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Author Topic: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?  (Read 941 times)

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Offline SilkNSatanTopic starter

Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« on: June 26, 2014, 02:54:51 PM »
So far my top Marvel cartoons are

1) X-men the animated series in the 90s. (The only good one from that area of Marvel Animation)
2) Spectacular Spider-Man
3) Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes
4) X-men Evolution
5) Fantastic Four Worlds Greatest Heroes

My problem with marvel even as a kid in the 90s with the exception of X-men was the shows were dumbed down and given at the time (I was 8) I was watching Star Trek the Next Generation and Deep Space Nine I wanted mature storytelling. Which DC gave in spades with Batman and Superman the animated shows.

The clusterfuck we have now is insulting to the fans, the characters and Marvel itself. I don't know if its the sword of Disney that is calling the shots wanting to sell toys over producing decent toons but weve got a serious problem here mr Queseda and mr Lobe.

1) Ultimate Spider-Man the cut away breaking the fourth wall idea dosent work. Really dosent work and as for Spider-man Agent of SHEILD is just tacky. Peter would never have signed up for that in his early days. Classic characters like Mary Jane, Harry, Aunt May and JJ are just so underdeveloped its not even funny. And as for his Spider-Team....yes....I get it....they want to speak to kids of all different ethnicity's by brining in characters like Luke Cage and White Tiger but at least make them interesting...Personally I would have much rather have had a series based off the Ultimate comics written by Bendis, thats what we all THOUGHT we were getting when they pitched this idea.
The fact they did the body switch with Wolverine which is universally considered the worst Ultimate Spider-Man comic storyline shows that is show really dosnet have a fucking clue. I miss Spectacular SOOOO much.

2) Avengers Assemble. Such a fucking turd. It keeps capitalizing on the movie and refusing to break away other then making Falcon a member. TO me hes under developed and a token African American character like Widow is the token woman.  The only episode I liked was "Planet Doom" because im a fan of alternate reality's. But its just so dumb sometimes....its best of a bad bunch but by far is no EMH which was everything a Avengers cartoon should be. Im so gutted they cancelled it as they were building towards the Civil War arc...ARGHHHH.
And what about supporting characters like Pepper Potts? Jane Foaster? Maria Hill? Rhodey? its very much a toon for boy's which excludes any female viewer. Yet look at shows like DC `s teen titans go, girls love superheroes too.

3) Hulk and the Agents of Smash. Any toon which has Red Hulk as a *friend* of Green Hulk is so far off the mark its not even funny.
I find it ironic Seth Green who bashes Ben Affleck as Batman (a fellow comic book fan) for playing Batman could happily lend his vocal's to such a turd as Agents of Smash. Rick Jones could have been a interesting character (hel the 90s hulk cartoon did a better job developing him).
And making She Hulk a stunt woman instead of a lawyer just shows how little female characters are regarded in this "Verse". Heavens forefend She Hulk might have more brains then all the men combined in Hulk form. And Skarr has been ruined as well...

I guess Gordian's of the Galaxy will be just as bad, focusing too much on Rockett and Star Lord. While Drax and Gamora been reduced to plae versions of their comic book selves.

Even Marvels MOVIES such as Ultimate Avengers (which wasn't perfect by far) was better then these turds.
and I loved Hulk vs...Nolan North as Deadpool....classic.

Maybe if we were getting the occasional animated movie once or twice a year for older fans id be less bothered.

Oh and I have hopes for a decent X-men cartoon less like Wolverine and the X-men.

Thoughts? x     

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 04:33:35 PM »
It's simple.  They don't have a dedicated team for the animation side.  They farm it out and sometimes they're not to people who know comics or the stories all that well.

DC on the other hand, has a dedicated team of former comic writers who work with their animation side.  And more importantly, Warner Brothers doesn't mess with that formula.

Offline Beorning

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 04:49:26 PM »
Personally, I find it interesting: Marvel makes good movies (especially now), but their cartoons aren't very good. Meanwhile, DC has awesome cartoons, but their movies suck...

Okay, the first two of Nolan movies were good, but the third one? Awful.

Offline SilkNSatanTopic starter

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 07:02:28 PM »
Marvels animated movies were of a standard the strongest too been Hulk Centric.
"Hulk Vs Thor and Wolverine" by far is the best in terms of animation, voice-casting and story-telling. The guy who voiced Thor in that sounded great and Although I liked the actor that proceeded him on Earths Mightest Heroes he wasn't as good.

The other been World War Hulk, which to be honest could have had its own spin off TV series. I would much rather that then Agents of Shite.
In those Cartoons Hulk was actually a credible threat and they didn't skimp on it.

The Avengers one was ok...a off shoot the Ultimate's Verse.
And the other been a Iron Man origin movie and a Doctor Strange animation.

The fact is they WERE pleasing fans with Spectacular Spider-Man AND Earths Mightiest Heroes. But my feeling is the big wigs over at Marvel wanted creative control (and the money basically) and snatched their toys back after lending them to others. Its just a pity they have completely embarrassed themselves to the point of looseing a big part of their fandom.

Maybe this is the price for Disney's money? We get amazing marvel live action films, solid tv shows like Agents of Shield but the cartoons are utter turds. Jeph Lobe isn't a consistent writer, his best work been more with DC then Marvel and Joe Quesdea is so so these days.
Brain Micheal Benids is where its at and I hope he still puts out quality for time to come.

Persoanlly if we get a Xmen cartoon in the next few years id like to see some X-men we haven't seen yet in the roaster.
Colossus (hes only ever been a guest character in each series) Pyslocke (instead of Jean Grey YET AGAIN or Emma), Dazzler, Longshot, Havok, Polaris and Bishop (yup as a series regular)

Keep Wolvie, Storm, Rogue and Beast on the roaster as they are fan faves....but lets see some OTHER X-men as regular's.

Offline Ebb

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 07:48:29 PM »
For what it is, I found The Super Hero Squad Show very well done. A lot of clever self-aware writing.



Offline Mathim

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2014, 04:17:05 PM »
So far my top Marvel cartoons are

1) X-men the animated series in the 90s. (The only good one from that area of Marvel Animation)
2) Spectacular Spider-Man
3) Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes
4) X-men Evolution
5) Fantastic Four Worlds Greatest Heroes

My problem with marvel even as a kid in the 90s with the exception of X-men was the shows were dumbed down and given at the time (I was 8) I was watching Star Trek the Next Generation and Deep Space Nine I wanted mature storytelling. Which DC gave in spades with Batman and Superman the animated shows.

The clusterfuck we have now is insulting to the fans, the characters and Marvel itself. I don't know if its the sword of Disney that is calling the shots wanting to sell toys over producing decent toons but weve got a serious problem here mr Queseda and mr Lobe.

1) Ultimate Spider-Man the cut away breaking the fourth wall idea dosent work. Really dosent work and as for Spider-man Agent of SHEILD is just tacky. Peter would never have signed up for that in his early days. Classic characters like Mary Jane, Harry, Aunt May and JJ are just so underdeveloped its not even funny. And as for his Spider-Team....yes....I get it....they want to speak to kids of all different ethnicity's by brining in characters like Luke Cage and White Tiger but at least make them interesting...Personally I would have much rather have had a series based off the Ultimate comics written by Bendis, thats what we all THOUGHT we were getting when they pitched this idea.
The fact they did the body switch with Wolverine which is universally considered the worst Ultimate Spider-Man comic storyline shows that is show really dosnet have a fucking clue. I miss Spectacular SOOOO much.

2) Avengers Assemble. Such a fucking turd. It keeps capitalizing on the movie and refusing to break away other then making Falcon a member. TO me hes under developed and a token African American character like Widow is the token woman.  The only episode I liked was "Planet Doom" because im a fan of alternate reality's. But its just so dumb sometimes....its best of a bad bunch but by far is no EMH which was everything a Avengers cartoon should be. Im so gutted they cancelled it as they were building towards the Civil War arc...ARGHHHH.
And what about supporting characters like Pepper Potts? Jane Foaster? Maria Hill? Rhodey? its very much a toon for boy's which excludes any female viewer. Yet look at shows like DC `s teen titans go, girls love superheroes too.

3) Hulk and the Agents of Smash. Any toon which has Red Hulk as a *friend* of Green Hulk is so far off the mark its not even funny.
I find it ironic Seth Green who bashes Ben Affleck as Batman (a fellow comic book fan) for playing Batman could happily lend his vocal's to such a turd as Agents of Smash. Rick Jones could have been a interesting character (hel the 90s hulk cartoon did a better job developing him).
And making She Hulk a stunt woman instead of a lawyer just shows how little female characters are regarded in this "Verse". Heavens forefend She Hulk might have more brains then all the men combined in Hulk form. And Skarr has been ruined as well...

I guess Gordian's of the Galaxy will be just as bad, focusing too much on Rockett and Star Lord. While Drax and Gamora been reduced to plae versions of their comic book selves.

Even Marvels MOVIES such as Ultimate Avengers (which wasn't perfect by far) was better then these turds.
and I loved Hulk vs...Nolan North as Deadpool....classic.

Maybe if we were getting the occasional animated movie once or twice a year for older fans id be less bothered.

Oh and I have hopes for a decent X-men cartoon less like Wolverine and the X-men.

Thoughts? x   

I actually liked the 1994 Spiderman cartoon which was in a shared universe with the X-Men cartoon of that same generation. Better than Spectacular Spiderman, anyway (which I still liked, just not as much). Lately the Ultimate Spiderman toon is a guilty pleasure but I still enjoy it.

The DC Animated Universe (Batman TAS, Superman TAS, Batman Beyond, Static Shock, and Justice League/Unlimited) however is my absolute fave superhero cartoon block. In that regard, yeah, Marvel just can't compete, back then or now.

Good writing is essential and they often just don't have it. It's obviously gotten worse lately but the '90's was when they were at their prime. Cartoons were practically allowed to cuss, they could bleed, directly punch people in the face without cut-editing or any of that crap. Nowadays they're so neutered it's a challenge to make it worthwhile.

Offline Beorning

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2014, 07:31:42 PM »
Good writing is essential and they often just don't have it. It's obviously gotten worse lately but the '90's was when they were at their prime. Cartoons were practically allowed to cuss, they could bleed, directly punch people in the face without cut-editing or any of that crap. Nowadays they're so neutered it's a challenge to make it worthwhile.

Wait wait wait. Let's not forget that it wasn't that pretty with all '90s cartoons. The '90s Spider-Man cartoon? Spidey wasn't allowed to actually punch anyone there - that's why he kept executing all those swing-and-kick maneuvers. And both that cartoon and the '90s X-Men cartoon suffered from the total ban on realistic firearms - that's why we got weird stuff there like ordinary policemen armed with energy pistols...

Offline SilkNSatanTopic starter

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2014, 07:29:30 AM »
Good writing is the key and I agree that DC have always come out top. You can watch old episodes of Batman the Animated series and see they stand the test of time, in animation, voice acting (which is iconic ie Kevin Conroy) and story telling. They introduced Harley Quinn for gods sake and gave Mr Freeze his origin story that people love.

DCs other shows haven't measured up in my mind, but lets look at the success rate, for the most part the "lessor" DC shows still trump marvels good ones.

Teen Titan's, a cult success, aimed for kids mostly but still had drama and pathos. Slade/Deathstroke was a credible villain. It didn't just attempt at being a Justice League light show. It was its own animal and was so popular they brought it back!

The Batman. Ok im going to say it, I LIKED this show. It took bold new choices and established itself outside the DC canon. The creators knew how beloved the BTAS was and didn't try to copy it. So they shook it up, we got a new Clayface, new origin for Poison Ivy, Riddler, Harley Quinn and Mr Freeze. We got a Batgirl before a Robin (because at the time he was still caught up with Teen Titans) and a Wayne Manner in the heart of Gotham instead of been on the city outskirts. I know some fans don't like this more *urban* version of the character but it won Emmy awards and lasted five seasons (so they must have done something wright).

Batman the Brave and the Bold. Another reimagining of the character more Adam West Style. But weaker I thought then "The Batman".
But some fans loved its take on the Justice league Europe and such. Again, it is still a better cartoon then the 3 turds Marvel has out now.

Superboy and the Legion. I could see where they were coming from. Hopeing for a Teen Titan style hit. But it just didn't work. It was a solid effort but I don't think the characters are as engaging as the Titans. Pulled after 2 short seasons.

Green Lantern and Beware the Batman. Not seen a single episode of each, but I don't like the CGI animation style so il pass. But again I applaud Beware the Batman's producer's for YET AGAIN trying new stuff such as having Katanna as his sidekick and having a different selection of villain's instead of rehashing the Joker, Catwoman, Bane etc again and again.

Young Justice, I LOVED. So classy, the animation and the writing. I was hoping this was the new DC animated universe. I loved the character development and the new character desings. Its a shame we never got the last three seasons they had palnned. Could have been epic.

So what next for DC? Other then Teen Titans go (which honestly is a pale version of the original) DC are rather quiet.
I really think they should go back to basics and return to the DC ANIMATED UNIVERSE, give Bruce Timm his job back!

But my fear is...what could they do next? Maybe Timms team feel burnt out?

we had Four seasons of Batman
Three of Superman
Three of Batman Beyond
Four of the Justice League
Several movies. 

Where could they go next with that universe?     

Offline consortium11

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 06:47:32 AM »
Honestly, I think this is a bit unfair on Marvel.

(Just to add a bit of context, I'm pretty out of the loop when it comes to the more modern cartoons; anything past the mid-2000's Teen Titans series is virtually unknown to me so it may be that things have changed radically since).

I don't think it's disputable that DC has the better animated universe; Batman TAS (both the series and the various movies) are basically a classic in Western Animation, Superman TAS, Justice League and JLU aren't far behind and while they were somewhat hit and miss for me both Batman Beyond and Teen Titans had some really good moments.

But that's down to the strength of the DC universe, not down to a particular weakness at Marvel.

The 90's X-Men series may not have been quite as strong as Batman TAS but it was an excellent show in it's own right (up until the final season where the production changed) which did a great job of transcribing comic storylines onto the small screen. The Spiderman show of the same era wasn't quite as good and suffered from its own issues (Spiderman not being allowed to punch people for one and the refusal to talk about blood leading to Morbius having to scream "plasma" and not bite people) but was generally a good series that covered much of the best work of the comics well. Iron Man an Fantastic Four may not have been as good but they again had moments and while the second season of the Incredible Hulk was a disaster, the first was brilliant (and was a large part of why the second was so bad; Fox considered the first season too dark and thus enforced a "lighter" second season). X-Men: Evolution may not have lived up to the 90's season but it was an interesting take with several of its own well-written and powerful arcs.

Both universes have had their fair share of misses (the less said about Spider-Man Unlimited the better), but I think the Marvel Animated Universe holds up well... it's just that the DC one is even better.

Offline SilkNSatanTopic starter

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 07:45:57 AM »
In my personal opion the decision to axe both Spectacular Spider-man and Earths Mightiest Heroes was a huge mistake. Given the majority of fans loved those shows so much. And as a female viewer I feel very alienated from the new shared Marvel/Disney universe.
A lot of my problem is its very much a boys club in all 3 shows and that to me is a huge step backwards. Also the story telling is very much dumbed down in compassion to what weve had before.

X-men Evolution was a kids show, but it was produced by the WB (same folks as Spectacular) and it was great! But I do get the impression the boys at marvel do get a little jealous when another creative team starts to have success with THEIR characters. I also know decision's are made on ratings and such. The biggest disappointment for me is when a network decides to take into account how many TOYS are sold from any given cartoon. That was apparently a factor in the cancelation of Young Justice, and it just breaks my heart.

I mean the producers of YJ really attempted to expand the universe outside the show, a video game, a comic series and toys. Yet really it was the hard core fans who were thankful for a decent successor to Justice League Unlimited. Don't get me wrong, YJ wasn't perfect. The 1st season was by far stronger then the second. The criticism I had was TOO many characters. By the time season one ended the audience really cared about Superboy, Miss Martain, Aquaboy, Kid Flash and Artemis (hell just look at all the cosplay of them at conventions)
Brining Zatanna in was a stroke of genius (shes a beloved DC girl anyway and this time we got to see her as a teenager who had the hots for Robin) fandom had a orgasm over her. As well as brining in a character that hasn't been developed since the 90s (Rocket).

Both these girls should have been explored more instead of brining in say Bumbelbee and Batgirl.

If I had been in charge of season 2 I would have kept Zee and Rocket on the team. Still had Blue Beetle, Wonder Girl, Tim Drake and Impulse show up but that's it. No Lagoon Boy, No Mal Ducan no Beast Boy and no Bumbelbee.  Because they weren't frankly developed enough and hence had no real reason for been there.

That's just my personal preference.

As for Marvel I think I have been fair to them, like I said X-men the animated series, X-men Evolution, Avengers EMH, Spectacular Spider-Man  Fantastic Four WGH and Silver Surfer are all strong character driven cartoons with great animation and story telling.

Wolverine and the X-men was ok, but weaker then the previous two incarnations. Its defiantly watchable and the guy who voices Logan is the best they have had, hands down! It just didn't click for some reason, but the animation was good and the voice casting spot on.

But everything else (I think) is painting by numbers story-telling with animation that hasn't aged well. Weak voice casting choices, poor direction and poor production. So Il happily pass on both 90s Spider-Man toons, Marvel Action Hour, Hulk and Avengers UTS.
And I refuse to watch a single episode of SuperHero Squad and any of the current cartoons which only have the animation going for it!

I often wonder what if "Pryde Of the X-men" had been and into a tv series? Some of the voice casting there was TERRIBLE.
Magentos voice grated like a heavy piece of machinery, Emma Frost sounded like a drag queen and Wolverine was Australian! WTF?

All we do know is that Kitty Pryde was going to be the audience's eyes (much how Jubilee was in the following series) and she was going to "Tough up" as the series went on. Which was good, because she came off kinda pathetic in the pilot.
And I hope to Christ she would have gotten a costume, because that outfit she was wearing was  horrific (even for the late 1980s).
She had soaks over sandals people....never a good look....EVER.

But I liked the line up Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrlawer, Colossus, Dazzler and Kitty. A good combo of powers and personalities'.
Would it have followed the canon more? Would we have heard about a dead Jean Grey? Beast? Iceman and Angel? how much creative imput would say Stan Lee and Chris Claremount have had in it? The animation itself is very good and stands up to modern day so its a shame we never got say 13 episode's even.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 07:59:51 AM by loislanekent »

Offline Craz

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 02:56:43 AM »
The cancellation of EMH was part of a desire to consolidate everything into Disney, and they wanted to re-target and bring things in line with the movies.

Marvel's had some definite hits in animation in the past, especially with the X-Men. EMH was great and it's not like they've had failures of their animated features, though their anime-esque films didn't sit well with me.

Both companies right now have a hit live-action show as well. Arrow had a great second season, and while Agents of SHIELD had a slow start, it's actually picked up into a really good show that actually reminds me a lot of Stargate and Star Trek in how it runs the show. Both have things going for them, and I honestly hope both do more. I'm honestly not too excited about either's animation departments right now, but that's just me.

Offline Sabre

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2014, 06:39:08 AM »
I'll leave this here, thinking it may be somewhat relevant on the subject of animation and the comics industry.
http://giancarlovolpe.tumblr.com/post/82641459722/a-little-behind-the-scenes-look-of-the-early

I have noticed a gap in quality between DC and Marvel TV shows, not just with the cartoons but also with the live-action TV shows. I found Agents of SHIELD to be not as entertaining as Arrow, for instance.

Offline Vorian

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2014, 09:59:18 AM »
I'll leave this here, thinking it may be somewhat relevant on the subject of animation and the comics industry.
http://giancarlovolpe.tumblr.com/post/82641459722/a-little-behind-the-scenes-look-of-the-early

I have noticed a gap in quality between DC and Marvel TV shows, not just with the cartoons but also with the live-action TV shows. I found Agents of SHIELD to be not as entertaining as Arrow, for instance.

Personally, at least for my tastes, I felt it was the other way around - or at least SHIELD came together faster than Arrow did. Late season 1 for SHIELD compared to mid season 2 for Arrow. Admittedly though that's more a dislike for the approach Arrow had taken to a superhero series up until that point than a comment on quality.

Offline Sabre

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2014, 12:23:17 PM »
Yeah, the beginning of Arrow was pretty weak since it was still in that 'we're totally not a comic book tv show look how clever we are' phase. And also Huntress. But once the show got the ratings it needed to really cut loose and clearly have fun running around with a 'look at how comic book we are!' sign on its back, it really picked up.

Maybe that's part of DC's secret when it comes to their other shows? See, I never was a comic book kid growing up. My only exposure came from shows like 90's X-Men, Spiderman, and Batman, and while the former two were just weird eye candy for my kid brain Batman TAS was a bit different in the way I got invested in its universe. A lot of Marvel shows then and now feel - I don't know - toyetic? Like it's a really long commercial for other Marvel things like action figures or recently their movies. I specifically recall always wanting wanting a Wolverine figure to play with, but I'd always want to talk about Batman, and not just silly things like how radical some fight was but just asking why someone did what or how.

Offline Sasquatch421

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2014, 07:12:45 PM »
*shrugs* Everyone has their moments.... I grew up watching Super Friends, Spider-man and his Amazing Friends, Wild C.A.T.S and more so I've seen things change. I enjoyed the 90's X-Men and DC's one though I'm not a fan of them after they ruined the Wildstorm Universe.... Batman TAS was all about Harley for me... I also love Wolverine and the X-Men and was disappointed when there was no second season.

Offline Mathim

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2014, 01:16:37 PM »
I didn't feel that the older Spiderman cartoon was diminished at all by the lack of ability to fight in the traditional sense nor by avoiding mention of certain things like blood or death (both of which were broken on occasion). I still got a kick (literally) out of Spidey kicking, whether a strong two-foot shot at the Lizard or just using his foot to knock a gun out of someone's hand or kick down a door (how he occasionally did this with his palms out flat, I'll never know) and the writing and banter was brilliant. I will never forget Tombstone's immortal line that still cracks me up: "I'm gonna make you a coffin...a real FLAT one!" Those rarely occur in any DC show I've seen, where it didn't rely on being a reference to someone or something else within that universe.

It felt much less like each episode was a one-shot (not just due to the number of cliffhanger-ish episodes, either) because it all hung together so well with its continuity, and kept building a larger story rather than something like Batman which, while it lasted a long time, just sort of kept chugging out one-shots that it made no difference in what order they were viewed. Stuff like that was uber-important in a lot of the 90's Marvel properties. This isn't to diminish DC or anything, it's just that it's a bit rash to praise them so highly and not give Marvel their proper due.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2014, 12:31:51 AM »
So I just watched the Son of Batman animated flick about...  5 minutes ago, and I have to say...  DC dropped the ball on this one.  Between the odd script and odder voice acting, it felt stilted and truncated, like they tried to shove the entire comic arc, word for word into an hour fourteen.  It's not bad, it's watchable, but it's definitely nowhere near the tour de force The Red Hood was.

6.2  Watchable, the action is excellent, but the script and phoned in voice acting could kill it for people.

Offline SilkNSatanTopic starter

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2014, 07:35:55 AM »
Good to know, Il download it instead of buying it.

I was dissapionted with the voice actin with Justice League War.
Like I said I was so impressed with Young Justice and I really wanted THAT to be the new animated universe.
Sadly...DC is going in another direction.

I am excited for this.


Offline VonDoom

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2014, 02:26:39 PM »
This looks very nice. They're even using the proper Amanda, not the new 52 doll version! I do wish Deadshot's and Harley's design were closer to their classic originals, but it's supposed to be the game-universe, so I guess it's inevitable.

Offline Matttheman89

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2014, 12:15:11 PM »
Good to know, Il download it instead of buying it.

I was dissapionted with the voice actin with Justice League War.
Like I said I was so impressed with Young Justice and I really wanted THAT to be the new animated universe.
Sadly...DC is going in another direction.

I am excited for this.



As far as Young Justice goes, I wouldn't blame DC for that one. That was all Cartoon Network. They thought they couldn't sell enough toys for it to be 'profitable', and they didn't like that it was appealing to demographics outside of their stupidly shortsighted target audience. It's the same reason the Green Lantern Animated Series got cancelled too.

Say what you will about Disney, but at least they don't purposefully sabotage their programs, even if their programs are sub-par.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2014, 02:48:13 PM »
Say what you will about Disney, but at least they don't purposefully sabotage their programs, even if their programs are sub-par.
Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes would say otherwise there.

Offline Matttheman89

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2014, 05:44:45 PM »
EMH wasn't necessarily shut down because of Disney buying Marvel. EMH, like Spectacular Spider-Man, wasn't actually made by Marvel in-house. Marvel wanted to change that, and so they shut down EMH so they could make their own cartoon themselves. I'm not saying Assemble is anywhere near as good as EMH because it isn't by any stretch of the imagination, but putting that all on Disney isn't completely accurate. Granted, I'd say the more simplistic, dumbed down versions of the characters may have something to do with them.

To be honest, even if EMH had continued, I feel like it could have started going downhill anyway. If you'll notice, the 2nd half of season 2 of EMH has a similar storytelling set-up as Avengers Assemble, with a bunch of one-offs that feel like they're mostly self-contained compared to the longer form of story telling that EMH had been using at that point. It led to a lot of rushed stories that felt sort of half baked in my opinion. Like the New Avengers episode. I like that episode, but it feels really choppy in execution.

Offline Neysha

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2014, 11:40:54 AM »
Wait wait wait. Let's not forget that it wasn't that pretty with all '90s cartoons. The '90s Spider-Man cartoon? Spidey wasn't allowed to actually punch anyone there - that's why he kept executing all those swing-and-kick maneuvers. And both that cartoon and the '90s X-Men cartoon suffered from the total ban on realistic firearms - that's why we got weird stuff there like ordinary policemen armed with energy pistols...

I have to agree.

90's Spiderman was fine when I was a child and didn't notice such things.

But I've had a far more full appreciation of Batman: The Animated Series both as a kid and now. While Spider-man somewhere benefited from story arcs, it wasn't something that really compelled me when I was a kid and the action and storytelling and even the animation just wasn't quite as striking or compelling to me. It provided story arcs and continuity, but all of the mechanisms of storytelling were inferior in comparison to B:TAS. I feel Batman had done a superior job with sharper animation, tighter plots even if they were standalone, more effective and chilling villains, better action and pacing and drama and character. To be honest, unless I was a kid, I'm in agreement with you and find B:TAS to be far superior to the Fox Spider-man cartoons back then. I feel the same way about the Superman Cartoon series that took place back then as well.

I did enjoy the 90's Fox X-Men cartoon as well though, it suffered from similar problems like the Spider-man one, but the stories, perhaps as a result of the different source material, seemed to be a lot more intense and interesting and diverse and compelling. Just a better epic storytelling all around because it seemed to deal with bigger issues and wasn't as hackneyed as Spiderman was.

Offline SilkNSatanTopic starter

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2014, 12:28:52 PM »
Frank Miller himself describes it best. "The comic book houses are looking for kids who arn`t there anymore. The industry has changed and people are a hell of a lot older who are the die hard fans." The same can be said for the animated crowd.

DC have always been heads and shoulders above marvel in terms of animation, voice casting and scripts.

What I was pleased to see was with EHM that marvel was finally catching up and now it feels like a backwards step.

The tone of the new 3 shows is for children with attention problems, its too quick, to loud, too silly and no heart.

Also, as a girl I feel the female characters are so poorly treated.

White Tiger is the only one who seems to have been given much thought, but at times shes *token girl* In ultimate Spiderman.
Black Widow is hardly ever  in Avengers Assemble, its a mighty sausage fest.
She Hulk, no where near as interesting and fleshed out as her comic counter part, and Eliza Dushku is worth a dam sight more.

I am so sorry Adiren Pasdar is apart of it as Tony Stark/Iron Man, he is a GREAT actor who brings so much of himself to the role.
I always thought when he was on Heroes what a perfect Tony he would be.   

Offline Mathim

Re: Why Carnt Marvel animation get it together?
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2014, 04:21:52 PM »
I just rented and watched the final season of Teen Titans, man, what a stinker. Total letdown compared to how good the other four seasons were. But now it's time to see Teen Titans Go!

Has Marvel done any live-action stuff prior to Agents of SHIELD that are just for TV? DC has(d) Birds of Prey, Smallville, Arrow, The Flash, Gotham, and even the older versions of some of their heroes on TV. Not all of them are great (or in some cases, even 'good') but if Marvel doesn't start competing better soon they may have dominated the big screen but the small screen will still belong to DC and that's where they'll continue to pump their funding into to try and drown out Marvel on TV. With any luck, that Daredevil show will be anything other than a colossally bad idea.