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Author Topic: government shut down  (Read 13051 times)

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Offline MistermeTopic starter

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government shut down
« on: September 30, 2013, 10:40:08 PM »
Since its only the house of reps listening to the people and senate wants only what they want then i say shut the government

Offline ladyelizabeth

Re: government shut down
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 11:06:04 PM »
Well, it is a partial shutdown.  It will be interesting to see what comes of the future and the government.

Offline Kythia

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 11:12:16 PM »
What's this?

Offline ladyelizabeth

Re: government shut down
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 11:13:27 PM »
In the USA, the senate and House of Republicans have not agreed to a bill to help fund the government.  So technically the entire government is shut down.  However they have agreed to pay parts... so its considered a "limited" shut down.  I have no idea what it is going to mean just yet... but I guess we shall find out.

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2013, 11:14:49 PM »
The Tea Partiests have laid down an ultimatum that unless the ACA is defunded, they're going to refuse to approve the budget, which means that government workers get told not to come into work (and therefore get less pay) while the Congress continues to collect their salary.

Offline elone

Re: government shut down
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 11:16:52 PM »
Since its only the house of reps listening to the people and senate wants only what they want then i say shut the government

I think it is pretty optimistic thinking to believe that the House is listening to the people. Don't believe all the polls that say the majority is against the Affordable Care Act. When they say some 60% are against it, that includes the 15 - 20% who think it does not go far enough and that we should have a single payer system,  all of those who don't really understand what it means, and the many that have insurance and don't want to help fund those who don't. For those who are unable to get insurance it is a godsend.

Offline ladyelizabeth

Re: government shut down
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 11:17:30 PM »
Oniya is right.  It's ridiculous.  It hurts people and the economy not to at least fund the government.  IF anyone should be punished, they should fine the congressmen that haven't passed the situation and take away some of their comfort.  ><  *sigh*

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 11:18:37 PM »
For those who are unable to get insurance it is a godsend.

This, +9000. 

Offline Kythia

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2013, 11:32:00 PM »
In the USA, the senate and House of Republicans have not agreed to a bill to help fund the government.  So technically the entire government is shut down.  However they have agreed to pay parts... so its considered a "limited" shut down.  I have no idea what it is going to mean just yet... but I guess we shall find out.

I...

I have no words for that.  I think I read something about it on Jezebel now I'm making connections but just kinda skimmed it.  Honestly, I have more questions about that than I'm really capable of articulating.  "What the fuck" doesn't even come close to expressing it.

Offline Ebb

Re: government shut down
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2013, 11:47:44 PM »
The Washington Post (www.washingtonpost.com) has very good coverage of the shutdown, since most of their readership is directly affected. They're a for-pay site now, though, with limited free reads. Ezra Klein's column covers most of the interesting bits.

The short version is that a large group of Republicans in the House have decided to not submit a bill that funds government operations (normally, in past years, a purely procedural matter) unless that bill includes a proviso to limit or de-fund the Affordable Healthcare Act. As expected, the Senate has rejected all such measures. So we're in shutdown, which is causing very real financial difficulties to a great number of people around the DC area and nationwide.

The entire matter is a travesty. 800,000 federal workers will not be reporting for work tomorrow. Tens of thousands of 'essential' workers will be reporting to work without pay. Literally millions of other workers, including contractors and the like, will feel direct financial repercussions.

The only consolation here is that in the next election cycle people will correctly assign the blame for this fuck-up and vote accordingly. Unfortunately due to gerrymandered districts we won't see a proportionate change in leadership. But it's a start.


Here's a good summary of the whole situation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/washington-braces-for-the-first-shutdown-of-the-national-government-in-17-years/2013/09/30/977ebca2-29bd-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_story.html?hpid=z1


Offline Yugishogun

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2013, 11:52:05 PM »
The Washington Post (www.washingtonpost.com) has very good coverage of the shutdown, since most of their readership is directly affected. They're a for-pay site now, though, with limited free reads. Ezra Klein's column covers most of the interesting bits.

The short version is that a large group of Republicans in the House have decided to not submit a bill that funds government operations (normally, in past years, a purely procedural matter) unless that bill includes a proviso to limit or de-fund the Affordable Healthcare Act. As expected, the Senate has rejected all such measures. So we're in shutdown, which is causing very real financial difficulties to a great number of people around the DC area and nationwide.

The entire matter is a travesty. 800,000 federal workers will not be reporting for work tomorrow. Tens of thousands of 'essential' workers will be reporting to work without pay. Literally millions of other workers, including contractors and the like, will feel direct financial repercussions.

The only consolation here is that in the next election cycle people will correctly assign the blame for this fuck-up and vote accordingly. Unfortunately due to gerrymandered districts we won't see a proportionate change in leadership. But it's a start.


Here's a good summary of the whole situation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/washington-braces-for-the-first-shutdown-of-the-national-government-in-17-years/2013/09/30/977ebca2-29bd-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_story.html?hpid=z1

What really terrifies me is that if this doesn't cause proper change in who people vote for, what will?

Offline Kythia

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2013, 11:52:45 PM »
"The first shutdown in seventeen years" is kinda unbelievable as well, tbh.  Like, that's not an overly long time.  I remember Clinton.

But, yeah.  Thanks for explaining.  I don't really know what to say.  It seems very alien.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 12:00:44 AM »
"The first shutdown in seventeen years" is kinda unbelievable as well, tbh.  Like, that's not an overly long time.  I remember Clinton.

But, yeah.  Thanks for explaining.  I don't really know what to say.  It seems very alien.

Just woke up and waiting to see the headlines with these words fill the tv screen.  I agree this sounds very...American, or un-American?!

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 12:10:10 AM »
If this kind of stuff (including the budget ceiling waltz) is gonna go on regularly, headlines like "Bank of America rated Junk" aren't far away.

Offline Oniya

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 12:12:31 AM »
So we're in shutdown, which is causing very real financial difficulties to a great number of people around the DC area and nationwide.

The entire matter is a travesty. 800,000 federal workers will not be reporting for work tomorrow. Tens of thousands of 'essential' workers will be reporting to work without pay. Literally millions of other workers, including contractors and the like, will feel direct financial repercussions.

The only consolation here is that in the next election cycle people will correctly assign the blame for this fuck-up and vote accordingly. Unfortunately due to gerrymandered districts we won't see a proportionate change in leadership. But it's a start.


Here's a good summary of the whole situation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/washington-braces-for-the-first-shutdown-of-the-national-government-in-17-years/2013/09/30/977ebca2-29bd-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_story.html?hpid=z1

That headline is 'charitable' to say the least.  This situation, with the government threatening to shut down, has been going on for years.  We've already gone through a 'sequester', which is a direct cause of my current unemployment - not enough work means part-timers get cut, and the ones that work from home don't even get the benefit of a phone call or email telling them that they've been 'de-hired'.  Thankfully, we weren't depending on my income as much as we have in previous years, since Mr. Oniya is working, but now my resume has an official 'gap' in it.

Offline Vekseid

Re: government shut down
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 12:26:46 AM »
Since its only the house of reps listening to the people and senate wants only what they want then i say shut the government

Last week, it would cost me over a hundred thousand dollars a year to get 'proper' insurance in a state without a publicly subsidized system.

My life would be very different now, had I gotten treatment for my conditions in my 20's rather than my 30's. There would be no talks of donations on this site. I might not have given Elliquiy the attention that turned it into the place it is now - but the fact remains, lack of basic care has cost me a great deal of money, both directly and in terms of lost opportunities.

For all the corruption involved in this, the ACA does one unquestionably good thing: It unchains people's health from the corporations they work for. Republicans - and those who vote for them - have waged a war on the self-employed for decades, now. The ACA is the first break we get - and a desperately needed one.

But yeah - it's such a great idea to furlough the better part of a million workers, more than half of whom are involved with the Department of Defense in some manner. If this lasts longer than a week, members of the armed forces may not get their checks on time. That will be so popular.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: government shut down
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 12:34:46 AM »
Well there goes any chance of my Taiwan job going thru before the new year.

Offline Hue Ran

Re: government shut down
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 02:23:07 AM »
while the Congress continues to collect their salary.

Which is freaking ridiculous by  the way. Especially considering they don't do crap.

Offline Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 03:20:24 AM »
I was going to make a topic for this because it baffled me but when I went to bed last night it wasn't sure yet. Does this mean the FBI, NSA, CIA, etc will stop spying on us all?


On a more serious note, I cannot fathom that American politicians have let it come this far. From what I understand the Republicans wanted to agree with that fund raising if the Democrats delay Obamacare. That's a game you play in 5th grade. Can I have this, if I give you that? America was finally on the way out of the crisis from I heard. Jobs were growing again and the economy was growing slightly. That is all at risk now.

This should hurt the credibility of American politics, both democrats and republicans right?


Also, call me ignorant, but why is it so bad for all Americans to have a health insurance? Is it only because of that fundamental right to mind your own business?

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 03:43:51 AM »
I was going to make a topic for this because it baffled me but when I went to bed last night it wasn't sure yet. Does this mean the FBI, NSA, CIA, etc will stop spying on us all?


On a more serious note, I cannot fathom that American politicians have let it come this far. From what I understand the Republicans wanted to agree with that fund raising if the Democrats delay Obamacare. That's a game you play in 5th grade. Can I have this, if I give you that? America was finally on the way out of the crisis from I heard. Jobs were growing again and the economy was growing slightly. That is all at risk now.

This should hurt the credibility of American politics, both democrats and republicans right?


Also, call me ignorant, but why is it so bad for all Americans to have a health insurance? Is it only because of that fundamental right to mind your own business?

+20. Perfectly put, Dasha.

And then again, this is getting to look like a recurrent thing. Okay, it's the first actual federal shutdown in seventeen years, but the underlying dynamic in congress has been around and growing ever more strident since Obama took office nearly five years ago, or perhaps even since -2006?


Offline Valthazar

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2013, 04:04:23 AM »
America was finally on the way out of the crisis from I heard. Jobs were growing again and the economy was growing slightly. That is all at risk now.

The economy was doing well because the Federal Reserve was throwing money into the economy through bond-buybacks that were heavily subsidized through loans.  I don't know why this situation should come as a surprise to anyone - we all knew there was going to come a time when one political party would say "enough is enough" and put a stop to this false notion of a stable government that in reality, was operating heavily through debt.  Even if a budget had been decided, the services provided would still be funded via loans - which is only postponing the inevitable.

As far as the ACA - it has a lot of merit, but I'll support it when we can afford it.  When military expenditures are reduced, and our deficit is balanced, then we can discuss these things.  Whether or not it is something desirable for our society isn't the issue - it is whether we can afford it or not.

Edit:  I'm not suggesting a shutdown like this was the solution.  Like everyone else, I think our Congressmen are clearly not doing their jobs.  But simply stating that this shouldn't come as a surprise.  This shutdown is a disaster, and is only making things worse, and costing us $1 billion for each week this continues.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 04:11:59 AM by ValthazarElite »

Offline Florence

Re: government shut down
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2013, 04:44:49 AM »
Funny how the GOP calls everyone who disagrees with them America-hating terrorist-sympathizers and here they are, hurting Americans by using terrorism to get what they want.

I hope if there's anything anyone remembers come elections its this. Of course, on the downside, that means Democrats won't have to bring their A-game to win, and we'll probably see some pretty mediocre performances all around.

Offline Retribution

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 05:36:29 AM »
I work for the government in the president's home state. The state has run on a credit card for *thinks* 40 years or something like that. Now the reckoning has come here over the last decade or so. The state finally reached the point where you cannot borrow money to pay the debt on money you borrowed. A lot of this has come from corruption out of Chicago out of the Democratic machine. Essentially the machine buys off it's constituents by sending through pet programs that are not paid for. They get the money from other funds, say the hunting license fund that is supposed to go to state parks or what have you but is then diverted to this pet program. I have over simplified but you get the idea.

So on a personal level I have worked for the state for 24 years come January. Paid into my retirement and other bennies. The state government has taken that money I put in and not paid their share so the fund is broke. I -could- in theory retire in another ten years. This is after being nearly killed in the line of duty five documented times. And yes I can provide links in private to prove I have nearly been killed in the line if anyone would like to see them. The money put back for my retirement is not there and the state may in fact take my retirement.

I went through all of that to explain to our out of country friends that on the Federal level we are facing much of the same. The national government is heading down the same path and has been for some time across administrations of both parties. Something has to be done because like in my state there will eventually come a reckoning. I feel this personally as I have close family including my son who work for the Feds.

Having said that, the house GOP in my thinking has lost their fucking mind. Obama Care I am not sure fixes anything but it is the law of the land. It past, get over it and stop obsessing. I am anti gun control and I tell those who promote gun control that well the law and the constitution say it is this way so deal with it. I feel the same about Obama care, it passed, its the law of the land so deal. This throwing a temper tantrum is idiotic.

Offline Dashenka

Re: government shut down
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 05:57:23 AM »
The economy was doing well because the Federal Reserve was throwing money into the economy through bond-buybacks that were heavily subsidized through loans.  I don't know why this situation should come as a surprise to anyone - we all knew there was going to come a time when one political party would say "enough is enough" and put a stop to this false notion of a stable government that in reality, was operating heavily through debt.  Even if a budget had been decided, the services provided would still be funded via loans - which is only postponing the inevitable.

As far as the ACA - it has a lot of merit, but I'll support it when we can afford it.  When military expenditures are reduced, and our deficit is balanced, then we can discuss these things.  Whether or not it is something desirable for our society isn't the issue - it is whether we can afford it or not.

Edit:  I'm not suggesting a shutdown like this was the solution.  Like everyone else, I think our Congressmen are clearly not doing their jobs.  But simply stating that this shouldn't come as a surprise.  This shutdown is a disaster, and is only making things worse, and costing us $1 billion for each week this continues.


I don't think there is anything wrong with loaning money to stimulate the economy. That happens everywhere. Money makes money.

As for the other point... I guess that is a good point but what do Americans who cannot affort an insurance do now, when they need to go to hospital?

I'm not asking this to judge, I'm asking this because I generally don't know. I've spend three days in hospital in the Netherlands after surgery and I remember the costs being around $8000 for three days. That's why everybody in the Netherlands has a health insurance.


Funny how the GOP calls everyone who disagrees with them America-hating terrorist-sympathizers and here they are, hurting Americans by using terrorism to get what they want.

I hope if there's anything anyone remembers come elections its this. Of course, on the downside, that means Democrats won't have to bring their A-game to win, and we'll probably see some pretty mediocre performances all around.


Which side will this situation be bad for?

Offline MistermeTopic starter

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Re: government shut down
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 06:18:18 AM »
i can understand all of the opinions expressed on here and none are wrong. The house has tried to compromised several times but the senate would not budge. My question is why? did they solely want nothing but all of obamacare  to to take affect today? did they want the house to crumble? do they even care about the people? so many questions and very few answers.