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Author Topic: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check  (Read 4199 times)

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Offline RubySlippersTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #125 on: August 08, 2014, 12:45:47 PM »
My character, the younger sister, went to school in Waterdeep and converted to the faith of Waukeen devoting her time at studying business and magic an adventurer for a time and was with the Company of the Flaming Fist mercenaries for a time. Once able to she joined the Red Wizards largely "making it" in Thay and is settling into her profession whichever that is. She is largely apolitical favoring trade and making an income while promoting the faith of Waukeen in Thay.

If you like my idea above for her feat, she would oversee the family estate given to them making it as profitable as possible, if given a proper free hand, working hard at it. And using her foreign experience to full effect in dealing with adventurers and foreigners. To her the best way to make money is keep the monsters and humanoids in the mountains occupied with bands of adventurers and for support get a cut of the action.

If I recall Thayan businesses cannot charge Thayan rates but if say they have an Adventurer's Station and foreigners supply it the goods can be at costs lower say a version of an enclave, in reverse, with a fee to join say 10% of the treasures they recover or something it should get around that law if Thayan's don't do anything with it. I could ask the Church of Waukeen to set it up for a cut of the action as the taxes and local fees. She is LN she won't break the law but that should get around it. And a sharecropping system for the farmland and some land for a village we could do quite well to start.

Offline Snake

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #126 on: August 08, 2014, 12:52:25 PM »
Man it sucks when you wan to play but have no char concept for it.

What is already accepted here?

Offline RubySlippersTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #127 on: August 08, 2014, 01:00:00 PM »
Two Red Wizards one political serving Shar and one not but focusing on a way to make money which is being worked out worshipping Waukeen. I might shift to Master Craftsman and do something else though. I've decided to splash in some levels of Clerical replacing Paragon and will redo my skills though so will do that today.

One Halfling slave with a fighting beast she rides.

One cleric of Shar.


Offline Snake

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #128 on: August 08, 2014, 01:07:19 PM »
Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

Offline Re Z L

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #129 on: August 08, 2014, 01:15:50 PM »
Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

I was kind of toying around with an Assassin as well (how I'm going to go about it I'm not sure yet...) but the character was going to be running something of a hidden-in-plain-sight assassin's guild (through a brothel maybe).  We could work both characters together if you like.

Offline Warlock

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #130 on: August 08, 2014, 01:16:30 PM »
Man it sucks when you wan to play but have no char concept for it.

What is already accepted here?

Two Red Wizards, a halfing tiger rider and potentially an Illithid-like psion are the characters that have been presented.

My character, the younger sister, went to school in Waterdeep and converted to the faith of Waukeen devoting her time at studying business and magic an adventurer for a time and was with the Company of the Flaming Fist mercenaries for a time. Once able to she joined the Red Wizards largely "making it" in Thay and is settling into her profession whichever that is. She is largely apolitical favoring trade and making an income while promoting the faith of Waukeen in Thay.

If you like my idea above for her feat, she would oversee the family estate given to them making it as profitable as possible, if given a proper free hand, working hard at it. And using her foreign experience to full effect in dealing with adventurers and foreigners. To her the best way to make money is keep the monsters and humanoids in the mountains occupied with bands of adventurers and for support get a cut of the action.

If I recall Thayan businesses cannot charge Thayan rates but if say they have an Adventurer's Station and foreigners supply it the goods can be at costs lower say a version of an enclave, in reverse, with a fee to join say 10% of the treasures they recover or something it should get around that law if Thayan's don't do anything with it. I could ask the Church of Waukeen to set it up for a cut of the action as the taxes and local fees. She is LN she won't break the law but that should get around it. And a sharecropping system for the farmland and some land for a village we could do quite well to start.

''Within'' Waterdeep is a Thayan Enclave, your character might have some old ties to this organization such as a father or mother or an uncle and give her the blood-ties required to join the Red Wizards. As presented I like it. And as discussed earlier (I'll let the rest of you know more details soon) you'll start with a plot of farmland and a small mansion, so you'll have a place to start of your ventures.

Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

If it piques your interest, go ahead. 8th level, Pathfinder skill system, feats every odd-level.

Offline Snake

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #131 on: August 08, 2014, 01:21:16 PM »
Monk - Martial Artist Variant ;3 possibly with a multiclass into souknife-deadly fist for a pop of double unarmed damage :3

Uh btw: where the hell is the character generation specifics?

All I know is lvl 8 with pathfinder skill sets. Anything else?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 01:30:48 PM by Snake »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #132 on: August 08, 2014, 01:35:46 PM »
...Might I recommend Unarmed Swordsage in place of Monk? ^^; Monk is generally not considered one of the better-designed classes.

Offline RubySlippersTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #133 on: August 08, 2014, 01:39:18 PM »
It depends on what my character does and how much land we have a small area of farmland in THAY is likely big by say other nations standards.

If I choose a professional in some area of work, suited to her station, it will be different from say doing investing like I planned.

Offline Snake

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #134 on: August 08, 2014, 01:46:01 PM »
Hmm I'll look into it but the question stands unfortunately.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #135 on: August 08, 2014, 01:53:06 PM »
Well it's a D&D 3.5 game, but one using Pathfinder's skill consolidations and feat progression (meaning one feat every odd level), and you can make use of Pathfinder feats if there are any you want to use.

Dragon Magazine content is also allowed, provided it doesn't break the game.

Offline Snake

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #136 on: August 08, 2014, 01:54:32 PM »
Ah ok so it's a mix of 3.5 and pathfinder!

That works better then Could we use a pathfinder class though? *as some are better organized than 3.5e, like soul knife for example^*

Offline Warlock

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #137 on: August 08, 2014, 02:17:09 PM »
Ah ok so it's a mix of 3.5 and pathfinder!

That works better then Could we use a pathfinder class though? *as some are better organized than 3.5e, like soul knife for example^*

Honestly, I'd rather not, there's enough bloat already before me having to keep track of both 3.5 and Pathfinder classes. Try to keep yourself to skills, traits and backward compatible feats in Pathfinder. There's always arcane gish classes and builds available or the Psychic Warriors as a form of substitute.

Offline Snake

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #138 on: August 08, 2014, 02:19:58 PM »
Alrighty ;3 Ill stick with that.

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #139 on: August 08, 2014, 02:21:18 PM »
So... you're taking Mentor now and Leadership later (because you don't get the bonuses for being a mentor without spending a feat on them) even though the GM has said that you can get the mentor bonuses by just taking the Leadership feat?

I guess you must really need that 7th-level feat slot for something else. ^^;

 :o

So, I can take apprentice in first level (and get UMD as class skill and get freebie copying of my spells), then it evolves to mentor (I get Shar priestess as apprentice), then as my apprentice graduates I take leadership feat, get apprentice as cohort, get followers and I keep my mentor perks so long I spend 8 hours a day teaching/studying? Is that correct?

Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

Thought about going for Cloaked Dancer? Well, monk or soulknife would definitely able to be effective in said PrC (or even dip level as assassin as PrC progresses arcane spellcasting some reason). Or a bard who is able hide his weapons or conjure one on fly (assassin class gives spells to hide weapons and bard has one 2th level spell able conjure light weapon as swift action).

Plus pretty pics;

http://www.dandwiki.com/w/images/thumb/6/68/Dancer_FFT_for_DanD.jpg/180px-Dancer_FFT_for_DanD.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HXo8q8ICeRw/T1PFwHkSnZI/AAAAAAAAA18/EJ8dW5PuwFs/s1600/ivanja.jpg

Or you could be something truly exotic; drow bard (drow bards get ACF where they replace bardic knowlegde for poison use, but then again drows of the underdark got 'master of poisons' feat which allows use poisons safely and apply them as swift action on your weapon. Very handy for non-PrC assassin).

RubySlippers: Yeah, math can hurt your head. So that's why I suggested either I or GM could work the numbers for you and just tell where invest skill points and give feat recommendation for running business in Thay :P. It's just that your feat is....too easy for GM's liking. When speaking of doing profit other ways than just looting dungeons it needs be bit trickier but not tricky as doing dungeon exploring.

Although politics in Thay makes it tricky. But the feat gives no window nor any flaw what fellow thayan can exploit besides blowing up the entire market/city where you had invested money (we got damn rivals!).

Anyways if you studied in Waterdeep and revere Waukeen (note; thayans are universally not that religious lot), then Rhaza considers his sister as 'odd duck' compared to other thayans with lack of ambition and focusing on running smooth trading....with no ulterior motives whatsoever. But he would let her run the mansion what party got and also farmlands as she got more 'business' mind set and skills for it than him (he is scribe professionally speaking and quite damn fine one too; he could forge Szas Taim's signature if he would just get sample of it or write thesis in netherese language about finer points of arcane).

Also I am curious where exactly our mansion and farmlands (which we are landowners of) are located? Nearest big town/city? Or is it near to metropolis even so it could be valid for my sister invest on metropolis market and go once every month collect money from there from invested businesses?

Honestly, I'd rather not, there's enough bloat already before me having to keep track of both 3.5 and Pathfinder classes. Try to keep yourself to skills, traits and backward compatible feats in Pathfinder. There's always arcane gish classes and builds available or the Psychic Warriors as a form of substitute.

Ok, for Snake there is psychic warrior variant which works like soulknife; in first level you need to pick call weapon power and 2th level you sacrifice a bonus feat to conjure your 'psychic weapon' which upgrades over your levels like soulknife weapon does. It's far superior compared to soulknife alone but you loose in stealth skills and skill points (but those can be dealt with just picking cosmopolitant to get stealth as class skill or take human paragon level and then take disguise ranks and enter assassin, take psychic one and then enter cloaked dancer).

Or play bard as I suggested as bard makes fine cloaked dancer also as they can conjure with one spell a magical rapier as swift action. Or able hide/disguise light weapons on their outfits or inside hair :P.

Offline Warlock

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #140 on: August 08, 2014, 02:34:02 PM »
I'll take most of what I sent to RubySlippers earlier, I wanted to check with her first since it's her initial idea.

Quote from: Warlock
I've looked at some different things:
  • Since there's been some discussion and general agreement on wanting a political element, the place we're using to kick-off the campaign should be able project some sort of power and having the players either in the position to use it, or being able to take it.
  • The projected power should have the possibility to be both enhanced or expanded.
  • It needs to offer the possibility and closeness of different types of encounters and environs.
  • It should also include either hidden or unpredictable elements.

Northern Pyrador felt to fit these criteria, offering a mix for the possibility to play both the political game between and inside thearchs and nation against nation (in the form of the conflict between Gauros and Rashemen) and giving opportunity for dungeon-delving. The situation within Pyrador is unique within Thay since it actually allows and encourages foreign adventurers, I could easily imagine them being used as plausible deniability in political plots. Looking at the Tharchion of Pyrador, Nymia, she've made herself a fortune manipulating trade and it doesn't seem to be reflected within Pyrador as a whole, a possible point of contention and conflict. Having the players being close to Gauros could draw the attention of its warmongering leaders, offering gifts and favors in return for military or magical might against Rashemen or daggers and poison should they be denied. Being close to the Tyrtauros city of Surag also pulls the character's loyalties, the tharch being a trading hub of Thay. To the south lies Mulhorand, who have Thayan slaves (called Tethans) and one could imagine that raids are conducted on both sides similar to the Garuos-Rashemen situation. In the east lies Sunrise Mountains, filled with previously mentioned adventurers and unexplored ancient ruins, still hiding their secrets. The Golden Way also draws attention, laying beyond the mountains and if a pathway could be found it would bring immense power and wealth. In the Underdark lies the Duergar city of Fraaszummdin and parts of Undrek'Thoz a confederation of Drow cities.

I've considered having you start with rulership over a smallish piece of average farmland, with a larger structure as a primary base of operation, then giving you free reigns to expand or as the campaign continues, with me throwing plot hooks at you (hopefully managing to tie them together into something larger) and trying to indulge in the groups plans of world-domination.

At best I've really scratched the surface at what is possible, but I hope that it gives a general idea of the forces that acts within Thay (I've most likely forgotten many and haven't touched too much on all the internal politics).

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #141 on: August 08, 2014, 02:40:01 PM »
That looks very promising Warlock, very well thought :=)

So we got farmland and by sister's insistence we use free thayans instead slaves (groan about expense doing so) while my char deals with the politics and dealings with local figure heads so they do not end up knife in their guts or so.

Now Warlock, can you confirm what I asked above from Kunoichi? So does my feat taken in 1st level evolve this; Apprentice > Mentor > Leadership? Keep skill bonus benefits of the mentor feat so long I keep teaching someone or do daily 8 hour study in library (our main building must have a library).

Offline Kunoichi

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #142 on: August 08, 2014, 02:47:19 PM »
Now Warlock, can you confirm what I asked above from Kunoichi? So does my feat taken in 1st level evolve this; Apprentice > Mentor > Leadership? Keep skill bonus benefits of the mentor feat so long I keep teaching someone or do daily 8 hour study in library (our main building must have a library).

I wasn't saying that the Mentor feat evolves into Leadership, merely that you can use it to still gain the Mentor bonuses from your cohort. ^^; I was also recommending that you take it for your 7th-level feat slot, because starting play with a fully-fledged cohort is going to be much more useful than starting play with some un-graduated apprentice.


Ah, and Snake, this page has the Psychic Warrior ACF that Zaer was talking about.  It's the one called 'Soulbound Weapon'.  I'd still go for the Unarmed Swordsage if it were me, but it certainly makes for a better Soulknife than the actual D&D 3.5 Soulknife.

Edit: Although, if you'd like to combine unarmed combat with psychic powers, there are some interesting options there.  Be a Psychic Warrior, take one level of Monk at third and select Monastic Training as your bonus feat, then take Tashalatora for your 3rd level feat and continue on with Psychic Warrior.  It's a very solid build with some nice flavor to it.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 02:57:29 PM by Kunoichi »

Offline Warlock

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #143 on: August 08, 2014, 02:50:22 PM »
That looks very promising Warlock, very well thought :=)

So we got farmland and by sister's insistence we use free thayans instead slaves (groan about expense doing so) while my char deals with the politics and dealings with local figure heads so they do not end up knife in their guts or so.

Now Warlock, can you confirm what I asked above from Kunoichi? So does my feat taken in 1st level evolve this; Apprentice > Mentor > Leadership? Keep skill bonus benefits of the mentor feat so long I keep teaching someone or do daily 8 hour study in library (our main building must have a library).

Yes. There's still the time costs involved in needing to study/teach that is a fair trade for the benefits it proveds and I'd say that it's an optional use of Leadership for anyone else that also liked to go that route.

Edit:
I wasn't saying that the Mentor feat evolves into Leadership, merely that you can use it to still gain the Mentor bonuses from your cohort. ^^; I was also recommending that you take it for your 7th-level feat slot, because starting play with a fully-fledged cohort is going to be much more useful than starting play with some un-graduated apprentice.


Ah, and Snake, this page has the Psychic Warrior ACF that Zaer was talking about.  It's the one called 'Soulbound Weapon'.  I'd still go for the Unarmed Swordsage if it were me, but it certainly makes for a better Soulknife than the actual D&D 3.5 Soulknife.

Thank you for finding it, I tried to look for it but I just couldn't find it. *Bows deeply*
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 02:58:23 PM by Warlock »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #144 on: August 08, 2014, 03:02:41 PM »
Edit:
Thank you for finding it, I tried to look for it but I just couldn't find it. *Bows deeply*

No problem. ^^ I've actually bookmarked this page, simply because it's got a useful index to all of the D&D 3.5 web content that Wizards of the Coast put out.

Edit: By the way, would purchasing a single +1 Eager Warning Shuriken be a bit too cheesy for this game, or should we expect to see Shuriken with useful enchantments placed upon them as popular fashion accessories among the more canny members of Thayan nobility? :P
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 03:21:29 PM by Kunoichi »

Offline RubySlippersTopic starter

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #145 on: August 08, 2014, 03:23:24 PM »
Okay I got it I need to make her a proper professional, political and something that could work anywhere the Zulkiers aka the Government would find work for her. I decided to be - drumroll please -

An Advocate of Law attached with Favored of the Guild in Thayan Government.

In simple terms she works for the government as a largely honest and likely by the books official but that means if parties in power need a legal way to do something she can find a way, if she is appointed to judge a case she will be honest and just in her ruling even if that means being rather mean but common Thayan or Zulkier she will not judge unjustly (but odds are the laws favor the latter) and she can be counted on to put the government first.

Her brothers plans being quite normal is not on her radar.

Her income will be a professional government salary and special fees for her work (mostly shared with the government). She won't take bribes by the way she is LN but if the commoner cannot afford her doing additional legal research and the Red Wizard can the laws will likely favor the one who pays for the time to find loopholes, precedents and such. Those are not bribes those are added fees.  >:)

Sound good?

Oh some tasks she will also do is contracts, government cases of all kinds and making sure new regulations and laws favor the government then Thay in general. I expect her to be busy.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #146 on: August 08, 2014, 03:34:24 PM »
Ah, so she'd be the Red Wizard equivalent of a lawyer/judge/jury?  Given the oddities in the governmental systems of Thay, I could see them using one individual to handle all three roles in their legal cases...

Offline Warlock

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #147 on: August 08, 2014, 03:50:36 PM »
No problem. ^^ I've actually bookmarked this page, simply because it's got a useful index to all of the D&D 3.5 web content that Wizards of the Coast put out.

Edit: By the way, would purchasing a single +1 Eager Warning Shuriken be a bit too cheesy for this game, or should we expect to see Shuriken with useful enchantments placed upon them as popular fashion accessories among the more canny members of Thayan nobility? :P

That is new to me.....Abuse at your own risk. It's uncanny dodge and an initiative bouns for the price of a single +3 Arrow. I won't stop you using it, still I urge you to reconsider that course of action.
------------------------
Okay I got it I need to make her a proper professional, political and something that could work anywhere the Zulkiers aka the Government would find work for her. I decided to be - drumroll please -

An Advocate of Law attached with Favored of the Guild in Thayan Government.

In simple terms she works for the government as a largely honest and likely by the books official but that means if parties in power need a legal way to do something she can find a way, if she is appointed to judge a case she will be honest and just in her ruling even if that means being rather mean but common Thayan or Zulkier she will not judge unjustly (but odds are the laws favor the latter) and she can be counted on to put the government first.

Me like. :)

Her brothers plans being quite normal is not on her radar.

Ahhh, sibling love.

Her income will be a professional government salary and special fees for her work (mostly shared with the government). She won't take bribes by the way she is LN but if the commoner cannot afford her doing additional legal research and the Red Wizard can the laws will likely favor the one who pays for the time to find loopholes, precedents and such. Those are not bribes those are added fees.  >:) 

A rose by any other name. An impressive work around and staying on the theme of Lawful Neutral but not-quite-almost flirting Evil.
Sound good?
 

Very much so.

Oh some tasks she will also do is contracts, government cases of all kinds and making sure new regulations and laws favor the government then Thay in general. I expect her to be busy.

I'll try to do some digging in Thay law and see what more I can find on their government structure (There's a nice section in Lords of Darkness that I've just skimmed that contained some interesting parts). I'll do my best to keep you occupied.

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #148 on: August 08, 2014, 03:57:32 PM »
Kunoichi: Well, indeed there are perks in proper cohort (and followers). I would assume we get leadership bonus if we recruit thayan followers while being red wizard?

However....the shadow weave is also delicious as it gives freebie skill focus on enchantment, necromancy and illusion which stacks with spell focus and also tattoo focus. Plus +1 CL for those schools as well and my spells overall are bit harder to read/dispel by weave users.

I could take shadow weave later on, but the big point is that if I use Simalcrum with myself (example in 14th level), the 7th bonus feat is useless for the clone as I doubt GM lets it fly I get 'additional' cohorts and followers by creating magical clones of myself (clones which are absolutely loyal to me). Also to let clone participate in circle magic they likely must need able use shadow weave than normal weave if I am shadow weave user. So I do need have shadow weave in 7th level slot one way or another.

Not to mention 9th level I would like save for Arcane Manipulation so I can make 10th level clones which are able convert higher level spell slots for several smaller ones (to do some high level cheating with ritual magic, like have clones which are able cast several 9th level spells on my command).

Offline Kunoichi

Re: DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check
« Reply #149 on: August 08, 2014, 04:06:07 PM »
That is new to me.....Abuse at your own risk. It's uncanny dodge and an initiative bonus for the price of a single +3 Arrow. I won't stop you using it, still I urge you to reconsider that course of action.

It's a highly abusable trick, so if you're urging me to reconsider, then I think I'll just not buy one. ^^;

And with that, my character sheet for Rima is complete.

Kunoichi: Well, indeed there are perks in proper cohort (and followers). I would assume we get leadership bonus if we recruit thayan followers while being red wizard?

However....the shadow weave is also delicious as it gives freebie skill focus on enchantment, necromancy and illusion which stacks with spell focus and also tattoo focus. Plus +1 CL for those schools as well and my spells overall are bit harder to read/dispel by weave users.

I could take shadow weave later on, but the big point is that if I use Simalcrum with myself (example in 14th level), the 7th bonus feat is useless for the clone as I doubt GM lets it fly I get 'additional' cohorts and followers by creating magical clones of myself (clones which are absolutely loyal to me). Also to let clone participate in circle magic they likely must need able use shadow weave than normal weave if I am shadow weave user. So I do need have shadow weave in 7th level slot one way or another.

Not to mention 9th level I would like save for Arcane Manipulation so I can make 10th level clones which are able convert higher level spell slots for several smaller ones (to do some high level cheating with ritual magic, like have clones which are able cast several 9th level spells on my command).

Hmm.  The feat retraining rules in the PHB II might be of some help here.  Essentially, you start play with Leadership in your 7th level slot.  Then, when you hit level 9, you retrain it out for Shadow Weave Magic and bump Leadership up to 9th, and you swap Leadership out again for Arcane Manipulation when you hit 11, taking Leadership as your 11th level feat.

From a flavor perspective, I think it's an approach would fit quite well for a character who's in constant training to better himself and always on the lookout for more personal power. ^^
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 04:10:59 PM by Kunoichi »