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Author Topic: government shut down  (Read 13031 times)

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Offline Tharic

Re: government shut down
« Reply #100 on: October 01, 2013, 11:39:02 AM »
I even learned a bit about your health care system! It's just tragic how the American people get treated by their government. Although a lot of the European politics aren't much better despite what they say. And I hope this issue will get resolved soon without it having too much an impact on the American people and in fact the world economy.

She sad fact is Dashenka, unless someone is personally affected by the shutdown, a vast majority of American's will simply go "Huh? What shutdown" and continue through life with their blinders on, unaware what is even happening.

I've heard three "watercooler conversations" today at the office and none of them are regaling how they're concerned about it. I've heard more about last nights episode of Dancing With The Stars from people outside my office today that I've heard about this issue.

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #101 on: October 01, 2013, 11:41:33 AM »
Maybe they got used to it?

I think it's not necessarily the shutdown itself that people are concerned about, it's more how the politicians (dis)behave and proof once again that they are elected BY the people and not FOR the people.

Offline MistermeTopic starter

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2013, 11:43:18 AM »

I think it's not necessarily the shutdown itself that people are concerned about, it's more how the politicians (dis)behave and proof once again that they are elected BY the people and not FOR the people.

Great way to put it Dashenka

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2013, 11:43:38 AM »
She sad fact is Dashenka, unless someone is personally affected by the shutdown, a vast majority of American's will simply go "Huh? What shutdown" and continue through life with their blinders on, unaware what is even happening.

I've heard three "watercooler conversations" today at the office and none of them are regaling how they're concerned about it. I've heard more about last nights episode of Dancing With The Stars from people outside my office today that I've heard about this issue.

+1

On my way in to the office, while sitting in half an hour of traffic to travel less than half a mile to get through the gate to the base I work on (they only had three people checking IDs instead of six... because of the shut down) I was listening to a news station on Sirius. They talked about the shut down for oh... 2 minutes? The rest was which celebrities were rumored to have had a secret wedding, who had a baby, and the fact that Bill Nye got voted off Dancing. I was like "...teh fuck?" Don't get me wrong... I adore Bill Nye, but I'm pretty sure he's more concerned about the shut down than getting voted off that ridiculous show.

I didn't hear anyone talking about it in any depth until I got in to work, and only because so many people here showed up to get their furlough notices and go back home.

Offline ladyelizabeth

Re: government shut down
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2013, 11:53:05 AM »
I know this is a serious topic.  I saw this picture and knew I just HAD to post this.  I believe a little humor can help a bit. 


Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: government shut down
« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2013, 11:53:36 AM »
So technically speaking the lawmakers in Washington (dem and rep alike) no matter if in the house or senate is the political terrorist.

No. The senate is saying 'We are willing to discuss this, and you're right it needs to be looked at, but we need a budget that works. Don't hold the process hostage to get your way'.

The House GOP is saying, 'We'll shut down everything unless you let us backdoor repeal the ACA despite multiple ways/methods failing before.'

There have been FORTY-TWO measures before the House to repeal/shut down ACA despite the fact that none of them worked. Ever. Now, once again the GOP Leadership is using the incipient budget crisis to hold the system hostage to get what they want..despite it's not what the majority want. Most folks want affordable heath care. The program was modeled on a program instituted by a REPUBLICAN Candidate for President.

If the Senate/President give in. Next year it will be something else. Then something after that. That only encourages obstructionism not cooperation.

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2013, 11:58:31 AM »
If the Senate/President give in. Next year it will be something else. Then something after that. That only encourages obstructionism not cooperation.

This.

Offline ThePrince

Re: government shut down
« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2013, 12:06:50 PM »
Since its only the house of reps listening to the people and senate wants only what they want then i say shut the government

I am going to address why this is entirely the house republicans fault. Point by point.

1. This is not how are government works or should work. One part of the lesigeslative branch can not hold the country and the global economy hostage until they get what they want. If they want changes to ACA then they need to negotiate with the senate and the president without using the country and the global economy as a bargaining chip.

2. Its a bad deal. The repulicans are offering 6 weeks of keeping the government running for defunding the ACA. Every offer they brought up last night would have defunded the ACA, the senate and the president are right to reject these offers. Senate Democrats have gone on record saying that they are open to negotiating the ACA, but they want it as part of a bigger budget deal.

3. Precedent. If the house republicans get what they want this time. Whats to stop them from doing it again 6 months from now? We do not want this crisis to become the normal way laws are passed. If this tactic is successful what is there to stop a democratic majority house from doing the same thing to republican senate and president? The Presiedent and the senate will not allow this.

4. The Healthcare Exchanges have started today. Part of the ACA began today. 35 states now have Healthcare exchanges where you can buy your own health insurance or get a more affordable plan. The Republican cuts would defund these programs or force insurance companies out of it. Thus depriving people of afordable healthcare.You can find out more about your local healthcare exchange at healthcare.gov

5. The Debit Limit. House republicans have stated that they will not vote to increase the Debit Limit. If the debt limit is not increased by October 17 then the world economy colaspes, this will affect everyone even if you live outside of the US. I should not have to explain why the debit limit should not be used as a bargaining chip.

Please excuse my poor spelling I am writting this on my phone.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2013, 12:12:41 PM »
Both parties are a bunch of whiny children. They might as well be five-year-olds on the playground.

This is why I hate a predominantly two-party system. If it's not the Republicans holding the nation hostage, it's the Democrats. They're so dug in they can't see past their own trench walls.

You can blame the Democrats, you can blame the Republicans, but they're obviously symptoms of the larger problem. I urge everyone to vote for someone else. If there was no one-sided majority this couldn't have happened. Someone would have had to negotiate, compromise with someone else.

Offline MistermeTopic starter

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2013, 12:51:54 PM »
you are right both sides are acting like 5 year olds. what we need are compromising adults that can get the job done for the american people.

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #110 on: October 01, 2013, 01:01:12 PM »
Both parties are a bunch of whiny children. They might as well be five-year-olds on the playground.

This is why I hate a predominantly two-party system. If it's not the Republicans holding the nation hostage, it's the Democrats. They're so dug in they can't see past their own trench walls.

You can blame the Democrats, you can blame the Republicans, but they're obviously symptoms of the larger problem. I urge everyone to vote for someone else. If there was no one-sided majority this couldn't have happened. Someone would have had to negotiate, compromise with someone else.

Yes... the Democrats are holding the nation hostage by refusing to allow the other party to use a loop hole to all but repeal a law that's already in action using a process that has nothing to do with that law...

That doesn't even make sense. The ACA is already a law. It's already been funded. It's already being enacted across the US. It has nothing to do with passing the national budget at this stage. Thus it shouldn't even be part of this debate. Every other attempt the Republicans have made to do away with the ACA has failed. Even the courts uphold it. This is, pure and simple, the Republicans trying to hold the economy and the government hostage over one thing they don't like. Seriously. One. Thing.

I don't belong to any party, but anyone who looks at this situation and tries to say that the side upholding the law is the one in the wrong must exist in a place apart from reality. There are some things the Democrats do that I don't like. There are some thing the Republicans do that I do like. In this particular case, there's very little the Democrats are doing that I disagree with and almost everything the Republicans are doing I disagree with. Not based on any particular party leaning or affiliation, but based on a black and white view of right and wrong, reality and fantasy, and governmental processes.

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #111 on: October 01, 2013, 01:05:09 PM »
Yes... the Democrats are holding the nation hostage by refusing to allow the other party to use a loop hole to all but repeal a law that's already in action using a process that has nothing to do with that law...

That doesn't even make sense. The ACA is already a law. It's already been funded. It's already being enacted across the US. It has nothing to do with passing the national budget at this stage. Thus it shouldn't even be part of this debate. Every other attempt the Republicans have made to do away with the ACA has failed. Even the courts uphold it. This is, pure and simple, the Republicans trying to hold the economy and the government hostage over one thing they don't like. Seriously. One. Thing.

I don't belong to any party, but anyone who looks at this situation and tries to say that the side upholding the law is the one in the wrong must exist in a place apart from reality. There are some things the Democrats do that I don't like. There are some thing the Republicans do that I do like. In this particular case, there's very little the Democrats are doing that I disagree with and almost everything the Republicans are doing I disagree with. Not based on any particular party leaning or affiliation, but based on a black and white view of right and wrong, reality and fantasy, and governmental processes.

This x 1000!!

Offline Inkidu

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #112 on: October 01, 2013, 01:09:38 PM »
Yes... the Democrats are holding the nation hostage by refusing to allow the other party to use a loop hole to all but repeal a law that's already in action using a process that has nothing to do with that law...

That doesn't even make sense. The ACA is already a law. It's already been funded. It's already being enacted across the US. It has nothing to do with passing the national budget at this stage. Thus it shouldn't even be part of this debate. Every other attempt the Republicans have made to do away with the ACA has failed. Even the courts uphold it. This is, pure and simple, the Republicans trying to hold the economy and the government hostage over one thing they don't like. Seriously. One. Thing.

I don't belong to any party, but anyone who looks at this situation and tries to say that the side upholding the law is the one in the wrong must exist in a place apart from reality. There are some things the Democrats do that I don't like. There are some thing the Republicans do that I do like. In this particular case, there's very little the Democrats are doing that I disagree with and almost everything the Republicans are doing I disagree with. Not based on any particular party leaning or affiliation, but based on a black and white view of right and wrong, reality and fantasy, and governmental processes.
I don't care. Obamacare is a drop in the bucket compared to all the trouble this bipartisan hokum allows. There are some who feel the Democrats railroaded it in in the first place. Symptom of a larger problem. I believe in universal healthcare, but the fact that the government has largely shut down over it because the supposed smartest people in my nation can't reach some kind of compromise over it sickens. me

The point is that when one party can hold a one-sided majority they're holding the nation hostage whether they admit to it or not.

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2013, 01:16:35 PM »
I don't care. Obamacare is a drop in the bucket compared to all the trouble this bipartisan hokum allows. There are some who feel the Democrats railroaded it in in the first place. Symptom of a larger problem. I believe in universal healthcare, but the fact that the government has largely shut down over it because the supposed smartest people in my nation can't reach some kind of compromise over it sickens. me

The point is that when one party can hold a one-sided majority they're holding the nation hostage whether they admit to it or not.

So basically what you're saying is that you're willing to completely ignore facts (like the fact that the Democrats have offered over and over and over again to sit down with Republicans and work on the ACA if the Republicans will just pass a budget without strings attached to it) because the whole situation pisses you off? And the Democrats don't hold a one-sided majority. The House is controlled by one party, the Senate by the other, and all the President can do right now is try to urge them to do their jobs. Ultimately, he has 0 control over the situation right now... he's a figure head.

PS: I don't know who told you that our Government officials were the "smartest people in our nation", but they lied. That hasn't been the case since our founding.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 01:18:47 PM by Bloodied Porcelain »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2013, 01:20:41 PM »
So basically what you're saying is that you're willing to completely ignore facts (like the fact that the Democrats have offered over and over and over again to sit down with Republicans and work on the ACA if the Republicans will just pass a budget without strings attached to it) because the whole situation pisses you off? And the Democrats don't hold a one-sided majority. The House is controlled by one party, the Senate by the other, and all the President can do right now is try to urge them to do their jobs. Ultimately, he has 0 control over the situation right now... he's a figure head.
Wait, I'm sorry was Obamacare passed when the Democrats controlled the government? Oh, it was, and now that the shoe has changed foot it's the poor bullied democrats and the mean nasty republicans.

Larger problem. The one who has the power never wants to compromise that's my problem. If there was something as simple as large third party that means they can't cut it.

Yes, I understand that the Republicans are being bullies, but they're just doing what is always done when you've got two large sides.

EDIT: Please stop getting upset because you missed the part when I said supposed.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 01:22:14 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Shjade

Re: government shut down
« Reply #115 on: October 01, 2013, 01:29:46 PM »
You can blame the Democrats, you can blame the Republicans, but they're obviously symptoms of the larger problem. I urge everyone to vote for someone else. If there was no one-sided majority this couldn't have happened. Someone would have had to negotiate, compromise with someone else.

Actually, the problem is that the minority refuses to compromise with the majority, which is why they pull stunts like this: to get their own way without compromising for it with a big "fuck you" to anyone who doesn't like it.

When some psycho takes hostages during a bank robbery, you don't expect the police to just give him whatever he wants and let him go, much less get mad at them for not hurrying up just because you want them to reopen the bank, do you?

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #116 on: October 01, 2013, 01:34:27 PM »
Actually, the problem is that the minority refuses to compromise with the majority, which is why they pull stunts like this: to get their own way without compromising for it with a big "fuck you" to anyone who doesn't like it.

When some psycho takes hostages during a bank robbery, you don't expect the police to just give him whatever he wants and let him go, much less get mad at them for not hurrying up just because you want them to reopen the bank, do you?
Sort of my point. When you've got railroading power you don't have to compromise, and when that power inevitably leaves you and goes to the other person and they do the whole turnabout's-fair-play thing suddenly someone's being unreasonable.

One year its the republicans, the other it's the democrats. There's never not a majority holder, and that's the big problem.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: government shut down
« Reply #117 on: October 01, 2013, 01:41:15 PM »
Wait, I'm sorry was Obamacare passed when the Democrats controlled the government? Oh, it was, and now that the shoe has changed foot it's the poor bullied democrats and the mean nasty republicans.

Larger problem. The one who has the power never wants to compromise that's my problem. If there was something as simple as large third party that means they can't cut it.

Yes, I understand that the Republicans are being bullies, but they're just doing what is always done when you've got two large sides.

EDIT: Please stop getting upset because you missed the part when I said supposed.

Forty two attempts to repeal the law. Forty two. This is the LEAST productive congress in SIXTY years.  Not one measure with a sponsor from the Democratic Party has made it thru the House successfully. Period. NOT one. We were promised that talks would be had, we were promised no more brinksmanship. The Senate agreed to discuss and debate the issue but refused to be blackmailed by the House republicans. This is the same group whose self proclaimed job for the last three cycles was to ensure that the president didn't get reelected. Not to pass function job programs, reform the financial situation so we don't have another housing crisis but to prevent the president from getting re-elected. 

House Republicans have been trying for years to run a one party system in the House. You either follow along lemming-like or your 'anti-American'.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 01:56:12 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #118 on: October 01, 2013, 01:42:47 PM »
Wait, I'm sorry was Obamacare passed when the Democrats controlled the government? Oh, it was, and now that the shoe has changed foot it's the poor bullied democrats and the mean nasty republicans.

Larger problem. The one who has the power never wants to compromise that's my problem. If there was something as simple as large third party that means they can't cut it.

Yes, I understand that the Republicans are being bullies, but they're just doing what is always done when you've got two large sides.

EDIT: Please stop getting upset because you missed the part when I said supposed.

1: I'm not upset, and not really sure why you think I am. o.O Perhaps it was the "they lied to you", which I typed with a smile on my face. I dunno. Doesn't matter, moving on...

2: There is no majority holder right now, or are you overlooking that? Who was in power when the law was passed is irrelevent to the fact that right now the House is controlled by the Republicans, and the Senate is controlled by the Democrats.

3: I'd be all for there not being any parties involved and it just being a bunch of people doing what they think is best for those who elected them, but just like the whole "third party" dream, that's not likely to happen any time soon and wishful thinking doesn't get anyone anywhere right now.

Actually, the problem is that the minority refuses to compromise with the majority, which is why they pull stunts like this: to get their own way without compromising for it with a big "fuck you" to anyone who doesn't like it.

When some psycho takes hostages during a bank robbery, you don't expect the police to just give him whatever he wants and let him go, much less get mad at them for not hurrying up just because you want them to reopen the bank, do you?

^^^^This. Dems are offering repeatedly to compromise, but only after the economy and government are taken off the table as bargaining chips. Why? Because they shouldn't be used as bargaining chips in the first place. Basically, they want what is normally an easy, simple function that's essential to the running of government to go through so they can get it out of the way and sit down to work on the problem the Republicans are causing all this shit over... like intelligent and reasonable adults. For all intents and purposes, they don't have to offer that and they honestly in my opinion shouldn't, but they're doing it as a sign of good will to get the Republicans off the fucking ledge before they take all of us with them.

Offline Ebb

Re: government shut down
« Reply #119 on: October 01, 2013, 01:45:33 PM »
Both parties are a bunch of whiny children. They might as well be five-year-olds on the playground.

you are right both sides are acting like 5 year olds. what we need are compromising adults that can get the job done for the american people.

It is simply not the case that both parties are behaving equally badly in this instance. It is also not the case that this behavior on the Republican's side is no worse than things the Democrats have pulled in the past. This is qualitatively different, and an escalation that really is unprecedented. To dismiss what is going on with some notion that this is "tit for tat" or "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" shows an unwillingness to consider the facts.

Look, I understand being mad at the situation. I understand that the whole thing is frustrating. But failing to identify what makes this situation different from what has happened in the past is an invitation to a further degradation of the system.

Suppose you're in the drive-thru lane at MacDonald's. The guy in front of you orders his food, then pulls up to the window. You order your food and pull up behind him. Then the guy in front of you starts arguing with the cashier, saying that he should get two extra cheeseburgers without paying more money. Why? Because he likes cheeseburgers. His leverage is that he can sit there blocking the drive-thru lane during the busy lunch rush period. What are they going to do, call the cops? You're stuck there behind his car, not getting your food, and your lunch hour is almost over. You're justifiably pissed.

Is the correct response to:
A) Demand that the guy and the cashier compromise by just giving him one cheeseburger for free, so you can get on with your life?
B) Assign all blame to the guy and none to the teller?

It really is that black and white in this situation. What's easy and convenient is to declare a pox on both their houses. But it's simply not accurate or fair.


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Re: government shut down
« Reply #120 on: October 01, 2013, 01:49:53 PM »
It really is that black and white in this situation. What's easy and convenient is to declare a pox on both their houses. But it's simply not accurate or fair.

I think I might be in love with you right this second, Ebb.  ::)

Offline DTW

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #121 on: October 01, 2013, 01:56:01 PM »
The worst part about this is that certain moderate republicans have pointed out that the tea parties view on Obamacare makes no sense. If it's a bad law then why defund it? Won't it just collapse under it's own weight? No. The only reason you have to shut down the government because of Obamacare is that you think it'll work.

Even worse then that. By  shutting down the government , even if Obamacare does fail. No one will be focused on it.  The Main Stream Media is  now going to focus on  the shutdown.


This is as  Charles Krauthammer said last night on fox news a "Suicide Caucaus".

« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 02:10:21 PM by DTW »

Offline Bloodied Porcelain

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #122 on: October 01, 2013, 02:02:11 PM »
The worst part about this is that certain moderate republicans have pointed out that the tea parties view on Obamacare makes no sense. If it's a bad law then why defund it? Won't it just collapse under it's own weight? No. The only reason you have to shut down the government because of Obamacare is that you think it'll work.

Even worse then that. By  shutting down the government , even if Obamacare does fail. No one will be focused on it.  The Main Stream Media is  now going to focus on  the shutdown.


This is as  Charles Krauthammer said last night on fox news a "Suicide Caucasus".

There are also a lot of moderate Republicans saying that the shut down is a terrible idea and won't do anything but make the Republicans look bad. The issue here is that the Tea Party has enslaved their own party... if you're a moderate and don't tow their line, they just find someone even more conservative than you and have you ousted in the next election. =/ *sigh*

Online Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #123 on: October 01, 2013, 02:02:58 PM »
The worst part about this is that certain moderate republicans have pointed out that the tea parties view on Obamacare makes no sense. If it's a bad law then why defund it? Won't it just collapse under it's own weight? No. The only reason you have to shut down the government because of Obamacare is that you think it'll work.

Even worse then that. By  shutting down the government , even if Obamacare does fail. No one will be focused on it.  The Main Stream Media is  now going to focus on  the shutdown.


This is as  Charles Krauthammer said last night on fox news a "Suicide Caucasus".

What's the Caucasus got to do with the US?

Offline Avis habilis

Re: government shut down
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2013, 02:04:19 PM »
I think that was supposed to be "Caucus". Or they're all planning on committing mass suicide in Tblisi. Though probably the former.