You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 11, 2016, 04:01:40 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?  (Read 2678 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« on: June 26, 2014, 01:16:30 PM »
I happened to recall this case yesterday:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker

I actually remember that her pending execution in 1998 was in the news even back here. I was a Christian at that time and I remember praying for her at the hour she was being given the injection...

Do you remember that case? Do you think that she should or shouldn't have been executed? What's your opinion on death penalty in general?

BTW. I also recall from the news that the were pickets outside the prison at the time of her execution. While anti-death penalty pickets are nothing wrong, I can't help wondering about the people who were waving the "Let the B***h die" plackards. Is it a humane thing to do..?

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 02:06:30 PM »
Yes, I recall her, and yes she should have died just like she did. I know her home life was hard but that is not an excuse for murdering others in a cold and callus way. Her life was one big crime spree and she did not have a change of heart about it until after she was caught.  I do not care about the excuses they are irrelevant and I am not inclined to give everyone a free pass who plays the sympathy card.

There is a logical way to avoid getting executed and that is to not murder anyone. And one should also avoid putting themselves into that sort of position in the first place. I am so very tired of how our society has an excuse for everything and everyone and no one takes responsibility for their own actions.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 02:22:41 PM »
Well, let me raise some counter-points:

1. Personally, I do believe that her home life could have been an excuse... or, at least, an explanation. To a big extent, we *are* shaped by our childhood experiences - experiences we have no control over.

2. I don't know if she could be described as having killed in "cold blood". From what I've read, she was stoned out of her head when she committed those murders. Many addicts do commit deeds they later genuinely regret.

3. Regardless of whenever it happened, she did have a change of heart. Isn't it cruel to hold a woman in prison for 14 years, let her reform... and then, execute her anyway? She was a different person than when she commited those murders.

4. It's not like people wanted for her go to free - there was only talk of changing her sentence to lifetime in prison. So, it's not like people wanted her not to be responsible for what she did...

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 02:36:27 PM »
We simply are not going to agree on this. And yes, she should not have been in prison 14 years she should have been put to death long before that.

Offline Aiden

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 05:25:25 PM »
I support the death penalty, as bad as this sounds I think more people should be executed. Rapists, Child Rapists, Gang Members. All those "Lifers" I think we should be rid of them.

(I'm also not looking to get into a debate, this is how I feel. My friend has TRIED to reason with me, it just doesn't work with me)

Offline Tairis

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 09:02:31 PM »
So because she had a religious conversion and she was a woman, somehow she should have been spared? She murdered a man because he was making an unpleasant noise after he was beaten with a hammer. All to steal that man's things to pay for drugs because she was an addict.

She should have been shot once the guilty verdict was passed, saved the state thousands, and saved everyone from years of BS. It's easy to be repentant when you have nothing to lose in a place where you'll never have to actually do anything to repair the damage you've caused.

Offline DemonessOfDeathValley

  • For those who are gone.....but never forgotten....
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: Somewhere between sleep and awake
  • Gender: Female
  • I remember......
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2014, 09:32:20 PM »
I don't believe in the death penalty. In my opinion killing is killing, whether it's a person committing a crime or the criminal being executed.

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2014, 09:35:41 PM »
Personally, I think life in prison without parole (like solitary confinement) is a bigger punishment than getting the death penalty.  But then again, the death penalty is more cost effective as tax payers, so it is a difficult issue.

Offline meikle

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 09:40:57 PM »
Death sentence is never anything than more than vengeance.  Blood for blood is a barbaric, outdated practice that serves no functional purpose but is actively detrimental to our society -- the appeals process in death sentences are (necessarily) long, drawn-out, and expensive compared to, for example, life without parole.  Recent studies suggest that as many as 4% of prisoners who find themselves facing the death penalty are innocent

Beyond that, the institution of the death penalty functions as a perverse incentive: a person who will expect to be killed for their crimes is motivated by the legal system to remain at large, and has no further incentive to stop committing crimes.  If the role of the criminal justice system is to protect the people of the nation, then the death penalty is actively contrary to that goal.

Quote
(like solitary confinement) ... But then again, the death penalty is more cost effective as tax payers, so it is a difficult issue.
The death penalty is significantly more expensive to tax payers than life in prison; an inmate on death row costs $90,000 a year more than an inmate in a maximum security prison serving a life sentence.

Solitary confinement is an incredibly cruel act of psychological torture when enacted for more than a few weeks at a time.  The goal of the justice system is to protect the innocent, not to torture the guilty.   ... "The court found that 'Texas's administrative segregation units are virtual incubators of psychoses — seeding illness in otherwise healthy inmates and exacerbating illness in those already suffering from mental infirmities.'" http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/exhibits/ww_justice/documents_3/Ruiz_opinion_5_2001.pdf

Quote
She should have been shot once the guilty verdict was passed ... It's easy to be repentant when you have nothing to lose in a place where you'll never have to actually do anything to repair the damage you've caused.
This entire post comes across as incredibly deranged, but certainly backs up my prior point that death penalty supporters are usually sadists out for blood.  You know what would allow her to do something to repair the damage she caused?  Not killing her.  Rehabilitation allows criminals to repay their debt to society.  Execution only serves to get people like you off.

If we executed death penalty convicts immediately upon verdict, we would kill significantly more innocent people than any of these criminals do themselves.  Here's a list of innocent people you're in favor of murdering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:19:45 PM by meikle »

Online Qt

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 10:01:44 PM »
Well, let me raise some counter-points:

1. Personally, I do believe that her home life could have been an excuse... or, at least, an explanation. To a big extent, we *are* shaped by our childhood experiences - experiences we have no control over.

2. I don't know if she could be described as having killed in "cold blood". From what I've read, she was stoned out of her head when she committed those murders. Many addicts do commit deeds they later genuinely regret.

3. Regardless of whenever it happened, she did have a change of heart. Isn't it cruel to hold a woman in prison for 14 years, let her reform... and then, execute her anyway? She was a different person than when she commited those murders.

4. It's not like people wanted for her go to free - there was only talk of changing her sentence to lifetime in prison. So, it's not like people wanted her not to be responsible for what she did...

Your post is a bit confusing, are you against the death penalty as a whole? Or are you simply arguing that she shouldn't have been executed because she was female.

Would you have made the same arguments if the person's gender is male instead of female?

Offline meikle

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 10:07:04 PM »
Your post is a bit confusing, are you against the death penalty as a whole? Or are you simply arguing that she shouldn't have been executed because she was female.

Would you have made the same arguments if the person's gender is male instead of female?
Are you really confused?  Nothing in that post suggests that her gender has anything to do with it.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2014, 05:01:51 AM »
So because she had a religious conversion and she was a woman, somehow she should have been spared?

Well, her religious conversion meant that she reformed. And she remained reformed for the next 14 years. What was the point of killing her, then?

Quote
She murdered a man because he was making an unpleasant noise after he was beaten with a hammer. All to steal that man's things to pay for drugs because she was an addict.

Isn't her being an addict an exonerating circumstance, actually? It's a well-known problem of addicts that they have trouble controlling their actions when pressed by their addiction...

Your post is a bit confusing, are you against the death penalty as a whole? Or are you simply arguing that she shouldn't have been executed because she was female.

Would you have made the same arguments if the person's gender is male instead of female?

I won't deny that I tend to be a bit more empathizing with women than men... But I think I'd make the same arguments if Tucker was a male, yes.

And yes, I am against death penalty.

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2014, 05:46:19 AM »
Every time I see a debate like this I wonder where all the love and concern for the victims is because it seems to be all reserved for the criminals.

Offline Formless

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2014, 07:37:10 AM »
Every time I see a debate like this I wonder where all the love and concern for the victims is because it seems to be all reserved for the criminals.

Indeed.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 08:44:16 AM »
Every time I see a debate like this I wonder where all the love and concern for the victims is because it seems to be all reserved for the criminals.

Come on, this is just unfair. I don't agree with the fundamental concept of murdering people for their crimes (and yes, I agree that these are serious crimes), so I don't have any sympathy for the victims? Can't you see that this is completely black-and-white approach?

What you're saying is that because criminals hurt somebody, they have no human rights whatsoever... If so, then maybe you'd propose that we come back to some true-and-tried methods of punishment, like impalement or skinning?

BTW. Have you considered that, one day, you might be one of those people who ended up sentenced for some crime? Wouldn't you want to be shown a basic degree of mercy in such a situation?

BTW 2. If I remember correctly, a brother of one of Tucker's victims was against her execution, too. So, he has no sympathy for his murdered sister, either?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 08:48:52 AM by Beorning »

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2014, 09:47:37 AM »
It is a very black and white issue in my view. I am sorry that offends you. As for the argument that execution is just vengance? Okay I am perfectly fine with vegance in cases like this. There are no gray areas as far as I am concerned. You have the right to believe as you do and so do I.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2014, 11:56:18 AM »
While the Innocence Project has exonerated many people on death row, those have been situations where DNA evidence has proven conclusively that the person convicted did not do what they were convicted of doing.  This is why I don't get bent out of shape with regards to appeals and delays.  If Ms. Tucker had shown anywhere close to the remorse that she showed post-sentencing during her trial, or even seemed remotely appalled when talking to her friends afterwards (instead of bragging that she had multiple orgasms during the murders), she might have gotten that life sentence.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2014, 12:17:57 PM »
Come on, this is just unfair. I don't agree with the fundamental concept of murdering people for their crimes (and yes, I agree that these are serious crimes), so I don't have any sympathy for the victims? Can't you see that this is completely black-and-white approach?

What you're saying is that because criminals hurt somebody, they have no human rights whatsoever... If so, then maybe you'd propose that we come back to some true-and-tried methods of punishment, like impalement or skinning?

BTW. Have you considered that, one day, you might be one of those people who ended up sentenced for some crime? Wouldn't you want to be shown a basic degree of mercy in such a situation?

BTW 2. If I remember correctly, a brother of one of Tucker's victims was against her execution, too. So, he has no sympathy for his murdered sister, either?

Personally? Bring back the more extreme punishments for crime. As for criminals having human rights? Some of them do not deserve them. They certainly did not respect their victims' human rights so why should they be accorded them?

I don't care if a death row inmate 'finds God' and 'repents'. There are consequences for every action. Not too mention I am not entirely convinced at these 'conversions' and 'repentance' claims. 1. Oh shit, I've been caught - claim I've found God now and might get off light! 2. You're in prison - aint that hard to live a 'virtuous' life when your ass is guarded 24/7 to make sure you don't do the shit you did before.

Found God? Good for you, now go meet your maker.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2014, 01:04:51 PM »
If Ms. Tucker had shown anywhere close to the remorse that she showed post-sentencing during her trial, or even seemed remotely appalled when talking to her friends afterwards (instead of bragging that she had multiple orgasms during the murders), she might have gotten that life sentence.

Hm. Still, she did show remorse after the sentence. And did so for many years. So, maybe she did earn the re-sentencing?

Personally? Bring back the more extreme punishments for crime.

Which ones, specifically? Whipping? Hand-cutting? Impalement? Skinning? Burning at the stake? How about the breaking wheel? Or crucifixion?

How far would you be willing to go?

Quote
As for criminals having human rights? Some of them do not deserve them. They certainly did not respect their victims' human rights so why should they be accorded them?

Because we would be hypocrites, otherwise? How can the state punish people for killing someone, if it conducts killings, too?

I find the States' adherence to death penalty surprising especially in the light that it is, in many respects, a very Christian nation. Meanwhile, death penalty is utterly anti-Christian...

Quote
I don't care if a death row inmate 'finds God' and 'repents'. There are consequences for every action.

But must the consequences be so severe?

Remember that, one day, you might end up in prison, too!

Quote
Not too mention I am not entirely convinced at these 'conversions' and 'repentance' claims. 1. Oh shit, I've been caught - claim I've found God now and might get off light! 2. You're in prison - aint that hard to live a 'virtuous' life when your ass is guarded 24/7 to make sure you don't do the shit you did before.

So, you don't believe that one can change in prison? Isn't it why the prisons actually exist - to change people for the better?

Offline Rogue

  • The Bratling ~ her Mx ~ they/them unless other pronouns/gender are specified please~
  • Champion
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: delens solem lunam facti sunt ei
  • ~Edenmon Master~ ~GenderFluid~
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2014, 01:59:56 PM »
I'm honestly for the death penalty. Does every case deserve it? No. Did this one? Yes.

Honestly she should have been off the streets before this. Perhaps in a drug rehab program instead of prison. But if, when sober, you are still proud of yourself, as Oni said, then you don't deserve a second chance. (My assertion that she was sober while on the stand is based on the fact that she wouldn't be able to get a hold of drugs but I could be wrong.) There are many people who had the same circumstances occur (divorced parents, falling into drugs and prostitution and with a bad boyfriend etc.) who did not murder someone and felt remorse for their actions while sober.

But that's the difference. This person didn't feel remorse for their actions until they "found God"? Bull shit. She was plying for support from anti-death penalty groups and Christians.

This also implies that atheists are amoral people which simply isn't true. Because if she'd simply said "I'm sorry. I'm better now. I didn't mean it." without her "I found God" statement, no one would believe her. Why should they believe her because she found a religion that she could utilize for support?

If she actually "found God" as she said, she'd say something along the lines of "Let God judge me for my mistakes." and have gone to rest peacefully.

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2014, 02:42:53 PM »
Beorning with all due respect you asked a question so do not be offended or surprised if you do not get the answer that you might prefer. You have your opinion and that is cool, it just does not fit my world view or morality and that is cool also.

But on to the reason I chimed in again. You asked me and some others what if it was me or what if I was falsely accused. The answer is simple, I do not put myself in those situations where that is a concern. Even people who are exonerated often put themselves in questionable situations.  As for me I do not do drugs, I do not rob people, I do not do things to put myself in that sort of a predicament. So I do not worry about facing a capital charge. It is pretty simple really there are repercussions for actions and I do not take actions I do not like the repercussions for. The only time I could foresee myself in a possible situation like such would be if someone did something like this to a member of my family. If that was the case I will take my chances with the jury after I send my greeting to the perpetrator at 4000 FPS.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2014, 02:56:12 PM »
I really don't understand why you are being so... cynical.

The idea behind the prison system is that it's supposed to change people. You put them into extreme conditions and make them re-think their lives. Now... why do you insist on claiming that it wasn't the case with Tucker? Okay, so she wasn't immediately regretful about her murders... but does it mean that she couldn't have come to different conclusions later on? Even if that conlusion came from her having faced the perspective of being executed... so what? She could've changed.

She married a minister, after all. So, she was fooling all the time? All these 14 years, she remained a cold-hearted manipulator who played a good Christian for the media in a desperate bid to save her life?

Beorning with all due respect you asked a question so do not be offended or surprised if you do not get the answer that you might prefer.

I'm not offended. I'm just discussing the issue. As we are on a discussion board and all :)

Quote
But on to the reason I chimed in again. You asked me and some others what if it was me or what if I was falsely accused.

Actually, I didn't asked about you being *falsely* accused. You need to realize that you might end up in prison for doing something criminal for real.

Quote
The answer is simple, I do not put myself in those situations where that is a concern. Even people who are exonerated often put themselves in questionable situations.  As for me I do not do drugs, I do not rob people, I do not do things to put myself in that sort of a predicament. So I do not worry about facing a capital charge.

Okay, maybe we're not talking capital charge here. But how about imprisonment... Do you drive, for once? If so, then every day, there's a chance that you'll kill somebody on the road. You can get many years of prison for that...

How about crimes of passion? How about assault? Can you can honestly say that you're absolutely sure you'll never beat up anyone?

Offline Rogue

  • The Bratling ~ her Mx ~ they/them unless other pronouns/gender are specified please~
  • Champion
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: delens solem lunam facti sunt ei
  • ~Edenmon Master~ ~GenderFluid~
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2014, 03:03:48 PM »
People who commit crimes of passion are typically regretful soon after. After the passion died down. That's why they're called crimes of passion.

As for the prison system being a reform system: There's a reason people go back to jail rather frequently and there are high chances you'll be a repeat offender.

Okay, maybe we're not talking capital charge here. But how about imprisonment... Do you drive, for once? If so, then every day, there's a chance that you'll kill somebody on the road. You can get many years of prison for that...

Yes you can get many years in prison for that. But there's this wonderfully beautiful thing you can do called driving safely. This means not using your phone while driving and keeping your eyes on the things around you. There may be a chance, but it's relatively low if you actually keep an eye on your surroundings and obey traffic laws.

As for me: yeah I sometimes use my phone while driving. I don't text but I'll call. And if I get into an accident that kills someone because of that and it was my fault there was an accident, it's my fault. And I'll put on my big girl pants and go to jail.

Edit:minor grammatical error.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 03:15:36 PM by Rogue of TimeyWimey Stuff »

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2014, 03:13:14 PM »
We could toss what ifs at one another from here to infinity and it really proves nada. Suffice to say Rogue summed up my feelings for the most part. Other than yes, I am that cynical I have worked for the government for 24 years after all  :-)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Do you remember Karla Faye Tucker?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2014, 04:42:46 PM »
As for the prison system being a reform system: There's a reason people go back to jail rather frequently and there are high chances you'll be a repeat offender.

So, you don't believe in criminals reforming? And every person who claims that they changed in prison is lying just to get sympathy?

Quote
Yes you can get many years in prison for that. But there's this wonderfully beautiful thing you can do called driving safely. This means not using your phone while driving and keeping your eyes on the things around you. There may be a chance, but it's relatively low if you actually keep an eye on your surroundings and obey traffic laws.

As for me: yeah I sometimes use my phone while driving. I don't text but I'll call. And if I get into an accident that kills someone because of that and it was my fault there was an accident, it's my fault. And I'll put on my big girl pants and go to jail.

And if that happened, wouldn't you want other people to treat you with a basic degree of decency? Of would you be okay with them saying "B***h had it coming, she's obviously evil and should rot in prison"?