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Author Topic: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]  (Read 8810 times)

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Offline NicciKotor

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2013, 07:12:31 PM »
Still room in this? Also, what races are allowed if anything?

I'm going to make a Akali clone anyway, so human ninja for me. I could be her sister or something or other.

Offline Inash

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2013, 07:16:19 PM »
I have a grant proposal that will possibly land me a better job due Wednesday, so here is my incomplete application.  I will finish it Wednesday evening, or as an occasional break before then.

Teeki - Yordle (halfling) fighter 4 /Magus 10.

Description forthcoming after I have time to find a reasonable picture.

A short bit of history:  A cousin of Teemo's.  He shares some of Teemo's attitudes regarding enemies of the Yordle people.  He has served in the Megling Commandos for about 7 years and is considering retirement so that he is no longer as restricted by the military rules and regulations.

Personality:  Still working on that.

Ok, here is the start on the sheet:  http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=681357  I don't have stats yet as I am still deciding between a dexterity and more traditional fighter build.  Which would be a better fit, a short wall o steel for the rest to crouch behind and fire over, or something a bit more get out after the opponent?  I also haven't picked any archetypes because of the same question, well that and I'm not positive I need an archetype. 

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2013, 11:56:01 PM »
Still room in this? Also, what races are allowed if anything?

Well, overall same races as Champions are available. Below is link someone listing the races (does not have complete list as I did find a elf champion);

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=938556

Offline Phaia

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2013, 12:37:06 AM »
is there still room?

Perhaps you all can help answer a question that has arose in different forum group.

A rogue cab sneak attack [from flank] with a ranged attack 30 feet or less. if the rogue takes the talent minormagic and chooses acid slasp can that be used as the range attack for gaining sneak attack bonus? How about Magic missle [ talent major magic]?

also can mage hand be used to open a lock with no tools and wth a minus? RAW suggests it could as long as the weight needed to work the tumblers was no greater then 5 pounds? could mage hand use tools to open a lock at a distance?
 i am considering just a simple half elf rogue if allowed to play and the above was offered ina  discussion in another game. from what it seems a rogue should be able to sneak attack with acid splash or magic missle

phaia

Offline Anon315

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2013, 12:47:51 AM »
Ranged attackers don't flank (with a few EXTREMELY rare exceptions), but you could gain sneak attack on a ranged attack against an opponent who is flat footed or denied his dex to ac. I don't think the spells would work though, as they aren't ATTACKS, they are spells. (Even if they used "ranged touch attacks")

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 02:20:07 AM »
Well, what comes to rogue using mage hand the arcane trickster haves following feature as at-will;

Ranged Legerdemain (Su): An arcane trickster can use Disable Device and Sleight of Hand at a range of 30 feet. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and an arcane trickster cannot take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 5 pounds or less. She can only use this ability if she has at least 1 rank in the skill being used.

So, my own ruling as a ST (and likely ST judgement here in my opinion) is that rogues cannot do pick locks nor sleight of hand with mage hand (even if mage hand is demanded cantrip known to enter arcane trickster). As allowing any rogue do mage hand trickery would render arcane trickster first level feature a moot. So my own advice is to blend 3 levels as wizard (bare minimum to entry) and 3 levels as rogue (because +2d6 sneak attack and 4 ranks in skills can be taken as cross class skills as wizard) and take level as arcane trickster to do what you want (plus get acid splash as at-will cantrip). Then 8 levels as arcane trickster yields pretty solid build, or you just level dip in arcane trickster just for first level feature and take rest levels as rogue as you like (so build being rogue 10/wizard 3/arcane trickster 1).

Now in regards flanking and spells; As Anon315 said normally you do not flank foes with ranged attacks. But you can probably fire off ranged attack on foe who is being flanked by two other combatants (like party's figther and ranger example) and get sneak attack.

In spells wise; the spell needs to have ranged attack roll (normal or ranged touch) to allow sneak attacks with them. So Acid Splash would work but magic missile would not. As ray spells are considered 'weapon alike' and so qualify for sneak attacks (and most orb or other ranged touch attacks).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 02:22:28 AM by Zaer Darkwail »

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2013, 02:24:30 AM »
Oh, also question about my own char; is Leadership feat allowed and if so; would it give cohort and followers or only a cohort or followers? I ask as I have scepter which doubles number of followers (and gives them Bless effect constantly running, including summoned minions).

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2013, 02:28:16 AM »
Ranged attackers don't flank (with a few EXTREMELY rare exceptions), but you could gain sneak attack on a ranged attack against an opponent who is flat footed or denied his dex to ac. I don't think the spells would work though, as they aren't ATTACKS, they are spells. (Even if they used "ranged touch attacks")

 You can sneak attack with a spell that requires an attack roll. It's just about the ONLY reason in Pathfinder to mutliclass into a rogue.

Offline GhostwheelTopic starter

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2013, 02:40:08 AM »
Well, overall same races as Champions are available. Below is link someone listing the races (does not have complete list as I did find a elf champion);

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=938556

As I mention in the original post, all Pathfinder races can be used and if you are accepted I will work with you to find where they may have come from or the like.

A rogue cab sneak attack [from flank] with a ranged attack 30 feet or less. if the rogue takes the talent minormagic and chooses acid slasp can that be used as the range attack for gaining sneak attack bonus? How about Magic missle [ talent major magic]?

What others have said, if it has an attack roll, you can sneak attack with it as long as you're flanking or they're denied dex to AC.

also can mage hand be used to open a lock with no tools and wth a minus? RAW suggests it could as long as the weight needed to work the tumblers was no greater then 5 pounds? could mage hand use tools to open a lock at a distance?

Yes, at a -2 penalty. Mage Hand doesn't have the deftness required to maneuver tumblers open and the like, as someone mentioned, you need Arcane Trickster for that.

i am considering just a simple half elf rogue if allowed to play and the above was offered ina  discussion in another game. from what it seems a rogue should be able to sneak attack with acid splash or magic missle

Sounds good, you'd be able to sneak attack with Acid Splash (or Scorching Ray, or Polar Ray, etc), but not with Magic Missile as it lacks an attack roll.

Oh, also question about my own char; is Leadership feat allowed and if so; would it give cohort and followers or only a cohort or followers? I ask as I have scepter which doubles number of followers (and gives them Bless effect constantly running, including summoned minions).

Definitely not. Leadership is a terrible feat and has no room in my game.

Now in regards flanking and spells; As Anon315 said normally you do not flank foes with ranged attacks. But you can probably fire off ranged attack on foe who is being flanked by two other combatants (like party's figther and ranger example) and get sneak attack.

Please cite your source?

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2013, 02:56:51 AM »
Ok, no leadership then. But the staff is still good as it boosts moral bonuses by +1 and gives Bless for everyone (and some nifty skill bonuses).

Anyways in regards to firing off into target and flank them with ranged attack I quote one feat; Ranged Flank. As it reads; normally only melee people can flank targets unless you gain class feature allow same thing specifically. If you want do ranged flanking with ray spells; you need Ranged Flanker feat.

Anyways, you can do ranged sneak attacks on foe who has no Dex bonus to AC, may it be through any means (feint, flanked, invisible attacker etc). So if two buddies are flanking a enemy (who has lost dex bonus from AC, in case of feat or uncanny dodge feature the flanking does not remove Dex bonus from AC) then rogue can throw knives and do sneak attacks with it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 04:41:29 AM by Zaer Darkwail »

Offline GhostwheelTopic starter

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2013, 05:36:26 AM »
I noticed a few people who've handed in their character sheets have based their skill points on their final Intelligence modifier; I want to reiterate real quick, as is mentioned on the variant, increases to Intelligence from ability boosts and enhancement do not increase skill points per level.

Also, an enemy being flanked does not deny them their Dexterity bonus to AC, and you need to count as one of the people who are flanking in order to gain sneak attack from an opponent being flanked, so no, even if two other allies are flanking an enemy, you would not get sneak attack damage when attacking with a ranged (or otherwise) weapon if you are not *also* flanking them or have denied them their Dexterity bonus to AC some other way.

Offline Lockepick

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2013, 07:35:04 AM »
Yes, at a -2 penalty. Mage Hand doesn't have the deftness required to maneuver tumblers open and the like, as someone mentioned, you need Arcane Trickster for that.

An Arcane Trickster does so at +5 DC -- so by this ruling, it's actually easier (as -2 penalty is the same as +2 DC) than an actual Arcane Trickster.

As for the Skills: Is this a specific house rule? In Pathfinder, usually any gear that gives Enhancement bonus to Int also comes with skill ranks. Any other Intelligence boosts effect total skill points retroactively.

Source: Under 'Permenant Bonuses'
Source: Headband of Intelligence Specs

EDIT: Let me be clear that I'm perfectly fine if this IS a house rule -- I just wanted to make sure that was the intent.


EDIT: Reading comprehension! Yay! My mistake.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 08:58:02 AM by lockepick »

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Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2013, 07:55:34 AM »
It's a house rule, I think. But, as there are two opinions on retroactive effects and I'm not sure either is any less valid than the other, I would lean toward the not being retroactive. It doesn't make sense to me for you to suddenly know more in the past than you knew at the time or to suddenly remember more than you knew a few moments ago. In the case of the headband, if you remove it, you would loose those skill points along with the INT modifier... if you get a +1 mod increase at level 4 (or 8 or 12), then by all means, add that to the number of skill points you have per level at that time, but going back to add 4 or 8 or 12 skill points retroactively just doesn't make sense to me. That's in the past and altering it is a little bit of a hard sell.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2013, 08:42:17 AM »
lockepick: It's specific ruling in the balanced wealth system where instead buying gear you get passive bonuses same as if you had bought the items. So in this case scenario you do not get more skill points than what you get via raw stats. Also this method entirely removes every 4th level stat bonus nor able use tomes or wishes gain stat bonuses.

Read carefully both links folks!

Ofc, this system partly screws over summoner classes as they cannot give 'stat boosting' items to their eidolon but it makes any stat boosting spells more valuable to know (as before bull's strength would be pointless to learn as that point buy could buy eidolon a belt of strength, which in this system you cannot). But can live with it as I made quite decent eidolon and being wild caller and using half-elf favored bonus yields plenty evolution points.

Offline Lockepick

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #64 on: October 15, 2013, 08:59:38 AM »
I changed my post, as the ruling seems quite clear on the topic.

I would remind that 3.5e didn't give Skill Points for Enhancement bonuses, where Pathfinder does. Balanced Wealth was written for 3.5e. If we don't want to give additional skill points, I'm fine either way. I just wanted to make sure we were using the rules we intended to use.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2013, 09:14:07 AM »
That's true point; in 3.5 SP was not retroactively given if you got Int stat boost. Also true that -2 penalty to use mage hand for roguish stuff still trolls over arcane trickster who increases DC of the tasks by +5. Either penalty needs be bigger or not be possible at all.

Anyways question; can I transfer some my passive stat bonuses onto my eidolon? Like +3 deflection bonus removed from my AC and moved onto eidolon? As I realized Merge Forms (the 20th level summoner capstone) would be complete nerf to my char's AC and abilities as I loose 'item bonuses' and instead gain eidolon bonuses.

So would make sense in balanced wealth eidolon moves most passive bonus gains onto eidolon itself than summoner. Ofc summoner would have magic items and such, but example +3 enchantment bonus to weapons could be moved over to eidolon.

Offline GhostwheelTopic starter

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2013, 11:10:28 AM »
That's true point; in 3.5 SP was not retroactively given if you got Int stat boost. Also true that -2 penalty to use mage hand for roguish stuff still trolls over arcane trickster who increases DC of the tasks by +5. Either penalty needs be bigger or not be possible at all.

Read comprehension again--like I said, mage hand can't do ranged disable device checks, it's not deft enough. The -2 applies to not using tools at all.

Anyways question; can I transfer some my passive stat bonuses onto my eidolon? Like +3 deflection bonus removed from my AC and moved onto eidolon? As I realized Merge Forms (the 20th level summoner capstone) would be complete nerf to my char's AC and abilities as I loose 'item bonuses' and instead gain eidolon bonuses.

I'll allow you to move anything but the first column in the table (anything but the stat boosts) to the Eidolon instead of yourself, chosen at the start of the day (and can't be changed until the next day). For weapon, you can apply the enchancement bonus to one natural attack (or pair, if the evolution gives a pair), and you'll have to use the splitting rules (-1 per extra weapon) if you want to grant it to more natural weapons. Same with manufactured weapons--you'll need to either only apply it to one weapon, or split the bonus as per the rules.

That sound fair?

EDIT: I've also updated the character creation rules in the first post to grant characters 2 weapons, 1 suit of armor, and 1,000 gold to start.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 11:16:09 AM by Ghostwheel »

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2013, 11:20:18 AM »
Ok, although with magic fang (greater) you can give +1 enchantment bonus to all natural weapons the eidolon haves. So splitting from +3 I can give three weapons +1 (bite, claws and rake). Not to mention later I get 2 more attacks, so overall the trade off is not that good and I likely stick it with my own weapon and use the spell boost my eidolon.

Anyways, stat boosting spells for eidolon then it seems and rest part is good.

Offline Inash

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #68 on: October 15, 2013, 02:00:57 PM »
I'm dropping the fighter levels because the myrmicarch archetype gives me most of what I would have gotten out of that anyway.

Teeki - Yordle (halfling) Magus 14 Archetypes:  Bladebound, spellblade, Myrmidarch

Note:  Bladebound gives the magus an intellegent blade, basically as a familiar.  Details here:  http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/bladebound  Is this ok?

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/077/4/1/fields_of_justice___last_yordle_standing_by_sazzyranyday-d4t44xb.jpg
Description: Green eyes, greenish brown fur.  (still need to roll height and weight to help finish this, also need to add quirks.)

A short bit of history:  A cousin of Teemo's.  He shares some of Teemo's attitudes regarding enemies of the Yordle people.  He has served in the Megling Commandos for about 7 years and is considering retirement so that he is no longer as restricted by the military rules and regulations.

Personality:  Anything to protect Bandle City, absolutely anything.  Burn a neighboring town to the ground, done.  Help defend a neighboring town, also done.  Pretend to help defend a neighboring town, while turning it into a flaming deathtrap, ... you get the picture.  He has an absolute and almost frightening dedication to the safety of his hometown.  While he is a fairly pleasant individual, and generally forthright and honest, there is no task he won't sink to if it is necessary.

He is also fairly studious and diligent in his studies, both magical and martial.

Sheet: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=681357 Still need to do spell selection and equipment.

If the bladebound archetype is ok, how does that mesh with the balanced wealth rules?  For that matter, how does the arcane pool class feature mesh with the wealth rules?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 03:51:45 PM by Inash »

Offline GhostwheelTopic starter

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2013, 03:31:37 PM »
Note:  Bladebound gives the magus an intellegent blade, basically as a familiar.  Details here:  http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/bladebound  Is this ok?

Anything by Paizo is fine. Would you mind making the picture a link? That way it doesn't take 90% of the post :P (Or change img height)

Just a quick note--Myrmidarch uses Spellstrike, but you give up Spellstrike with Spellblade, so the level 4 feature won't be usable.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 03:34:37 PM by Ghostwheel »

Offline Inash

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2013, 03:53:00 PM »
I wondered about that.  I wasn't sure if Ranged Spellstrike was dependent on Spellstrike or not.  I may have to rethink the archetype mix a bit, which I will probably do tonight while doing dishes or some such.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2013, 04:25:03 PM »
 How do you feel about adapting the Warblade and Disciplines to Pathfinder?

Offline NicciKotor

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2013, 06:52:16 PM »
Is ninja girl is a okay template to run with here? Need some validation before getting into the gritty.

Offline Ebb

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2013, 09:44:55 PM »
Adding background and description:

Prince Borpal of the Bubbling Bog, Lord of the Honeytoe Tribe
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=681279

Borpal was once the Prince of his tribe, an admittedly small and generally overlooked group of Grippli living in a corner of the Bubbling Bog. He stood almost two inches taller than his brethren -- well, all except for Weird-Eye Topal, but no one ever really considered him a contender for the Honeycomb Throne. The life of the Honeytoe Tribe was peaceful, save for occasional skirmishes with rival Grippli tribes which seldom resulted in a single casualty. The people were poor, honorable, wise and generally insulated from the chaos of the rest of the world. If they were known for anything it was for the quality of their honey, which sometimes fetched a high price in cities far, far away from the little swamp.

It was a peaceful existence until one afternoon Topal vanished only hours before a rampaging Runestorm devastated their swamp. As if the rampaging spells weren't enough, chaotic beasts emerged from the roiling mists and either slew or carried off all of the tribe members save for Borpal himself, who managed to slay the demon who was attempting to abduct him.

After burying the dead, Borpal swore that justice would be served, cold, to those supernatural forces who had wiped out his tribe. He was granted the divine might of the Swamp Gods, and has since pursued his quest with single-minded devotion, despite being not entirely sure who was responsible for the attack. Though pretty much any wizard or demon makes a good target.

Borpal can be pleasant, though his alien ways sometimes come off as offputting to mammalian folk. He is wise far beyond his years and size, with two giant gelatinous discerning eyes that seem to be able to peer into the souls of others and a ten-foot silver tongue. With demons he spares no quarter and can be a terror to behold.

Borpal wears a green quilted jacket, a holy symbol around his neck, and no pants or shoes. He typical travels sitting cross-legged on his tiny flying carpet, hovering at a height to put him into easy eye contact with his human companions. The inquisitor wields a scaled-down repeating crossbow heavy with enchantment. Borpal's skin is mottled green and gray with a dull sheen. His eyes are bright green, and his underbelly and throat sac tend toward yellowish-green. His voice is a surprising baritone.

Offline Phaia

Re: Good Work Never Ends [PATHFINDER]
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2013, 10:38:07 PM »
nice ebb but ya need to turn on access to mythweavers  i have an account there and it would not let me see the sheet!!

Phaia