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Author Topic: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles  (Read 2228 times)

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Offline Vorian

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 03:40:27 PM »
I'm sensing a little prejudice against Ant-Man and giving Ultron way too much props for the movie version of him which nobody yet knows the extent of. The latest version of Giant Man doesn't seem to have much of a problem with holding his size (the Ultimate version, which is what a lot of the MCU are drawing from) so to just discount him so quickly seems like just hot air. No offense but I think he deserves a little more credit than that, especially as part of a team ganging up on Ulty.

Possibly, but the bottom line is unless size, specifically, is needed others do strength better and have better defenses as well. Ultimate Giant Man is a bad example ... he only ever won two fights as Giant Man, one illegally using his powers against a handful of street thugs and one against the Blob of all people after completely exceeding his usual limits. Even Cap had little trouble taking him down in the Ultimate universe ... so if I'm a bit prejudiced against him, that's actually the main reason why. What I've seen of the original doesn't really improve my estimation of his capabilities though.

As for Ultron, I might be giving him a bit too much credit but if he can't at least top what Iron Man can do he won't be much of a villain for the Avengers.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 03:43:47 PM »
Sorry, Mathim.  I'll stop now.

And I agree with Nova being used as a 'The Guardians of The Galaxy' primer, so to speak.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 05:13:17 PM »
Possibly, but the bottom line is unless size, specifically, is needed others do strength better and have better defenses as well. Ultimate Giant Man is a bad example ... he only ever won two fights as Giant Man, one illegally using his powers against a handful of street thugs and one against the Blob of all people after completely exceeding his usual limits. Even Cap had little trouble taking him down in the Ultimate universe ... so if I'm a bit prejudiced against him, that's actually the main reason why. What I've seen of the original doesn't really improve my estimation of his capabilities though.

As for Ultron, I might be giving him a bit too much credit but if he can't at least top what Iron Man can do he won't be much of a villain for the Avengers.

That I get but you really think the film version of Ant-Man is going to suck that badly (especially if it's Scott Lang rather than Hank Pym)? He's got way more potential than all that and to make sense as a film's main subject he's going to have to rock. As for Ultron, I'm not sure if he will be able to top Iron Man since if he consists of Tony Stark's machinations, most of which were destroyed (thank you, Shane Black, you bastard, you); unless Tony got back to work right away and the materials and facilities are available to Ultron, I don't know what kind of threat he can really pose.

Sorry, Mathim.  I'll stop now.

And I agree with Nova being used as a 'The Guardians of The Galaxy' primer, so to speak.

It's just that after being forced by a friend to sit through that two-plus hour vampire movie and have nothing but that exact critique about predatory pretty boys and women completely missing the point to shout at the screen the entire time, I can't stand to think about it anymore. Let's just agree society is both hypocritical and horrendously dishonest about standards.

And thanks for the agreement, I started to brainstorm a "The Man Called Nova" script shortly after I heard about Guardians having the Nova Corps in it. Would have set it apart from the way Green Lantern handled it if I had my way with the screenplay, let me tell you. The second that Richard Rider donned the Nova armor from the dead Rhomann Dey, the alien baddie that killed him would come in to finish off the Nova for good, and force Rider to kick it into high gear and defeat him using his newfound power in an unconventional way. But he'd be forced to vacate Earth right away because as a dying act, the villain would have caused a meteor to be pulled into Earth's path. Nova would have to overtax his armor to the breaking point to stop it and would be on the verge of losing all life support function, floating in space, until some of the others came along and collected him and started to integrate him into the Nova Corps. From there, the sky's the limit as far as what other characters make an appearance. What a wasted opportunity for a hero that's pretty damn cool in his own right.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 05:22:13 PM by Mathim »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2014, 11:15:46 PM »
That I get but you really think the film version of Ant-Man is going to suck that badly (especially if it's Scott Lang rather than Hank Pym)? He's got way more potential than all that and to make sense as a film's main subject he's going to have to rock.

The main reason to use Scott Lang and not Hank Pym, I'm thinking is two fold.  Pym's entire career as both a scientist and a superhero is a litany of failure.  Nothing he's ever done has ever gone well for him.  Not to mention the wife beater taint, which is something no one wants to use in this political climate.  Scott Lang's story was about saving his daughter, and for all his minor appearances, he never screwed up as badly as Pym.  Or at least, as bad as Pym believes.

So it's better to use a character that's not going to have any baggage that Marvel fans (whom are going to go see the Ant-Man film, and likely bring non-Marvel fans, and so will do a lot of discussing of characters in the process) have, especially as bad as Henry 'Hank' Pym has.

Which, as a side note, I find incredibly sad.  A minor character does it once, and the leader of the Fantastic Four has been beating his own wife for longer and gets a pass.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 02:16:23 PM »
The main reason to use Scott Lang and not Hank Pym, I'm thinking is two fold.  Pym's entire career as both a scientist and a superhero is a litany of failure.  Nothing he's ever done has ever gone well for him.  Not to mention the wife beater taint, which is something no one wants to use in this political climate.  Scott Lang's story was about saving his daughter, and for all his minor appearances, he never screwed up as badly as Pym.  Or at least, as bad as Pym believes.

So it's better to use a character that's not going to have any baggage that Marvel fans (whom are going to go see the Ant-Man film, and likely bring non-Marvel fans, and so will do a lot of discussing of characters in the process) have, especially as bad as Henry 'Hank' Pym has.

Which, as a side note, I find incredibly sad.  A minor character does it once, and the leader of the Fantastic Four has been beating his own wife for longer and gets a pass.

Among other examples. Yes, we've discussed to death the hypocrisy of the situation. Pym's failures don't have to taint the Marvel Cinematic Universe version any more than Tony Stark's hilarious (and deadly) initial failures to get his Iron Man Mark II armor working properly should have to taint his successes. I don't necessarily think it's the worst idea to use Lang over Pym, but the awkwardness of Lang being the one to potentially be with Janet Van Dyne/Wasp is unsettling, even more than the idea of seeing Pym strike her on-screen. Maybe I'm weird but some things can change without it being a big deal and others are just big-time dealbreakers when it comes to film adaptations.

Offline alextaylor

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2014, 02:21:15 PM »
I have never picked up a comic book in my life, so like Aiden I have no idea if they filmmakers are following story canon or not, but I am a fan of the Marvel films that have been released so far. Having seen the GOTG trailer, I'm curious as to the marketing strategy for this film. Because to the casual, non-comic fan, this seems to be marketed as a comedy which is quite a departure from the other Marvel films.

Marvel Cinematic Universe is a different world than the comic books. So you should be able to follow them without the books. They're canon in their own world and remain persistent from one movie to another.

I'm really impressed with how Marvel Studios hit the movie world so hard. They've really produced some of the best superhero films out there and in a very short period of time.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2014, 03:07:37 PM »
Marvel Cinematic Universe is a different world than the comic books. So you should be able to follow them without the books. They're canon in their own world and remain persistent from one movie to another.

I'm really impressed with how Marvel Studios hit the movie world so hard. They've really produced some of the best superhero films out there and in a very short period of time.

Well, I don't know about them being completely persistent, there's certain continuity things that kind of raise a few questions (particularly concerning Ant-Man's existence never being mentioned before despite Hank Pym now being in his autumn years despite his accomplishments that surely would be notable in SHIELD's files).

But you're right, their track record is seriously impressive thus far. I would have hoped that would be sufficient momentum for these gambles they're rolling the dice on but after Iron Man 3, I am worried there's going to be some alienation of fans that can damage their box office numbers if things don't go JUST right.

Still, it's high time they did roll out some new properties rather than just stringing sequels together like the two un-liked Iron Man sequels. I'm hoping to see Doctor Strange follow Ant-Man, and possibly even a Sub-Mariner movie at some point during Phase 3.

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2014, 03:10:02 PM »
Oh man if they made a dr strange movie in that sort of  psychadelic sorcery with a dash of lovecraft and space opera thrown in that the comic used to be I can't even tell you how happy I would be!

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2014, 03:46:44 PM »
Oh man if they made a dr strange movie in that sort of  psychadelic sorcery with a dash of lovecraft and space opera thrown in that the comic used to be I can't even tell you how happy I would be!

Amen, brother! I'm thinking Luke Evans as the doc, Rufus Sewell as Baron Mordo, but I can't figure out who'd play a good Wong. Even a shaved-head Jet Li isn't seeming like it would be the best choice (even though he's always the first to come to mind!)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2014, 09:12:14 AM »
They shoulda done the Starjammers. They could go searching for Cyclops after he vanished from the x-men movies. :P

Unfortunately, Marvel doesn't have the movie rights to any of the men ;(. Or Spider-Man. Or a few others.

As the other studios lapse on the terms of their contracts for release or whatever else lets them keep the licenses that night change but given the broad money making Goliath that is the Marvel Movieverse, I don't see the X-franchise or Spidermn lying fallow long enough to revert back.

Offline Sasquatch421

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2014, 11:16:51 AM »
Unfortunately, Marvel doesn't have the movie rights to any of the men ;(. Or Spider-Man. Or a few others.

As the other studios lapse on the terms of their contracts for release or whatever else lets them keep the licenses that night change but given the broad money making Goliath that is the Marvel Movieverse, I don't see the X-franchise or Spidermn lying fallow long enough to revert back.

If I remember right it's either 3 or 4 years... Fox won't let X-Men or Spidey lapse so the only way would be for Marvel to buy the rights back I believe. I think they still have the FF rights as well.... The Punisher rights reverted back from Lionsgate since it's been how long since Warzone came out...

Still I want an Inhuman's movie... I love the characters and Lockjaw on the big screen? If it could be done I wouldn't mind Fox trying a movie on Apocalypse either. No wait screw that Joss could probably do En Sabah Nur right, but I don't really trust to many others...

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2014, 12:13:27 PM »
I'd fan girl so hard for a movie based off the graphic novel Inhumans. I love that story. Of course since so much of it is internal dialogue it might be hard to produce in that medium. Also having a leading man who can never talk could be a problem.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2014, 12:32:43 PM »
I'd fan girl so hard for a movie based off the graphic novel Inhumans. I love that story. Of course since so much of it is internal dialogue it might be hard to produce in that medium. Also having a leading man who can never talk could be a problem.

Voiceovers? It apparently worked out in Warm Bodies.

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2014, 12:40:07 PM »
Voice overs always come off as clumsy to me. I guess it's a option.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2014, 01:30:02 PM »
All I can say is, the eventual Deadpool movie better have a voiceover for his internal monologues.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2014, 02:50:53 PM »
I'd fan girl so hard for a movie based off the graphic novel Inhumans. I love that story. Of course since so much of it is internal dialogue it might be hard to produce in that medium. Also having a leading man who can never talk could be a problem.

From what I understand, Marvel Studios does have the rights to Inhumans (I could be wrong) and that it was a definite possibility for a future MCU entry. I don't know anything about them though so I can't yet express any enthusiasm in their direction, at least not over a few other choice entries (Doctor Strange, Black Panther, and others). Having a character who can't talk might make a good narrator since it'll all be sort of the 'all in my head' kind of talking that Garfield the Cat does.

Things like Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Punisher and I think one other property have reverted to Marvel Studios but none of them are up for a remake/MCU continuity entry yet. Since the Avengers are branching out so far as to be facing threats from beyond the atmosphere of Earth, the only one of them that makes any sense to add to their ranks of those three is Ghost Rider since that adds the same kind of mystic vibe that Doctor Strange would. DD and Punisher would probably have to do a team-up movie to be remotely interesting at this point since they're both essentially ordinary humans (I don't imagine DD doing many things that Black Widow can't or hasn't already done).

Just saw a new video clip of CA: The Winter Soldier.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Apparently Batroc the Leaper isn't going to be as major of a villain as I thought; more of a terrorist but probably not as formidable an opponent as in the comics.
But I'm jonesing for the movie to come out already so I can see what sort of post-credits goodies they give as far as hints for anything else that might be coming along. Thor the Dark World already gave us a glimpse of Guardians so maybe Cap will have something about Ant-Man? That'd be better than waiting for the Avengers 2 to see anything about Ant-Man.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2014, 04:21:26 PM »
Eh, I don't recall the comic book version of the Scarlet Witch having anything to do with Ultron's origin.  Perhaps you're thinking of Wasp, who Ultron has always been obsessed with in the comics thanks to his brainwaves being patterned after Pym's.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2014, 04:35:25 PM »
I think she just has the most suitable power for killing him, not anything to do with creating him.

It's looking like Evangeline Lilly is going to be Wasp...anyone agree or disagree with this decision? I'm already hesitant to accept Paul Rudd for Ant-Man as it is, so I guess it works since I find her a questionable choice too based on her age and his. Just woulda hoped for a younger, hotter couple for the Ant-Man/Wasp team.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 04:37:07 PM by Mathim »

Offline Vorian

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2014, 04:49:52 PM »
Eh, I don't recall the comic book version of the Scarlet Witch having anything to do with Ultron's origin.  Perhaps you're thinking of Wasp, who Ultron has always been obsessed with in the comics thanks to his brainwaves being patterned after Pym's.

Nope, I'm thinking of her ties to Vision, and her defeat of Ultron after he started using Adamantium. Granted, not his origin, but in my opinion a more important set of connections to the Avengers than who made him, and less transferable.

I know the difference between Scarlet Witch and Wasp  :-\

Offline LunarSage

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2014, 04:54:13 PM »
I don't recall Wanda defeating Ultron... I do recall Wasp shrinking down and destroying him from the inside on one occasion though.  Then again, I didn't read a whole lot of Avengers back in the day.  X-Men was my major thing from about 1985 on.

I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know the difference... no worries.  :-)

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2014, 04:56:56 PM »
Nope, I'm thinking of her ties to Vision, and her defeat of Ultron after he started using Adamantium. Granted, not his origin, but in my opinion a more important set of connections to the Avengers than who made him, and less transferable.

I know the difference between Scarlet Witch and Wasp  :-\

Adamantium, eh? Even more connections to the X-Men universe...really not sure how that's going to work out for Fox and Marvel Studios now. Can one of them claim sole property rights for that? I mean, they only called Cap's shield material Vibranium (it's supposedly an alloy of both Vibranium and Adamantium), so is that an early sign that because X-Men already used Adamantium that it can't be used in both franchises? Assuming, of course, that Ultron is capable of creating a virtually unstoppable body. I wonder if that would involve invading Wakanda during the events of Age of Ultron since that's supposedly the only other place to get the material Howard Stark said was supposed to have been all used up in making Cap's shield. That would be a great starting point for a Black Panther cameo to get a full-length movie going.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2014, 05:05:50 PM »
Adamantium is not a decidedly X-Men thing.  It's been used in various Marvel titles for decades.  Even Doc Ock had Adamantium tentacles at one point. 

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2014, 05:23:05 PM »
I'm talking strictly the movie rights, I'm aware that it's more widespread than that. They just make such a huge deal out of it in the X-Men film universe and it's yet to be mentioned in the MCU in favor of the Vibranium material to which they are ascribing characteristics more in line with Adamantium than with Vibranium as it appears in comics. So I was concerned that Fox was now monopolizing Adamantium and leaving Marvel Studios stuck only with their broken version of Vibranium. But at least the effect of Thor's hammer hitting Cap's shield was totally bitchin'. I was a little disappointed nothing else came of that discovery during the latter part of the film but I remain convinced it will happen in Age of Ultron or possibly in A3.

I'm totally pulling for the MCU version of the Secret Wars for Avengers 4.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 05:24:32 PM by Mathim »

Offline RedPhoenix

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2014, 05:24:38 PM »
I think they'd have to have that as a particular part of a deal or something because Lunar is right its not like having rights to X-men automatically includes adamantium. Or maybe Marvel just figures they don't necessarily need it and why risk the lawsuit. You can always come up with some other gibberishium and there are enough of those in the marvel universe.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Marvel Films' 3 Upcoming Big Gambles
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2014, 06:29:59 PM »
Adamantium is not a decidedly X-Men thing.  It's been used in various Marvel titles for decades.  Even Doc Ock had Adamantium tentacles at one point.
Mathim is right.  Adamantium is legally owned by Fox at the moment.  Which is why they had to change Vibranium from a sonic absorption only material, to one that absorbs all vibrations (which no one seems to realize would mean the shield would never bounce.)