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Author Topic: government shut down  (Read 13012 times)

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Online Laughing Hyena

Re: government shut down
« Reply #375 on: October 16, 2013, 01:08:34 AM »
Who the heck knows at this point. All I am saying that if diplomacy and negotiations fail, there are other options as well. And with less then 24 hours to do it in, the more harsh options seems more and more likely.

Not that the impeachment option doesn't appeal to me. But the problem is that only the Senate can do that if I recall correctly and they aren't going to do that I suspect.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 01:17:16 AM by Laughing Hyena »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #376 on: October 16, 2013, 01:21:20 AM »
*nods* Perhaps some of the leading Tea-Partists in the House could be kidnapped by American patriots?  ;)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: government shut down
« Reply #377 on: October 16, 2013, 02:04:10 AM »
Are you saying they should impeach Boehner and Cruz?  ;D

Don't leave out the House Majority Whip too.

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #378 on: October 16, 2013, 06:21:09 AM »
Are you saying they should impeach Boehner and Cruz?  ;D

I'd say that this is a smidge worse than getting caught with an intern, yes.

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #379 on: October 16, 2013, 07:58:14 AM »
Can somebody explain to me in plain simple English what it means if nothing happens before tomorrow and the US reaches that debt limit?

I know it means the US cannot loan any more money but what does that mean for the American citizens?

Offline Avis habilis

Re: government shut down
« Reply #380 on: October 16, 2013, 08:04:47 AM »
I know it means the US cannot loan any more money but what does that mean for the American citizens?

Not exactly. It means the US couldn't contact any more debt than it's in already. Problem is, the fed uses debt (selling bonds) to pay off ... well, other debt. The government would be unable to pay bills it has already incurred. That means the government's cost of borrowing would go through the roof, much like a person who missed a car or mortgage payment would see the interest rate on their credit card suddenly jump to 29% or something.

It might also mean that the people who hold U.S. debt (that is, who own bonds, treasury bills & so on) start dumping it because they no longer believe they'll get paid. Essentially the cost the government has to pay to do anything would shoot up. For reasons I only vaguely remember this would maim the value of U.S. currency, making everything more expensive for everybody.

The Treasury Department has enough cash on hand to keep paying the bills until (coincidentally) Hallowe'en. Then they've spent the last of the change they found in the couch cushions & things get really scary.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:06:05 AM by Avis habilis »

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #381 on: October 16, 2013, 08:19:19 AM »
Hmm. So basically there isn't too much problems until Halloween?

Online Laughing Hyena

Re: government shut down
« Reply #382 on: October 16, 2013, 08:26:57 AM »
Which is why I am surprised things haven't escalated to physical force yet.

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #383 on: October 16, 2013, 08:30:10 AM »
I'm just worried about the global effects. Europe's finally climbing out of a recession that lasted nearly 5 years and cost many people their jobs. America was a bit quicker to climb out but with the US Dollar depreciating like hell, that would certainly drag Europe back into a recession again.

Of course there is the American aspect as well but that has been highlighted here before by people who know more about it than me but I don't see many global concerns yet, which surprises me a bit. I guess the world's still confident the situation will get solved.

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #384 on: October 16, 2013, 08:33:13 AM »
I'm just worried about the global effects. Europe's finally climbing out of a recession that lasted nearly 5 years and cost many people their jobs. America was a bit quicker to climb out but with the US Dollar depreciating like hell, that would certainly drag Europe back into a recession again.

Of course there is the American aspect as well but that has been highlighted here before by people who know more about it than me but I don't see many global concerns yet, which surprises me a bit. I guess the world's still confident the situation will get solved.

Na´ve fools. They'll see. *this coming from an American* Chimps in office would be more effective (and less costly) than the people currently elected. No one is going to raise the debt ceiling before it hits. We'll hit another depression, and the economy will tank (perhaps not right away, it might be gradual, but it will happen). Global confidence in our ability to pay our debt will plummet, and we'll eventually end up like Greece. I really don't want to Greece.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:34:36 AM by Bloodied Porcelain »

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #385 on: October 16, 2013, 08:35:01 AM »
Naive fools. They'll see. *this coming from an American* Chimps in office would be more effective (and less costly) than the people currently elected.

You've had a chimp in office before? Bush Jr.?

Anyway, I just hope that when it get's perilous, the rest of the world can extort some pressure onto the US to solve the issue. Although I don't think that will happen or help.

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #386 on: October 16, 2013, 08:36:03 AM »
The rest of the world is probably underestimating the capacity of human pride, stubbornness, and stupidity. :-\   Because surely the U.S. Congress isn't that dumb to throw the rest of the world under the bus because of an attempt to get U.S. health care on par with Europe's.

Online Laughing Hyena

Re: government shut down
« Reply #387 on: October 16, 2013, 08:41:46 AM »
Never underestimate the idiocy of politicians. Honestly it's damn near frightening how media mouth pieces like Fox News escalate the problem. Im just glad my Dad didn't live to see this because he'd be turning over in his grave.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #388 on: October 16, 2013, 08:43:24 AM »
Which is why I am surprised things haven't escalated to physical force yet.


Government shut shot down.

FIFY  :D

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #389 on: October 16, 2013, 08:45:30 AM »
I look at this the same way I look at the Sequester. No one thought they'd let it get so bad that the sequester would be put in to effect. It was such a monumentally BAD idea everyone was like "this will scare them in to doing their job", but yeah-no. *sigh*

Offline Serephino

Re: government shut down
« Reply #390 on: October 16, 2013, 08:48:18 AM »
The Tea Party really is that stupid.  As someone who relies on Social Security, I'm really freaking out here.  If this means I won't get my check, I don't know what I'm going to do. 

Offline LunarSage

Re: government shut down
« Reply #391 on: October 16, 2013, 08:52:50 AM »
The Tea Party really is that stupid.  As someone who relies on Social Security, I'm really freaking out here.  If this means I won't get my check, I don't know what I'm going to do. 


+1

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #392 on: October 16, 2013, 10:03:18 AM »

It might also mean that the people who hold U.S. debt (that is, who own bonds, treasury bills & so on) start dumping it because they no longer believe they'll get paid. Essentially the cost the government has to pay to do anything would shoot up. For reasons I only vaguely remember this would maim the value of U.S. currency, making everything more expensive for everybody.


Wait a minute...you mean, buying stuff, or services, from the U.S. is going to get cheaper for the rest of us?  :D

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #393 on: October 16, 2013, 10:19:53 AM »
Wait a minute...you mean, buying stuff, or services, from the U.S. is going to get cheaper for the rest of us?  :D

If we had anything to sell...  You're probably better off going direct to China and skipping the middleman. 

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #394 on: October 16, 2013, 10:38:16 AM »
If we had anything to sell...  You're probably better off going direct to China and skipping the middleman. 

*looks up "Union Sundown" by Bob Dylan (not on Youtube in it's incomparably snooty, concise studio version) - thirty years old track but quite prophetic*

Apparently they have a deal now that seems to be fairly ready... in the senate - not voted there yet - but the real test will be if some of the Republicans in the House can stomach the defeat and vote for it, because they would get very little of their opposition to funding the ACA upheld.

If they don't pass this in the House, then it's...not much time left, at all.

Online Laughing Hyena

Re: government shut down
« Reply #395 on: October 16, 2013, 10:46:40 AM »
Well here's hoping. I hope for some good news on this end. Apparently they will put this off for now until the 15th of January when this will inevitably come up again. If it works anyway.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: government shut down
« Reply #396 on: October 16, 2013, 11:43:06 AM »
Not too sure how smart I am or how realistic this is...

But would it not be possible to get an emergency meeting up in the Senate to try and avoid the imminent default with or without certain parties, namely the ones whom are essentially doing this? The government can thus remain shut down but the biggest bombshell is essentially defused. And if people still try to hold onto that couldn't they be very well charged with treason for this kind of national endangerment?

Because as it stands at this point if nothing is done, everybody loses.
According to that video, assuming I'm understand Politicese, that you can't do it without the Republic party ITSELF making that call.  And seeing as they won't, because they're trying to make Obama look bad, or something, then we have this stand still.

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #397 on: October 16, 2013, 12:06:32 PM »
According to that video, assuming I'm understand Politicese, that you can't do it without the Republic party ITSELF making that call.  And seeing as they won't, because they're trying to make Obama look bad, or something, then we have this stand still.

That's what I got out of it as well.

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #398 on: October 16, 2013, 12:10:05 PM »

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #399 on: October 16, 2013, 01:11:53 PM »
Quote
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid hailed the agreement he worked out with his GOP counterpart Mitch McConnell as "historic," saying that "in the end, political adversaries put aside their differences."

I think he means 'hysteric' rather than 'historic'.

I doubt they really put aside their differences but in fact it was just their wife and kids who told them to stop playing stupid games and get to work because they couldn't go to school anymore without being bullied.

At least in my mind that's how it is.