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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53035 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1300 on: May 30, 2015, 11:26:00 PM »
The Melnibonean culture is the pre-fall Eldar. It's sensation, depravity, and dark magic for entertainments sake including many elements that inspiree the Noise Marines. The original story for the Eldar was based off of the story of Melnibone.

>_>  I actually wasn't aware of that when I made the comparison.

But yes - the Melniboneans would do things like take slaves that had been surgically altered to only be able to produce a single note and whip them to produce musical compositions.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1301 on: May 31, 2015, 12:09:27 AM »
And Elric still holds to that culture?

Offline deadmanshand

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1302 on: May 31, 2015, 12:13:12 AM »
No. Not at all. There is a reason he is the Last Emperor of Melnibone. He personally leads the army that sacks the Dreaming Isle.

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1303 on: May 31, 2015, 12:14:23 AM »
Yyrkoon and Dr. Jest certainly did, though.  Elric - got caught up in a few things.  Killing Chaos gods and the like.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1304 on: May 31, 2015, 05:57:08 AM »
I definitely need to read some Moorcock...

A fun fact I read in the DE codex: these bastards are doomed, too :) See, somewhere below Comorragh there is Khaine's Gate: a sealed portal into the Warp...

... and in the 41st Millennium, cracks began to appear on the Gate...

The funniest thing? The DE ruler, Vect, and his main rival, Lady Malys, are currently fighting because of the Gate. Both of them want to keep the Gate shut... but, being DE, Lady Malys fears that Vect wants the opposite. So, their armies fight. To be able to do very the same thing...

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1305 on: May 31, 2015, 11:44:13 AM »
I definitely need to read some Moorcock...

'Elric of Melinibone' is widely regarded as a good 'gateway' into Moorcock's (rather large) corpus, and is what got me hooked on his writing.  Throw on the song 'Veteran of the Psychic Wars' by Blue Oyster Cult for a more immediate introduction to the Multiverse (Moorcock wrote the lyrics, and the song is a reference to his 'Eternal Champion', of which Elric is one incarnation.)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1306 on: May 31, 2015, 01:22:33 PM »
What else, aside from Elric, did Moorcock wrote? Also, how many Elric books / stories are there?

BTW. I... finished the penitent engine!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Alright, admittedly, I'm not sure how long it will stay in one piece. Some pieces of it were very hard to glue together... But, for the moment, it is ready. And it looks rather awesome, IMHO (as a model, that is - of course, my paint job is of not-too-great quality).

Photos coming up!

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1307 on: May 31, 2015, 03:51:27 PM »
Okay, here's the penitent engine (the Canoness included for scale)!





Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1308 on: May 31, 2015, 04:00:27 PM »
What else, aside from Elric, did Moorcock wrote? Also, how many Elric books / stories are there?

There are six core books to the Elric series, plus a couple that are out of sequence.  The critical ones (that you may also find in two omnibus editions) are:

 1   Elric of Melniboné
 2   The Sailor on the Seas of Fate
 3   The Weird of the White Wolf

 4   The Vanishing Tower
 5   The Bane of the Black Sword
 6   Stormbringer

And, before this goes completely OT (too late, I know), you can hit up Moorcock's own site http://www.multiverse.org/ and browse the wiki there for all sorts of info about his works.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1309 on: May 31, 2015, 06:31:52 PM »
Thank you! That was helpful :)

I've been meaning to check Moorcock out for some time... I hope to get to it one day.

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1310 on: May 31, 2015, 07:11:59 PM »
Okay, here's the penitent engine (the Canoness included for scale)!






It's great to see you back at painting =)

Offline Inkidu

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1311 on: May 31, 2015, 07:42:15 PM »
That's a really good paint job, Beoring. :)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1312 on: May 31, 2015, 08:22:33 PM »
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1313 on: May 31, 2015, 08:26:05 PM »
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?
Don't sell yourself short. I doubt you had an airbrush, and you should really see some of the stuff hanging around the various paint threads. XD

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1314 on: May 31, 2015, 08:39:56 PM »
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?

If I remember correctly, poison has nothing to do with AP, it affects wound rolls. Poisoned (2+) means it will wound any non-vehicle target on a 2+, then they roll Armor Save as normal for the weapon. Additionally, if it's a melee weapon and your Strength is higher than their Toughness, you re-roll failed wounds.

Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1315 on: May 31, 2015, 08:49:51 PM »
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?

1. IIRC Poison 2+ means that the weapon always wounds on a 2+ regardless of the str of the weapon and the toughness of your target. AP2 negates 2+ and above armour saves. Using a marine statline as an example (T4 3+ save), a str4 ap5 poison(2+) shuriken catapult will wound a marine as long as you roll a 2+, ignoring the need to roll against the T4 value but still allowing the marine to roll his 3+ armour save. In comparison, a hellshot lasgun (str3 ap3) will ignore the armour save of a marine, but you'll still need to roll a str 3 weapon against a T4 target, which is a 5+.

Additionally, in close combat, if the str of the character with the poisoned weapon is higher than the toughness of the person he's punching, he gets to reroll his 2+.

It's been a while since I've played but from what I remember that's how it works.

2. I don't think there's a difference. Maybe the newest edition has something about victory points and stuff, but afaik there isn't a difference. Perhaps for certain army-wide rules (like Ethereals, when they die, give an army wide boost), it's only restricted to the detachment, but I doubt it.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1316 on: June 01, 2015, 02:26:15 PM »
Okay, so in simple words, Poisoned is a trait that helps with wounding the opponent, right (assuming the hit passes the armour)? So, a weapon with Str 1 and Poisoned (2+) is actually stronger / more effective than its Str attribute would suggest? Am I getting it right?

Two more questions, if you don't mind:

1. Is there anything that happens to the army when its HQ model gets killed? In other words, is there any drawback the troops get when their main leader gets eliminated?

2. Something I'm wondering about the two-handed weapons: if a model uses a two-handed weapon, does it have to be *presented* as having the second hand free?

I have this question because of the DE's Succubus. Her default weapons are a pistol and a close combat weapon, but you can replace her CCW with a klaive, which can be used as two-handed melee weapon. But does it mean that I can't have use her pistol, too (because she doesn't have a free hand)? Or can she she use it when shooting - and the assumption is that in a melee fight she simply holsters it and fights with a klaive? If so, can I have her mini show her as carrying the pistol in one hand and the klaive in the other one?

Also: the klaive can be used both as a two-handed weapon and a one-handed weapon (it gets worse stats, then)? So, if she uses only one hand for the klaive, can she use her pistol as a CCW, then - and get two attacks in the same round?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1317 on: June 01, 2015, 02:38:18 PM »
Okay, so in simple words, Poisoned is a trait that helps with wounding the opponent, right (assuming the hit passes the armour)? So, a weapon with Str 1 and Poisoned (2+) is actually stronger / more effective than its Str attribute would suggest? Am I getting it right?

Yep.

Two more questions, if you don't mind:

1. Is there anything that happens to the army when its HQ model gets killed? In other words, is there any drawback the troops get when their main leader gets eliminated?

In general no, though there may be some army specific special rules.

2. Something I'm wondering about the two-handed weapons: if a model uses a two-handed weapon, does it have to be *presented* as having the second hand free?

I have this question because of the DE's Succubus. Her default weapons are a pistol and a close combat weapon, but you can replace her CCW with a klaive, which can be used as two-handed melee weapon. But does it mean that I can't have use her pistol, too (because she doesn't have a free hand)? Or can she she use it when shooting - and the assumption is that in a melee fight she simply holsters it and fights with a klaive? If so, can I have her mini show her as carrying the pistol in one hand and the klaive in the other one?

Also: the klaive can be used both as a two-handed weapon and a one-handed weapon (it gets worse stats, then)? So, if she uses only one hand for the klaive, can she use her pistol as a CCW, then - and get two attacks in the same round?

If it says only the CCW is replaced by a Klaive, then she still has the pistol.

Unless you're at a tournament where absolutely everything must be modelled, then you're probably fine just pointing out the model has a pistol if anyone asks. Most people tend to just be concerned about fancy wargear anyway.

Pistol + CCW generally gives +1A, though some special weapons differ from that rule.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1318 on: June 01, 2015, 02:59:13 PM »
Thanks for answers, Hairy!

Unless you're at a tournament where absolutely everything must be modelled, then you're probably fine just pointing out the model has a pistol if anyone asks.

I was actually concerned for something else: let's say I model her with a pistol and a klaive. Will it still be okay for her to use the klaive as a two-handed weapon in close combat? I mean, she *can* holster the pistol, after all?

BTW. I'll be making a Seraphim squad for my AS army and I want for one of the Seraphims to have two inferno pistols (it's allowed). But there's no model like that... What if I just take a Seraphim mini with two bolt pistols, sculpt them a little and say that they represent inferno pistols? Would that be okay with other players?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1319 on: June 01, 2015, 03:18:32 PM »
Thanks for answers, Hairy!

Anytime

I was actually concerned for something else: let's say I model her with a pistol and a klaive. Will it still be okay for her to use the klaive as a two-handed weapon in close combat? I mean, she *can* holster the pistol, after all?

Yep. That's the way most people would look at it.

BTW. I'll be making a Seraphim squad for my AS army and I want for one of the Seraphims to have two inferno pistols (it's allowed). But there's no model like that... What if I just take a Seraphim mini with two bolt pistols, sculpt them a little and say that they represent inferno pistols? Would that be okay with other players?

As long as they're visibily different from bolt pistols, it shouldn't be a problem.

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1320 on: June 02, 2015, 06:56:41 AM »
Thought Y'all might enjoy this:

They're so cute when they're young...


Offline CountessJess

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1321 on: June 02, 2015, 07:12:45 AM »
Thanks for answers, Hairy!

I was actually concerned for something else: let's say I model her with a pistol and a klaive. Will it still be okay for her to use the klaive as a two-handed weapon in close combat? I mean, she *can* holster the pistol, after all?

BTW. I'll be making a Seraphim squad for my AS army and I want for one of the Seraphims to have two inferno pistols (it's allowed). But there's no model like that... What if I just take a Seraphim mini with two bolt pistols, sculpt them a little and say that they represent inferno pistols? Would that be okay with other players?

If you're willing to look for them a bit, finding the inferno pistols from the blood angels sanguinary guard and attaching them to your sisters is a thing that you can do.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1322 on: June 02, 2015, 12:35:08 PM »
Yep. That's the way most people would look at it.

Ah! Good, then :)

Quote
As long as they're visibily different from bolt pistols, it shouldn't be a problem.

Great. I'll be trying my hand at greenstuff, then :)

If you're willing to look for them a bit, finding the inferno pistols from the blood angels sanguinary guard and attaching them to your sisters is a thing that you can do.

That's one alternative... although I admit that I probably won't have the patience for it. But thanks, I'll take a peek whether there's something available on eBay.

Thought Y'all might enjoy this:

They're so cute when they're young...


Heh  ;D Nice find. Reposted it in G&C, BTW.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1323 on: June 02, 2015, 03:43:37 PM »
Okay, here's a general question for those of you that collect / play WH40K...

What's your approach to building your army? Do you go through the codex and the pick up the units that might prove most useful? Or do you pick models that you find interesting or otherwise appealing? Do you come up with backstories for your armies and try to fit the army to such a backstory? Because I do that...

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1324 on: June 02, 2015, 04:34:10 PM »
Little from column A, little from column B.

Generally speaking, I'm much more story and background focused than picking the uber WAAC list of the day. I don't tend to include units that I don't think fit the theme of a given army.