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Author Topic: Tweets from Sochi  (Read 2276 times)

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Online Oniya

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2014, 01:44:34 AM »
Not according to the Executive Committee (at least, not since 1951).

Offline JackWhite

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2014, 02:00:51 AM »
But before 1951 it was.

Offline DTW

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2014, 03:22:55 AM »
Welcome to Russia. If you learn one thing  from  History ,  it's never come here. Seriously don't come here. Really? You don't trust me? You think it looks so cool on the TV? Go ask Napoleon or  Hitler or  Charles XII of Sweden.


I'm just saying maybe holding the Olympics in a country so...unejoyable that the Wehrmacht left wasn't the best idea the Committee could've come up with.



Offline kylie

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2014, 04:59:10 AM »
Quote from: DTW

I'm just saying maybe holding the Olympics in a country so...unejoyable that the Wehrmacht left wasn't the best idea the Committee could've come up with.

       Talk about tasteless jokes.  They didn't bring winter clothes, their strategic orders kept sending them up and down the map, they massacred the Ukrainians who wanted to support them initially on the way in, and they got kicked the fuck out.  To say they simply up and "left" is beyond ridiculous.

       Sure they left most of Europe -- when they were forced to.  But are you really trying to say that the only good people are the ones the Nazis wanted to celebrate having most, or maybe the ones who were more complicit or less visibly opposed by and large to Nazi leadership?  Cause that's pretty much what it comes across as. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 05:05:46 AM by kylie »

Offline DTW

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2014, 05:16:50 AM »
       Talk about tasteless jokes.  They didn't bring winter clothes, their strategic orders kept sending them up and down the map, they massacred the Ukrainians who wanted to support them initially on the way in, and they got kicked the fuck out.  To say they simply up and "left" is beyond ridiculous.

       Sure they left most of Europe -- when they were forced to.  But are you really trying to say that the only good people are the ones the Nazis wanted to celebrate having most, or maybe the ones who were more complicit or less visibly opposed by and large to Nazi leadership?  Cause that's pretty much what it comes across as.


No what I'm saying is Russia  has a terrible history . See: Their Human Rights Record , Their Gay Rights Record ,  The Katyn  Massacre ,  Bykivnia , Kurapaty , Butovo...Do you want me to keep going?

No I'm not saying the only good people are the ones the Nazis wanted to hold but I'm also not going to pretend Russia and Specifically Stalin's Russia were cool. They weren't. I don't know how to say without seeming like a douche but Russia is a bad country that's gotten better since the fall of communism but is still a bad country.

They're not  France. They're not Sweden. Both places the Winter Olympics could've been held. Instead the were held in a country that history has told us is not a nice place to visit.





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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2014, 06:48:05 AM »
Minard's map might have been a good example without invoking the Wehrmacht.

Offline kylie

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2014, 07:49:09 AM »
         Yeah, the political leadership is chilly at best and ugly at worst.  But that has little direct relationship with numbers of people lost invading the place.  Yugoslavia and South Korea both have been hosts; try correlating that with effectiveness of military defense historically, and again with perceived openness and democratic measures (hint: South Korea is not exactly a democratic paradise when you look closely, even if it's nothing like the North).

          And it doesn't necessarily follow that political leadership being crude and suppressive to their own people, makes for a bad place to visit for the experience and cultural exchange.  Whether you think that helps the right people inside, is another question. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:50:13 AM by kylie »

Offline lovelylilT

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2014, 09:13:25 AM »
They're not  France. They're not Sweden. Both places the Winter Olympics could've been held. Instead the were held in a country that history has told us is not a nice place to visit.

How very insulting.  >:( Russia does nothing good, then?

Offline consortium11

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2014, 11:08:43 AM »
While I understand the point I think trying to compare organising a sporting/tourism event and well, warfare and invasions is always going to come across as pretty distasteful.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2014, 11:11:42 AM »
While I understand the point I think trying to compare organising a sporting/tourism event and well, warfare and invasions is always going to come across as pretty distasteful.

Yeah, the people on the front lines in the warfare are less emotionally invested.
[/terriblejoke]

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2014, 06:45:20 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26123444

Apparently the Bobsledders are having problems. Getting trapped in a bathroom, an elevator, and finding an open elevator shaft instead of an elevator. Having a bob sledder drop down a shaft could be a very very bad thing for the 'everything is okay' fable being pushed out by the Russians.

Offline Mistyy

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2014, 07:03:34 PM »
It's not really surprising that all the western media talks about are Russia's crimes but stay silent on the crimes that the British Empire has commited for example, didn't hear much about them when the olympics were in London. I remember my history books in high school that told about the Soviet Union. I think there wasn't a single positive thing said at any point, it was pure propaganda in my opinion, the whole country was painted as the manifestation of evil. I have really learned to change my ways of thinking and realized that propaganda isn't just one sided. I recently watched some of my grand father's old photos from the Soviet Union and there was this one with a lot of people on the other side of the road waving the Soviet flag and some people on the other side waving the national flag. I believe that this photo would have never made it into any western history book because it told that there were actually people that supported the Soviet Union. A lot of people in Russia think that people like Gorbachev were traitors who sold out their country. In my opinion, I am very glad that the games are in Russia.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:05:49 PM by Mistyy »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2014, 07:12:58 PM »
Uh....

You do realize that most of this thread is about how they blew 51 billion dollars over 7 years and still don't have all the hotels finished (and the ones that are finished have major issues) right?

Yes, we have issues with Russia's human rights violations but that isn't what this thread is about.  It's about how the media is telling the truth about the conditions in Sochi.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2014, 07:24:01 PM »
I think there wasn't a single positive thing said at any point, it was pure propaganda in my opinion, the whole country was painted as the manifestation of evil. I have really learned to change my ways of thinking and realized that propaganda isn't just one sided.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of propaganda surrounding these Olympic games, and a very political spin surrounding its presentation.  However, there is no denying that Russia has made a very weak presentation so far.  For the monetary investment that went into these games, I think we can agree that it was not efficiently used.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2014, 07:30:50 PM »
The only 'crimes' I've seen any media reporting on is how Russia was bulldozing homes and turning families out into the streets with pittances for compensation, to make space for the Olympic structures. 90% of the coverage is just how Russia  is embarrassing itself with its under-preparedness, which it absolutely deserves.

Offline IStateYourName

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2014, 09:53:47 PM »
Agreed...I don't have anything for or against Russia, but the part of Russia involving in Sochi screwed the pooch with their widespread lack of preparedness for these Olympics. 

Online ShadowFox89

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2014, 10:39:54 PM »
It's not really surprising that all the western media talks about are Russia's crimes but stay silent on the crimes that the British Empire has commited for example, didn't hear much about them when the olympics were in London. I remember my history books in high school that told about the Soviet Union. I think there wasn't a single positive thing said at any point, it was pure propaganda in my opinion, the whole country was painted as the manifestation of evil. I have really learned to change my ways of thinking and realized that propaganda isn't just one sided. I recently watched some of my grand father's old photos from the Soviet Union and there was this one with a lot of people on the other side of the road waving the Soviet flag and some people on the other side waving the national flag. I believe that this photo would have never made it into any western history book because it told that there were actually people that supported the Soviet Union. A lot of people in Russia think that people like Gorbachev were traitors who sold out their country. In my opinion, I am very glad that the games are in Russia.

 It isn't about the evils that any country may or may not have had. It's about the country's leader touting the Olympics as the most expensive ever, but basic things like tap water in hotels being absent. Or elevators missing. Or bobsledders needing to punch themselves out of walls. Or pictures of on duty police officers of that country drinking and smoking, rather than doing their jobs.

 It's about how much of a screwup this whole thing has been, and how it's been one thing after another with the Olympics. The fact that Putin has enacted laws that seem to be aimed just to anger other nations has nothing to do with it, but does add weight to the question of "what the fuck is going in?".

Offline Neysha

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2014, 10:42:48 PM »
There was coverage critical of the London Olympics.  Mostly about how inconvenienced Londoners were going to be by all of the restricted Olympic traffic and huge amounts of law enforcement and stationing SAM launchers on top of apartments. :D

Also... Russian Laundromats.



Or dirty luger feet...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 11:46:24 PM by Neysha »

Offline Mistyy

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2014, 08:21:32 AM »
Well it shouldn't really come as any kind of surprise that a lot of money has went somewhere it shouldn't but when they chose the host country they knew what they were getting into. Why I talked about the Russian history a bit is that it is where the conversation inevitably leads as the corruption is very deeply rooted in the country and isn't something that you can just fix in a few years. On the contrary I watched the Finnish evening news yesterday and some athletes(don't remember what sport) said that they had best accommodations they had ever had. But yes I never denied the problems, just trying to shed some light.

I believe that this same thing is going to happen in Rio, also a lot of thieving when people keep their phones in their back pockete etc, and this is going to come as 'surprise' again.

Anyways I don't really care for the olympics itself as most medals go the superpowers anyway because of large population, money, etc.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2014, 09:38:20 AM »
Well it shouldn't really come as any kind of surprise that a lot of money has went somewhere it shouldn't but when they chose the host country they knew what they were getting into. Why I talked about the Russian history a bit is that it is where the conversation inevitably leads as the corruption is very deeply rooted in the country and isn't something that you can just fix in a few years. On the contrary I watched the Finnish evening news yesterday and some athletes(don't remember what sport) said that they had best accommodations they had ever had. But yes I never denied the problems, just trying to shed some light.

I believe that this same thing is going to happen in Rio, also a lot of thieving when people keep their phones in their back pockete etc, and this is going to come as 'surprise' again.

Anyways I don't really care for the olympics itself as most medals go the superpowers anyway because of large population, money, etc.

 The thing is, Russia has had seven years to get the games area and hotels and stuff ready. That it isn't is a blow against the Russians. Sure they have most of the main things working, but the little details are showing that Sochi really wasn't ready for the games. no running water, having to put used toilet paper in a basket beside the toilets, locked or missing elevators, locked doors.. With a price tag of $51 billion, things like that should be working.

 You seem to think the superpower and the other First world nations do what? Buy their medals?  What does a large population have to do with the skill of the athlete?

Offline Kythia

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2014, 10:05:54 AM »
Large nations have a) more shots at the genetic lottery of producing someone who could be a skilled athlete b) a more developed infrastructure for spotting them and c)better facilities for training them.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2014, 10:26:21 AM »
Let's put the amounts in perspective Mistyy. Sochi is the most expensive Winter Games ever. Would have been if they have come in at the 12 Billion mark that President Putin originally claimed it would. At 51 Billion, it is at LEAST as expensive as the last 10 winter games, which I find more likely than some claims that it is more than ALL the winter games combined (which would go back to 1920).

Then there is the source of these funds. A large proportion of NORMAL Olympic construction comes from private investment whereas Sochi is largely from the Russian Government. There are just too many complaints for these to be 'isolated' incidents.

As for size/wealth versus medals.  Norway beats everyone in the Winter Olympics with the Soviet Union next, despite not being in them since 1988. 
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/02/winter-olympics-medal-count-sochi-all-time-facts/
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 10:31:50 AM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Valerian

Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2014, 10:30:38 AM »
You know, that's something I've wondered about before -- exactly how much of an advantage it is to an Olympic hopeful to have been born in one of the larger, more industrialized nations.  And I found this interesting chart just now: http://www.medalspercapita.com/

It lists medals per capita for each country, for all the modern Olympic games.  I'm not much good at statistics, though it seems like it's pretty easy for the results to be skewed -- that is, all it takes is one outlier from someplace like Grenada to put that country at number one for medals per capita at the London Olympics, for example -- but it's still interesting to look at.  The U.S. won 104 medals in total at the 2012 games, but that only puts them at 49th in those rankings.

Offline TorchTopic starter

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2014, 10:39:36 AM »
Anyways I don't really care for the olympics itself as most medals go the superpowers anyway because of large population, money, etc.

Yes, that would certainly explain all the track and field medals won by such largely populated superpowers as Jamaica, Grenada, US Virgin Islands and Kenya.  ::)

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Tweets from Sochi
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2014, 10:44:04 AM »
Yes, that would certainly explain all the track and field medals won by such largely populated superpowers as Jamaica, Grenada, US Virgin Islands and Kenya.  ::)

Also ironic that a country like India only ever gets a few medals, and lucky if it manages gold at all.