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Author Topic: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A  (Read 2885 times)

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Offline RubySlippers

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2014, 09:48:44 PM »
I'm going with a Fighter and Rogue, Wisdom is a whopping 8 so cleric is out, who wants to be a Thief-Acrobat prestige class to focus on her strong points.

By the way with Weapon Finesse do you need to pick a weapon for it or can you use it with any applicable weapon?

Offline Ghostwheel

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2014, 09:55:02 PM »
You can use it with any Light weapon, or any weapon that says it's finessable (like rapiers).

Offline Foxy Oni

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2014, 09:57:31 PM »
I'm already terrified O.O

As all good people should be.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2014, 09:59:48 PM »
You can use it with any Light weapon, or any weapon that says it's finessable (like rapiers).

With a Dex of 20 its an important point she is best then relying on light weapons but she is still dangerous likely a Rapier since needs a hand free for acrobatics and the like in a fight.

I think the GM will okay the prestige class and I decided to stick to a pure Rogue base class.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 10:43:42 PM by RubySlippers »

Offline Xanatos

I would heartily disagree on a number of points; first, I believe that flavor is mutable. You can play the barbarian as a dumb fighter who runs in and just gets hit, or you can play them as a light-armored fighter who capitalizes on their raw emotions to force their enemies into submission. What we have from mechanics is "For X rounds, gain +Y to str/con". We can easily reflavor that instead of the ability to intensely focus on yourself, "exceeding your body's limit" so to speak and pushing yourself to the edge of what is humanly possible which is quite often-used trope in many fantasy novels and sometimes even in real life.

Second, there's nothing that says that barbarians can't be sneaky--nothing forces them to roar and charge into battle. In fact, they're more likely to be sneaky than the fighter, who wears heavy armor, being limited to medium armor which has a lower ACP, and there's nothing stopping them from investing in Hide/Move Silently. Sure, it'll be at a lower rate than a rogue, but they aren't really forced to be un-sneaky.

Just my two cents :-)

Well, you missed my main point, unfortunately. I was referring to Drow society, not the classes fluff. Drow value cunning and intelligence. While a Barbarian doesn't need to be stupid, a Barbarian's definition of fighting, is far above and away, not even close to how the Drow fight. Drow are physically weaker than just about all of their enemies, Ilithid aside. They need to rely on stealth, cunning, and their agility to survive. A Barbarian relies primarily on raw might - something a Drow rarely has.

Also, Drow are a civilized people, not a tribal based society. Barbarian's do not come from civilized societies. It is highly unlikely for a Barbarian too suddenly come about within Drow society. If a Matron mother saw a son whose tendencies were to fight so recklessly, she would almost certainly force him to change or just kill him without much thought on the matter. A reckless child, even a male, can bring disfavor, make enemies, or worse, bring doom down upon a house (Drizz't anyone?). All of that assumes the child even survived his brothers and sisters who are encouraged to kill their siblings (among other things).

Also of great importance, open brutality and conflict is often frowned upon in Drow society. The only Drow who can really get away with it, for any period of time, are Clerics. To openly attack or threaten one's enemies is seen as weak and or inviting disaster. Cunning wins favor and kills more enemies.

Drow survive on intelligent fighting - not a Barbarian's style - no matter how you fluff it. If you try and change it to suit the Drow, you might as well just play a Fighter.

Offline Ghostwheel

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2014, 02:35:25 AM »
It sounds like you're talking about the barbarian fluff within drow society; but my point is that you can change the fluff, and easily at that, to fit perfectly within drow society.

You could say the same thing about the fighter--or about any primarily martial class that gets medium/heavy armor.

As for the civilized/barbaric aspect... again, it's fluff. You could easily fluff the rage as intense emotion, and not necessarily anger. It could be a deep-welled passion to protect allies that allows you to bypass the limits of your body for a short time which fatigues you. Or alternatively, a state of intense focus where you push your body to the very limits, causing your muscles to strain to the point where they hurt themselves (which again, fatigues you).

Just because the name of the class is "barbarian" doesn't mean they need to be barbaric, reckless, or anything similar. You mentioned Drizz't--he was defiant and reckless, and not in any way a barbarian. Likewise, a barbarian can be entirely obedient (within the limits of CE Drow society, of course, where almost everyone is CE), and only unleash that hallowed state when fighting the enemies of his House.

Finally, there's nothing stopping a barbarian from investing in stealthy skills to be just as quiet as any other fighter in light or medium armor. In that, he's potentially no different from someone who's taken levels in the Fighter class.

You can change the fluff however you like, and have whatever style of barbarian you want as long as you follow the mechanical rules. You can change the flavor it to suit the Drow without repercussions, and play what you want as long as you're open to refluffing the way the class works, which is far from set in stone, and nothing "bad" will happen if you do it.

Offline Countdown0

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2014, 04:02:07 AM »
I'm mostly finished my character now. He's a Highborn Drow, grandson of the Matron Mother of Barrison Del'Armgo, and a Wizard who specializes in conjuration. I'm only missing starting gear and/or wealth. Everything else is pretty much set.

Offline Kdyami

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2014, 04:08:20 AM »
You want us to PM our characters or post them or what?

Offline indarkestknight

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2014, 04:44:53 AM »
(within the limits of CE Drow society, of course, where almost everyone is CE)

Vaguely off-topic and not actually relevant within the realm of the whole barbarian question being posed, but I will note that canonically, drow are most often neutral evil, even if Lolth is chaotic evil, though they lean more towards chaos (or more often towards chaos) than law, and chaotic evil drow are a not-insignificant minority.

Offline Blinkin

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2014, 05:04:42 AM »
I will only add that a drow isn't likely to WANT to protect his allies; he/she don't have them without the certain knowledge that said ally will stab them in the back at the first convenient opportunity. So, that passion to protect allies is a non-drow attitude all it's own. You don't get to the top, or the middle even, by feeling passionate about protecting anyone but yourself... Killing a cleric, if you can get away with it via subtle ways and creativity isn't beyond the range of the average drow... you just want to make sure that it's not one of your own. ;)

Again, barbarians tend to not think before running into a fight, and no matter how you change the fluff, it's till not a drow like view that would survive the house training, much less the academy. While ou're rushing in to skin everything in sight, everything else in sight has already planned out how to lure you into their trap and taking your skin home to hang on the wall.

The comment about fighter based upon the fact that they can wear heavy armor... is a null point since a fighter can wear any armor. You can see an elf in full plate, the only reason you haven't seen a drow in plate is no one's written it... but there's spells to make that silent, so...

Certainly play what you want, but don't discount, again, what is being suggested simply because you don't like it. It's all valid advice and suggestions, but no one is saying "Don't do it!"

Offline Foxy Oni

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2014, 06:24:35 AM »
Well, the 2E Menzoberranzan box set says that members of House Obladra are known for their "reckless battle rages." That's official fluff that sounds an awful lot like what barbarians do to me. And again...  Uthegentel. So I don't see any reason someone shouldn't play a barbarian because of the belief it's not how a drow would act when an official game supplement co-authored by Big Bob Salvatore himself gives multiple examples of characters who would most likely have been barbarians if it had been written for 3E instead of 2E.

Offline Blinkin

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2014, 07:23:31 AM »
So, it looks like several rogues in the game. Should be fun if we can get them all to work together and just walk through a game backstabbing everything with flanking. ;) The wizards and clerics can just sit back and relax.... until we get tired of them and gain up on them too. lol

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2014, 08:05:47 AM »
About barbarians Selvetarm is the Drow deity of blood lust and battle surely they have barbarians.

Offline sleepingferretTopic starter

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2014, 11:40:56 AM »
You want us to PM our characters or post them or what?

Please PM your initial concepts and character class(es) to me.  Again, as a reminder... final rule changes for character creation will be posted by tomorrow.  They won't be anything drastic, but as you notice I don't have starting equipment/gold rules, and some have been asking me to review a few things and allow them to use some material from what are currently listed as dis-allowed source-books.

But if for the most part none of this affects your character creation (aside from the starting equipment/gold bit), please feel free to proceed with your character creation.  Just submit any initial concepts and classes to me, so I can get things posted so the group has an idea of its composition.

I'm a strong believer in play what you like, so if an NPC here and there has to fill a few "vital" roles for combative purposes during surface raids and or what not, don't stress yourselves.

Offline sleepingferretTopic starter

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2014, 03:27:00 PM »
Please also have your completed character sheets submitted no later than April 4 or April 5th if possible so I and/or Ghostwheel if necessary and glance over them, just to check for game mechanic stuff.  Character concepts and roleplaying remain top priority but for any combat or dice rolling issues, we just want things to be fair for all involved.

Thanks for your time and your interest, and let's all have a good time.  As always if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Offline Muse

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2014, 03:48:26 PM »
 Hmm... 

Okay, I'll pitch a character concept soon.  His class will be Swashbuckler.  That should go well with the archetypal drow warrior.  :) 

Offline Blinkin

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2014, 05:02:12 PM »
wow, 3 roggues, 2 swashbucklers, a wizard and cleric... and a berserker posing as a civilized barbarian... quite a group.

Offline Countdown0

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2014, 05:25:12 PM »
wow, 3 roggues, 2 swashbucklers, a wizard and cleric... and a berserker posing as a civilized barbarian... quite a group.

And my Wizard can already cast invisibility. So, who wants their rogue to not have to use their hide skill to sneak about? :D

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2014, 05:54:24 PM »
Well we all know who is in charge. *Cleric*

The rest of us are just trash compared to her even if high born.

Offline Kdyami

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2014, 05:55:56 PM »
Do we have no regular fighters?

Offline Countdown0

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2014, 05:58:08 PM »
Well we all know who is in charge. *Cleric*

The rest of us are just trash compared to her even if high born.

Better make ourselves useful then. Don't give her a reason to think she'd be better off sacrificing you to Lolth, and you should be fine :P

Offline Muse

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2014, 06:08:06 PM »
Swashbucklers are a combat class with full base attack.  *shrugs* 

Offline sleepingferretTopic starter

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2014, 06:57:13 PM »
I'm going to state this openly to save myself and Ghostwheel some time.  Unless your online source(s) for class statistics and progression, is the same as the published book, the answer is no.

Brief variant references such as those that are listed in the Unearthed Arcana that change a thing or two here and there, are completely different (see the Character Creation Rules).  But full progression chart changes... automatic no.

EDIT: If for any reason you need official information from sourcebooks send me a PM.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 07:05:29 PM by sleepingferret »

Offline Kdyami

Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2014, 07:16:08 PM »
*goes and digs my books out of storage*  Just to be safe :)

Offline sleepingferretTopic starter

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Re: Drow Academy (D&D 3.5) - Please read for Q&A
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2014, 07:25:43 PM »
Reminder, we still have at least 3 master roles and if anyone desires to play the ..... well not so lovely Matron Mistress Triel Baerne, please see me for more information.  Current players or new interested parties, welcome to apply.