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Author Topic: Some Polling I Found Intersting  (Read 2151 times)

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Offline RetributionTopic starter

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Some Polling I Found Intersting
« on: October 15, 2013, 08:39:38 AM »
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/15/20960588-the-new-american-center-why-our-nation-isnt-as-divided-as-we-think?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

According to this article I am more normal in my views than I thought! Oddly I suspect the media is guilty of stirring partisan pots to sell papers so to speak.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2013, 05:31:15 PM »
The appearance of conflict within in the country is part of what keeps those in power, in power. It very much serves the system. It keeps people from becoming aware of what the real issues and solutions are, instead of focusing on petty differences. On issues that really matter, the two "sides" of American politics are practically the same.

Online Neysha

Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 06:05:27 PM »
# Whateverman

Hmmmm shows I'm center-right, like most of the political quizzes I take but apparently still part of the NEW American Center.

Online Vekseid

Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 06:25:08 PM »
Without active disinformation, something like 80 percent of Americans agree on the overwhelming majority of issues, with the general public picking the sensible option far more often than not.

Offline RetributionTopic starter

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 08:55:03 AM »
Silly me I think it would be nice to actually get the honest information out there. I suspect if someone wanted to make some coin and had the backing an honest to god "just the facts" news agency would do well. Fox News for example, hear me out before you boo too loudly, came about because it filled a niche since there was a perception of a left slant to main stream news. Politics aside from a business POV they have done very well. I really would like to see an organization do very well, you know reporting the unadulterated news.

And as most can probably guess I come out right center. More center than right actually with just a hair of a rightward lean  :-)

Offline didoanna

Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 08:31:29 AM »
Without active disinformation, something like 80 percent of Americans agree on the overwhelming majority of issues, with the general public picking the sensible option far more often than not.

And the same is true in the UK.....for example, people I know like some Conservative policies but also Labour ones as well.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 10:08:50 AM »
Fox News for example, hear me out before you boo too loudly, came about because it filled a niche since there was a perception of a left slant to main stream news.

... but you know of course that that "perception" was part of a long campaign of far-right disinformation.

The American public is poorly-served by most of its media because the vast part of that media is owned by conservative billionaires and serves the ends of their class. Fox News is just the most radical example of that. So what you'd really want is a) an anti-trust break-up of billionaire media empires that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place, and b) an independent publicly-funded media outlet in the style of the BBC. Unfortunately, if you think health-care reform brought the nutcases and their "grassroots" dupes on the right out in force, that would be nothing compared enacting *gasp!* "socialized media."

On-Topic: The idea of a "new centre" sounds nice and buzz-wordy but is based on some dubious ideas, most of all that people who have ideological common ground in theory will actually vote based upon it, which assumes all those issues are of equal weight to voters when they manifestly aren't. The rise of movement conservatism over the past half-century tells the lie of this notion and charts the success of a movement that perceived that what people would really vote on was their sense of tribal affinity (in this case the WASP Tribe and other affiliated sub-groups and useful hangers-on).

If this holds true in the future, then what we're seeing emerging in that data is a 60-40 split within a "new centre" (probably solidly White) that believes the White man is getting a raw deal and those pesky minorities are walking all over him, and a "new centre" (probably diverse) that doesn't hold with such notions. That's the kind of conflict that really catalyzes passions, and is usually the unseen lever behind bizarre conflicts over what would otherwise be minor policy differences (cf. Tea Party, Obamacare). What I would bet on is the right going after the White tribal sentiment of that 60% and using it -- or attempting to use it -- to get them to vote against their other ideological interests, which was exactly what they did with the Southern strategy, and leaving the rest of the political spectrum to cobble together a coalition outside that base. How long such a tactic would last as America becomes more "majority minority" is a big question mark, but it could probably drag out Tea Party-style gridlock at least for quite a while.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 10:43:08 AM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 10:18:31 AM »
I don't know.  If you spin it the right way, an independent publicly-funded media outlet could be made to appeal to both the conservatives and the liberals.

'News - like it used to be.  News - like it was meant to be.'  All you need is somebody who sounds like Walter Cronkite to do the voice-overs.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2013, 10:44:43 AM »
The American public is poorly-served by most of its media because the vast part of that media is owned by conservative billionaires and serves the ends of their class. Fox News is just the most radical example of that. So what you'd really want is a) an anti-trust break-up of billionaire media empires that should never have been allowed to exist in the first place, and b) an independent publicly-funded media outlet in the style of the BBC. Unfortunately, if you think health-care reform brought the nutcases and their "grassroots" dupes on the right out in force, that would be nothing compared enacting *gasp!* "socialized media."

I agree with you that the American public is poorly-served by most of its media, but I am not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic with the rest of your post.

You seem to be saying that most of the mainstream media in the United States is conservative leaning, with Fox News being the radical example.  But of the major TV news outlets, which probably include ABC News, CBS News, CNN, MSNBC, and NBC News - all of these tend to have a moderate to significant left-leaning bias in their reporting.  Which other mainstream TV outlets do you consider to be conservative leaning?  As I have said previously, your blanket remarks which characterize individuals holding conservative views as nutcases and dupes is ironically the same thing which you criticize conservative-leaning media of doing.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2013, 10:57:13 AM »
of the major TV news outlets, which probably include ABC News, CBS News, CNN, MSNBC, and NBC News - all of these tend to have a moderate to significant left-leaning bias in their reporting.

Most of those are only "moderate to left" by comparison with -- and in the rhetoric of -- a right fringe that long ago drifted into Bizarro World. They aren't "moderate to left" in any globally meaningful sense of those terms, they're moderate-to-left in the sense that Obama seems moderate-to-left -- which is mainly an indicator of how meaningless the terms "moderate" and "left" now are in American political discourse. Most of Obama's policies would have been at home in the Reagan White House.

The sole real exception to that, and it's very recent, is MSNBC.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 11:00:03 AM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 11:16:24 AM »
My concern is that some of your blanket statements are essentially reinforcing the political divide we see in Washington, in our discussions here.  Even after all the debates we have had here, you continue to associate individuals holding conservative economic principles as aligning with the Republican party, or the Tea Party, or as you say, "movement conservatism."  Personally, I fall in none of these categories, like many of the other right-leaning posters here.  Perhaps many of us would have previously referred to ourselves as moderate Republicans, but at least for me, the party's ideologies no longer mirror my own - largely because of their fixation on social conservatism.

In addition, I am genuinely confused as to how you have managed to associate conservative economic values as being a race-based ideology.  I can certainly understand the "political party" of movement conservatism catering to a Caucasian demographic who might be socially conservative - but the fiscal conservative ideology is simply that - an ideology.  I have stated previously that there is merit to both liberal and conservative economic policies, and a middle-ground approach is what I would consider ideal - for example, with a tiered tax rate, forcing multinational corporations to pay their fair share in tax revenue.  While I certainly respect your views, some of your broad accusations about the type of people ascribing to conservative perspectives are actually decreasing the potential for intelligent debate.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 11:19:35 AM by ValthazarElite »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 11:30:02 AM »
My concern is that some of your blanket statements are essentially reinforcing the political divide we see in Washington, in our discussions here.

That political divide doesn't exist by my choice, but if it exists in fact then I will not dance around that. There is no hope of confronting and changing a broken politics without being willing to honestly describe what is actually in front of us.

I identify "conservative economic principles" with movement conservatism because that is a fact, whether all individuals "holding" those "principles" acknowledge it or have actual allegiance to movement conservatism or not. Those "economic principles" concentrate wealth and are explicitly designed to do so, and have a political party in their pocket that uses divisive tribal politics as a means to enabling that agenda. If you're not comfortable that holding such "principles" might seem to put you in the company of such people -- and I would add that it's you, not me, who keeps anxiously insisting on this conflation of all conservatives with "movement" conservatives, I have always made the distinction frank and clear and am losing patience with your bad habit of trying to invent other views on my behalf -- then too bad. That's not going to change the political and economic realities.

If you're not a Republican, then hearing the Republicans described honestly should not make you nervous and defensive and prompt attempts at derailment and obfuscation from you. I personally have always been willing to take you at your word... but that you're a libertarian who imagines his "economic principles" to be innocent of all the perfidies of "movement conservatism" does not make your imaginings true.

Quote
In addition, I am genuinely confused as to how you have managed to associate conservative economic values as being a race-based ideology.

They don't and I have said no such thing. Movement conservatism simply uses tribal politics to enable its agenda. Its politics are simply designed to deliver the actual fruits of that agenda to its real constituency, the billionaires. (They've been really quite open about this for some time. It's why Dubya used to deliver smug speeches to rooms full of people he describes as "the haves" and "the have-mores" and "the elite" and reassuring them that they were "his base.") It's basically an electoral confidence game: focus on a large, cohesive constituency that can deliver reliable numbers at the polls, frighten and exploit it, and make off with the proceeds.

(EDIT: I would add that if you're wondering why I'm bringing it up here, it's because the movement thus described has done very well for itself by its methods and should be expected to try to continue propagating division that favours them within any "new center." It would be hopelessly naive to expect them to behave otherwise.)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 11:53:40 AM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 11:55:42 AM »
Cyrano, I apologize if I misunderstood you, I honestly am not trying to argue or anything here.  The reason why I was concerned that you were grouping all of us in one category is because of statements such as this:

I identify "conservative economic principles" with movement conservatism because that is a fact, whether all individuals "holding" those "principles" acknowledge it or have actual allegiance to movement conservatism or not. Those "economic principles" concentrate wealth and are explicitly designed to do so, and have a political party in their pocket that uses divisive tribal politics as a means to enabling that agenda.

When I read remarks like this, I can't help but get the impression that you are grouping all fiscal conservatives together as movement conservatism.  Since you specifically asked why I am defensive when you make these connections to the movement conservatism, it is because I disagree with the social conservative platform of the Republican party.

The idea that moderate right-leaning individuals support policies that "concentrate wealth and are explicitly designed to do so" is inaccurate.  I tried to clarify this point in the post below:

http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=186414.msg9100566#msg9100566

With that being said though, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the current Republican party and Tea Party are peons for large businesses - and I agree with much of the material you described about movement conservatism - as it is accurately defined, of course.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 12:03:55 PM by ValthazarElite »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2013, 12:03:16 PM »
When I read remarks like this, I can't help but get the impression that you are grouping all fiscal conservatives together as movement conservatism. 

[EDIT: More irritable version of this post redacted because it was taking out unrelated frustration on Val and he doesn't deserve that.]

Let's try it this way. Suppose I'm standing next to a Black Flag anarchist activist, and you hear both of us make the argument that the police are effectively a paramilitary occupation force designed to protect the rich from the poor*. If you counter-argued that that argument unfairly denigrates the police and vastly over-simplifies their role in the community, and that if either of us succeeded in reforming or abolishing the police according to that argument the consequences for public safety would be disastrous... are you really "grouping us together" as Black Flag anarchists by saying our policies on the issue would have the same effects?

(* DISCLAIMER: No, not an argument I would actually make. This is just a hypothetical.)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 12:21:17 PM by Cyrano Johnson »

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2013, 12:24:40 PM »
Discussions I have or get to listen to tell me most of the people I come in contact with prefer the half-hour to hour long local news for the "hard" news they want but for other things like politics, the economy and such they have their favorites they rely on heavily.  I try to avoid editorials, blogs and think pieces when looking for facts and will only watch or read mainstream media after I find as much fact as I can.  I'm very adamant about not wanting to be told what to think or how I'm supposed to be seeing things. 

I'm part of the New American Center.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2013, 12:32:39 PM »
Cyrano, I understand your analogy.  We simply have different perspectives regarding what we consider ideal economic policy to benefit all individuals, and grow a strong middle class.  While I could certainly provide a lengthy explanation of why I feel moderate, right-leaning economic policy is critical in developing a thriving middle class, I have gathered that you have a strong, resolute belief that such policies are detrimental to the middle class over the long-term, and represent pro-rich policy.

That's simply a fundamental difference between us, and I can respect our differences.  But the reality is that no amount of back and forth posting is going to change our perspectives, or make any progress on this front.

All I would ask is that even if you, personally, feel that my economic policies do not benefit the middle class - please realize that moderate fiscal conservatives such as myself, and others who post here with similar views, do feel it benefits the middle class.  In other words, despite your opinion of our policies as being pro-rich, realize that many of us have equal substantive data demonstrating that our policies benefit the working class.  That's really the only point I was trying to make in all of this - and hence the reason why I was drawing a separation from far-right ideology found in the Tea Party and Republican party.  These far-right organizations truly are pro-rich.

My more moderate stance on economic issues is probably in line with many of your views, Cyrano.  For example, higher tax rates on multinational businesses, higher taxes on capital gains, and so on.

Despite these differences, like I said, I agree with much of your commentary on the current state of movement conservative, and 'politicized' conservatism.

I hope we can simply agree to disagree on this issue.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 12:55:40 PM by ValthazarElite »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2013, 12:55:41 PM »
Oh, I have no doubt of the sincerity in which you hold your views, Val.

Admittedly I can't be that sanguine about everyone who has ever promoted such views...  >:)



But as far as you and I go I've never thought of you as other than a perfectly decent fellow-perv, I can assure you. And I agree and have always done that we have plenty of common ground.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 01:10:37 PM by Cyrano Johnson »

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2013, 03:42:54 PM »
I agree with you that the American public is poorly-served by most of its media, but I am not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic with the rest of your post.

You seem to be saying that most of the mainstream media in the United States is conservative leaning, with Fox News being the radical example.  But of the major TV news outlets, which probably include ABC News, CBS News, CNN, MSNBC, and NBC News - all of these tend to have a moderate to significant left-leaning bias in their reporting.  Which other mainstream TV outlets do you consider to be conservative leaning?  As I have said previously, your blanket remarks which characterize individuals holding conservative views as nutcases and dupes is ironically the same thing which you criticize conservative-leaning media of doing.



I hate when people  say the  mainstream media is left-leaning without being honest about what being left-leaning is in today's america. Left-Leaning  in modern america appears to be a  buzzword used by the far right for "inclusive."  That's why  MSM tends to go left. Because the  MSM  ,  like most things in America and the world are designed to appeal to the largest group of people they can.

The Right Wing politics of today simply alienate Homosexuals , African Americans , Hispanics , Asians and anyone with a religious view outside of basic Christianity. If the Right Wing members  of this country would like to see the   media being more sympathetic to their actions they themselves would need to appeal to the large demographics that only left wing politics appeal to in today's  culture.




Online Vekseid

Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2013, 03:46:49 PM »
I agree with you that the American public is poorly-served by most of its media, but I am not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic with the rest of your post.

You seem to be saying that most of the mainstream media in the United States is conservative leaning, with Fox News being the radical example.  But of the major TV news outlets, which probably include ABC News, CBS News, CNN, MSNBC, and NBC News - all of these tend to have a moderate to significant left-leaning bias in their reporting.

This statement is not just false, it is a blatant, unequivocal lie, unless you don't have the slightest clue as to what left versus right means.

- How many gave the same degree of coverage, at the same point from inception, to Occupy Wallstreet that they did to the Tea Party?
- How many promoted a critical stance on the Iraq war?
- How many survey the opinions of labour figures with the same frequency they do to corporate figures?
- How many make regular mention of gains in productivity versus wages?
- How many clarify what historical tax rates were in the US, along with how well the average citizen was doing at the time?

Not a single one.

They're all far-right in terms of authoritarian and corporate leanings.

In the mean time, Fox promotes policies to create an actively indentured populace. They actively support China's policies regarding dissidents.

Let that sink in for a moment.

The only political party News Corporation respects is the Communist Party of China. To the point where their subsidiaries are actively fine with sending citizens to death or worse for them.

The only decent person's response to Fox's behavior ought to be vocal disgust at the absolute best.

When a media corporation is willing to send dissidents to torture, prison and death in support of an authoritarian regime, there's no question about who they would support if such a power gained traction in a for-now Democratic state.

Offline RetributionTopic starter

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2013, 08:32:43 AM »
Okay this is where I piss a lot of people off sorry  :-[ I find the argument that there is not a liberal bent in the main stream media or that it is a vast conspiracy by rich white guys well utterly absurd. For example let us look at Mr. Ted Turner, dude was married to Jane Fonda for fuck's sake the poster child of left leaning. To say he is a member of some vast conservative conspiracy is ridiculous. Look at all the attention Hollywood types are given in the media and for the most part their talent is singing and shaking their asses so I am baffled at their qualifications to be sounding boards for political causes. By and large for whatever reasons these types lean hard left, hell I do not know maybe they feel guilty about wealth and fame.

And the argument that there is a "white tribal" mindset makes me go WTF. Look guys I am a white guy, I also come from a white trash, trailer park background.  Trust me, those who grew up like I did face just as many issues as those who grow up in the inner city. I still look at many of my contemporaries and shake my head in bewilderment. Now granted I am no longer of that social class or what have you. I got myself educated (with help from government programs) and raised myself up and would probably be considered at this point of my life solid middle or upper middle class. At no time was I a member of a vast conspiracy to keep people of color down or misreport on them in the news. To say such is frankly hair brained.

Want to know the difference between trailer trash like I grew up and those in the inner city? The accent!! Both face many of the same issues and hardships. Hell, I recall perfecting the art of hunting as a kid because I did not know where my next dam meal was coming from and toss in a side of cutting a lot of fire wood because my family could not afford to heat the house. A lot of my family's hardships were also utterly and completely self inflicted. I see pretty much all of the same sorts of issues when I look at the inner city there is just a slightly different accent much like the way the two groups talk.

And that is why I have grown to be an utterly color blind person. I find smart and stupid people of all races and genders and walks of life. I work to raise my kids to be color blind as well. But saying that the whole concept of media biased is either false or based on some vast conspiracy is just mind blowing to me. Have any of you looked at Washington recently? They cannot figure out how to balance a checkbook so I am pretty dam sure that a secret manipulation of the entire population is beyond them. It is this sort of conspiracy theory on both sides that keeps us all at one another's throats and leads to well media bias. When the point of the initial link I posted was that hey we are all not really that far apart.

*Takes a Breath* okay am ending my rant and returning to silence here....sorry about that folks.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2013, 08:57:25 AM »
Okay this is where I piss a lot of people off sorry  :-[ I find the argument that there is not a liberal bent in the main stream media or that it is a vast conspiracy by rich white guys well utterly absurd.

That's nice for you. Unfortunately you would have to have an actual answer to any of Vekseid's points above for this"finding" to be worth anything. (And I don't recall anyone saying anything about a "conspiracy" by rich white guys. Conspiracies are things that people try to keep secret.)

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For example let us look at Mr. Ted Turner, dude was married to Jane Fonda for fuck's sake the poster child of left leaning.

So if you bang lefties, you Get The Red? Look, copulins are nifty and all, but I'm like 82.3% sure that is Not How Politics Works. I don't remember seeing the likes of Ted Turner at any anti-war protests, or any billionaires joining the Occupy movement (or funding it... unlike the Tea Party), yet I'm pretty sure a fair number of them are banging liberal artists and film stars too. What gives?

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And the argument that there is a "white tribal" mindset makes me go WTF.

Which tells us you are not a Republican political strategist, and that can only speak well of you. You are, however (I'm assuming) a nimble carbon-based lifeform with opposable thumbs and access to Teh Google. That means you can look up "Southern Strategy" all by yourself, and free yourself forever from making patently silly statements like this. Go forth and be enlightened... the Power of the Internet compels you!

(Of course it's true that I always have trouble entirely believing people who talk about having grown-up white working class or "white trash" in North America -- with the possible partial exception of Saskatchewan -- and yet affect not to know about the widespread nature of this kind of right-wing political sentiment even in areas where it's not entirely dominant. But one does try to extend the benefit of the doubt.)

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Look guys I am a white guy

* Gasp * A white guy! Here?!?!?!

I've never encountered one before! This is unprecedented! First Contact!

Look, something I've always wanted to know, and sorry if it's a bit personal... but do you guys, you know, lay eggs? A friend and I have a bet going.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:30:14 AM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline RetributionTopic starter

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2013, 09:46:45 AM »
Look I was not trying to bog this down with a bagillion links but here goes. Before I do that though I will preface that where Occupy Wall Street failed was that they occupied then did nothing but well occupy. They had the media spotlight then did absolutely nothing with it which is kind of self-defeating, okay a lot self-defeating.

As for links:

Pardon me but I do not think Mr. Turner hangs with the Tea Party http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ted-turner-jane-fonda-cnn-time-warner-295773

As for Iraq I recall at the time I was skeptical but the facts do indeed show a pro war bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War

And for the perception of media bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States

I use Wikpedia because I hope that leads to less ranting about inaccuracy of sources, and it also is filled with other links. My perception of the whole ball of wax is that most have a perception of media bias they just happen to think it is biased to whatever view they oppose. Which all kind of goes back to my original link in that we are not as far apart as we all seem to think we are –but- there is a perception that well the other point of view must lay eggs or something.

I am out guys nothing to be gained by further comment from me here it has devolved as such things often do to ranting and finger pointing.

[edit] and since this was posted while I was typing "(Of course it's true that I always have trouble entirely believing people who talk about having grown-up white working class or "white trash" in North America -- with the possible partial exception of Saskatchewan -- and yet affect not to know about the widespread nature of this kind of right-wing political sentiment even in areas where it's not entirely dominant. But one does try to extend the benefit of the doubt.)" 

Not saying I do not know about it, but you did not get my take which is that trailer trash (me) and inner city are two sides of the same coin in my opinion.....again not as far apart as we might think. So maybe we should all stop being a bunch of sheep and use the gray matter between our ears.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:51:24 AM by Retribution »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2013, 10:02:05 AM »
I use Wikpedia because I hope that leads to less ranting about inaccuracy of sources

And also, conveniently, involves less exposure to actual evaluation of the competing claims to bias in light of the facts. (Spoiler: outside of MSNBC's recent discovery of the progressive market, the claims of "liberal bias" lose on the facts nine times of ten, as you would probably discover if you followed any of the cites from your WikiPedia article -- to, say, non-partisan organizations founded specifically to study the issue such as Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting.)

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So maybe we should all stop being a bunch of sheep and use the gray matter between our ears.

That's excellent advice! You could start by researching some of the actual data on the challenges faced by inner-city black communities as compared to working-class white communities and see if your belief in their equivalence is actually sound on the evidence.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 10:04:16 AM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline RetributionTopic starter

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2013, 10:24:19 AM »
Okay really my last post but I will happily research maybe you can do the same link to the Daily Pedophile snipped.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 11:55:56 AM by Vekseid »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Some Polling I Found Intersting
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2013, 10:41:16 AM »
Excellent. I got to encounter my very first white guy and get linked to the world's first known evidence of poor white people all in one thread. *mind blown *

(All joking aside, I genuinely wish you well in your research. And yes, I'm genuinely willing to compare notes with you.)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 10:53:29 AM by Cyrano Johnson »