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Author Topic: A Good Country to Emigrate To?  (Read 5369 times)

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Online Oniya

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2014, 09:40:51 PM »
LOL...well, you got me there.  I will say the responses I got are of quite a higher caliber than I'm used to seeing online.

We do try to keep this area in the best possible shape.  :D

Offline IStateYourNameTopic starter

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2014, 09:55:50 PM »
We do try to keep this area in the best possible shape.  :D

Well, let me commend you for a job well done.  Nice to see a politics board without "libtards," "Nazis!" "commies" "Obamanation" etc. being hurled around left and right.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2014, 09:56:46 PM »
Maybe you didn't notice but our country is quickly becoming overpopulated and thus causing economic strife. We have high numbers of unemployment which increases the amount of welfare our government has to pay out just to help the people survive. On top of that it causes the hunger rates to increase and that in turn causes more money to be paid out to help feed our people.

Just to clear, this line of reasoning is true for developing nations - where the amount of resources is theoretically fixed or limited.  For developed economies like the United States, our supply for many commodities like food, technology, and housing is directly related to demand.  Meaning, as demand for crops increases, there is financial incentive for the farming industry to expand.  A developed country like the United States is nowhere near its carrying capacity - though the argument about pollution and environmental concerns is very relevant.

Your analysis is correct, however, if this growth in population is not yielding a commensurate growth in economic contribution - as is the case with many illegal immigrants.  Even if they are performing labor, the fact that it is undocumented labor means that for all intents and purposes, it is not recorded when measuring economic growth.

So, bottom line, we need our population to grow, with the expectation that those new people will be active workers and consumers.

The birth rate in Europe is absolutely abysmal, which is part of the reason countries like France have modified their immigration policy in recent years.

Offline Denivar

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2014, 12:31:38 AM »
Have you considered the possibility of simply moving to a different state?

I understand you might disagree with much of the US federal government's foreign policy, as well as issues with domestic policy, political gridlock etc. However, realistically, (1) America's foreign policy is probably going to be just as likely to affect you if you live outside of the US as in the US; and (2) the economic situation you find yourself in based on domestic policy is more largely influenced by state politics than federal politics anyhow.

Different US states have fairly dramatic differences from each other with regard to politics and the social outlook of their citizens. A state like California, Washington, or Maine will feel completely different to Texas or Kentucky. Moving from one state to another is much, much easier than moving to a different country. I've moved to a different country before, and it's a difficult thing to do.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2014, 03:58:05 PM »
Well, let me commend you for a job well done.  Nice to see a politics board without "libtards," "Nazis!" "commies" "Obamanation" etc. being hurled around left and right.

Most of those are right-wing generated insults/slurs, admittedly, and the general demographic of this board is very, very heavily - though not exclusively - left/liberal. But we are still mostly a polite bunch.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 04:00:51 PM by TheGlyphstone »

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2014, 04:13:58 PM »
Most of those are right-wing generated insults/slurs, admittedly, and the general demographic of this board is very, very heavily - though not exclusively - left/liberal. But we are still mostly a polite bunch.

I think it just has more to do with the type of people here.

Most gaming/roleplay forums with debate sections tend to be left-leaning.  I'll tell you from personal experience that some of them can be downright hostile to anyone with opposing views, because both sides are just using talking points, without showing any facts.

Offline IStateYourNameTopic starter

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2014, 09:57:52 PM »
Have you considered the possibility of simply moving to a different state?

I have...and that's my fallback plan.  Finding a place with a lot of land and not too many people, off the beaten path.  But that's not really my preferred solution.  I would like to live in a city--not necessarily a large one, but one with libraries, highways, Internet, a university, etc.  I'm not really looking to withdraw from society.

My ideal community is 50,000 to 200,000 people, on or near the coast, with reasonably mild weather and a decent standard of living.

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2014, 06:32:12 AM »
There are certainly exceptions, but realize that unless you are planning to take on a well-known position overseas (such as an internationally-recognized teaching program, like what kylie mentioned), you'll basically be making your move permanent, and inadvertently losing the many opportunity perks of being an American - which there are many.

        Ummm.  Actually I didn't say anything about teaching jobs being internationally recognized -- or not recognized, for that matter.  You did that all by yourself.  I said a couple vague words about knowing the industry -- I was actually thinking of the industry in places one is going to, and (I suppose) you translated it as that specific thing you'd want.  Me?  I'm probably one of those people who should now expect next to zero US industry recognition for some years of work.  Although there are some states where I might expect a smallish reward for at least spending that time in classrooms, if I were to start formally retraining for better public education credentials. 

        Benefits of being American today are very relative and very much limited by your class and position.  I was in a position where I was finding no paying work of any interest or logistical sanity in two sizable Southern cities.  I came to the conclusion that 1) I needed to survive and 2) my education wasn't earning me much in the US apart from endless commutes through ill-designed, decaying urban infrastructure and long hours where even if I found something half decent eventually (heaven only knew when but it wasn't within my means to find out), most of the take was going to be scooped right away again.  Partly thanks to the lack of any real healthcare safety net, and partly thanks to inflated costs of education and a reduction in real wages and job opportunities (see also financial crash, defunding of state universities, and increasing class gap for generations).

       This is not to say that no other countries are also turning education into a commercial racket where a few big names turn ridiculous profits and many graduates don't really have applicable markets if they did learn something.  (But they can still require people to at least get a BA, often a much watered down one imo).  It's also entirely possible to learn about topics or approaches that people in power just don't want to catch fire.  Be all that as it may, much of the world is still learning English so there are jobs for native speakers in a wide variety of places.  And degrees do get you in the door, so for people who care about the principle of the matter or just need a door -- there it is.
 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 06:44:23 AM by kylie »

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2014, 07:12:09 AM »
I would like to live in a city--not necessarily a large one, but one with libraries, highways, Internet, a university, etc.  I'm not really looking to withdraw from society.

My ideal community is 50,000 to 200,000 people, on or near the coast, with reasonably mild weather and a decent standard of living.
         Well I don't know a great deal about IT startups and the like (you mentioned something about infotech earlier)...  But just off the bat here are my impressions:

          You might need to make some compromise between size of the city you want, and the quality of communications and/or cosmopolitanism it has.  I can think of smaller cities and I can think of places that have a lot of international connections, but it's not so common that they are the same places.  The more connected and accessible places also tend to be quite big...  Hong Kong, Bangkok, Tokyo or Osaka if you can afford it maybe...  A city of 200 k is sort of well, barely an international city to my mind.  Surely there are places I'm not thinking of, but how many of them have high-speed internet, a good university or several, and all those libraries, bookstores, cafes, etc. you want.  And then we get on to chances to meet in person whatever kind of people you might want, which could make the issue of scale much worse. 

         Hardly an exhaustive list but tossing out a few ideas...

          Europe might be of interest if you have either the money, or unique enough skills to settle down there.  They must have some reasonably good comm lines and plenty of smallish cities (though I still think 200 k is looking small -- back in the US, most of Seattle's "outlying" cities are larger than that if I'm not mistaken, and some of those are rather sleepy I think).  For me, Europe or Canada are pretty daunting because they tend to have high and particular demands for unique skills, in order to become classified as a resident and enjoy many of the benefits.  Of course, maybe if you simply have the money and don't need so many benefits of early residency or citizenship, that isn't a big issue. 

           Perhaps you could look into less "popular" places that are developed but could have some smaller communities online --  I don't know, maybe Israel, New Zealand, South Africa I just wonder if they have some quieter areas that are still wired...  Taipei is not actually that small -- but smaller cities in Taiwan might do it?  Or South Korea -- very wired, but again no idea about immigration rules for what you want.   I don't know very much about the Philippines or Indonesia -- some other places that have certain international ties, coastline and very mild weather, but politically and economically they seem very mixed bags to me. 

           Wanting a coast limits things quite a bit maybe, although many large, "global" cities are on the ocean.  Do you mean specifically ocean, or would any sea or large lake do?  Curious.   
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:14:49 AM by kylie »

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2014, 02:24:36 PM »
kylie - My apologies.  I incorrectly assumed you were talking about those US-based programs which organize American teachers to work abroad.

I'll be honest though, this thread feels more like a roleplay brainstorming session for where a character should emigrate to, rather than a realistic discussion about how feasible emigration really is.  It's a fun thought, but until I see more consideration of the issues I raised regarding residency issues, taxation, visa qualifications, as well as necessary resources - it is difficult for me to take some of these views seriously.

It is a bit ridiculous to suggest someone to emigrate the US, simply because they can't find employment in 2 American cities.  If you have student loans, you are now going to have moving costs, along with the loan payments (given the hopeful assumption that you'll somehow find a better paying job overseas than in the US).  It's very risky, and not simply a theoretical matter about which country is better.

Offline IStateYourNameTopic starter

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2014, 03:05:21 PM »
I'll be honest though, this thread feels more like a roleplay brainstorming session for where a character should emigrate to, rather than a realistic discussion about how feasible emigration really is.  It's a fun thought, but until I see more consideration of the issues I raised regarding residency issues, taxation, visa qualifications, as well as necessary resources - it is difficult for me to take some of these views seriously.

It is a bit ridiculous to suggest someone to emigrate the US, simply because they can't find employment in 2 American cities.  If you have student loans, you are now going to have moving costs, along with the loan payments (given the hopeful assumption that you'll somehow find a better paying job overseas than in the US).  It's very risky, and not simply a theoretical matter about which country is better.

Well of course...in this world pretty much everything is predicated on having sufficient funds.  The things you speak of are pretty much all monetary, directly or indirectly.  Unless you're trying to get into one of the odd places that categorically does not welcome outsiders (i.e., Iran or North Korea, places that you probably don't want to end up anyway), all the factors you listed are readily workable provided one has the funds.  I've looked around, and most of the countries I'm considering have codicils in their immigration policies for people bringing money and/or a productive enterprise to said country.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2014, 04:38:43 PM »
Do you really have that kind of dough lying around though?  Realize that you likely won't get permanent residence right away, so you'll likely be paying dual taxes (or something of that nature) for a period of time - if you somehow manage to qualify for a work visa.

If you're wealthy, consider buying an EU citizenship for $880,000
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/21/world/europe/malta-citizenship-program/

You're better off moving to North Dakota, which is going through a bit of an economic boom right now. 

Offline Torch

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2014, 05:32:36 PM »
Do you really have that kind of dough lying around though? 

Anyone with that amount of liquid assets is better off talking to the good folks at Bessemer Trust, JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs or any other reputable private client wealth management firm.

No offense to the good folks at Elliquiy, but...come on now.  ::)

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2014, 05:58:20 PM »
Somehow, I doubt that sets of 'People with that much money to throw around' and 'People who wish to leave the United States' have a very large intersection. 

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2014, 06:01:38 PM »
Somehow, I doubt that sets of 'People with that much money to throw around' and 'People who wish to leave the United States' have a very large intersection.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Venn diagram doesn't intersect.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2014, 06:05:32 PM »
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Venn diagram doesn't intersect.

Or a very very small segment with the phrase 'no extradition treaties' in their head.

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2014, 06:09:03 PM »
Or a very very small segment with the phrase 'no extradition treaties' in their head.

That was the intersection set I was thinking of.  ;D

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2014, 06:15:35 PM »
Or a very very small segment with the phrase 'no extradition treaties' in their head.

Heh!  :D

Offline IStateYourNameTopic starter

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2014, 06:32:02 PM »
Somehow, I doubt that sets of 'People with that much money to throw around' and 'People who wish to leave the United States' have a very large intersection.

Perhaps not.  But money isn't of much use if you don't have your freedom...or if the government has tens of trillions of dollars in debt it needs to inflate away.

Actually, I have $4.2 million in Bitcoin.   ;D   Just kidding...for now.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2014, 07:39:26 PM »
Actually, I have $4.2 million in Bitcoin.   ;D   Just kidding...for now.

What you are doing is incredibly risky.

Anyone who deals with money will tell you that it is not intelligent to put all of your eggs in one basket - even if that single stock is near guaranteed to rise in value.  I had a buddy who put his life savings into Apple when the 1st iPhone came out, and he made a ton of money off of that.  He was lucky, but it doesn't change the fact that he has no clue how to manage his finances.  For every success (luck) story like that, I can show you 100 others who came out a loser.  Both types of people seemingly did "research" in making their risky investment.

Before April/March last year, Bitcoins was around $10-20 per coin in value.  Today it's like $700, and I heard it's valuation is about $1,200 looking ahead.  But you'd be an idiot to dump your life savings into a single endeavor.  If you'd like, put an affordable amount into it.

The main concern, in my opinion, is that Bitcoin only really became a real currency about a year ago.  You're gambling with a very volatile currency.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:43:19 PM by ValthazarElite »

Offline Neysha

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2014, 07:51:09 PM »
Seems stable to me...


Offline Zakharra

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2014, 10:36:19 PM »
Seems stable to me...



 Gold has a much longer history of use. The bitcoins are very new, a few years at the most. Their long term stability hasn't been established yet.

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2014, 11:12:58 PM »
Which is precisely why they are highly volatile.

Offline IStateYourNameTopic starter

Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #73 on: January 06, 2014, 11:19:45 PM »
Which is why I said in my post that I was kidding about plopping all my net worth into Bitcoin.  I would never invest all or even a double-digit percentage of my net worth into any single commodity, especially one as risky and unproven as Bitcoin. 

Offline Valthazar

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Re: A Good Country to Emigrate To?
« Reply #74 on: January 06, 2014, 11:27:59 PM »
Alright, so it's probably becoming clear that emigration really isn't as feasible an option for most of us, as compared to the far better option of moving to a different city/state.

edit: typo
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 11:37:30 PM by ValthazarElite »