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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53553 times)

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Online Lustful Bride

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1600 on: January 23, 2016, 11:56:21 AM »
This is Insanely Awesome.

Are you a Heretic or a Traitor!?

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 11:58:08 AM by Lustful Bride »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1601 on: January 23, 2016, 03:18:22 PM »
You know, I'm reading FFG's Star Wars RPG books these days and I'm experiencing a... deja vu. There's an Empire, there are aliens that are being oppressed by this Empire - everything just as in WH40K, but reversed :)

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1602 on: January 23, 2016, 04:45:09 PM »
40K does and always had steal shamelessly from everything it could get its hands on with regards to sci-fi inspirational material.

Offline ChaoticSky

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1603 on: January 23, 2016, 05:02:52 PM »
40K does and always had steal shamelessly from everything it could get its hands on with regards to sci-fi inspirational material.
And is stolen from in turn. So goes the cycle.

Offline Changingsaint

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1604 on: January 23, 2016, 07:24:29 PM »
If you really wanna wheel back to where 40k takes its inspiration from, check out Nemesis the Warlock from 2000AD.

A tyrannical and fanatically religious empire of humanity travels through the stars, led by fearsome inquisitors hell bent on exterminating both alien and mutant life from the stars. Opposing them is a Demonic Chaos warlock names Nemesis.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1605 on: February 02, 2016, 06:53:41 PM »
I've heard of this series, but I haven't made the connection before... Interesting.

Okay guys, I have a question!

About the Primarchs. Are they immortal or long-lived?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1606 on: February 02, 2016, 07:05:50 PM »
That depends on your definition of long-lived - and, for that matter, your definition of immortal. The only true immortal among the primarchs is Vulkan; you kill him, and he will spontaneously come back to life. The others can at least be killed, and none of them lived long enough to know if they die of old age; Guilleman and El'Jonson are technically still alive, but they've been in stasis so it doesn't count. There's no evidence of any Space Marine dying of old age, but that's in large part because they get killed in battle first. So it's impossible to say for certain.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1607 on: February 02, 2016, 07:07:57 PM »
I'm asking, because I was reading through the WH40K timeline today and I noticed that the Horus Heresy seemed to have started about a thousand years after Horus' creation..?

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1608 on: February 02, 2016, 07:10:53 PM »
Chaos Marines have spent a long time in the warp, where time doesn't really mean a whole lot.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1609 on: February 02, 2016, 07:25:59 PM »
It was only about 250 years, actually.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M30
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M31

The Primarchs were created in 750.M30. Horus formally swore his loyalty to the Chaos Powers in 004.M31, so that's the 'beginning' of the Heresy. The Battle of Terra ended the Heresy in 014.M31, ten years later.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1610 on: February 02, 2016, 08:01:48 PM »
I see. Thanks :)

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1611 on: February 03, 2016, 03:45:30 AM »
*Shivers with excitement* Only a little over a month till Battlefleet Gothic: Armada. Space Hulk: Rise of the Terminators seems to be shaping up quite nicely too. We're gonna be spoiled for 40k this year it seems. t

Also, thought I'd share these three here



All done by the Blizzard Entertainment Artist Even Asmundsen

Offline arkhos

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1612 on: February 03, 2016, 08:37:32 AM »
*Shivers with excitement* Only a little over a month till Battlefleet Gothic: Armada. Space Hulk: Rise of the Terminators seems to be shaping up quite nicely too. We're gonna be spoiled for 40k this year it seems. t

Also, thought I'd share these three here

All done by the Blizzard Entertainment Artist Even Asmundsen


(Sigh) Harlequins. So awesomesauce. :)


Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1613 on: February 06, 2016, 01:23:57 PM »
So, I was reading through Enemies Without (a sourcebook on Inquisition's Ordo Xenos) today and I've found myself... mildly appaled.

You know, I can make to see the Inquisition point when it comes to the heretics. I can certainly see the point of them purging any kind of Chaos activity... But purging aliens? I don't know. That's one thing I can't justify. The way the Imperium just slaughters innocent lifeforms is... awful. I'm not sure I can get behind something like that in a RP...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1614 on: February 06, 2016, 01:31:43 PM »
We've been over this before, haven't we? Everyone in 40K is awful and terrible. All of the authorities are fanatical, brutal, intolerant, and/or corrupt. Even the Sisters, who you love cause space nuns  ;D, are obsessive zealots for whom the galaxy comes in two flavors - loyal human, or on fire.

Plus, aliens can be incredibly dangerous, as literally every spacefaring xenos race demonstrates. There is no 'innocent' for anyone in 40K, only varying degrees of guilt. Just because they're not dangerous to humanity now does not mean they won't become dangerous later. And if you wait until they are dangerous to wipe them out, it will put more human blood on your hands. Better to be safe and exterminate them before they are capable of killing people.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 01:39:31 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1615 on: February 06, 2016, 02:08:48 PM »
Yeah, I know we've been talking about this before. Still, today I was just... hit with it.

It's just hard for me to GM a game where you play on the side of an organisation that literally genocidal. For the same reason, I can't get into Black Crusade - because when I look at it, it basically seems to be a game about mass slaughtering of innocents...

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1616 on: February 06, 2016, 02:19:34 PM »
At least as the GM, you can choose what sort of critter you are sending your PCs up against.  Defeating something akin to the Borg in Star Trek, or the xenomorphs in Alien is far easier to justify since allowing it to survive is essentially a death sentence for anything it comes across.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1617 on: February 06, 2016, 02:33:55 PM »
That's true...

Okay, I have a question: we know that the Imperium believes in purging the aliens, exterminating the mutants etc. But... do you think they are right to do so? Is it supposed to be the objective truth that the humanity cannot coexist with aliens and mutants - or is it simply the matter of the Imperium being misguided?

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1618 on: February 06, 2016, 02:39:00 PM »
That's true...

Okay, I have a question: we know that the Imperium believes in purging the aliens, exterminating the mutants etc. But... do you think they are right to do so? Is it supposed to be the objective truth that the humanity cannot coexist with aliens and mutants - or is it simply the matter of the Imperium being misguided?

I think there used to be lore somewhere that there were aliens that were sanctioned and under the Imperium's rule. So not Every alien it seems, just those that would challenge Human dominance and the Imperium's place.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1619 on: February 06, 2016, 02:51:15 PM »
The Emperor himself was a human supremacist - during the Great Crusade, he ruthlessly exterminated any aliens he came across, because they were aliens and a planet occupied by aliens was one less planet available to humans. So they're very much still following in His footsteps there; if anything, the rare examples of sanctioned or otherwise tolerated Xenos, like the Jokaero, are a deviation from the Emperor's original plan. But generally yes, the only xenos allowed to live are the ones who can be used to benefit humanity's supremacy, or otherwise directly advance human interests above all else. And even then their sufferance is on a razor's edge and subject to revocation at any time.

As for if it's possible for sapient aliens and humans to live as equals? Not by example of literally every other canon xenos race in the setting that I can think of.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 02:55:14 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1620 on: February 06, 2016, 03:02:49 PM »
Jokaero. Who the heck are the Jokaero?

*goes googling*

Offline Changingsaint

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1621 on: February 06, 2016, 03:04:19 PM »
That's true...

Okay, I have a question: we know that the Imperium believes in purging the aliens, exterminating the mutants etc. But... do you think they are right to do so? Is it supposed to be the objective truth that the humanity cannot coexist with aliens and mutants - or is it simply the matter of the Imperium being misguided?

Most of the 'big' aliens are well, I don't want to say exterminating them is right, but you have to look at the big players.

Orks: A race utterly dedicated to war and killing because they see it as fun. Impossible to negotiate with.
Eldar: Farseers will gladly let a human star system burn to the ground to save a few thousand Eldar. Not impossible to negotiate with, but they don't like upstart monkeigh. Also, there are Dark Eldar and most imperials don't know the difference. Some animosity was garnered in the great crusade where Fulgrim slashed and burned many Eldar worlds.
Necrons: Either want to kill all organic life or take over the galaxy again. Pretty impossible to make a deal with.
Tyranids: Impossible to barter with.
Tau: Reasonable enough, but they clearly do shady and not good things to humans under their empire.

Now, there were the Interex who were humans who had close allies amongst Aliens, and other humans during the dark age of technology who allied with Aliens. The imperium wiped them out. Humans could work with some Aliens - but for the most part, the entire setting is skewed to where such alliances are meant to be fleeting at best, and the weak are consumed by the strong. And the Imperium wants to be strong, so aliens are killed on principle outside of ones that are harmlessly useful to them (The Jokaero)

Jokaero. Who the heck are the Jokaero?

*goes googling*

Orangutan-like aliens who have a strange knack for building microtechnology.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1622 on: February 06, 2016, 03:33:04 PM »
Don't try judging the Imperium by the standards of today. People throughout history have been perfectly happy to kill their own species over differences in skin colour, politics, where they were born, and any other criteria that allows a division between Us and Them. The 40k setting takes that kind of xenophobia and dials it up to 11.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1623 on: February 06, 2016, 04:07:33 PM »
I know... Still, it doesn't mean it's easy to actually RP such stuff.

Alright, another topic:

In some WH40K RP games (like Deathwatch or Black Crusade) there are limited options for character types. In BC, half of the basic archetypes are Chaos Space Marines. In Deathwatch, *all* of the characters are Space Marines. Isn't it a problem? I mean, how much diversity can there be among Space Marines? They are all big, strong guys with guns...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1624 on: February 06, 2016, 04:16:21 PM »
They're all big strong guys with guns, but Deathwatch - more than any other game - is about having people with different specialties working as a team and becoming better than the sum of their parts. Since everyone is a Space Marine by default, diversity is about what you know/do, not so much your inflated statline. The Assault Marine is going to have an entirely different skill set than the Tactical Marine. The Tactical Marine will provide different benefits to his allies than the Librarian. Even the Tactical Marine and the Devastator Marine will have very different approaches to problem solving despite both being ranged gun combatants, and possess unique skills and talents that make their more effective at their particular role. And a kill-team made of a Tactical, Assault, and Librarian will be far more effective than a team of three Assaults, or three Tacticals, or even three Librarians.

Black Crusade is even more diverse, because of allegiance and affinity. You can be a Marine or a Heretic, a Melee or Ranged or Psychic specialist, and follow one of four different Chaos Powers (five if you remain Unaligned), and combine all of these in any combination except Khorn+Psychic (admittedly Khorne+Ranged is almost as unlikely, but possible).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 04:18:17 PM by TheGlyphstone »