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Author Topic: Fred Phelps Is Dying  (Read 2430 times)

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Offline FlorenceTopic starter

Fred Phelps Is Dying
« on: March 16, 2014, 09:53:03 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/16/fred-phelps-dying-death-westboro-baptist_n_4974584.html

I... have to admit, my opinions on this matter may not be the most 'respectful'. As much as I understand this man is a human being (technically, at least, until scientists prove otherwise), and he has family and loved ones and he is dying. But when you do nothing but spew vitriolic, disgusting hate; disrespect dead soldiers and harass their families at their funerals... I can't really bring myself to feel any compassion for this disgusting man and the equally disgusting people he surrounded himself with. I feel the worst will only be better for his passing, and that apart from perhaps his personal friends and family, no one will truly mourn his death.

I really can feel nothing but joy at the knowledge that there will be one less hate mongering bigot in the world after this man's death and that SOMEHOW, gay people managed to not murder him long enough for him to die naturally; so at least he won't become a martyr for his cause. Maybe I'm heartless but I'm just really unable to feel sorry for people who have harassed others while they themselves were mourning deaths of loved ones.

I would not advocate people picketing his funeral, as I sincerely believe that we need to prove we're better than them. That's a line I don't think we should cost, because its what really pushed them over the line from 'bigots' to 'disgusting monsters'. That said, if his funeral IS picketed, I admit, I'll probably laugh a little.

At any rate, E. I'd like to know what you think. Should we feel compassion in this man's final hours, perhaps mourning the life that could have been, rather than the one that was? Or is it okay in this instance to simply be glad that there will soon be a tiny bit less evil in the world?

Offline Blythe

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 10:03:33 PM »
Do I like the man? Definitely not. I certainly have never agreed with his views and have not agreed with his actions.

But he's passing on, and I have no need to hate him or be glad of his passing. Hate is what shaped this man's life into what it is now, and I don't think I want to sip the same emotional poison as he did. I gain nothing from hating him other than a sense of anger and irritability. I don't think I'll ever celebrate a death.

A human being, albeit one I do not personally like and whose viewpoints I find offensive, is dying, and I hope that he has a comfortable passing. I certainly won't be mourning his death, though. *shrug*

Offline Lux12

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 10:13:02 PM »
I cannot say that I am deeply sad to hear this news but I cannot say that I am joyous either. I'll admit I have nothing but harsh words about the man, but I do not feel right about expressing happiness because of this. I do not feel it. There is another sorrow for him that I feel that is not because of any sense of care for him, but rather because he died as a man who was still wrapped in his shroud of hate. A man who may pass before realizing that love is stronger than even the deepest rage. One who may pass before seeing that the Divine loves all of us, even him. I feel sad that he may pass before finally being able to transcend the abyss he has made for himself. I do pray that if he is to pass soon that he passes in some sort of peace. What awaits  him the world beyond I cannot say. Whether he is to further feel the sting of karma or be absolved and allowed to pass into paradise I cannot say. As much as I feel a deep seething rage against him, I feel this compassionate sorrow for him and even I could not bring myself to protest his funeral as his church has done to others. You do not have to fully forgive him, you do not have to love him, you do not have to silence your criticism, but I would implore others to look upon his life as a tragedy about a man swallowed by hate.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 10:24:05 PM by Lux12 »

Offline FlorenceTopic starter

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 10:19:12 PM »
I can understand and respect both of those opinions. Despite me being admittedly a bit happy we'll be without this man's hate soon, I do feel a little sad simply because he lived life this way, and ya know... just sort of wasted his entire life hating others. Its not that I mourn him, per-say, but I sort of mourn the 'him' that could have been had he chosen to do something different with his life.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 10:38:02 PM »
It's a little weird that the article talks about him being excommunicated from his own 'church'.  I wonder if he may have had a change of heart, now that he sees his own mortality looming.

Offline FlorenceTopic starter

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2014, 10:49:56 PM »
It's a little weird that the article talks about him being excommunicated from his own 'church'.  I wonder if he may have had a change of heart, now that he sees his own mortality looming.

Yes, I've been really curious about this, but I can find no clear information on what caused this.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2014, 11:00:48 PM »
I found this Facebook post by his son.


Offline Oniya

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2014, 11:04:12 PM »
*nods*  That's all I found as well.  They are also preventing any of his children and other relatives that were excommunicated from seeing him.

Much strangeness.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2014, 11:22:24 PM »
*nods*  That's all I found as well.  They are also preventing any of his children and other relatives that were excommunicated from seeing him.

Much strangeness.
Ditto. I can't find anything more specific about why it happened myself.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 12:48:14 AM »
It's a little weird that the article talks about him being excommunicated from his own 'church'.  I wonder if he may have had a change of heart, now that he sees his own mortality looming.

The theories most prominent is that this is a way to disavow his medical expenses by the church, that he let something slip within the confines of the church and/or this is a straight up power grab by his daughter as he starts to slip away.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 05:04:27 AM »
He made his bed, he can sleep in it.

Chances are, the guy believes that he's right and he's some kind of exiled saint, or a champion of christ who fought the good fight against his own repressed homosexual desires against homosexuals and those who were not afraid to enjoy life sinners despite overwhelming and inexplicable opposition. He'll probably die with a big self righteous grin on his face. The lights will go out, and then its over. No afterlife, no memories or consciousness. Nothing. (  This is how I personally believe death is. )

It might seem kind of unfair that someone like him gets to die in peace, but I really think that's how it's going to play out. Life is not particularly concerned with fairness, people are, life isn't.

The upside of this is there will be one less asshole in the world.
The down side is, his affliction (being an asshole) seems to be contagious.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 05:06:39 AM by TaintedAndDelish »

Offline Lux12

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 08:47:40 AM »
He made his bed, he can sleep in it.

Chances are, the guy believes that he's right and he's some kind of exiled saint, or a champion of christ who fought the good fight against his own repressed homosexual desires against homosexuals and those who were not afraid to enjoy life sinners despite overwhelming and inexplicable opposition. He'll probably die with a big self righteous grin on his face. The lights will go out, and then its over. No afterlife, no memories or consciousness. Nothing. (  This is how I personally believe death is. )

It might seem kind of unfair that someone like him gets to die in peace, but I really think that's how it's going to play out. Life is not particularly concerned with fairness, people are, life isn't.

The upside of this is there will be one less asshole in the world.
The down side is, his affliction (being an asshole) seems to be contagious.

A fair number of us would beg to differ about the death part.  It seems illogical from a mundane science and a spiritually based point of view. TThere is no such nothing as total nothingness in nature. Personally I believe he will have a flash of clarity as he passes from the world of flesh to the world beyond and in that moment, he may feel remorse.

This being said I don't criticize you for feeling such disdain.  As for whether he was repressed or not, I suspect that will come out (no pun intended) once his soul has taken flight of this world. When people are dying, things are seldom as we imagine though, so who knows what he may say or what may happen. There's a lot you learn when someone you love passes on. Not just in a spiritual sense. You learn a bit about how people experience this phase of life. In some ways, when people are at the door of death, there's something different in them. I don't have any love for Phelps but his mind might be in a very different state than it was. Its hard to know what a person who is dying is thinking. I hope he does develop some sense of remorse before he passes on however rare the chance of such an occurrence may be.

Sorry if I sound a bit preachy, just offering my own perspective.

Offline Nicholas

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 09:35:23 AM »
Do I like the man? Definitely not. I certainly have never agreed with his views and have not agreed with his actions.

But he's passing on, and I have no need to hate him or be glad of his passing. Hate is what shaped this man's life into what it is now, and I don't think I want to sip the same emotional poison as he did. I gain nothing from hating him other than a sense of anger and irritability. I don't think I'll ever celebrate a death.

A human being, albeit one I do not personally like and whose viewpoints I find offensive, is dying, and I hope that he has a comfortable passing. I certainly won't be mourning his death, though. *shrug*
This mirrors my thoughts, pretty much. While I never liked this man, his death is a tragedy, like the death on any other person.

There is a rather fitting saying from where I am living at:

"In death we are all the same."

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 10:06:44 AM »
I say we go picket and protest at his funeral.

In all seriousness, my thoughts are summed up nicely by Blythe.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 10:07:54 AM by Silverfyre »

Offline Healergirl

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2014, 04:13:00 PM »
I am completely unsurprised that he has been excommunicated by the church he was the head of.

Accounts from family members  who bailed out of the movement seem to support the view that the man was deeply and sincerely hated by everyone including his fellow church members, that he drove them, not led them.

HG

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2014, 04:15:33 PM »
Does that imply that the WBC might indeed collapse as a hate-group without him at the helm?  (fingers crossed!)  Or are there some still in the second generation who are just as entrenched as he was?

Offline Healergirl

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2014, 04:28:53 PM »
Oniya,

I would love to think that the WBC will collapse withut him.  I suspect that those who immediately follow him will be just as poisonous as he, however.  But I don't think the WBC wil be the same, Fred Phelps made sure that he was the Public face of the group, many of the media contacts were his personal contacts.

But it does seem to be a nest of hateful vipers, we can hope that they will quickly and messily self-destruct.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 06:25:04 PM »
I think we would all like WBC to disappear, but it is unlikely.  Even if the church does collapse, the family may try to monetize their 'infamy' by trying for a Kardashian or Duck Dynasty-style show portraying their lives.

Offline Healergirl

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 07:17:04 PM »
Valthazar,

I want so much to believe that such a thing could not happen....

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 07:33:09 PM »
Chances of that happening are next to zero. No media company with a brain at the helm would touch that "church/family". They would not bring ratings or money to whoever tried to air such a show.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 08:12:38 PM »
Chances of that happening are next to zero. No media company with a brain at the helm would touch that "church/family". They would not bring ratings or money to whoever tried to air such a show.

Two words for you:

Train wreck.

You'd get people who would watch it out of the same sort of morbid fascination that drives those other reality shows.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 09:04:02 PM »
Two words for you:

Train wreck.

You'd get people who would watch it out of the same sort of morbid fascination that drives those other reality shows.

I can see it going either way. Either it becomes a surprise hit with the public out of that morbid sense of fascination you're talking about or people would be so damn ticked they would drop it in a heart beat rather than risk the consequences.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 09:59:06 PM »
I can see it going either way. Either it becomes a surprise hit with the public out of that morbid sense of fascination you're talking about or people would be so damn ticked they would drop it in a heart beat rather than risk the consequences.

People would watch it to make fun of them, and articles would be written mocking WBC - all of which would generate revenue.  Someone even started a thread a while ago posting a video of WBC being interviewed by Russell Brand, and we all laughed at their idiocy.

Especially in this day and age, anything goes online.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 10:34:00 PM »
Pfeh.  Hasn't changed since Henley wrote the line 'We all know that crap is king.'

Offline Lux12

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Re: Fred Phelps Is Dying
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 10:48:35 PM »
People would watch it to make fun of them, and articles would be written mocking WBC - all of which would generate revenue.  Someone even started a thread a while ago posting a video of WBC being interviewed by Russell Brand, and we all laughed at their idiocy.

Especially in this day and age, anything goes online.

Yes but the WBC is so universally hated it's hard to imagine that show would last one episode. I mean there are hardcore homophobes who don't like them.