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The Elliquian Herald & Post
Issue 74 (Autumn) ~ August thru October 2017

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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 89409 times)

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Offline Oniya

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1400 on: June 29, 2015, 12:05:17 AM »
There are many worse and way dumber things to spend yoru money on. Tehre are people out there who spend most of their money on lottery tickets :P

Or drugs.  At least lottery tickets have a miniscule chance of paying you back.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1401 on: June 29, 2015, 05:18:36 PM »
Tell them that family is merely a social construct brought on by thousands of years of cultural norms and that they're stupid for keeping this slavish, blind devotion to an anachronistic concept that they hold an emotional, but not logical connection to. 40k minis, however, are a rational exchange of earned liquidity for long term entertainment; obtaining tangible goods that nudge you along the pursuit of happiness. Anything can be called idiotic if you don't understand the attraction.

Also that the God-Emperor/Chaos Gods* will smite them (*delete as appropriate)  ;D

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1402 on: June 29, 2015, 07:48:37 PM »
I know I shouldn't pay attention to this kind of talk... still, somehow, it is disheartening. It's weird to do something and know that your loved ones think it's stupid...

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1403 on: June 30, 2015, 07:31:51 PM »
Two things to consider .. I suspect that most wargamers older than their teens have heard some variation of that comment over the years.

Second, when you're having an arguement with someone, it's not really surprising if they say something with the intent of making you feel bad.

Some people may think it's a stupid hobby. They're entitled to their opinion. Doesn't mean those of us who enjoy it have to care what they think :)

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1404 on: June 30, 2015, 09:23:10 PM »
Hairy's completely correct.

War gamers. RPG gamers. Comic-book enthusiasts. Doll collectors. Car collectors. People who show dogs/horses/geese.
Really, anyone who collects things or has any kind of expensive hobby (or even a cheap hobby!) has probably heard that comment, or a variant on it at some point in their life and the right answer, if you don't just shrug and smile, is, 'It's my money. I happen to like *item*. 'Nuff said.'

I collect dragons (of all kinds; statues, plushies, beanies, kites), resin dolls and I have a plethora of other hobbies and interests. I don't have to justify /any/ of it to anybody.
Neither do you. It's your money and time. You spend it the way you want to.

Offline Oniya

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1405 on: June 30, 2015, 09:31:35 PM »
Hairy's completely correct.

War gamers. RPG gamers. Comic-book enthusiasts. Doll collectors. Car collectors. People who show dogs/horses/geese.
Really, anyone who collects things or has any kind of expensive hobby (or even a cheap hobby!) has probably heard that comment, or a variant on it at some point in their life and the right answer, if you don't just shrug and smile, is, 'It's my money. I happen to like *item*. 'Nuff said.'

'Don't you have yarn at home?'

'Not enough.'

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1406 on: July 01, 2015, 12:01:49 PM »
Ha! Thanks, guys :)

Okay, a question related to the setting: how do the Eldar communicate with humans? Is there such a thing like, say, "Eldar universal translator", or is the human-Eldar communication harder than that?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1407 on: July 01, 2015, 12:41:40 PM »
Typically they just demean themselves to speak Gothic.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1408 on: July 01, 2015, 12:54:28 PM »
Do they know it?

See, I *did* find a partner for that Wych x Inquisitor pairing and we're now working out how to make our characters able to communicate...

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1409 on: July 01, 2015, 02:28:45 PM »
A few humans are able to speak some form of the Eldar language, such as Ordo Xenos Inquisitors and Rogue Traders. I seem to recall there being mention of a trade dialect in one book.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1410 on: July 01, 2015, 02:37:08 PM »
Do they know it?

See, I *did* find a partner for that Wych x Inquisitor pairing and we're now working out how to make our characters able to communicate...

It's just another language. They can learn to speak it, though they obviously have an accent. And humans can learn to speak certain forms of Eldar, though it's apparently much more difficult than the other way round.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1411 on: July 01, 2015, 02:39:41 PM »
Thanks!

I think I'll go with my character simply having learned basic Gothic while being around the human slaves of the Wych Cult she belongs to. It should work for this particular story...

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1412 on: July 01, 2015, 02:55:46 PM »
It's a logical choice. You won't waste your precious time teaching short-lived human slaves proper Eldar. More efficient in the long run to sully your own tongue with Low Gothic.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1413 on: July 01, 2015, 03:06:45 PM »
Ah! See, I like that thinking :)

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1414 on: July 02, 2015, 06:23:31 AM »
It's also important to add when talking about the Eldar Language, that gestures and posture is just as important as the words themselves, as words in the Eldar language can literally have a thousand meanings, depending on how one moves or how one looks when saying the word, it's also why Eldar see Gothic and High Gothic as blunt and uncivilized. Two eldar could be standing by a bar, merely moving a bit or gesturing in the air to one another without a word escaping their lips, and they would both comprehend what the other was saying. I can't remember what book it is, but I seem to remember one describing an Eldar speaking Gothic at the speed the eldar speak the Eldar Lexicon as their language is called by the Imperium, and none of humans was able to comprehend what said eldar said as it was too fast and filled with metaphores (Eldars like obscure metaphores)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1415 on: July 02, 2015, 08:10:14 AM »
Interesting. I didn't know that... Thanks :)

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1416 on: July 02, 2015, 10:19:38 AM »
If you can get hold of them, read the trilogy of eldar novels, Path of the Warrior / Seer / Outcast. You'll get a good understanding of how nuanced Eldar communication is from those. There's also a trilogy of Dark Eldar novels which would give you a look at Dark Eldar society in general.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1417 on: July 02, 2015, 11:57:19 AM »
You refer to the Path of the Renegade / Succubus / Archon books by Andy Chambers, right? Are they good?

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1418 on: July 02, 2015, 03:19:55 PM »
Yeah, they're not bad.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1419 on: July 04, 2015, 12:16:19 PM »
I might look into them, then, when I have more money :)

Personal vent for today: aargh! I still can't find a good colour scheme for the Wyches. I came up with one, bought the paints, tried it out... it turned out it doesn't look so good. So, I came up with another idea, bought some more paints... today, I tried the new paints out and they don't look good, either. There's one more paint I could try buying, but it'd mean losing another few days and even more money... and I've already spent too much. Damn.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1420 on: July 04, 2015, 04:27:31 PM »
We've all been there :)

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1421 on: July 04, 2015, 06:13:10 PM »
Yes, we have.

And paints don't go bad overnight. You might not use them for this project, but they may come in useful for another project on down the line.
Nevermind the possibilities of mixing your own custom colours, for which you should /totally/ take notes and share. *sage nod*

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1422 on: July 05, 2015, 02:03:57 PM »
I know that the paints could turn out useful someday... Nevertheless, I just don't have that much money so that I would feel comfortable with such situation. Plus, I really would like to start painting that Wych sometime soon...

As for the custom colours, I'm trying that :) But I'm having trouble replicating the results of mixing. So, I don't want to base the main parts of the colour scheme on something so uncontrollable as mixing the paints.

Anyway! Anyone of you have any opinion on the new Fantasy Battle, AKA Age of Sigmar?

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1423 on: July 05, 2015, 04:23:45 PM »
From what I've heard, it's odd. Very, very odd. If I had to catagorise it, Warhammer Munchkin.

It sounds like it's playing at a smaller skirmish level, but there are quite literally insane special rules. For example

The gift of Tongues:
At the start of the combat phase, Wulfrik can issue an indelicate challenge in his foe’s tongue if there is an enemy Hero within 3".
Issue your opponent with a challenge of your own – you can be as mocking, rude or insulting as you dare; if your opponent rises to the bait and they change expression, even so much as crack a smile or a glimmer of shock, Wulfrik’s challenge is successful and you can re-roll failed hit rolls for any attacks he makes this phase against enemy Heroes

Supreme Vanity:
 Sigvald is narcissism personified, unable to go more than a few moments without seeking a mirrored surface. You can re-roll failed save rolls for Sigvald if you can see your reflection
or are holding a mirror when you roll the dice. However, if the result of any of these re-rolls is 1, Sigvald becomes entranced by his own perfection, and cannot pile in or make attacks for the rest of the phase.

Petrifying   gaze:
The magical gaze of a Cockatrice can transfix foes where they stand, turning them to stone. In your shooting phase, pick a visible unit within range, look your opponent in the eye and roll a dice. Add one to the roll if your opponent blinks first and subtract one from the roll if you do. If the result is 4 or more, the target unit is caught in the Cockatrice’s gaze and suffers D6 mortal wounds

and so on. There are similar things for all the different armies.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/age-of-sigmar-compendiums

GW appear to have put all the rules for AoS up for free to download on the website, and I'm told the core rules are only 4 pages. I haven't tried it yet, but I may give it a go to see how it plays.

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1424 on: July 05, 2015, 09:31:25 PM »
I had a quick glance over the rules and... eh, yeah.

First, as far as I can tell there's no points for units or limit on what you can pick; want an army consisting of seven versions of your most OP hero? Absolutely legitimate. Obviously you can house rule around this but still...

Secondly, there seems to be a distinct lack of interaction between your units and the enemy. Take combat (ranged and melee use the same rules). If my unit attacks then its hit chances are dependent entirely on the weapon I use; the opponents skill (unless represented by special abilities) doesn't matter. Likewise my chance to wound... again, unless represented by a special ability then a Skavenslave wounds both a Giant and a Goblin on a roll of 4+. The only hint of interactivity is in saving throws; the player of a wounder unit rolls against their save score (i.e on 4+ you need a roll a 4 or higher) and detracts the oppositions "rend score" from it.

Having not played I'm not sure if this is just theory craft but ranged seems overpowered at the moment. To take a simple example, Empire Archers hit on 4+ and wound on 4+. They also have a special ability where a unit of 30+ can reroll all missed hits (units of 10 or more can reroll a 1, 20 or more reroll a 2). Taking the none gamebreaking interpretation so you can only roll once, that means a unit of 40 would land 20 hits immediately and another 10 on the reroll for 30 hits and 15 wounds. Dwarf Ironbreakers... a unit you'd assume would be one of the most defensively solid in the game... only save on a 4+ to begin with (while they have an ability which helps them negate rend the archers don't have rend to begin with) and a single wound that's likely somewhere between seven and eight Ironbreakers dead in a single turn to one (admittedly fairly large) group of basic archers.

Put a seemingly more elite unit of archers, such as the Wood Elf's Waywatchers in there? 40 (one of whom makes two shots to begin with) of them using one of their special abilities so they make an additional shot and fire yet another if they roll a six to hit, hitting on 3+ and wounding on 4+. That's 81 shots to begin with + an additional 13 or so for rolling sixes for a combined 94 shots and around 62 hits, 32 wounds and 16 dead Ironbreakers. Now, Waywatchers are clearly meant to be good archers and 40 is a huge group of them (although remember, officially no point restrictions)... but that's still a large amount of casualties. In addition as far as I can see there's no rules either against or giving negative effects for firing into units engaged in combat as long as they can see an enemy unit... so if you put a meatshield in front of those Waywatchers then they'll likely get at least three turns firing at the Ironbreakers (two while they get into range to charge and one when they're stuck in combat with the meatshield). That's an average of what, 48 dead Ironbreakers? That seems massively excessive.

You want an even more dramatic example? Put those 40 Empire Archers against a single giant. That's 15 wounds and the Giant only saves on 5+... so 10 wounds inflicted and a virtually dead Giant (with a mere two wounds remaining) in one turn of shooting. Or go back to the Waywatchers. 25 of them using the previously mentioned special ability fire 51 shots which becomes around 60 with rerolling sixes. 60 shots hitting on 3+ gives 40 hits, 20 wounds and around 13 wounds... enough to kill a giant in a single turn.

Perhaps the biggest thing that leaps out about balance is this however; turns aren't set. Instead of working out who goes first at the start of the battle and keeping that order now you roll at the start of each turn; whoever rolls highest gets to go first. That means that a player who goes second one turn but goes first the next essentially gets to have two turns in a row; that strikes me as quite possibly being game breaking.

Overall, even if you get rid of the stupid "do something in real life and gain a bonus" special rules the entire thing seems cobbled together and somewhat of a beta test.