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Author Topic: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!  (Read 12471 times)

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Offline Jeramiahh

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #175 on: February 03, 2014, 05:15:16 PM »
Your character is carrying a Major Artifact. That puts him so far off the baseline that it has singlehandedly invalidated any use as an example he might have for evaluating whether or not a feat is overpowered/broken across the game as a whole. Thank you for that clarification, we can now move on.

Ooh, I love this. Dismissing my argument out of hand because, again, hypothetical beats actual. I might need to petition the mods to change your name to TheStrawman, not that I'll ever see it, because, as far as I am concerned, your opinion no longer holds weight. Have a good day, sir.

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #176 on: February 03, 2014, 05:18:16 PM »
Long-term flight (Overland Flight) is much more useful for avoiding melee than Crane Style, in that it allows one to move out of range at all with not "once per round" restriction."  In this case I don't think that the Crane Wing nerf would bring him down to earth in Jeremiaah's example; he'd still be a dodge monster nonetheless.

I looked at the artifact sword, and it only grants normal flight 3/day, not Overland Flight (which was gotten from a party spellcaster), so it's not that out-there power-wise when there are non-artifact magic items which can do this.

I think that this demonstrates that the character is not overpowered on his own or due to the feat so much as party synergy making it so.  Overland Flight and many high-level spells can really upset game balance, so I think that Paizo's feat nerf is missing the forest for the trees when the other options are left in.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:25:41 PM by Skynet »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #177 on: February 03, 2014, 05:23:46 PM »
Ooh, I love this. Dismissing my argument out of hand because, again, hypothetical beats actual. I might need to petition the mods to change your name to TheStrawman, not that I'll ever see it, because, as far as I am concerned, your opinion no longer holds weight. Have a good day, sir.

EDITED. Because I should be a better human being than I am.

Long-term flight (Overland Flight) is much more useful for avoiding melee than Crane Style, in that it allows one to move out of range at all with not "once per round" restriction."  In this case I don't think that the Crane Wing nerf would make the overpowered character not so much in Jeremiaah's example; he'd still be a dodge monster nonetheless.

I looked at the artifact sword, and it only grants normal flight 3/day, not Overland Flight (which was gotten from a party spellcaster), so it's not that out-there power-wise when there are non-artifact magic items which can do this.

I think that this demonstrates that the character is not overpowered on his own or due to the feat so much as party synergy making it so.  Overland Flight and many high-level spells can really upset game balance, so I think that Paizo's feat nerf is missing the forest for the trees when the other options are left in.

Yup. Like I said earlier echoing Moraline, Crane Wing is only overpowered in rather situational circumstances - fights against a single opponent with a single high-damage melee attack as their combat tactic. But said circumstances are disproportionately present in published modules and PFS adventures, which artificially magnifies its apparent impact. Paizo puts a lot of weight, and gets a lot of money, from PFS, so while I don't think it needed the nerf, I think they made the right decision in context by nerfing it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:32:10 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #178 on: February 03, 2014, 05:28:24 PM »
Just a note, I'd rather not have this thread devolve into Internet slap fights.  If you can't talk about Crane Wing otherwise, then discuss other subject matter.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #179 on: February 03, 2014, 05:31:48 PM »
Just a note, I'd rather not have this thread devolve into Internet slap fights.  If you can't talk about Crane Wing otherwise, then discuss other subject matter.

....yeah. You're right. I'll put my cookie back in the box, I should not be baiting the troll. :-[

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #180 on: February 03, 2014, 05:35:55 PM »
Jeremiahh's not trolling either, his opinions are in line with many other folks at the Paizo boards.  Not everyone who gets angry online is doing it for kicks.

Okay, I'm just going to steer the thread elsewhere.

In 3rd Party news, the Warder class came out for Path of War.  Hopefully we'll be seeing the Prestige Classes next, and we slowly grow closer to a full release!

New Paths Compendium came out.  It's a collection of Kobold Press' work of base classes and archetypes.  I bought it, and would recommend it to anyone.  The base classes are cool from both a flavor and mechanical perspective, although I feel that some may be a tad powerful.  My favorite's the White Necromancer, a non-evil spellcaster who negotiates with dead spirits to fight by his side for a worthy cause.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:40:40 PM by Skynet »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #181 on: February 03, 2014, 05:46:07 PM »
3rd-party stuff. That seems like a safe topic.

Personally, I swear by anything from Dreamscarred Press; they wrote better and more balanced 3rd-party material than WotC often managed as 1st-party material in 3.5, and it's seemed like they are continuing the trend as 3rd-party publishers for Pathfinder. They've written Pathfinder psionics, working on Pathfinder Tome of BattlePath of War, and they're promising Pathfinder Incarnum in the works...all my favorite subsystems, they just need to create a good Pathfinder version of the Binder and I'll never need to look at my 3.5 books ever again.

Anyone else have a favorite 3rd-party publisher they like? I've heard Kobold Press mentioned by a few people, how do they stack up?

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #182 on: February 03, 2014, 05:51:53 PM »
Kobold Press are the folks responsible for the Midgard Campaign Setting, which is one of the best campaign settings I read for not just Pathfinder, but 3rd Edition.  I mostly know them through that, and Kobold Quarterly Magazine (which covered D&D editions and retroclones in general).

The material for Midgard, however, is great from what I hear.  Tales of the Old Margreve received an Ennie for best 2010 product, and heavily draws inspiration from Central European fairy tales and is set in a malevolent and sentient forest.  Most of the Underdark is controlled by an Empire of Ghouls where the undead rule in a civilized yet cruel feudal society (Imperial Gazetteer product).  The "Greyhawk/Sharn" equivalent is Zobeck, a clockwork city which overthrew its nobles and is home to a large kobold neighborhood (Zobeck Gazetteer, I own it and its a fun read).  The elder dragons came together in an uneasy alliance to form a mighty empire (Player's Guide to the Dragon Empire) and dragons are tied to the elements of the world and not to alignment.

The planes are detailed in Dark Roads and Golden Hells, and I can't really do justice to it other than to say that it's on par with Planescape and Beyond Countless Doorways in creativity.  Hope I'm not overhyping it. :-[

There's a free 32 page preview on Drive-Thru RPG for anyone who's interested.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:58:36 PM by Skynet »

Online Myrleena

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #183 on: February 03, 2014, 05:57:35 PM »
Considering how vitrolic it got upstream here, I'm bowing out of this thread for good. Have fun everyone.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #184 on: February 03, 2014, 07:26:04 PM »
Considering how vitrolic it got upstream here, I'm bowing out of this thread for good. Have fun everyone.

Sorry to see you go m'lady, you are always welcome to return and I'm, for one, enjoy having you contribute your two cents worth.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #185 on: February 03, 2014, 07:34:00 PM »
Considering how vitrolic it got upstream here, I'm bowing out of this thread for good. Have fun everyone.

We'll miss you, and welcome your (hoped for) eventually change of heart and return...

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #186 on: February 06, 2014, 05:46:14 PM »
What's PFS? I guess I'm sort of new to this conversation and don't have a whole lot to contribute yet.

I've only been playing PF for about a year now, but I've been playing 3.X for about ten years. I like them both, for the most part, although I'm eager to expand my experiences further. Especially considering that in my search for friendly, intelligent discussion on the subject of gaming, it's usually people I know that are 4E converts that talk to me like my years of experience don't count for much or they try to tell me "what D&D is supposed to be", or when I search online, I tend to find a lot of power gamers comparing builds or pointing out the flaws in the systems.

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #187 on: February 06, 2014, 05:59:23 PM »
Basically it's the RPGA but for Pathfinder.  Callie Del Noire's first post in this thread (right below the OP) has a pretty thorough explanation.

Link.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #188 on: February 06, 2014, 06:16:34 PM »
I found it like right before you posted. Sorry for cluttering up the thread with such a question. I feel pressured to try and contribute to the conversation here, so...

I tend to be one of those people who likes different races for the stats, but also to some extent for the flavor of them (and to somewhat redeem myself, I will say that I've probably made more half-orcs than any other race, and these were 3.5 half-orcs). I was wondering, since I've only looked in a few of the PF books, do any of the books have any particularly interesting races, or different takes or spins on common races?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #189 on: February 06, 2014, 06:50:16 PM »
The Alternate Race Guide, the 'Blood' series of books (blood, moon, fiends, ect) all have some intersting things that you can use in PFS and regular pathfinder play.


Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #190 on: February 06, 2014, 06:57:27 PM »
Are these ones that are under the Open Gaming whatever? If not, I'll probably have to write them down for when I have a job again. And I don't actually know how the PFS works, so I'd probably stick with it for my RL group. Although our DM is the kind of person who thinks additional races and classes are extravagant or unnecessary. Which I guess I understand, but sometimes it adds some fun. Especially for me, since I find the racial dynamics pretty interesting. Especially when half my group plays as elves and I feel like sticking it to them.

Then again, the DM has just been rubbing me the wrong way lately. If it isn't him not giving appropriate clues and contexts for things that happen in game, it's him questioning my character creation decisions when he has me help the other characters make their PCs.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #191 on: February 06, 2014, 07:02:32 PM »
Are these ones that are under the Open Gaming whatever? If not, I'll probably have to write them down for when I have a job again. And I don't actually know how the PFS works, so I'd probably stick with it for my RL group. Although our DM is the kind of person who thinks additional races and classes are extravagant or unnecessary. Which I guess I understand, but sometimes it adds some fun. Especially for me, since I find the racial dynamics pretty interesting. Especially when half my group plays as elves and I feel like sticking it to them.

Then again, the DM has just been rubbing me the wrong way lately. If it isn't him not giving appropriate clues and contexts for things that happen in game, it's him questioning my character creation decisions when he has me help the other characters make their PCs.

PFS isn't that bad. You can do it as part of your RL game (play a scenario) so long as you maintain the rules.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #192 on: February 06, 2014, 07:12:24 PM »
Well, I'm not saying if it's bad one way or the other. I'm just not familiar with it all that much. I just meant I'm not really in a place to look into it at this time.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #193 on: February 08, 2014, 12:16:46 PM »
they just need to create a good Pathfinder version of the Binder and I'll never need to look at my 3.5 books ever again.
But wasn't that the opposite of the goal of Pathfinder?  To not invalidate your 3.x collection, like 3.5 did to 3.0?

Why is this suddenly a good thing?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #194 on: February 08, 2014, 01:03:38 PM »
But wasn't that the opposite of the goal of Pathfinder?  To not invalidate your 3.x collection, like 3.5 did to 3.0?

Why is this suddenly a good thing?

Because while this was their design intention, it's had a very poor success rate being put into practice. Groups/DMs that allow both 3.5 and Pathfinder material are exceedingly rare compared to those who only permit PF material, despite - as you said - the two sets being functionally identical (I've met more than a few people who were taught how to play PF and insist they don't know how 3.5 works at all). The less I have to fight to play the character I want, the better. That, and the existing Tome of Battle/Tome of Magic rules were far from perfect, and rather poorly edited in places, so Dreamscarred the chance to redo them better than WotC did them in the first place will also improve the rules themselves in addition to making them superficially more acceptable.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:05:13 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline SkynetTopic starter

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #195 on: February 08, 2014, 03:03:06 PM »
Regarding the Binder, there's a 3rd party version called Pact Magic Unbound, although I don't know if it's good or not.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 03:04:16 PM by Skynet »

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #196 on: February 08, 2014, 04:01:17 PM »
I got a message on facebook from my DM for the PF game we've been doing (Carrion Crown I think) and he told us all we could buy one magic ring at a huge discount this weekend. I'm pretty excited, although I don't really have all that much money.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #197 on: February 10, 2014, 02:11:46 PM »
So I was looking at the Paizo website and looking at all the free downloads for Pathfinder. One was a guide for converting 3.5 things to PF and I downloaded it and read through it. There are a number of classes from 3.5 that I really happened to like and would love to be able to play in Pathfinder and I was curious. Have any of you done much in the way of converting old classes?

Offline someinheritthewealth

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #198 on: March 02, 2014, 09:38:07 AM »
I love Pathfinder it's my favourite mainstream system, I am currently running a game that goes through The Circles of Hell heavy on rping and very unforgiving. It's fun to do.

I am also in two games one newer and one older, had one character leave it and another die, this is my third character she's a Tiefling Bard, Kypto-Spawn loves torturing and generally being sadistic but the arch planned is she will become less evil since she was a loner before. Now with group dynamic she gradually becoming less sadistic and more compassionate.

The other one is same character except totally evil she tortures mutilates and hurts, she takes pleasure in inflicting pain. It's an evil campaign and sandbox this is 3.5 campaign first one I been in, loving it so far still prefer Pathfinder though.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: This thread is about Pathfinder RPG!
« Reply #199 on: March 02, 2014, 04:26:46 PM »
Out of curiousity, did the 3rd party rendition of Book of Nine Swords come out yet?