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The Elliquian Herald & Post
Issue 74 (Autumn) ~ August thru October 2017

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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 89405 times)

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Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1450 on: July 14, 2015, 06:38:29 PM »
Specifically, the Skaven deity of disease, pestilence, decay, and treachery (also the only Skaven deity, but that's not relevant).

You will notice this portfolio as being almost identical to Nurgle, with a touch of Tzeentch. No overlap with Slaanesh at all. So this makes even less sense than it could.


Offline arkhos

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1451 on: July 15, 2015, 01:08:43 AM »
Specifically, the Skaven deity of disease, pestilence, decay, and treachery (also the only Skaven deity, but that's not relevant).

You will notice this portfolio as being almost identical to Nurgle, with a touch of Tzeentch. No overlap with Slaanesh at all. So this makes even less sense than it could.

Selfishly, as a Skaven fan, I am thrilled to see the Horned Rat get his due.

As a regular player... this -really- makes no sense, and I really don't like it. Because you're right... there already -is- a Chaos power of decay/pestilence, and pigeonholing the Horned Rat into the pantheon really bugs me... mainly because I've always hated Chaos, but loved my rats. I know of their 'chaotic' origins, etc, but I've always considered them a completely separate society - they paid no homage to the 'big four', and they didn't traffic in daemonology (with the exception of the verminlord, of course! Kill-kill!)

But that's just me. I am waiting to see what their plan is for Slaanesh, but already, I am prepared for a massive face-palm.

-ark

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1452 on: July 15, 2015, 05:10:20 AM »
Each of the 4 Chaos Gods is unique, with fairly clearly defined portofolios. The Horned Rat is 2 parts Nurgle to 1 part Tzeentch. While it may be a power in it's own right, it's not a replacement for Slaanesh. For that matter, the Chaos Gods are jealous of their own power, and probably the only thing prevent Nurgle and Tzeentch from teaming up to layeth the smackdown on the new guy is the fact they hate each other more than they do him.

Maybe this is part of some exciting campaign plot line. If so, I can grudgingly accept that.

If this is just GW trying to pander to the kiddy audience, then no. I started with the Realms of Chaos, that were recommended for mature readers.

I don't play Slaanesh. I'm not particularly interested in Slaanesh. But I will not accept Slaanesh being written out of the lore the same way the Squats were.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1453 on: July 15, 2015, 08:43:46 AM »
Maybe some sort of Facebook petition is in order?

(I've heard these things have a lot of power these days)

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1454 on: July 15, 2015, 09:05:55 AM »
I doubt that would have overly much of an effect. The only thing likely to be listened to is money. If the game bombs, and there do seem to be a lot of polarised opinions about it, then it may well get written off, or retconned at some point.

My interest, in all honesty, is fairly minimal anyway. The last time I played fantasy was at least 2 or 3 editions ago, and I've thousands of points of Chaos mortals sitting in boxes since then.

Offline arkhos

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1455 on: July 15, 2015, 01:41:07 PM »
Each of the 4 Chaos Gods is unique, with fairly clearly defined portofolios. The Horned Rat is 2 parts Nurgle to 1 part Tzeentch. While it may be a power in it's own right, it's not a replacement for Slaanesh. For that matter, the Chaos Gods are jealous of their own power, and probably the only thing prevent Nurgle and Tzeentch from teaming up to layeth the smackdown on the new guy is the fact they hate each other more than they do him.

Maybe this is part of some exciting campaign plot line. If so, I can grudgingly accept that.

If this is just GW trying to pander to the kiddy audience, then no. I started with the Realms of Chaos, that were recommended for mature readers.

I don't play Slaanesh. I'm not particularly interested in Slaanesh. But I will not accept Slaanesh being written out of the lore the same way the Squats were.

I agree pretty much line for line. Then again, I really am not really thrilled with -any- of the new fluff so far. It feels so overly generic, as if it was written by a 12 year old.

From what I've seen, the whole Slaanesh disappearance -sounds- like it's a precursor to either his/her/its removal, OR some sort of massive re-design. There are literally countless predictions on various sites, but there has been the confirmed disappearance, and the confirmed ascendancy of the Horned Rat.

Like you, I am hoping that, at the very least, this is part of some sort of 'big campaign'. Without points-costs and whatnot, supposedly the focus is on scenario play, and as such, having some huge amount of campaign-based scenarios focusing on the 'return of Slaanesh' could be good. Time will tell.

And no, even though I dislike Chaos and have from the very beginning, I do -not- want to see any of the big four 'written off' like Squats, Zoats, Fimir, etc. -Especially- if it's for PC reasons, when the game lines GW sells deal with -mass slaughter- of epic proportions on a daily basis.

My interest is pretty high - I've been active with each edition since 3rd, but I am definitely going into it with an open mind. I have enjoyed the handful of games I've played so far, but me and my buds are very reasonable when it comes to force construction, and we create our own objectives, etc. Playing the game straight out the box, as presented, is very... lacking, in our opinion so far. But the coming months will be telling.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1456 on: July 16, 2015, 06:19:10 AM »
And on, for me, a much more positive note, new plastic Horus Heresy rumours. They're now saying November, which is longer than I'd like to wait for them, but these interest me far more than AoS ever could.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1457 on: July 27, 2015, 06:27:58 AM »
Images of some of the rumoured Horus Heresy plastics have been showing up online in the last day or so

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412055-Heresy-plastics

This seems to be the source.

Offline Dhi

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1458 on: July 28, 2015, 12:23:07 PM »
Who here paints?

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1459 on: July 28, 2015, 12:24:04 PM »
Not Warhammer, but I paint. And painting advice is largely mini-agnostic, so ... ^^

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1460 on: July 28, 2015, 12:55:24 PM »
I paint. At least, I try to. With bad results :D

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1461 on: July 28, 2015, 01:31:51 PM »
I paint to tabletop standard.

Offline Dhi

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1462 on: July 28, 2015, 03:17:00 PM »
Tabletop standard is such a hard category to define. Everything I paint is intended to show up on a tabletop, so I think it qualifies. In a broader sense, tabletop standard seems to mean "not the best I can do, but something I'm pleased with". If that's the case, then I try to expand the range of what I consider my tabletop standard each time. One of the YT painting channels I subscribe to recently had a piece on a saying, the price of perfection is prohibitive, and the art school advice that if you ever believe a piece is perfect, you've probably just resolved to move on. I came into miniature painting from a lifelong art education, so this was something already drilled into my head. It's more important to keep practicing and evolving than to chase perfection.

What does a tabletop standard involve for you?

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1463 on: July 28, 2015, 04:57:03 PM »
For me, it means I covered the mini and the shading is decent. If I'm feeling fancy, it means I applied inks and got a little crazy with the shading and the eyes and all.
By no means do I paint to competition standards. I'm happy enough to have them look better than the pre-painted minis.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1464 on: July 28, 2015, 06:19:25 PM »
Something that I'm happy to set down on the table for a game with. I know my stuff isn't going to win any painting prizes, but for me painting is something I have to do to get a model to a playable state, rather than something I want to do, and want to spend a lot of time doing. I love converting, but painting is a chore :)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1465 on: July 29, 2015, 09:18:19 AM »
For me, it means I covered the mini and the shading is decent. If I'm feeling fancy, it means I applied inks and got a little crazy with the shading and the eyes and all.
By no means do I paint to competition standards.

Heh. I have yet to get to the "shading" phase :) If "tabletop standard" means "shading", then I'm not at the tabletop standard. So, I shudder to think what "competition standard" is :)))

Anyway... Dhi, feel free to post some photos of your stuff here :)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 09:32:04 AM by Beorning »

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1466 on: July 29, 2015, 01:09:09 PM »
That's /my/ standard, Beorning. Your standard can be 'I covered the whole thing and I like it!' and no one is going to have a problem with that. ^^

Competition standards is just... they not only go for shading and highlights and lining and insane tiny details, but they actually /finish the bases/. Sometimes really elaborately. My mind just boggles. I'm not doing that. I just want to play with them, and you can't play with that, those are display pieces only.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1467 on: July 29, 2015, 01:36:08 PM »
That's /my/ standard, Beorning. Your standard can be 'I covered the whole thing and I like it!' and no one is going to have a problem with that. ^^

Well, I do happen to like how my minis look... ;)

(or do I? I seem to have lost inspiration for painting since my sister called the minis "idiotic". Hm...)

Quote
Competition standards is just... they not only go for shading and highlights and lining and insane tiny details, but they actually /finish the bases/. Sometimes really elaborately. My mind just boggles. I'm not doing that. I just want to play with them, and you can't play with that, those are display pieces only.

What do you mean by "finishing the bases"? My bases are finished, meaning they are painted :)

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1468 on: July 29, 2015, 02:21:46 PM »
Hm. Finished bases run the spectrum, but here's one from Reaper (I happened to have the forum open, it saved me a lot of googling): http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/warlord/latest/14673
whoever painted that flocked the base and added 'grass' and some other bits, so it looks like the archer's standing on a chunk of actual ground.

I don't go that far. If I have something that isn't stable, I'll stick it on a base, so it doesn't fall over every time someone looks at it funny, but I don't generally go to the trouble of making the base all fancy. If it's textured, I'll bring that up, but if not? Flat black, and that's good enough for anybody.

 ... and your sister can whistle. She doesn't have to like it, or approve of it. It's /your/ hobby. You don't have to be good at it, as long as you enjoy it.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1469 on: July 29, 2015, 02:55:44 PM »
Hm. Finished bases run the spectrum, but here's one from Reaper (I happened to have the forum open, it saved me a lot of googling): http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/warlord/latest/14673
whoever painted that flocked the base and added 'grass' and some other bits, so it looks like the archer's standing on a chunk of actual ground.

Ah, that sort of thing. I decided that I won't be bothering myself with details like that... maybe, sometime in the future, I'll add some grass or rubble, but that's a big "maybe".

Quote
I don't go that far. If I have something that isn't stable, I'll stick it on a base, so it doesn't fall over every time someone looks at it funny, but I don't generally go to the trouble of making the base all fancy. If it's textured, I'll bring that up, but if not? Flat black, and that's good enough for anybody.

I use "Parasite Brown" for ground, as I imagine WH40K battles as taking place in mud and dirt ;)

Quote
... and your sister can whistle. She doesn't have to like it, or approve of it. It's /your/ hobby. You don't have to be good at it, as long as you enjoy it.

I know, I know. And yet, somehow, her lack of approval hit me and I haven't painted anything since we had that argument...

Offline arkhos

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1470 on: July 29, 2015, 03:43:01 PM »
Yeah, lots of folks have a different idea what 'Tabletop quality' means. For me, it's pretty much meant anything that was below 'Show' or 'Competition' quality, and 'Unpainted'. So it's a pretty broad category. ;)

I only shade/detail/etc on important pieces - characters, special figs, etc. Grunts/basic troopers usually get the 'basic' treatment, and I spend more time on the pieces that attract more attention on the table. Or, if a piece is particularly cool, sometimes I feel the urge to put more work into it.

I -always- finish my bases, though. Some people don't care about the base, but I do. A little turf takes only a few minutes of time, and it really does 'finish' the piece, even for grunts and basic troops. I usually save up a few characters/units to all base at one time... not only does it save me time to do it all in one go, but then I am certain they will match up color and consistency-wise. :)
For special pieces, I like to get even more detailed with the base - or for bases for figs that are HUGE, where there's a lot of space, I love to add stuff whether it's rubble, rock, water effects, etc. You -could- sink hours into it, but 99% of the time, it takes me 2-3 minutes per base. Texturing adds a little bit of time since I use pumice and have to let it dry, but after that - 2-3 minutes and it's done.

I've never refused to play someone with unpainted figs (or bases), but I admit, I find it a lot more fun if they are. Not everyone in the hobby 'likes' painting, and I understand that. I love it, but I'm just slow as molasses in December. :)

-ark

Offline Dhi

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1471 on: July 29, 2015, 06:55:00 PM »
Anyway... Dhi, feel free to post some photos of your stuff here :)
I've thought about making a thread for my work, but it's hard to get motivated. There's hours of work involved in setting up and shooting, and I'm not motivated to impress anybody so much as I am to share my love of painting. Just talking about it is a lot more satisfying and requires less work. But, this weekend I'll see if I can set aside the time.

This is a commission WIP from 2010 I happen to already have online:

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1472 on: July 29, 2015, 07:05:19 PM »
Whatsherpants the Iconic Oracle! That is awesome, Dhi. I love all the bitty details, and that HAIR. Amazing!
I didn't know there was a metal version of that one. I have her in Bones, and I haven't gotten around to painting mine yet. ^^;

To wander back around to basing, the reason I don't generally bother to base mine is that, at least right now I'm painting a lot of Bones, and I can't be arsed to do a lot of extra work when I generally find that I like them as is, and when I stick an extra base to them, it's more for stability than looks (although me, a chunk of wood (pre-weighted and felted) and my Dremel might be getting into it for the metal PF Jabberwocky - that poor guy is so off-balance it's not even funny).
I might - maybe - take on some basing later, if I can find a good workshop. I've never done it, and I'd like to see it done a few times by someone I can pester with questions before I try it myself. ^^;

Offline Dhi

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1473 on: July 29, 2015, 09:30:13 PM »
Yep! Alahazra. I did most of the Pathfinder iconics as they launched in metal, back around 2010. I kept Kyra for myself since she was always my favorite iconic and represented my first real attempts at painting tiny details like this. A few months ago I revisited Kyra with the Bones sculpt, and even though I like Bones generally, I got a really bad casting. The fingers on her right hand were misaligned and had to be lopped off and resculpted, and she had a hole where her nose should be.

Sculpting and basing are completely separate art forms from the painting, to me. The idea of basing a miniature often seems like a chore, and for commission pieces I'll often go for resin Micro Art base rather than something I've sculpted myself. But I'm trying out different things, and avoiding the flocking/cork bases.

My most recent experiment in basing has been Zen Buddhist with water effects koi ponds, Vallejo sandy paste rock gardens, lilypads of plasticard hole punch leavings, plaster footbridges, and little accents from Wyrd Miniatures.

Online Lustful Bride

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1474 on: July 30, 2015, 09:26:26 AM »
Im rather shocked to admit this, but my father has become fascinated with 40K, though he admits that hes kind of confused by it al and wants to buy a book to read.

Can anyone tell me of any novels with the Imperium that would be a good way to start him off? (I say imperium because I don't want him getting sympathies for the unholy Xenos)