You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 04, 2016, 08:21:19 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Something that angered me greatly, and my response  (Read 704 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline marauder13Topic starter

  • A Patient Male
  • Lord
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Location: Waiting in the shadows to surprise you
  • Gender: Male
  • Always on the lookout for my next friend.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« on: June 12, 2014, 08:49:55 PM »
G'Day all,

I received the following email from someone that I hold dear to me, but that they thought this worthy of forwarding made me close to sick. So, in one of the few times I have the courage and the will to actually do so, I responded with my thoughts and feelings about what was said. Below is the original email, and my response. Any errors in my response are due to my enthusiasm and lack of Google Fu.

For the record - I would loosely fall under the banner of Christian, and I am an Irish descended Australian. So, you can see what my biases are and where they come from. :)

~||~

On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:46 AM, {redacted} wrote:
     
    Muslims -  My Arse
    Barack Obama, during his Cairo speech, said: "I know, too, that Islam has
    Always been a part of America's history."
    ----------------------------
    AN AMERICAN CITIZEN'S RESPONSE

    Dear Mr. Obama:

    Have you ever seen a Muslim hospital?

    Have you heard a Muslim orchestra?
     
    Have you seen a Muslim band march in a parade?
     
    Have you witnessed a Muslim charity?

    Have you seen Muslims, shake hands with a Muslim Girl Scout?

    Have you seen a Muslim Candy Striper?

    Have your seen a Muslim do anything that contributes positively to the
    American way of life ????

    The answer is no, you did not. Just ask yourself WHY ???

     
    Were those Muslims that were in America when the Pilgrims first landed?
    Funny, I thought they were Native American Indians.
     
    Were those Muslims that celebrated the first Thanksgiving day? Sorry again,
    Those were Pilgrims and Native American Indians.

    Can you show me one Muslim signature on the: United States Constitution?
    Declaration of Independence? Bill of Rights? Didn't think so.
     
    Did Muslims fight for this country's freedom from England? No.
     
    Did Muslims fight during the Civil War to free the slaves in America? No,
    They did not. In fact, Muslims to this day are still the largest traffickers
    In human slavery. Your own half-brother, a devout Muslim, still advocates
    Slavery himself, even though Muslims of Arabic descent refer to black
    Muslims as "pug nosed slaves." Says a lot of what the Muslim world really
    Thinks of your family's "rich Islamic heritage," doesn't it Mr. Obama?
     
    Where were Muslims during the Civil Rights era of this country? Not present.
     
    There are no pictures or media accounts of Muslims walking side by side with
     
    Martin Luther King, Jr. Or helping to advance the cause of Civil Rights.
     
    Where were Muslims during this country's Woman's Suffrage era? Again, not
    Present. In fact, devout Muslims demand that women are subservient to men in
    The Islamic culture ---so much so, that often they are beaten for not
    Wearing the 'hajib' or for talking to a man who is not a direct family
    Member or their husband. Yep, the Muslims are all for women's rights, aren't
    They?

    Where were Muslims during World War II? They were aligned with Adolf Hitler.
     
    The Muslim grand mufti himself met with Adolf Hitler, reviewed the troops
    And accepted support from the Nazi's in killing Jews.
    Finally, Mr. Obama, where were Muslims on Sept. 11th, 2001? If they weren't
    Flying planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or a field in
    Pennsylvania killing nearly 3,000 people on our own soil, they were
    Rejoicing in the Middle East.
     
    No one can dispute the pictures shown from all parts of the Muslim world
    Celebrating on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and other cable news networks that day.
    Strangely, the very "moderate" Muslims who's arses you bent over backwards
    To kiss in Cairo , Egypt on June 4th were stone cold silent post 9-11. To
    Many Americans, their silence has meant approval for the acts of that day.
     
    And THAT, Mr. Obama, is the "rich heritage" Muslims have here in America...
     
    Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the Barbary Pirates. They were Muslims.
     
    And now we can add November 5, 2009 - the slaughter of American soldiers at
    Fort Hood by a Muslim major, who is a doctor and a psychiatrist , who was
    Supposed to be counselling soldiers returning from battle in Iraq and
    Afghanistan.

    That, Mr. Obama is the "Muslim heritage" in America.
     
    P.S. Now, also adding to the Boston Marathon bombings and the London killing
    And be-heading of a soldier on the street in London!!!

    EVERY CANADIAN, ENGLISHMAN, Australian and AMERICAN MUST READ THIS !! Be sure to SEND IT TO ALL.
     
    Muslim Heritage, my arse. And if you don't share this message, you are part  of the problem!



Well, in keeping with the request at the bottom of this original part of the email, I am going to forward it, but with my personal opinions attached.

I find this to be highly disgusting that due to the efforts of a group of terrorists who have used religion as one of their platforms, an entire group of people are being treated like criminals. The main issue I have is the perception that because some terrorists are Islamic, all Islamic people are terrorists or supporters of that.

Pardon my language, but that is complete bullshit.

The first batch of inflammatory questions have already been answered in this piece. A piece which answers most of the points up to "Have you seen a Muslim do anything that contributes positively to the American way of life?"

Now, about the Girl Guides and Candy Stripers - have you seen a Jewish man shake hands with a Jewish Girl Guide? Or seen a jewish Candy Striper? Why aren't Jews being ostracized over this too? Or the Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintos or any of the other well known religions?
It is a clear piece of history that there were no Muslims in the early years of the colonies and the first years of the USA because there were only British & Europeans that settled there first. None of them did anything because there were none there. Their complete absence does not make them bad. Not all of those who signed it were Christians, by their own words. By the way, why aren't Jews viewed in the same way? None of them signed those documents, so why are they not spoken badly of for that failure?

There are references to individuals of the Muslim Faith fighting for the colonies in the War of Independence, as well as for the United States during the War of 1812 and fighting for the North in the Civil War. A little research by anyone who can find www.google.com would be able to find evidence in support.

In World War Two, there are examples of a British Muslim Woman spying on the Nazis, a woman who was executed by the Nazis, as well as other people working to defeat the Germans. Numerous soldiers of allied nations were probably Muslim, as well as Jewish. Just because an overwhelming majority were Christian doesn't mean that the Muslims native to Allied countries were not serving. Look no further than people like Abdul Hafiz VC , or Fazal Din VC - just two Muslims who showed their courage and loyalty in the armed services of Commonwealth Armed Forces.

Now concerning Civil Rights, how can someone overlook Malcolm X, a Muslim who worked with Martin Luther King in the height of the period. Of course, it is easy to do if you don't want to see something rather obvious.

Now, when the Trade Centre attack occurred, what of the Muslim students in the University in Manhattan who looked on in complete shock at what was occurring? Where were the millions of Muslims in American when it happened? Were they rejoicing in the streets? Were they packed into the planes?

Oh, was it mentioned that the first country to recognize the United States of America was the Caliphate of Morocco in 1777? And regarding the Barbary Pirates, sure they were Islamic, but then what about the Christians in Mexico that the USA fought? And the Christians they fought from England (1776) and again in 1812, along with who are now Canadian?

If you want to be outraged over a religion, why hold back on Islam. Christianity, as it is espoused in the US atm, is more that happy to repress EVERYONE via Christian beliefs. Evolution is a lie, therefore all science can't be trusted. That women can't be trusted to make their own decisions concerning reproductive health care. That women don't need to concern themselves over the fact that they are not earning the same amount of money for the same kind of work with the same level of qualifications as men. Also, that the Christians in the US generally support the murder of doctors who perform abortions.

And let us not forget one of the most well know terrorist groups in modern times - The Irish Republican Army, a CATHOLIC group. So, are all Catholics, and because that is a Christian denomination, all Christians to be hated with the same fervour? if you are going to hate a religion for the deeds of a few, then be consistent about it.

The United States, England, Canada and Australia all support the freedom to Worship whatever religion a citizen wants without fear of persecution, as long as said belief does not bring harm to a fellow citizen. What has been spewed by the original poster, and supported by those who have propagated this, is nothing but pure hate mongering that does little to solve any of the problems brought about by what has happened.

Individuals, and small groups, who have twisted the word and meaning of the beliefs, have done evil things. The religion itself has not done the evil. As Jesus said, "Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone." This is even more true of those decrying a religion, and supporting their own. Every religion has had fanatics that have done great evil in the name of their religion.

Plus, on a final note, I do believe that the Islamic religion holds that Abrahim and Jesus are prophets of their religion, just like Mohammad. And just as Jesus word ushered in a new Covenant between the people and their Deity, Mohammad did the same. Also, the Qu'ran has entire chapters and passages of the Bible within it's text.


One last point of how ridiculous and angering this whole out look is. When the secret service challenges the New York Police Department's Chaplin at the September 11 memorial. Beside that, just think of the implications of who their Chaplain is, and who the NYPD is willingly getting their spiritual counseling from.


Now, my request to those that receive this, that you forward it to everyone else you forward the original email, so that they may have a chance to see that the points raised are far from the complete truth.



Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2014, 09:25:16 PM »
Great response.  It is ridiculous to single out Muslims, but as an immigrant from India myself, I can tell you that at least a portion of this anti-immigrant sentiment is self-induced by us in the immigrant community, because of a subconscious tendency for several of us to self-isolate along racial lines, rather than adopt the cultural norms of our new country.

Being an American, our shared culture here was entirely the result of immigrants, so there's a constant wave of transformation and integration.  But for places like Europe and Australia - with an omnipresent dominant culture, as there very well should be, I can empathize in certain ways with the existing population feeling defensive about the loss of their native culture.  For example, there are entire areas of London that have transformed from being British in culture to almost entirely Indian and Pakistani in culture.  While I'm not suggesting this as an inherently negative thing, we can certainly "understand" why they espouse the views they do.

Offline mia h

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 03:35:37 AM »
A couple more thoughts for your friend.
Where were Muslims during the Civil Rights era of this country? Not present.
There are no pictures or media accounts of Muslims walking side by side with Martin Luther King, Jr. Or helping to advance the cause of Civil Rights.
Muhammad Ali

P.S. Now, also adding to the Boston Marathon bombings and the London killing And be-heading of a soldier on the street in London!!!
While the murder of Lee Rigby was brutal and horrific, his attackers didn't decapitate him. If you're going to tell 'the truth' then tell the truth.

EVERY CANADIAN, ENGLISHMAN, Australian and AMERICAN MUST READ THIS !! Be sure to SEND IT TO ALL.
And what have English women done to be excluded from having to read this errr.. pile of crap? Never mind anyone who's Scottish, Welsh or Irish etc.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 09:27:31 AM »
And what have English women done to be excluded from having to read this errr.. pile of crap? Never mind anyone who's Scottish, Welsh or Irish etc.

I rather think that most of them wouldn't complain about the 'slight'. 

Offline consortium11

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 10:17:14 AM »
I take the basic position that anything that goes around as a chain email/facebook post is almost certainly incorrect and normally offensively so.

Offline GypsyRose

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 10:56:50 AM »
Quote
And if you don't share this message you are part  of the problem!

Even if I agree with something, if there's a threat or emotional blackmail attached to any message I receive, it just gets deleted -- even if I agree with every word otherwise.  If the message doesn't stand without relying on such juvenile tactics, then it's not worth passing on, even as a cute picture on my Facebook which is about all I ever 'mass share' anyway.

---

And no, I agree with nothing in the original email at all.  Hate, bigotry and willful ignorance is not exclusive to any particular religious claim, gender, political bent, national boundary, etc. but sadly exists in them all.   Sad that the person(s) who wrote this and those who will forward it with glee apparently didn't recognize the irony.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 11:01:25 AM »
Even if I agree with something, if there's a threat or emotional blackmail attached to any message I receive, it just gets deleted -- even if I agree with every word otherwise.  If the message doesn't stand without relying on such juvenile tactics, then it's not worth passing on, even as a cute picture on my Facebook which is about all I ever 'mass share' anyway.

I used to have a thing where I pointed out that people who sent me chain letters were actively wishing me ill - as I have a standing policy not to forward on chain letters.  If you send me something to forward on 'or else' with that knowledge, then obviously you are intending the 'or else'.

Offline DTW

  • Survival Of The Fittest , I ate my twin in the womb.
  • Suspended
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Live From Hell
  • Gender: Male
  • Lions donít lose sleep over the opinion of sheep
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 11:13:56 AM »
Did this guy seriously just ask where Muslims were during the civil rights era of this country?

No. Seriously? Does he not know who Malcolm X  is?  He's realistically the second most important man in the history of that movement and he was very very much a Muslim.

God that's really really  dumb. Like incredibly dumb.

Offline Sabre

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 02:56:44 PM »
An amusing letter.

What AMERICAN CITIZEN says 'arse' instead of 'ass' by the way?

Quote
It is a clear piece of history that there were no Muslims in the early years of the colonies and the first years of the USA because there were only British & Europeans that settled there first. None of them did anything because there were none there.

There were most likely thousands if not tens of thousands of Muslims in the American colonies by that point.  The reason they're not present in the list of signatories of the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution is because they were almost all slaves or ex-slaves.  Where are all the African signatories of these documents by the way?  Are they not, then, American?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 03:00:38 PM by Sabre »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 03:02:31 PM »
An amusing letter.

What AMERICAN CITIZEN says 'arse' instead of 'ass' by the way?

I say arse as well as ass. *shrugs*

Offline Sabre

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 03:40:27 PM »
Guess I'm part of the ass problem in AMERICA then.  Time to climb the fence to Mexico.  Maybe Australia, since that's not in all caps in the letter and thus seems like it's still a devil's den of heathens like me.

But speaking seriously, chain mail like this is nothing special.  I've seen first hand how the process starts and propagates during my time volunteering for a local Baptist church in north Mississippi long ago (little did they know I was a Muslim sleeper agent come to spy on their defenses, the fools!).  I don't see it as such a specific problem but one that affects the entire internet.  With so much information people are overloaded, and generally begin to settle into little niches on the web where flow of information is localized for their tastes, prejudices, and biases.  I can guarantee you that there are equivalent chain letters flooding inboxes among Muslim communities, too.

It's a form of primitive social networking that survives because of how insular it is, and except for cases like the OP where someone from inside the ring shares it to people not accustomed to the messages and beliefs of that group, we wouldn't even know they existed.

Edit:  Also, it seems this piece of chain mail has some history behind it already.  There are quite a few blog posts from 2012 and onwards, and considering Obama's speech in Cairo was in 2009 it's likely to be much older, too, and that it only seeped out of the insular webring it thrives in by 2011 and 2012.  The original, or at least the versions from 2012, seem to only include AMERICANs in its list of targeted readers, but it seems that other nationals were added on (and 'ass' changed to 'arse') as it seeped into international web circles.

What's funny is that no one bothered to correct the grammar after five years, but they felt like changing ass and adding an outreach to canadians, brits (sorry, ENGLISHMEN, can't trust those sneaky Scots, Irish, or Welshmen), and Australians.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 03:58:48 PM by Sabre »

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2014, 03:53:55 PM »
I used to have a thing where I pointed out that people who sent me chain letters were actively wishing me ill - as I have a standing policy not to forward on chain letters.  If you send me something to forward on 'or else' with that knowledge, then obviously you are intending the 'or else'.
I sent them back to the person who emailed it to me telling them I was cancelling out their good karma or what ever.  They finally stopped sending me stuff like that.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2014, 04:11:52 PM »
My use of 'arse' tends to come in context.  Usually, it's when I'm talking with people outside the US for a significant amount of time, and my vocabulary gets 'stuck'.  I blame my dialectical idiosyncrasies on all the British imports on public television.  ;D

Offline KalebHyde

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2014, 06:16:23 AM »
I completely agree that lumping everyone in any ethnic or racial group is foolish to the extreme, whether it be Muslim extremism, Christian bigotry, or white privilege.  No grouping is responsible for the small percentage of radical elements that exist within them.  It is important though to stand in support of those moderate Muslims who fight against Sharia law or at least the form which a few would use to justify the murder of women, homosexuals, and non Muslims.  Just as the vast majority can band together against the IRA or the KKK, all faiths should join in the battle against Al Qaeda and their offshoots. 

As for Malcolm X, not sure he is the best example of a peaceful movement, but to each their own.  I was not around then, but personally I would associate the civil rights movement with King or even Parks.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 09:14:33 AM »
Malcolm X certainly wasn't a representative of peaceful civil rights reform, but there's no questioning the fact that he was present and involved in the civil rights movement.  It would be like denying the fact that Stalin was involved in the Allied victory of WWII.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 04:23:29 PM »
And he knew it, too - he's quoted in Correta Scott King's autobiography:
Quote
I want Dr. King to know that I didn't come to Selma to make his job difficult. I really did come thinking I could make it easier. If the white people realize what the alternative is, perhaps they will be more willing to hear Dr. King.

He was perfectly willing to resort to violence to get rights, but he was also in a way knowingly playing the ogre so that King's peaceful rights movement would have more traction.

Offline Sabre

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2014, 05:01:08 PM »
Malcolm X was a militant black nationalist for the majority of his activist career, but he wasn't exactly Muslim as most people today understand it until around 1964 when he decided to visit the Middle East, Africa and Europe.  Back then the Nation of Islam (and really, today still) was a very strange political movement that was only tangentially Muslim by their adoption of random Arabic names.  The organization was really out there with strange beliefs about African blacks being the original race, whites being naturally evil, and their leader being Allah incarnate, and other perplexing heresies.

It was after his foreign tour where he visited Mecca, and saw the way Muslims from all races were united, that he realized his policy of segregation and anti-white hatred was misguided.  The NoI however had him assassinated for this change in loyalties and views.  It's really a shame that much of his legacy has been from his radical days and not his later awakening:

http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/int_parks.htm

Offline Wheeler97

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 09:59:23 AM »
The organization was really out there with strange beliefs about African blacks being the original race...

As far as that part... they were oddly correct. We're fairly certain that the first development of humans was in central West Africa. They eventually moved up into what is now the Middle East and up into southern Russia. The groups split, some moving to Asia and evolving differently to suit the environment. The others moved west to Europe and developed lighter skin. Some groups that moved East went up and crossed the land bridge between Siberia and Alaska and would become the native populations of the American continents.

As for the general topic here. Humans are really great at making generalizations. It's a process built into our brains. Unfortunately that also includes clumping together people of certain types.

It's really wrong that Muslims are so hated. Their religious text mentions Jesus by name more than any other Prophet, and he is highly respected. Most original Muslim nations were exceptionally tolerant and the Muslim world was the center of Commerce and Scientific/mathematical achievement. Muslim society would have far surpassed the Europeans if it weren't for sea trade routes bypassing the Middle East and making the Silk Roads obsolete. The wealth of those nations dried up, and it lead to a lot of turmoil that we still see today.

Offline mia h

Re: Something that angered me greatly, and my response
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2014, 10:20:49 AM »
As for the general topic here. Humans are really great at making generalizations. It's a process built into our brains. Unfortunately that also includes clumping together people of certain types.
There is an evolutionary benefit to making generalizations. Try walking and doing math problems, of the "What is 12 x5?" difficulty, most people can manage to do both with no difficulties. But when people do harder problems like "What is 134/7?" they can't walk at the same speed as they did with the easier problems. The easy problem is dealt with by the fast parts of the brain where you don't have to actively "think", the harder problems go to the slow part of the brain and involve some effort. The human brain is essentially a slacker and will take the fast, easy, no effort route whenever it can, which is great for hunting or anything else that where responses are time critical but it does mean that humans are very irrational most of the time.