What Are Your Impressions of Atheism

[BeeJay]

And I have respect for believers, I just think that they need to get right with reality. Nothing I said was insulting until my response post. Of course, that is only offensive because the imagery that is invoked is unpleasant. The acts are the real insult.

[Oniya]

Nothing is different, except that I have reality on my side.

And I have respect for believers, I just think that they need to get right with reality.

And this is supposed to give me a favorable impression of atheism?

[Iniquitous]

And again. You insult believers. Ever think that attitude is why you get no respect? It certainly is the reason I have lost respect for you.

[Yukina]

I will be stepping out of this conversation for now. I don't feel like stressing myself out arguing with one that hypocritically bashes and generalizes a group of people in the manner of the fundamentalists he so dislikes.

[BeeJay]

Sorry for the emotional response. I'm just frustrated at the double standard in discussions like this. The religious are made to seem so reasonable because the nasty atheists want to challenge their beliefs. My rant was a bit of lashing out, but nothing I said is wrong. I didn't generalize at all. I gave examples of things that religion has done. Every religious person isn't directly responsible for those abominations, but they provide perfect cover for those that are. Why don't more religious people call out the Catholic Church for the criminal organization it is? Why do some religious voting blocks almost unilaterally support the banning of stem cell research? These are the points I tried to make. I admit I got a little emotional, but my points stand. Claiming that my statements are rude is petty in comparison to the things my statement stand against. That's the meat of my defense of the bolded statement.

And I would like to clarify that I didn't insult anyone. I simply stated that the beliefs of the religious are out of sync with reality. Whether my statement is true or not, this isn't an insult at all, but an argument. And this is the place for argument.

[Iniquitous]

I'll address this one thing first. You do not get to tell me whether I can feel insulted by your "emotional lashing out" or not. I take offense at your claim that I, because I have a belief system, do not reside in reality. YOU made the statement, I am allowed to have my emotional reaction to it.

Second, yes. A lot of harm has been done in the name of religion. But guess what. So has a hell of a lot of good. Universities, charities, homeless shelters, hospitals, free clinics, food banks. In your overwhelming hatred of religion you choose to ignore the good that comes from religion - and that makes you look ignorant.

Third - what the hell do you care what anyone else believes? Why does it matter to you that someone else holds a religious belief? The fact that you think you are superior and smarter because you have decided that there is nothing out there? The fact that they do not share your belief? What is the thorn in your side about others having their own brain to make their own choice? It's called free will - we all choose what works best for us. You do not get to tell every single person on this planet what to believe. No one does. To each his or her own. It's that damn simple.

[BeeJay]

I'll address this one thing first. You do not get to tell me whether I can feel insulted by your "emotional lashing out" or not. I take offense at your claim that I, because I have a belief system, do not reside in reality. YOU made the statement, I am allowed to have my emotional reaction to it.

Second, yes. A lot of harm has been done in the name of religion. But guess what. So has a hell of a lot of good. Universities, charities, homeless shelters, hospitals, free clinics, food banks. In your overwhelming hatred of religion you choose to ignore the good that comes from religion - and that makes you look ignorant.

Third - what the hell do you care what anyone else believes? Why does it matter to you that someone else holds a religious belief? The fact that you think you are superior and smarter because you have decided that there is nothing out there? The fact that they do not share your belief? What is the thorn in your side about others having their own brain to make their own choice? It's called free will - we all choose what works best for us. You do not get to tell every single person on this planet what to believe. No one does. To each his or her own. It's that damn simple.

You're allowed to be offended by me saying anything. You're allowed to be offended by being called and upstanding citizen, for all I care. What you're not allowed to do is use you offense as an argument. Just getting that out of the way, because it makes this entire portion of the discussion moot. I'll address your points anyway.

I haven't ignored the people that have done good, and the religion that influenced them to do so. Not mentioning something isn't ruling it out. The difference is that people are capable of the same charity without believing in harmful dogma that is the single cause of the AIDS pandemic in sub-Saharan Africa. Making assumptions about my character and calling me ignorant is a bit brash, don't you think?

I'd like to ask you not to put words in my mouth, please. I never said anyone was stupider than me for believing differently. Intelligent people are allowed to come to the wrong conclusion. Intelligent people can be indoctrinated into not seeking answers. My statement that you are so adamantly peeved at made no attempt to stifle anyone's free will. That claim is just fatuous. You are trying to shame me out of trying to convince believers not to believe and imposing your will of 'live and let live' on me. Instead of living and letting live, I'd rather make something of human society. The status quo is rarely a healthy place to be for long. Progress of humanity is important to me. Sorry if that offends you, truly I am, but I'm not going to pipe down when I think I can do good for humanity.

[Iniquitous]

You're allowed to be offended by me saying anything. You're allowed to be offended by being called and upstanding citizen, for all I care. What you're not allowed to do is use you offense as an argument. Just getting that out of the way, because it makes this entire portion of the discussion moot. I'll address your points anyway.

I haven't ignored the people that have done good, and the religion that influenced them to do so. Not mentioning something isn't ruling it out. The difference is that people are capable of the same charity without believing in harmful dogma that is the single cause of the AIDS pandemic in sub-Saharan Africa. Making assumptions about my character and calling me ignorant is a bit brash, don't you think?

I'd like to ask you not to put words in my mouth, please. I never said anyone was stupider than me for believing differently. Intelligent people are allowed to come to the wrong conclusion. Intelligent people can be indoctrinated into not seeking answers. My statement that you are so adamantly peeved at made no attempt to stifle anyone's free will. That claim is just fatuous. You are trying to shame me out of trying to convince believers not to believe and imposing your will of 'live and let live' on me. Instead of living and letting live, I'd rather make something of human society. The status quo is rarely a healthy place to be for long. Progress of humanity is important to me. Sorry if that offends you, truly I am, but I'm not going to pipe down when I think I can do good for humanity.

Let me call a liar a liar here. You do not believe in live and let live simply because you want to change those around you. THAT is not live and let live. Let me define what it means to live and let live for you since you obviously have it confused. It means you don't give a shit what anyone else believes or does. You don't give a shit how they live their lives because, and I will say this again, it is none of your damn business what they do, what they believe, how they do things, why they do things, who they do things with. The moment you stop trying to force your belief on everyone around you then you can claim you live and let live.

Just because you believe you are right does not MAKE you right. You'll never convince me you are right. Matter of fact, at this point and time, I'd be more likely to laugh in your face, call you an ignorant idiot and ridicule you simply because you are a blatant hypocrite and I have absolutely no respect or like for you. You are rude, you lie and you try to cover your lies with your bullshit instead of stepping back and looking at your own words. Maybe when you grow up and actually learn what it means to truly respect the beliefs of others I'll decide you are worth my time.

Till then, I'll put you in the same box I put the frothing at the mouth Christians. The one labeled "Hypocrite".

[HairyHeretic]

Things are getting a tad heated in here. What say we all step away from the keyboard for a little while before posting anything else, hmm?

[BeeJay]

I never said I ascribe to live and let live. I said the opposite in fact. I do want to change the world, because I care about it. You don't get to decide what is my business. We're done here. I don't want this thread to close. Feel free to respond, but I won't be reading it.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Any of us who care about the world want to change it but those of us who also care about the people in the world know that we need to allow them the freedom to be themselves.  Believe or not.  The choice is yours.  Yet, no matter what we choose none of us has the right to force anything on another.  Live your life the best you can and leave everyone else alone.  Don't presume you have the right or status to judge others.  Also, remember that before you can attempt to fix the world you need to fix yourself.  For those of us who are less than perfect, and I have yet to meet a perfect person, that is a life-long process that should keep us busy until the end of our days.

[Blythe]

Rule #2 on Elliquiy is "be polite, be civil, and be respectful."

This thread was locked once previously. It is now being locked again. It will not be re-opened.