they can tote a Banner of Excess for Feel No Pain. I had an opponent once dub them "Team VD"

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #543 on: November 06, 2014, 10:35:41 AM »
Just expect dirty looks from some players if you do ignore the fluff like that :P

Soooo... how would you approach a Daemon army? Would you be building it with daemons of one god only?

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #544 on: November 06, 2014, 10:52:25 AM »
There are a few approaches you could take.

1 - One power only.

2 - Non opposed powers.
Khorne and either Nurgle or Tzeentch (but not both)
Slaanesh and either Nurgle or Tzeentch (but not both)

3 - Take an allied contingent of Chaos Space Marines (Sorcerer and his bodyguard) and say that he has summoned whichever deamons you want to field. Taking, say, a Word Bearers sorcerer would fit with taking deamons from any or all of the different powers, since they worship Chaos in the undivided form.

4 - Field what you want regardless. It's your army after all :)

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #545 on: November 06, 2014, 08:03:27 PM »
Mono-god is a popular choice.  Actually, a major tournament they had in Chicago last year was won by a guy with a mono-Tzeentch army.  Daemon Princes of Tzeentch with Warp-forged armor rocks.  They have a 3+ armor save and reroll 1's, being Tzeentchian.  So effectively, unless against AP3 weapons, they only suffer a wound on a 2.

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #546 on: November 06, 2014, 08:06:36 PM »
God, that sounds broken. I thought 1s always being failures was one of the rules you could actually rely on!

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #547 on: November 06, 2014, 08:16:39 PM »
Give them wings as well and keep them in the sky.  I know they're melee powerhouses, but you'll be hard pressed to do any lasting damage to them while they vector strike troops down below while raining psychic fire.  Bonus points if you're lucky enough to score Life Leech from Biomancy to heal themselves as well.

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #548 on: November 06, 2014, 08:20:26 PM »
I think I smell ... what's that ... Munster? Gouda? It's some type of cheese, anyway.

No, but seriously. That sounds horrible. And evil. But then again. AP3 isn't all that rare.

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #549 on: November 06, 2014, 08:46:04 PM »
Nope!  Sure isn't!  And I'm more than a little ok with that.  Everything has its counter, and I play for the fun of it.  I'd rather have a fun story to tell about the battle afterward instead of another tally in the W column.