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Author Topic: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)(currently closed)  (Read 3486 times)

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Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)(currently closed)
« on: April 15, 2014, 02:15:18 PM »
It's been some time since I've done just about anything game related, and I plan on remedying that. The concept is pretty simple, monstrous player characters with gestalt to alleviate some of the burden of picking level adjusted races. The rules however are less simple.

Level adjustment: I've seen many ways of dealing with level adjustment in a gestalt game, but I think I've come up with a way that is more balanced. One level of gestalt is more powerful than one level of a normal class, but not as strong as two levels, so for level adjustments I will just split the difference. To find your new level adjustment in this game, take 3/4 of your total level adjustment and round down.

Multiclassing: I like multiclassing, I like to see players multiclass. I feel it makes for more interesting and unique characters, even in gestalt. I does get a little tricky multiclassing in gestalt though. The best way to think of it is having two sides, a left and a right. If you were to take a level of Fighter/Rogue then Wizard/Barbarian you would still only have +1 base attack. That is because if you add the base attack up from the left side, One level fighter, one level wizard, that is 1.5 Base attack, and the other side, one level rouge, one level barbarian, that side's total is 1.75 base attack and both would round down to one.

Prestige Classes: In gestalt, only one prestige class and be taken per level. You can't take 5 levels of Fighter/Rogue then take Blackgaurd/Assasssin. Also to qualify for a prestige class all the requirements have to be met on the same side you take it. No taking 4 levels of Rogue/Sorcerer then moving into something like Arcane trickster. The same is true for qualifying for feats like Daring Outlaw, and Swift Hunter.

Skills: This has less to do with gestalt, and more to do with how pathfinder did skills better. It's an easy enough rule to work back into 3.5. No x4 skills at first level. Class skills get a +3. Skill requirements are lowered by 3. Jump/Balance/Tumble are now Acrobatics, Hide/Move Silently are now Stealth, Spot/Listen are now Perception. And Open Lock is included in Disable Device.

Books: Everything from 3.5, (and maybe a little 3E) is on the table. However I will be pretty upset if everyone decides to use Warblade.

Right now I don't have much in the way of story. Really I have no idea what these rules will throw at me in the way of characters. Obviously if I get nothing but a pack of demons they aren't going to be keen on a holy quests of good and righteousness. That is why on top of a character sheet I want a list of goals and aspirations. It's always nice to have an idea of what motivates the PCs.

Anyway the specifics for character creation are, level 10 gestalt, 42 point buy, Free masterwork mundane items, but no gold, must be humanoid.

I'm thinking I want to keep this small, 3-4 players. Slots are not handed first come first served
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:21:01 PM by ulthakptah »

Offline Anon315

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 02:57:01 PM »
When you say "humanoid", do you mean strictly humanoid, or does monstrous humanoid work? Or are you talking general body shape?

Bit confused. (Personal plan: centaur)

Offline Thorne

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 03:02:17 PM »
.. Werewolf? >.>

I'm familiar with gestalt, 3.5e and Pathfinder - it's the math that will trip me.

Offline Andi

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 03:11:50 PM »
Haven't even touched 3.5e since Pathfinder came out, but I still have the assorted books. I may have an idea or two. Cautiously interested - also seeing where everyone else's ideas trend. Wouldn't be cool to be the only paladin in a horde of evil (or the only demon in Hell's Game of Thrones...)

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 03:28:56 PM »
When you say "humanoid", do you mean strictly humanoid, or does monstrous humanoid work? Or are you talking general body shape?

Bit confused. (Personal plan: centaur)
Monstrous humanoid does work and is encouraged. It's sort of the theme I was going for. However something like a Darkmantle is in no way humanoid and not allowed. And to use centaur as an example. It has a level adjustment of +2, 3/4 of 2 is 1.5, round down to level adjustment of +1, then 4 levels of Monstrous humanoid/some other class. Then you are free to do as you please.

.. Werewolf? >.>

I'm familiar with gestalt, 3.5e and Pathfinder - it's the math that will trip me.
Werewolves are also allowed. Though the template is actually Lycanthropy, as there are were-wolves/tigers/bears/rats/any animal that eats meat. On top of which there are also two types of Lycanthropy: natural and afflicted. The differences being natural is being born as a lycanthrope, and afflicted someone who has been turned into one by bite. Natural Lycanthropes have a level adjustment of +3, which 3/4 of 3 is 2.25 and rounds down to a +2 level adjustment. Afflicted Lycanthropes have a level adjustment of +2 which like the centaur above goes down to +1. On top of both there is also the animal hit dice you need to take. For a werewolf you need to take 2 levels of wolf/any other class.

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 05:54:18 PM »
I am interested to pick incubus (male version of succubus), so 6 HD as outsider + 3 LA (halved from +6 LA). So have 1 level in that side and ten levels in other side of gestalt right?

Like; outsider 6/+3 LA/class A1|class B10?

Offline Anon315

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 06:24:44 PM »
I am interested to pick incubus (male version of succubus), so 6 HD as outsider + 3 LA (halved from +6 LA). So have 1 level in that side and ten levels in other side of gestalt right?

Like; outsider 6/+3 LA/class A1|class B10?

As I read it, first off it's 3/4 LA not halved (round down) which would be 4, but also that it takes up both sides of those levels. So it would be 4 LA, Outsider 6 / B 6. Still doable. But kinda rough unless I'm somehow mistaken.

Offline Anon315

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 06:28:29 PM »
Well yeah, that's why I thought he was doing the 3/4 thing. Agreed, clarification please. If so, I have to rework... well, one level.

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 07:09:48 PM »
Anon is right.

Offline Metro Mech

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 07:23:19 PM »
Aw sad all of the good rps get taken

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 07:41:18 PM »
To further clarify. I don't feel that the way I have picked gimps players who take level adjusted races. The succubus for example has a level adjustment of +6 and 6 outsider hit dice. That means that in order to play a succubus in a normal game you would need to be a 12th level character, and would have no class levels. Under my rules in this gestalt A succubus character could be had at 10th level, and could have the abilities of 6 levels of classes. Sure you are shorter 4 hit dice if you had not picked a level adjusted race, but that's the price you pay for all the succubus abilities.

Zaer, I'm guessing you are just using the succubus from the monster manual, but having your true form be male. Or is there some pink incubus in some book I don't know about. Side note, there is a incubus monster in Dragon Magazine Issue #353. However it doesn't seem like what you are aiming for.

Aw sad all of the good rps get taken
Pretty sure I said I'm not giving out slots first come first served. On top of that. I don't consider anyone fully interested until I see character sheet from them.

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 01:01:28 AM »
Zaer, I'm guessing you are just using the succubus from the monster manual, but having your true form be male. Or is there some pink incubus in some book I don't know about. Side note, there is a incubus monster in Dragon Magazine Issue #353. However it doesn't seem like what you are aiming for.

Yeah, MM succubus but male instead. But I am curious of the actual published incubus stats from dragon magazine. How it differs from standard succubi?

Offline Metro Mech

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 01:14:40 AM »
Hmm what to be...?

Offline Yandros

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 01:21:56 AM »
I am certainly interested in this!  Will have to go look through the rules again, to brush up on 3.5 of course.  But I am looking at a Rakshasa.

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2014, 01:28:42 AM »
Yeah, MM succubus but male instead. But I am curious of the actual published incubus stats from dragon magazine. How it differs from standard succubi?
Well 4 hit dice, it didn't give a level adjustment, but from how things work out it would have a +4 level adjustment, no fly, 6 less natural armor than a succubus, No ethereal jaunt, suggestion, or greater teleport. The kiss does wisdom damage instead of negative levels, but it does get +2d6 sneak attack.

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 01:36:36 AM »
Hmmm, I stick with standard succubus stats but just make male one (which is incubus then).

Now then, six class levels.....have some ideas;

Warlock 6
Sorcerer 6
Favored Soul 6
Bard 6
Hexblade 6

Or if go more goody side; paladin 5/pious templar 1.

Kind of depends what others will roll.

Offline Anon315

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2014, 01:40:46 AM »
Working on a big ol pile of tanky Centaur here. Warblade and Ardent

Offline Thorne

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2014, 01:43:38 AM »
I was thinking to go with barbarian for class levels - maybe throw in some rogue or druid for wackiness on the other side. Rogue would fit better, I think/
Good.. evil .. I figured I'd go with TN. Law of the Jungle, or so.

Afflicted - Werewolf Lord? That came up somewhere for the original concept, but I'll be damned if I can find the template now. *grump*

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2014, 01:58:38 AM »
I am certainly interested in this!  Will have to go look through the rules again, to brush up on 3.5 of course.  But I am looking at a Rakshasa.
Rakshasa, level adjustment 7, racial hit dice 7. With the rules of the game the level adjustment drops to 5. Problem is that means to get all the racial hit dices you still need a level 12 character. However it's special qualities are simple enough to figure out. Start out with just 5 levels of Rakshasa/something else. Take off 2 from the natural armor bonus, 2 from cha, and 2 from con. Also lower it down to spells like a 5th level sorcerer. Next level of Rakshasa gives 1 level of spellcasting, 1 natural armor, and +2 cha. The level after gives another level of spellcasting, the rest of the natural armor, and the +2 to con.

I was thinking to go with barbarian for class levels - maybe throw in some rogue or druid for wackiness on the other side. Rogue would fit better, I think/
Good.. evil .. I figured I'd go with TN. Law of the Jungle, or so.

Afflicted - Werewolf Lord? That came up somewhere for the original concept, but I'll be damned if I can find the template now. *grump*
Werewolf lord was just a premade character in the Lycanthrope section of the Monster Manual, which starts on page 170. It's just a natural werewolf with 10 levels of fighter. However as a shapechanger subtype you do have an easy way in to the godly five level prestige class Warshaper, which is on page 89 of Complete Warrior.

Offline Yandros

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2014, 02:10:30 AM »
Rakshasa, level adjustment 7, racial hit dice 7. With the rules of the game the level adjustment drops to 5. Problem is that means to get all the racial hit dices you still need a level 12 character. However it's special qualities are simple enough to figure out. Start out with just 5 levels of Rakshasa/something else. Take off 2 from the natural armor bonus, 2 from cha, and 2 from con. Also lower it down to spells like a 5th level sorcerer. Next level of Rakshasa gives 1 level of spellcasting, 1 natural armor, and +2 cha. The level after gives another level of spellcasting, the rest of the natural armor, and the +2 to con.

Blast, knew I was forgetting something.  Tells you how long it has been since I looked over the 3.5 rules!  I will find a nice race to fit my concept, even if it is not a full Rakshasa. 
I am looking at a caster/fighter gestalt of some sort, preferably arcane.  Though, I could easily go with cleric if the group is needing one.  As for a focus of spells, it would not be direct damage, but instead buffs the like.

Online Zaer Darkwail

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2014, 02:46:52 AM »
As I suggested earlier my incubus could be a favored soul and thus work as cleric of the group for heals and buffs.

But in canon lore demons despise deities, and in general are quite anti-divine entities. A 5 levels in some class and then taking level as Ur-Priest could work but other 'monsters' may have easier time to enter divine class than incubus does.

Offline Yandros

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2014, 02:51:22 AM »
As I suggested earlier my incubus could be a favored soul and thus work as cleric of the group for heals and buffs.

But in canon lore demons despise deities, and in general are quite anti-divine entities. A 5 levels in some class and then taking level as Ur-Priest could work but other 'monsters' may have easier time to enter divine class than incubus does.

Well, I can easily take a clerical role then.  No worries in the slightest.  I am looking through my books (had to actually blow dust off a couple!) at the moment, so still tossing around ideas in my noggin.

Offline BenedictWolfe

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2014, 04:20:19 AM »
A Werewolf Lord is a lycanthrope that uses the dire wolf as it's base animal. Its savage progression can be found on this page, along with the progressions of the werewolf and the base lycanthrope template.
To be a complete afflicted werewolf lord requires two levels of the lycanthrope progression and then all six levels of the werewolf lord progression.

Of course, it might just be easier to check the Lycanthropy entry in Monster Manual 3.5: The werewolf lord is the last part of the entry.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 07:00:15 AM by BenedictWolfe »

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2014, 12:04:25 PM »
A Werewolf Lord is a lycanthrope that uses the dire wolf as it's base animal. Its savage progression can be found on this page, along with the progressions of the werewolf and the base lycanthrope template.
To be a complete afflicted werewolf lord requires two levels of the lycanthrope progression and then all six levels of the werewolf lord progression.

Of course, it might just be easier to check the Lycanthropy entry in Monster Manual 3.5: The werewolf lord is the last part of the entry.
Ah, I missed the dire wolf part. Using dire wolf for Lycanthropy is actually a good idea. More strength, and a size larger while transformed means more damage. Normally the downside is you would have to take more levels of animal hit dice, which has 3/4 base attack, but with gestalt if you made the other side of your levels be something like ranger or fighter you get full base attack anyway.

Offline Savant of the Wastes

Re: Savage Species (3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2014, 12:31:39 PM »
This looks pretty nifty! I have a hankering to go for the classical savage species. Dragon. Or at least something part dragon. I think it'd be really quite fun. Do you think that would work out for you, ulthakptah? I'll have to go digging around my various books, see what's the best way of actually doing that.