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Author Topic: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)  (Read 2514 times)

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Offline DTWTopic starter

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Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« on: June 10, 2014, 05:29:42 PM »
How do you deal with the fact that your family  aren't...okay people? It's hard as someone like myself to deal with the fact that my grandfather worked at a factory. He only graduated highschool. He did nothing  with life and I look back and I bring it up conversation with my mother that maybe he could have set a better example for her and she gets mad and I don't get why. He was not good at all. He did nothing with his life. He worked in a factory his whole life and so did he wife.  He wasn't even like supervisor.




He didn't read. He  never volunteered for anything . He was an uncultured...degenerate essentially. He wasn't a drunk and didn't beat his wife but he did nothing good. He just existed and he wasn't a good dad because I said to her , Did you dad ever tell you to go college and tell you to make something and he didn't. My mom went to work at 16. That's pathetic and she worked at a factory. Thankfully during my childhood she bettered herself and went to work at a hospital but I mean this family is a bunch of losers.  They don't own business. They don't have degrees. They're not good people and it's hard for me to deal with that and know how to talk about them without sounding like I dislike them...because I do.

They're just losers. They did nothing for anyone. Not even their kids.  It's sad and I find it annoying that she doesn't find at sad. She thinks it okay that this guy just did nothing with his life. Just had  two kids and a wife and went to work for minimum wage in a factory and then died in his 60s. Jesus Christ. That's  harrowing and she has no problem with that.


They were all terrible people too. Not just my grandfather. My Grandfather and Grandmother had like eight brothers and sisters a piece and they did nothing. I don't have one great uncle who like climbed a mountain or became a mayor or a doctor or anything. They just popped more awful children and went to work for minimum wage.  Nobody in this family for literal generations had done anything to make the world  a better place or ease the suffering of others. They just did nothing and it drives me crazy. You would think...one of them  would like go to college or  open a soup kitchen or work at the ASPCA. NO! None of them. They are all just losers.

Nothing good came from there existence. No donations to charity , no running a mile for cancer , no inventing the can opener. Just nothing. Didn't even fight in any wars. They just came and  didn't do anything of note.


I can't stand them. I really don't like them and I don't know how to deal with it. They're just failures. That's the only word for it. They didn't do anything worth a damn at all and I don't know how to reconcile with the fact that I should feel bad when bad stuff happens to them or feel bad that like  seventy five percent of them are dead. Honestly , The difference between them being dead or alive is nill. They did nothing! Nothing at all! Nothing. Not a single thing in their life that was important. Didn't  read my mother Shakespear or take her to a play or leave her a small fortune or  paint! I would take a painter at this point. You don't have to be a good painter. Just paint impressionism and you'd be  the best person in my family for at least three generations.


Oh god. I had to vent. It's just so bad. They are like worthless.

Edit:  It might seem harsh but it's the truth. Not one college graduate in multiple generations. No Authors , No Musicians , No Scientist  Generation after generation   of nobodies.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 05:37:33 PM by DTW »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 05:43:47 PM »
How do you deal with the fact that your family  aren't...okay people? It's hard as someone like myself to deal with the fact that my grandfather worked at a factory. He only graduated highschool. He did nothing  with life and I look back and I bring it up conversation with my mother that maybe he could have set a better example for her and she gets mad and I don't get why. He was not good at all. He did nothing with his life. He worked in a factory his whole life and so did he wife.  He wasn't even like supervisor.




He didn't read. He  never volunteered for anything . He was an uncultured...degenerate essentially. He wasn't a drunk and didn't beat his wife but he did nothing good. He just existed and he wasn't a good dad because I said to her , Did you dad ever tell you to go college and tell you to make something and he didn't. My mom went to work at 16. That's pathetic and she worked at a factory. Thankfully during my childhood she bettered herself and went to work at a hospital but I mean this family is a bunch of losers.  They don't own business. They don't have degrees. They're not good people and it's hard for me to deal with that and know how to talk about them without sounding like I dislike them...because I do.

They're just losers. They did nothing for anyone. Not even their kids.  It's sad and I find it annoying that she doesn't find at sad. She thinks it okay that this guy just did nothing with his life. Just had  two kids and a wife and went to work for minimum wage in a factory and then died in his 60s. Jesus Christ. That's  harrowing and she has no problem with that.


They were all terrible people too. Not just my grandfather. My Grandfather and Grandmother had like eight brothers and sisters a piece and they did nothing. I don't have one great uncle who like climbed a mountain or became a mayor or a doctor or anything. They just popped more awful children and went to work for minimum wage.  Nobody in this family for literal generations had done anything to make the world  a better place or ease the suffering of others. They just did nothing and it drives me crazy. You would think...one of them  would like go to college or  open a soup kitchen or work at the ASPCA. NO! None of them. They are all just losers.

Nothing good came from there existence. No donations to charity , no running a mile for cancer , no inventing the can opener. Just nothing. Didn't even fight in any wars. They just came and  didn't do anything of note.


I can't stand them. I really don't like them and I don't know how to deal with it. They're just failures. That's the only word for it. They didn't do anything worth a damn at all and I don't know how to reconcile with the fact that I should feel bad when bad stuff happens to them or feel bad that like  seventy five percent of them are dead. Honestly , The difference between them being dead or alive is nill. They did nothing! Nothing at all! Nothing. Not a single thing in their life that was important. Didn't  read my mother Shakespear or take her to a play or leave her a small fortune or  paint! I would take a painter at this point. You don't have to be a good painter. Just paint impressionism and you'd be  the best person in my family for at least three generations.


Oh god. I had to vent. It's just so bad. They are like worthless.

Edit:  It might seem harsh but it's the truth. Not one college graduate in multiple generations. No Authors , No Musicians , No Scientist  Generation after generation   of nobodies.

Oh wow. Im not sure what to say ..  or rather I wont say what I am thinking because your whole rant just offended me.

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 05:48:52 PM »
People have different values. Honestly, I don't think it's possible to say someone didn't do anything with their life with any accuracy, because you haven't walked in their shoes. Maybe your grandfather found value in what he did, and liked what he was doing. Maybe he didn't, but he worked in a factory to make ends meet. Any person out there will have their own hobbies and interests. Just because you don't see them as being of value, doesn't mean they didn't mean a great deal to him. Life doesn't always go in the direction you mean it to and while so many people have degrees today, nowhere near as many did back then. He probably had a lot of skills you don't, simply because they were things he was into or that were a part of life back then, but aren't now in the environment that you live in. He sounds like a hard working man.

I don't think it's possible that someone 'didn't do anything good' with their life. Everyone does good things, even if it's by chance or coincidence, but no one is all bad. He doesn't sound like a bad person, just as if he led life in his own way, but doing things that you don't find value in.

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 05:49:09 PM »
Oh wow. Im not sure what to say ..  or rather I wont say what I am thinking because your whole rant just offended me.

+1

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 05:49:54 PM »
People have different values. Honestly, I don't think it's possible to say someone didn't do anything with their life with any accuracy, because you haven't walked in their shoes. Maybe your grandfather found value in what he did, and liked what he was doing. Maybe he didn't, but he worked in a factory to make ends meet. Any person out there will have their own hobbies and interests. Just because you don't see them as being of value, doesn't mean they didn't mean a great deal to him. Life doesn't always go in the direction you mean it to and while so many people have degrees today, nowhere near as many did back then. He probably had a lot of skills you don't, simply because they were things he was into or that were a part of life back then, but aren't now in the environment that you live in. He sounds like a hard working man.

I don't think it's possible that someone 'didn't do anything good' with their life. Everyone does good things, even if it's by chance or coincidence, but no one is all bad. He doesn't sound like a bad person, just as if he led life in his own way, but doing things that you don't find value in.

+1

Offline Tsenta

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 05:55:05 PM »
Most factory jobs back in your grandparents' time...it was the only decent job a person could get. There weren't many options as there are now...so working their asses off in a factory to provide for their kids...IS a good thing.


OT: I'm just...done with mom. I was supposed to housesit for her and and uncle next week but...no gas money. Mom keeps going "We can use your emergency funds!" like it's a fucking magic method of cash.   No, mom. There ARE no emergency funds! You already OWE me $40! And I SPENT the emergency funds on groceries, to feed you!  THERE ARE NONE! WHERE AM I SUPPOSED TO PULL MONEY OUT OF? MY ASS!?

Offline DTWTopic starter

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 06:18:39 PM »
Oh wow. Im not sure what to say ..  or rather I wont say what I am thinking because your whole rant just offended me.

Why? You are here. That implies that you write  and create and think. They didn't. It's not about hobbies and interest. It's about the benefit you are to society. I just want one person in family who was like. Who read  Sartre  and  Kierkegaard. This shouldn't be offensive. It shouldn't be wrong to have a quest for knowledge!

What if  MLK JR was like my grandfather or  Harvey Milk? and just went to work at a factory?  America would be worse off. It's not offensive to want a generation of MLK Jr's and Harvey Milk's. They were good people and there should be more of them. I'm sorry I want more Barack Obama's then factory workers. 

 
Edit:   Malcolm   X died at 39. His dad died when he was six and spent six years in prison yet despite that he did more then my grandfather did in six decades. Not everyone can be Malcolm X but what about a doctor or a lawye?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 06:29:38 PM by DTW »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 06:24:11 PM »
Why? You are here. That implies that you write  and create and think. They didn't. It's not about hobbies and interest. It's about the benefit you are to society. I just want one person in family who was like. Who read  Sartre  and  Kierkegaard. This shouldn't be offensive. It shouldn't be wrong to have a quest for knowledge!

What if  MLK JR was like my grandfather or  Harvey Milk? and just went to work at a factory?  America would be worse off. It's not offensive to want a generation of MLK Jr's and Harvey Milk's. They were good people and there should be more of them. I'm sorry I want more Barack Obama's then factory workers.

Guess what. I didnt graduate high school - I received my GED. Guess what... I have never completed college. I work a crap job for crap pay. My family is full of blue collar workers who struggle to get by. There are no scientists,  no doctors, no lawyers, no activists in my family. I am the most open minded of my family and my daughter may well be the best educated IF she goes through with her plan for college.

I am offended because, according to you, those of us who bust our assess at crap jobs are worthless. Thank you for adding to my already shitty depression.

Offline DTWTopic starter

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2014, 06:27:26 PM »
Guess what. I didnt graduate high school - I received my GED. Guess what... I have never completed college. I work a crap job for crap pay. My family is full of blue collar workers who struggle to get by. There are no scientists,  no doctors, no lawyers, no activists in my family. I am the most open minded of my family and my daughter may well be the best educated IF she goes through with her plan for college.

I am offended because, according to you, those of us who bust our assess at crap jobs are worthless. Thank you for adding to my already shitty depression.

Sorry. I insulted you. I didn't mean you.

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2014, 06:33:13 PM »
It was such a general statement, DTW.  Many families don't have the resources to further their education or the encouragement to do so either.  Yet somehow you are one of the results of those grandparents who lived and worked and died.  I never read Sartre or Kierkegaard and I'm a high school graduate but have no college on my resume.  In a way your post made me feel sad that your vision is limited.

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 06:47:16 PM »
Why? You are here. That implies that you write  and create and think. They didn't. It's not about hobbies and interest. It's about the benefit you are to society. I just want one person in family who was like. Who read  Sartre  and  Kierkegaard. This shouldn't be offensive. It shouldn't be wrong to have a quest for knowledge!

The United States' (and every other developed country in the world's) infrastructure is the result of millions upon millions of ordinary, hard-working people working minimum wage.  They are doing honest work, for hours on end, and you find this offensive?

I had to call my insurance company a few weeks ago due to an insurance claim.  The lady who picked up the phone was probably working for minimum wage, but she did her job so well, that I couldn't help but smile - and even wrote an email to my insurance company saying what a great job she did. 

If you want to rant about anyone, rant about those who are willfully unemployed.

Offline Nimmy

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 06:56:24 PM »
Why? You are here. That implies that you write  and create and think. They didn't. It's not about hobbies and interest. It's about the benefit you are to society. I just want one person in family who was like. Who read  Sartre  and  Kierkegaard. This shouldn't be offensive. It shouldn't be wrong to have a quest for knowledge!

What if  MLK JR was like my grandfather or  Harvey Milk? and just went to work at a factory?  America would be worse off. It's not offensive to want a generation of MLK Jr's and Harvey Milk's. They were good people and there should be more of them. I'm sorry I want more Barack Obama's then factory workers. 

 
Edit:   Malcolm   X died at 39. His dad died when he was six and spent six years in prison yet despite that he did more then my grandfather did in six decades. Not everyone can be Malcolm X but what about a doctor or a lawye?


I have a Bachelor's, and I have no idea who the fuck Kierkegaard is, let alone what he wrote.

My oldest aunt on my mother's side has a nursing degree, the first one to get more education (my mother being the second, my youngest aunt being the third) in a long line of mill workers, and she turned out to be a leech who refuses to take responsibility for her actions. Education doesn't make someone a better or more worthwhile human being. My grandmother, high-school educated waitress and seamstress as she was to help support four kids, is worth far more than my aunt is.

Offline Aiden

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 08:15:38 PM »
Not everyone can be a great musician or artist or great mind. I look at some of the "artist" of this generation and just roll my eyes.

Puking on a canvas does not make you an artist.
Shaking your ass on TV does not mean you are contributing to music.

I guess my views are exactly the opposite, we have too many "great" artist and musicians in a world, we could do with less.

I have been struggling with what I want to do with myself, career wise. To me, stability has always been the goal for me. I don't care if I don't climb a mountain or become "famous" for one reason or another. To me raising a family, getting married and being able to provide a roof over their head would be more than enough for me.

I have actually been looking into becoming a blue collar worker, I see nothing wrong with working a honest paying job and being a nobody.


Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2014, 09:29:05 PM »
Well, if you want to leave a legacy like that behind then do so yourself.  If this is the family that you wish to create for your offspring or the offspring of your family, then do so.  For you that might be something of value and something worthwhile to pursue.  I commend you on doing so.  Others do not have that option or they place something else over such things.  Perhaps your grandfather had dreams and aspirations once of being a soldier, a surgeon or maybe management.  Maybe he placed putting food on the table over putting himself and his family into risky situations.  There is also the possibility that he just wanted a quiet life of children and work, for some people that is enough.  If that is not enough for you, then go out there and find the life you want.  Donít be angry at someone else for not doing so.

Offline cptBacon

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2014, 10:00:43 PM »
Yikes dude. I strongly think you should do a little more reflection on what it means to be a good person before you condemn your family members, or anybody in a similar situation for that matter. Having an impressive job title, an elite degree, or an abundance of wealth does not inherently make a good person. There is so much more to life and the pursuit of happiness than whether or not someone has a gilded business card. Some people are held back by lack of opportunity or fear of risk, and some are held back by lack of ability. Either way, those things don't make anybody a bad person.

Speaking anecdotally, I too come from a blue collar, manual labor family. One of my grandfathers spent most of his life as a poor farmer. Another was a drunk that wandered from one job to another and never had a dollar to his name. My dad spent almost all his life addicted to one substance or another, and my mom raised three boys as a single mother with a low paying government job.

I, on the other hand, have a degree in physics and astrophysics, work in a very lucrative tech job that pays me several times what any of my forebears make or have made, and I live very comfortably. I say that not to boast, but to drive home my point. By most measures, I'm a successful person. I feel like I'm a successful person. I do not, not even for a moment, feel like I'm better than my family or anyone else doing what they need to do to scrape by. The values and collective experiences of my family life mean much more to me than the new truck in my driveway or my air conditioned office, and those same values and experiences shaped me into the adult I've become. I feel like I owe everything to being poor.

I believe I know what it means to be a good person, and it's not determined by what any piece of paper says about someone. I hope you can discover that for yourself.

Offline Cycle

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2014, 10:12:50 PM »
They did do something.

Something valuable and important.

Something you owe, owe greatly, to an extent you can never repay.



They raised you.






The source of your anger is not them.  It is something else.  They are simply the lighting rod at this place and time.  Find that something else.  Cure it, address it, confront it.  Then the anger will dissipate.  That is the best advice I can give you.

Offline Shjade

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2014, 10:50:53 PM »
They did do something.

Something valuable and important.

Something you owe, owe greatly, to an extent you can never repay.



They raised you.

This, so much. Because frankly, if your existence (and your mother's, obviously) is a nothing accomplishment, that doesn't say much about you, does it? In which case, who are you to judge?

If everyone strove for greatness and only that, there'd be no infrastructure. Sometimes, pragmatism is more important than ambition.

Offline cptBacon

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2014, 11:01:09 PM »
If everyone strove for greatness and only that, there'd be no infrastructure.
I don't even think that's a binary state. One can still strive for excellence in what most would consider a menial job.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2014, 11:10:19 PM »
Why? You are here. That implies that you write  and create and think. They didn't. It's not about hobbies and interest. It's about the benefit you are to society. I just want one person in family who was like. Who read  Sartre  and  Kierkegaard. This shouldn't be offensive. It shouldn't be wrong to have a quest for knowledge!

What if  MLK JR was like my grandfather or  Harvey Milk? and just went to work at a factory?  America would be worse off. It's not offensive to want a generation of MLK Jr's and Harvey Milk's. They were good people and there should be more of them. I'm sorry I want more Barack Obama's then factory workers. 

 
Edit:   Malcolm   X died at 39. His dad died when he was six and spent six years in prison yet despite that he did more then my grandfather did in six decades. Not everyone can be Malcolm X but what about a doctor or a lawye?

You take look at the pictures of the men and women behind the men you mentioned. The folks behind Milk, MLK and X. They were folks like your grandfather and grandmother. They followed or listened. Just because you DON'T see them in the lead doesn't mean the average man doesn't have a role in history. You might not think much of his deeds and life, but consider this.

If he hadn't walked the path he walked.. where would you be today? HIS actions shaped the life your mother lived. Set the course that your family walked.

I find it appallingly inconsiderate to simply dismiss the life he led because you under value it.

I love my brothers, and both of them love me. We walk different paths. My older brother was much smarter, and more importantly .. more organized than me, and it shows. He's a succesful lawyer and businessman, with a LOT of money to be made. He respects my choices in life and offers advice when I ask. His friends sneered at my service when I met them once. Their attitude was.. those who serve in the military don't have what it takes to make it in the 'real world'. Ditto for my comment that I'd like to teach. "Those who can't.. teach" was what one of them said.


This attitude that the life I (or your grandfather) led is less than what you'd do.. is disrespectful. Did he have the options you do? Think things through before you dismiss hard labor and honest (if poorly paying) work. Not everyone gets to be the president of a bank.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2014, 11:41:39 PM »


Edit:  It might seem harsh but it's the truth. Not one college graduate in multiple generations. No Authors , No Musicians , No Scientist  Generation after generation   of nobodies.


On a side note - I can trace my family history on my father's side I am related to Ulysses S. Grant. I am related to Thomas Edison on my mother's side. That doesnt make ME special at all nor is it something I crow about. In fact, I look at as "I am related to a drunk and a thief. Who isn't?"

The fact you are snubbing your nose at your relatives because they aren't famous tells me that you have a lot of growing up to do. Even if you had someone famous in your geneology that has NO bearing on you. YOU have to earn the respect you crave. It is not handed out for free.

Offline Jefepato

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2014, 11:48:10 PM »
Not everyone can be Malcolm X but what about a doctor or a lawye?
I'm a lawyer.  I can assure you that I've contributed far less to society than any minimum-wage factory worker out there.

Offline DTWTopic starter

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2014, 12:02:11 AM »
People seem to really misunderstand what I'm saying.

My grandfather was not the man behind Malcolm X. That's what my mother told me. He went to work , came home and went out to play bingo. He didn't go to see  Malcolm speak when he spoke at a local college. He didn't write a letter to MLK JR. My Grandfather didn't protest the Vietnam War. He was a live in one of the most politically charged generations in american history and he didn't just refuse to take part in it . He didn't care. He didn't teach my mother about it. He didn't look to her and go "See this man. This man is MLK JR and he's a hero. He's fighting for the betterment of  our country and our world. Be like him" No. He just went to work and ignored that. He ignored the struggle of so many people. Why?

It's not about your job. It' s not about his job. It's about the fact that  he never read. Never.  No quest for knowledge.No interest in learning about Anne Frank and her struggle or Thoreau's theories on man.   He never helped my mother with her homework. Explained to her the world and the problems in it and what we could do as a people to solve those problems.

One of my heroes is Diogenes. Diogenes didn't have a job. He lived in a wind barrel but what he did have was intelligence. Wisdom. He sat in that wine barrel and preached. He tried to make the world a better place. Did it have an effect? No but he tried. I would not be harping on this man if he was a freedom rider. If he felt bad. Just felt bad and expressed those feelings to my mother or out loud but he never did. He never cared about the suffering of others in the world. He never stopped for a minute  to look at the horrors of Vietnam or Jim Crow or anything. No he ignored them and went to work.


He didn't vote.

 Is that to much to ask of a man? To vote? To simply cast a decision to help the country? I don't care what way he voted. I just think he should vote. That he should feel someway responsible for his fellowman? Why does that make me the bad guy?



The money. The job tittle those are nothing to me.  Hell , He never told my mother to  better herself. To make  something of herself. To be better then him. He raised in a value of ignorance and never tried to open her world view. To explain our countries history to her.


Maybe I'm being unfair because I never really talked with the man but from what my mother has told me , he does not appear to be someone I  want to look up to.


Offline Blythe

Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2014, 12:43:35 AM »
Giving you a benefit of a doubt here, because you did write the opening post as a rant, and rants are not always the best way to be able to state one's own opinions and feeling sometimes in a more sensible way. I don't think it's factory working or "blue-collar" jobs or things like that that were the focus of what upsets you.

I'd hazard what is upsetting you about your grandfather (and perhaps a lot of other members of your family) is that you view them as complacent when it comes to realizing their potential (and because you presumably believe everyone has potential to be more than just "ordinary"). They could have been many things, but they are not, and you find that frustrating, possibly because for many folk there is an innate drive to grow, to learn, to have opinions and be passionate, and you do not see many in your family as possessing any passion for life (being part of activism, charity, or in the pursuit of knowledge being various ways to show that passion), which is very demoralizing for you.

I can see why that might be frustrating...but you have to remember that your grandfather lived in a different time. There may be reasons you do not know for the choices he did make (even if you find those choices to be pedestrian or lacking in substance). There are individuals who wake up, work, build a family, and live in a small and very personal world. And it is not an inherently bad thing. Such people are the bulk of society, just people living their lives. Most of my dad's side of the family was rather like this, many of them being farmers who had little outside their experience except farming and little desire to move away from it (the few who did worked in factories and the like).

Having meaning in life is very subjective. Your grandfather (or other family members) may be happy with how their lives are and feel they have that purpose and passion. That might be why your mother doesn't really seem to "get" it; she is operating under a very different perspective than you. But if you feel they did not have that passion, let that inspire and motivate you to be that person in your family that stands up and does something that you feel to be great.

No matter how you think or feel about your family, be willing to be that person who steps up to make a difference. Be the person in your family that you would be proud to be.

(Also--sorry if this seems nonsensical to anyone or I have misinterpreted you, DTW. It's a little late at night for me, and I'm a bit groggy.)

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2014, 12:48:47 AM »
There are some people on this forum who go to work, come home, and roleplay every evening away.  They don't go to see guest speakers at colleges, write letters to the president, or attend Occupy Wall Street / Tea Party rallies.  They just don't care, and don't teach their kids about this stuff either.  They may just go to work, pay taxes, and raise families without the intellectual stuff.

Why does that make them a loser or a failure?  So long as they are performing a role in society, how can we criticize them?

Offline DTWTopic starter

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Re: Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2014, 12:53:58 AM »
On a side note - I can trace my family history on my father's side I am related to Ulysses S. Grant. I am related to Thomas Edison on my mother's side. That doesnt make ME special at all nor is it something I crow about. In fact, I look at as "I am related to a drunk and a thief. Who isn't?"

The fact you are snubbing your nose at your relatives because they aren't famous tells me that you have a lot of growing up to do. Even if you had someone famous in your geneology that has NO bearing on you. YOU have to earn the respect you crave. It is not handed out for free.

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying him being famous would elevate me. What I'm saying is that I don't respect man who ignores a world that  is as miserable as ours. I struggle with the reality of this species everyday. The Wars , The Famines , The  Bigotry and I try my best to fix it. Whatever little I can do. I'm not claiming to be Mother Teresa or anything but I try. He didn't. He never did.  Not a single thing.

This isn't about a Job. This is about our responsibility as humans. My Grand Father sat idly by as nineteen year old kids were sent off to die alone in a foreign. Don't tell me that because I think that makes him a bad person , That I need to grow up.

My Grand Father sat idly by as people pelted MLK with rocks and bottles. Swore at him , spit on him and what he do? Nothing. He didn't even explain to his own daughter that that was wrong. That treating people differently because of the color of their skin was incorrect and you all want to paint him as some sort of hero?

He couldn't do anything? Anything at all?  I'm asking to much to except a man who brought  two other life into this world to teach them basic responsibility. That War and Oppression are wrong. That we should fight to better  not just ourselves but the world.

And I'm just looking at the 60s. He lived during the 70s ,  Women's Liberation and what he did do? What did he do for his daughter? Nothing. Let her get a job in a factory at seventy. In the 80s when AIDS plagued the gay community , what did he do? Go to a luncheon? No. Give money? No. Anything? No. He sat by while the world around him suffered and did nothing and by asking him to do anything to find any cause in his life worth fighting for makes me a bad person?


It's not even about fighting. It's just about sleeping. The fact that he could sleep easily at night knowing that this was the world he had given his childern bothers me. It truly does. Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe it did but my mother  didn't tell me. From what I've been told none of this bother. None of it matter to him. MLK , Robbie Kennedy , John Lennon , Jonestown , The Challenger. None of these tragedies. Real honest to gooodness tragedies bothered him or a caused a moments  hesitation in his daily routine. That's not right in my eyes. It's not acceptable.

 The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.