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Author Topic: I Came Across This and Found It Interesting  (Read 966 times)

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Offline kylie

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Re: I Came Across This and Found It Interesting
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 10:27:20 PM »
Quote from: Oniya
Paying attention to one's surroundings is a survival necessity that humans are losing.  If we paid more attention, we'd be more likely to see the people that need help and the people who are just plain dangerous before they reach a point - either from desperation, instability or sheer cussedness - where they end up inflicting casualties.

           I'm not precisely arguing against that.  I'm just saying, American culture is replete with demands for people to look after #1, meaning themselves or their own group.  That makes good business for some, maybe good marketing at times.  There is a huge premium on self-reliance and independence but also on the idea that there "must" be real opportunity and if you don't come out on top, you've only yourself to blame.  Well, it makes sense in such a society that people sometimes have to vent and we can't always find time to search each of them for a Hitler youth-style blog.  It makes sense that we don't pay attention the guy in the next lane sometimes in a crawling mess of traffic after we've been working full-time or more.   

           And waving that all away as "hot-button" issues or some other simple dismissal isn't going to change it.
   
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:49:03 PM by kylie »

Offline kylie

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Re: I Came Across This and Found It Interesting
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2014, 10:48:13 PM »
Quote from: cons11
Following the "social factors in violence" approach surely that means that we should attempt to make it socially unacceptable to criticise the rich for being rich or to argue that there is something wrong with wealth inequality or the like?

           Wow, sounds to me like you don't like dealing with some familiar problem I mention could matter somehow...  So you try to turn it into some policy you know very well I didn't prescribe.

Quote
Should we take their "Slender Man made me" argument as seriously as you seem to take the misogyny in Rodger's?
          As I said in the beginning, sociologists (and many people who think social issues are a factor in some important way) are not always looking for a singular explanation.  I didn't say the guy had only one motive.  I'm not looking for that sort of "just so" story about every facet of single events here. 

          But I do suspect that completely tossing out the idea that there is some serious race, gender, etc. problem surrounding these events and those may also increase the chance of them all happening generally (or perhaps in certain kinds of places, and once in a while to certain people), is a bit blind.

           I also did not say, for example, that Klebold and Harris were good followers of Marxism the philosophy or any particular class agenda.  What I mean is more that, they would have less reason to event hope for the sort of "fame" that goes with vaguely "fomenting revolution" in a society that had fewer issues about say, class.  Though I might wonder if they didn't read enough of Hitler to know, he was talking to a nation that was economically battered and held down systemically (whatever you make of the rationale for that history).  There may well be certain logical comparisons, within limits, in the environment. 

           Reduce the broader issues, and then we can see just how many people remain 'randomly crazy' how often.  Otherwise, it's kind of hard to establish that political culture and social arrangements don't actually fuel the fire across the board.  And until then, might as well at least be open to any ways that might help understand parts of the beast. 

           It's a bit like, reduce the slut-shaming, pay women equally for real, and then we might know better what happens if women actually had equal opportunities.  Until then we have a whole lot of noise that goes with the system and is really part of what happens in SO many places.  It's an environment where people are obviously likely to "blow up" at women -- whether rhetorically or physically, and in big ways or small.

 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:49:59 PM by kylie »

Offline RetributionTopic starter

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Re: I Came Across This and Found It Interesting
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2014, 08:41:13 AM »
Kylie with all due respect you tend to be illustrating the point of the article IMHO. You are trying to make all things fit into your pet areas and views. I am sorry but square pegs do not always fit into round holes, teen traffic deaths have little or nothing to do with environmental causes for example, no matter how noble environmental causes are. How you somehow took this to slut shaming and a comment on the evils of capitalism is utterly beyond me.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 01:39:24 PM by Retribution »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: I Came Across This and Found It Interesting
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2014, 11:31:49 AM »
The point that the author was making is that simply looking at the 'hot-button issues' isn't going to do it.  As parents, we need to be aware of our kids.  As teachers, we need to be aware of our students.  As employees, we need to be aware of our co-workers.  When someone says things like 'they'll be sorry they messed with me', we need to pay attention and not just roll our eyes and say 'Fred's on one of his rants today'. 

It's not just gun control.  It's not just bullying.  It's not just misogyny, misanthropy, hate speech or what-have-you.  It used to be when someone made a comment like 'Maybe we will even start a little rebellion or revolution to fuck things up as much as we can' or talk about 'blowing up the school and murdering classmates', people took notice.  Nowadays, unless it interferes with our personal activities, like our ability to access YouTube, or blocking our drive to work, nobody gives a damn. 

I remember sitting in a traffic jam when some guy was threatening to jump off the American Legion Bridge near DC.  Do you think anyone in that traffic jam gave a flying fuck about the guy other than the fact that he was blocking traffic?  I'm not holding myself out as innocent either.  But this is what the author is talking about. 

Paying attention to one's surroundings is a survival necessity that humans are losing.  If we paid more attention, we'd be more likely to see the people that need help and the people who are just plain dangerous before they reach a point - either from desperation, instability or sheer cussedness - where they end up inflicting casualties.
I'm reposting this, because Oniya is DEAD ON.  This is what the issue is.  We're not looking past the surface, and that's the thing, we need to look deeper.  But we don't because it's easier to just be pithy and sad and seeming concerned when we're not really.

And by we I mean everyone, everywhere, needs to sit up and dig deeper into these sorts of things.