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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53214 times)

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Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #450 on: October 23, 2014, 04:21:38 PM »
I had some glorious moments in Space Hulk today. Nothing that quite made up for losing my Hammer-and-Shield Sergeant to a lone genestealer, though.

It's a really difficult game to actually win. Well, that's been my experience so far. I won once as Genestealers, and my one game as Space Marines ended in a draw. That said, I'm still learning the rules, and discovering new things all the time. Like how brutal the heavy flamer can be ( I discovered very early what a beast the assault cannon was ). Can't wait to try some of the later missions, with other objectives.

Offline Kevben Battleheart

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #451 on: October 23, 2014, 04:28:38 PM »
I don't think I know any wargamer who has painted everything they have.

I'm beginning to suspect its some sort of law of nature :)
Sounds about right. But I do know of a wargamer whose gone and made a Ork Gargant I think, one of the Orks equivalent of a Titan, out of a Mr. Potato Head. You honestly wouldn't notice him if someone didn't tell you. Gonna have to see if I can get some pics of it to show.
I'll be waiting for the pictures!

BTW. Regarding the SABLE problem: so, what do you do with unpainted models? Do you keep them in parts and unused, or do you glue them together and play with them unpainted?

As I mentioned elsewhere, I may be asking for Dark Vengeance for Christmas... but it has a lot of models. Considering that I'm painting one model a week, then it might take another year before I'm ready to play. So, maybe I should just glue everything together and play unpainted... But aren't glued models harder to paint?
Parts I'm not using tend to get thrown into my little bitz box for whenever I want to add a little something different to my models. Like for example I have a Blood Claw equipped with a power fist and decided to throw a genestealer head into the fist, since his hand is open, to kinda indicate that he had ripped the head off.

As for if glued models are harder to paint, I honestly don't know. All I've ever done is paint my models after I've put them together, but I think it would be up to personal preference. Although as Hariy pointed out there will be some hard to reach areas.

Online Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #452 on: October 23, 2014, 05:02:17 PM »
One thing I've seen recommended is to do at least the base color before gluing.  That way you avoid having any bare metal/plastic in those hard-to-reach areas.

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #453 on: October 23, 2014, 08:42:19 PM »
Sounds about right. But I do know of a wargamer whose gone and made a Ork Gargant I think, one of the Orks equivalent of a Titan, out of a Mr. Potato Head. You honestly wouldn't notice him if someone didn't tell you. Gonna have to see if I can get some pics of it to show.

Pretty sure I've seen it. And it would be a Stompa. A Gargant would probably be about 3-4 feet tall, and a great gargant maybe another foot or two on top of that.

I've seen some very good, and very funny conversions over the years. One of the most .. interesting .. was the anatomically correct Slaaneshi basilisk. I'll let you figure out what it looked like for yourself ;)

Offline Winsted

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #454 on: October 23, 2014, 08:52:38 PM »
Just discovered this thread.  I'm fairly new to the universe (little over a year) and have been playing ever since.  I play Chaos (both flavors) and think it's a real hoot!  My buddy twisted my arm for over a year to get me into the mini's hobby and he finally convinced me to join the plastic-crack side after forcing me to sit down and read the fluff portion of the rulebook.  I've been hooked ever since.  I mostly play the wargame, but I do have a copy of Dark Heresy as well.  I need to finish it and get a few games in. 

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #455 on: October 24, 2014, 08:47:45 AM »
Found the setting I needed to get a better shot :)







Most of the work is done on this guy, and while it's not perfect, I'm happy enough with it. The apothicary greave was a little finnicky, as I was just using a standard arm, but the fit seems okay.

The robes were a pain, and if I do them again I think I'll probably try a slightly different approach, and see if I can do the entire thing as one piece. The line between the two pieces is a lot more visible now, but I can probably find some way around that. If I do the coat / robes up as flayed skin I can probably carve some more patchwork details into it, and it should look better then.

I still want to add a few more small pieces, depending what I have in my bits box. If I can find a holstered pistol I'll probably add that to the chest / waist area. Maybe a tabard too. I think I have one from the sternguard set that normally hangs from a shoulder pad that would probably work okay there. And see if I can find a few trophies, severed heads or skulls. This is supposed to be someone the rest of the Night Lords think is a fscking psychopath, so he should look the part :)

Parts used:
Standard CSM legs.
Bererker torso with the rune filed off
Right arm from new plastic raptor set
Left arm from I think standard Marine tac squad.
Apothicary kit created from a bolter, chainsword and missle, all cut down down
Knife was a claw from a Space Wolf lightning claw .. it's supposed to be a scalpel he wields, so I wanted something smaller and thinner than a combat knife.
Shoulder pads from Marine kit (not sure which one, I got it from FLGS bits box) and 3rd party
Backpack .. old chaos .. sorcerer maybe? I wanted something more ornate
Head from FW Night Raptors

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #456 on: October 24, 2014, 05:11:27 PM »
My buddy twisted my arm for over a year to get me into the mini's hobby and he finally convinced me to join the plastic-crack side after forcing me to sit down and read the fluff portion of the rulebook.

I wonder... would I be missing much by not reading that part of the rulebook? As I mentioned, I plan on buying Dark Vengeance, which has the rules-only version of the rulebook....

Found the setting I needed to get a better shot :)

So, who is this guy? Tell me... :)

BTW. Does he have an oversized (mutated?) hand? Or is it just an armour?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #457 on: October 24, 2014, 07:05:52 PM »
I wonder... would I be missing much by not reading that part of the rulebook? As I mentioned, I plan on buying Dark Vengeance, which has the rules-only version of the rulebook....

In my opinion, you would. The background for 40k is very rich, and knowing the ins and outs of at least your own chosen faction, if not the wider galaxy is a good thing :) A lot of it can be read online mind you.

So, who is this guy? Tell me... :)

My take on this guy

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mawdrym_Llansahai

He's a character in the Horus Heresy books from Forgeworld. Even by the Night Lords standards he's considered a psychopath :)

There's no model for him (yet) and no rules in the 40k setting, but I could probably use him as a regular HQ type, or maybe the rules for Fabius Bile. Even the Heresy ones, if no one objected.

I think what I might do is use a little more greenstuff to make a belt to cover the join in the two pieces there. As well as covering that, it will give me something obvious to hang severed heads and other items from.

BTW. Does he have an oversized (mutated?) hand? Or is it just an armour?

Lightning claw.

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #458 on: October 24, 2014, 07:34:29 PM »
I wonder... would I be missing much by not reading that part of the rulebook? As I mentioned, I plan on buying Dark Vengeance, which has the rules-only version of the rulebook....

Yes and no.

Obviously the fluff's not important to the gameplay in and of itself but it does tend to make things more enjoyable; it helps you really get a feel for the universe and races in general, explains why each race/army takes the approach it does and gives you something other than min/maxing (i.e. building the most powerful army you can within the rules, generally called being "beardy") when you pick your army.

On the other hand a lot of the fluff is basically available online between the main two 40K Wikias... it's not necessarily as convenient as a fluffbook (or as comfy to snuggle up in bed with) and some of it is truncated but it is there.

Offline Sabby

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #459 on: October 25, 2014, 08:47:51 AM »
What do ya get when you combine Warhammer and Transformers?

About 40k an hour.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #460 on: October 25, 2014, 02:30:49 PM »
What do ya get when you combine Warhammer and Transformers?

About 40k an hour.

Huh? :)

In my opinion, you would. The background for 40k is very rich, and knowing the ins and outs of at least your own chosen faction, if not the wider galaxy is a good thing :) A lot of it can be read online mind you.

Question, then: I also plan on getting Dark Heresy and Black Crusade RPGs. I suppose that these books contain WH40K fluff, too. Would I need the main WH40K rulebook's fluff, then, have I read these two books?

Quote
My take on this guy

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mawdrym_Llansahai

He's a character in the Horus Heresy books from Forgeworld. Even by the Night Lords standards he's considered a psychopath :)

Ah, this guy. I remember you mentioning him before. It's interesting that he's considered a psychopath among the NLs... From what I read about them, the NLs are quite bloodthirsty in themselves :)

Quote
I think what I might do is use a little more greenstuff to make a belt to cover the join in the two pieces there. As well as covering that, it will give me something obvious to hang severed heads and other items from.

That could be a good idea, I think. Right now, the join is a bit obvious...

Anyway, I'd like to see this guy painted :)

Quote
Lightning claw.

So, there's no giant palm underneath it? I was wondering if this guy was mutated or something...

BTW. Are there mutants in WH40K? Chaos mutants? The CSMs look a bit mutated in the art...

Offline Changingsaint

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #461 on: October 25, 2014, 02:35:23 PM »
Oh yes, there are many, many, many mutants in 40k. From simply being born with a third arm, to being 'blessed' by the chaos gods that you're no longer recognizably human. mutation in the setting is almost always a sign of chaos influence.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #462 on: October 25, 2014, 02:43:24 PM »
Huh? :)

Question, then: I also plan on getting Dark Heresy and Black Crusade RPGs. I suppose that these books contain WH40K fluff, too. Would I need the main WH40K rulebook's fluff, then, have I read these two books?


Probably. DH and BC have fluff, but they work on the assumption that you already know or just don't care about the details of the main setting; their contents make what allusions are necessary for continuity, but otherwise have a narrow focus on the specific aspects of the setting relevant to that particular game (Inquisition agents for DH, Chaos for Black Crusade).

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #463 on: October 25, 2014, 04:25:03 PM »
Probably. DH and BC have fluff, but they work on the assumption that you already know or just don't care about the details of the main setting; their contents make what allusions are necessary for continuity, but otherwise have a narrow focus on the specific aspects of the setting relevant to that particular game (Inquisition agents for DH, Chaos for Black Crusade).

Really? I thought that these games dont't require prior setting knowledge and would provide some general overview.

If they don't, then I might need to buy the full WH40K rulebook after all...  :-\

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #464 on: October 25, 2014, 04:40:17 PM »
Question, then: I also plan on getting Dark Heresy and Black Crusade RPGs. I suppose that these books contain WH40K fluff, too. Would I need the main WH40K rulebook's fluff, then, have I read these two books?

There is a massive amount of fluff in the 40k universe, and no one book will cover more than a part of it. The one from the core set will give a lot of basic stuff, but it's aimed to give an intro to someone new to the game. Each codex will give more detailed background on the particular faction that it's for. And a lot of the novels also add  elements that become part of the background over time.

Ah, this guy. I remember you mentioning him before. It's interesting that he's considered a psychopath among the NLs... From what I read about them, the NLs are quite bloodthirsty in themselves :)

Oh, they are. Think about mixing Batmans knowledge of the effects of fear with the Jokers out and out psychopathy and you're along the right lines for the Night Lords.

And this guy is someone the rest of the Night Lords think has gone way off the deep end. He's under a suspended death sentence, his gauntlets dyed red to mark that for everyone to see.

That could be a good idea, I think. Right now, the join is a bit obvious...

Yeah. But that's the thing, when you try new stuff, sometimes it works out the way you planned, sometimes it doesn't. I could always rip the model apart and start again. That's part of the reason I use regular superglue over the stuff that bonds plastic. If I don't like how something has turned out, I can take it apart and try again.

Anyway, I'd like to see this guy painted :)

Haven't done a painting test piece yet.

Painting is always the last thing on my list :P

So, there's no giant palm underneath it? I was wondering if this guy was mutated or something...

Nope. Lightning claws and powerfists use oversized hand pieces.

BTW. Are there mutants in WH40K? Chaos mutants? The CSMs look a bit mutated in the art...

Plenty of them.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_and_the_Damned

The old Realm of Chaos books used to have a d1000 table of random mutations that you could roll up for your Chaos troops (this was about 20 years ago, give or take). I had one particular Champion of Khorne who received the *ahem* reward mutation - fear of blood.

What this particular 'gift' did was for any wound taken within 2" of him, he had to pass a Cool check (kinda like Leadership, there were more stats in those days) or faint for a few rounds.

However, he was still a Champion of Khorne, which meant he tended to frenzy at every opportunity, slaughter everything around him, see the blood, scream like a little girl and pass out.

On the other end of the spectrum was my Lord of Khorne who received the reward of Technology. This was in Fantasy, not 40k, keep in mind. Khorne gifted him with a multimelta. 36" range, 3" blast template, and a Ballistic skill of 9.

So, you're at long range, behind hard cover .. I still hit you on a 2. And a reroll if I miss. And I kill each model on 2s. Unit of 30 spear elves? *WHOOSH* Not no more there ain't.

And the Bloodthirsters axe contained another bound Bloodthirster, that you could release. There was a chance it would kill everything instead of just your opponent, but you know .. Chaos. It does exactly what it says on the tin :)

The only fair fight for a Realm of Chaos chaos army was another Realm of Chaos chaos army :)

« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 06:25:29 PM by HairyHeretic »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #465 on: October 25, 2014, 05:39:56 PM »
There is a massive amount of fluff in the 40k universe, and no one book will cover more than a part of it. The one from the core set will give a lot of basic stuff, but it's aimed to give an intro to someone new to the game. Each codex will give more detailed background on the particular faction that it's for. And a lot of the novels also add  elements that become part of the background over time.

Hm. I've read some basics on the Wikis... Now I wonder if I need a book that would give me basics. I don't want to spend $70 on a book that would contain the same fluff I've already read...

Is the fluff in the core rulebook well-written? Does it give you an idea of the setting's mood? Because I'm still not sure in what mood should I imagine this world. Some prose pieces I've read are very deep and moody, but some of minis are actually quite comic-booky...

Overall, I'm now quite confused as to what to buy  ::)

Quote
And this guy is someone the rest of the Night Lords think has gone way off the deep end. He's under a suspended death sentence, his gauntlets dyed red to mark that for everyone to see.

So... what exactly did he do?

Quote
The old Realm of Chaos books used to have a d1000 table of random mutations that you could roll up for your Chaos troops (this was about 20 years ago, give or take). I had one particular Champion of Khorne who received the *ahem* reward mutation - fear of blood.

What this particular 'gift' did was for any would taken within 2" of him, he had to pass a Cool check (kinda like Leadership, there were more stats in those days) or faint for a few rounds.

However, he was still a Champion of Khorne, which meant he tended to frenzy at every opportunity, slaughter everything around him, see the blood, scream like a little girl and pass out.

 ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 05:42:37 PM by Beorning »

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #466 on: October 25, 2014, 06:25:02 PM »
Hm. I've read some basics on the Wikis... Now I wonder if I need a book that would give me basics. I don't want to spend $70 on a book that would contain the same fluff I've already read...

That's perfectly understandable.

Is the fluff in the core rulebook well-written? Does it give you an idea of the setting's mood? Because I'm still not sure in what mood should I imagine this world. Some prose pieces I've read are very deep and moody, but some of minis are actually quite comic-booky...

Some of the writing can be quite light hearted too. Take the Commissar Cain novels for instance. They're a wonderfully entertaining read, but they're nowhere near as grimdark as, say, Dan Abnetts Inquisition books, or ADBs Night Lords ones. I think the most amusing stuff I've read was the Deff Skwadren grapic novel, about an Ork fight-bomba squadron.

Fluff, like rules, comes in variable quality. Some is excellent, some *cough*MattWard*cough* should be retconned right back out of existance and forgotten about, some is very much a matter of taste.

Overall, I'm now quite confused as to what to buy  ::)

Everything ;)

We don't mention the addictive drugs they make the models out of til it's too late for your wallet ;)

In this regard though eBay may be your friend. You ought to be able to pick up older edition books for next to nothing, and if all you're after is the fluff, they're not a bad place to start.

So... what exactly did he do?

It doesn't say in detail, just that he was found to be'performing numerous unsanctioned vivisections and surgical experiments'. This was before the Heresy broke out. His entry goes on to say that 'on Isstvan V he worked unspeakable horrors upon the wounded and the dying of friend and foe alike."

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #467 on: October 25, 2014, 06:32:15 PM »
Really? I thought that these games dont't require prior setting knowledge and would provide some general overview.

If they don't, then I might need to buy the full WH40K rulebook after all...  :-\

They don't require prior setting knowledge, but what they tell you is focused on what you need to know to play. For example, Dark Heresy tells you lots of stuff about the Inquisition, its agents, and the sorts of problems they go around solving. There is an entire chapter -20+ pages - about the factions and traditions of the Imperial Inquisition, and how they go about their usual duties. But it tells you almost nothing of, say, the Horus Heresy. Though it's one of the most crucial events in the entire setting mythology, it doesn't even get a mention in the main DH rulebook because it's not directly relevant to playing the game (though there is a Skill that can be rolled to see if the character knows such stuff, it's not included in the book itself).

That's what I'm talking about.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #468 on: October 25, 2014, 08:30:55 PM »
Hm.

Here's a quick question: how long is the core rulebook, exactly? And how many pages of it are fluff?

Offline Kevben Battleheart

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #469 on: October 25, 2014, 08:45:25 PM »
Hm.

Here's a quick question: how long is the core rulebook, exactly? And how many pages of it are fluff?
If you mean for DH book then about 400 pages. As to how much is fluff...about a good solid 80 pages I think are fluff themselves, with a little bit sprinkled here and there in the other pages. Don't quote me on that as I'm just looking at the index page and recalling from memory what I can about looking through it.

And slightly off topic but still kinda on since it's 40k related, finally got my Stormwolf assembled and awaiting painting  ;D Can't wait to start throwing Blood Claws into my enemies face as I did the math. With a single charge, if you can get them all into an assault, then you can get around 60 hits with a full 15 squad of Blood Claws.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #470 on: October 26, 2014, 04:30:40 AM »
If you mean for DH book then about 400 pages. As to how much is fluff...about a good solid 80 pages I think are fluff themselves, with a little bit sprinkled here and there in the other pages. Don't quote me on that as I'm just looking at the index page and recalling from memory what I can about looking through it.

Actually, I meant WH40K rulebook, but that is helpful, too :)

Quote
And slightly off topic but still kinda on since it's 40k related, finally got my Stormwolf assembled and awaiting painting  ;D Can't wait to start throwing Blood Claws into my enemies face as I did the math. With a single charge, if you can get them all into an assault, then you can get around 60 hits with a full 15 squad of Blood Claws.

What's a Stormwolf? Show us photos :)

Offline Sabby

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #471 on: October 26, 2014, 07:15:59 AM »
Huh? :)

I'm guessing you have miles over there xD

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #472 on: October 26, 2014, 07:30:15 AM »
And slightly off topic but still kinda on since it's 40k related, finally got my Stormwolf assembled and awaiting painting  ;D Can't wait to start throwing Blood Claws into my enemies face as I did the math. With a single charge, if you can get them all into an assault, then you can get around 60 hits with a full 15 squad of Blood Claws.

Solid choice there. I went with all Grey Hunters, as I can't really support a Stormwolf in my current list. If I ever do decide to scale it up, I'll probably go with drop pod assault instead, what with Grey Hunters being better ( against most enemies ) if they can force the enemy to assault instead of assaulting themselves ( due to being ridiculously good at shooting, and able to thin out the ranks of an assaulting enemy ).

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #473 on: October 26, 2014, 01:27:17 PM »
Holy hell, how have missed this thread for months? O_O

I'm another one whos big on 40k and have been in it for years, though its been a few editions and almost a decade since i played the tabletop, I'm a avid fan of the RPGs and novels. (i literally have all the ones available, other than the RPG adventure books (obviously, as a player reading those would be cheating) and HH stuff).

To add my voice to a few salient points;
As has been mentioned, 40k is too massive for a single book to have all the information, 40k is very rich, deep and wide scale, broad strokes are easy enough, but the little details can also be surprisingly precise. The RPGs atleased are written for people who might be new to the setting, all of the Core books for each gameline (DH2 Core, BC Core, etc) often have two chapters with nothing but setting information, often one on the Imperium/setting in general and one on the location of the game in particular; BC has the Imperium and Screaming Vortex for example, while DH2 has the Imperium and Askellon. Between that and alittle light reading on the stetting, you get more than enough to play the game.

Honestly, if you want to get a 'easy' introduction to the setting, you can check out the TVTropes pages for whatever interests you; http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 (be warned, you will lose several days if you get too into reading it  ;) )

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #474 on: October 26, 2014, 02:55:15 PM »
I'm guessing you have miles over there xD

We do have kilometres. But I just don't get the joke..?

Holy hell, how have missed this thread for months? O_O

Well, hello there :)

*notices the Lady tag* You know, I'm relieved to see that there actually are women playing this game. While browsing stuff online, I keep hearing that it's a very masculine game and that the percentage of female WH40K players is 1:1000000...

Quote
As has been mentioned, 40k is too massive for a single book to have all the information, 40k is very rich, deep and wide scale, broad strokes are easy enough, but the little details can also be surprisingly precise. The RPGs atleased are written for people who might be new to the setting, all of the Core books for each gameline (DH2 Core, BC Core, etc) often have two chapters with nothing but setting information, often one on the Imperium/setting in general and one on the location of the game in particular; BC has the Imperium and Screaming Vortex for example, while DH2 has the Imperium and Askellon. Between that and alittle light reading on the stetting, you get more than enough to play the game.

I know that the online Wikis have a lot of information... But what I'm interested in is the setting's mood and style. It's not that easy to get these information from encyclopedic entries... and it's important. For example, a few years ago, I was browsing Wikipedia and White Wolf-related Wikis. I read on Changeling: the Lost and, from the general info, got an impression of the game. But, after getting the C:tL rulebook, it turned out that the game had a bit different mood and style than the ones I pictured from the online reading. The game was still awesome, but a different thing that I expected nevertheless...

That's why I'm thinking that, maybe, I should get that full WH40K rulebook. To finally read the official fluff and envision the setting correctly...