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Author Topic: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)  (Read 4764 times)

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Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2013, 04:58:24 AM »
Time answer some questions....

  A few questions. 

  Are you going to allow flaws and racial paragon classes from Unearthed Arcana? 

  If I played a war forged, would there be sexiness to miss out on?

I would rule out flaws not be allowed, but I allow racial paragon classes from unearthed arcana. However no wargorfed racial classes there though :P. However I will add a house rule what I have grown fond off; you gain feat at every pairless level. Meaning you gain feats at 1st, 3th, 5th, 7th and so on levels. Overall feat gain from 7 increases to 10 in twenty level progression.

Now what comes to sexyness and such as warforge; in normal standard model you cannot experience physical pleasure at all. Closest you can get pleasure in fullfilling a function through sexual act. However I allow you can self-modify in taking levels in Reforged prestige class. The 3th level would allow transform your bodies to a point you are capable to physical pleasurable acts. I know it's 3 level in a class which gives no direct bonus to your base classes (like add casting levels to cleric or such). But it would allow you have sex as warforge and be so more sensitive to life and gain double bonus (meaning you can benefit from repair and cure spells equally and also gain greater bonus with moral stuff). Of course you still look like warforges because darkwood parts do not go off but otherwise you lack most metal components at this point and be so 'organic' constructs.

I've got a question, as well.

Would there be any objections to me playing a Ghost? ^^; There's an online savage progression that would let me get away with just losing one or two levels, if you'll allow it, or I'd be willing to take the full +5 LA template if the online progression looks too powerful.  I could use the Ghostly Grasp feat and a Hat of Disguise to pass for normal, as well.

Backstory-wise, I'm thinking the character would probably have been on a battlefield in Cyre when the Day of Mourning happened, though I'm still undecided on which side she would have been fighting on.

I allow you play as a ghost, a Cyran ghost would make very much sense and if you take 3 levels in progression your reason can be simple as 'I cannot find rest until reason what caused Mourning is discovered and one who ruined Cyre is punished'. Your char could even know Vandros from his time as commander (or his time in war academy or his time while he studied blacksmith work under father's guidance).

Overall though approved the concept.

Zaer, you are playing a marshal?!  No one EVER likes that class!  With that taken and Muse going artificer, I think I will go Warmage for at least 4 levels to give us some light firepower.  Maybe even Mystic Theurge, though that would leave me with no skill points.

True that Dragon Shaman is perhaps better support class than marshal is but I do like overall the Marshal class as it's literally works better in groups and makes natural leader type. Bard or other social classes can fill the role and bard can provide aid with bardic music but it cripples bard who could be casting spells instead.

Marshal gives much nothing away when he uses auras around him and so it leaves only how to make Marshal useful in combat besides standing there. So I plan dig through Marshal Handbook for all sorts of lovely cheesy ideas :D. Anyways Warmage makes perfectly sense and take note that in PHB II introduced that you can learn utility spells with advanced learning (but you would need live with fact that they are +1 level higher in your list which is both hindrance but also boost when it comes resisting someone trying dispel your utility stuff). So Warmage could learn Fly spell as 4th level spell. With one or two artificers around and their UMD pools they can provide utility casting through wands and scrolls and they can also make them.

Check Warmage Handbook for ideas how stick as pure warmage or what feats to take.

I'll post tentative interest, based on the other types of characters that show interest and whether or not I realistically have time for this game.

I'm thinking I'll play a battle-hardened, elite veteran of the Last War, either a Knight Arcane/Phantom of Aundair or a Karrnathi Bone Knight. Depending on what everybody else wants to play and whether or not the rest of the party will get along with a Bone Knight.

Either concept is okay with me, however you need explain why a 'elite warrior' from given nation is living as a 'drifting mercenary' on a airship which questionably is living off without doing any traditional dragonmark house business. Class wise no problem but both classes are considered deeply tied to loyalty of their nation and if either one is considered as traitor they are hunted down mercilesly (which in itself can give interesting RP times if airship goes to Aundair or Karrnath and one crew member needs duck low and keep low profile or else get arrested and executed).

But if wanting full BAB + spellcasting, then Duskblade would be perfect for Aundair 'mystic knight' sort of deal.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2013, 07:23:14 AM »
Some great resources, Zaer.  I am currently leaning toward a Spellwarp Sniper, which I didn't see mentioned in the Warmage guide at all, but I'm okay with it not being among the best choices.  I just like the way it feels.  Besides, with a Marshal improving our initiative rolls, I should get plenty of chances to catch folks flat footed.

I am currently working a male human character, Rogue 1, Warmage 5, Spellwarp Sniper 2.  Consider your ranged damage role filled. 

EDIT:  Can we make the rolls on E, where they are logged and everyone can see them?  Invisible Castle is too easy to cheat against.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 07:37:20 AM by kckolbe »

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2013, 11:04:54 AM »
Invisible Castle rolling I asked you use your username as same exact way how it's typed in E. Meaning I cannot go make 'Zaer Darkwail' and then getting sucky stats and then re-rolling with 'zaer Darkwail' or 'Zaer darkwail' or 'zaerdarkwail'. As I also asked the rolls done must have 'Ironman' tag, which means the stats were not re-rolled by the user.

But overall I am fine using E roller also but I myself had never figured out how to make stat rolling smoothly in E. What comes to your Spellwarp Sniper; I do find it odd it was not included although it's included in Complete Mage guide for blasters. As a tip besides depending on 'win iniative' you can get foes flat-footed by;

1) Be Invisible
2) Learn Distract Assailant via Advanced Learning as 2th level spell (can get it in 6th level as warmage)
3) Turn foe blind or otherwise unable to see or detect coming attacks
4) Best one; Use Invisible Spell metamagic feat

Offline kckolbe

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2013, 11:08:56 AM »
You can go to invisible castle and roll.  Then, if you don't like it, you can close it out, re-open and roll again.  It will still say ironman.

I will probably go for invisibility to get my sneak attack, though flanking also allows it, if I recall, and I just need to be within 30 ft.  I'll try rolling on E, though if that doesn't pan out the point buy is pretty doable.  Will update this post with roll results.

49981   kckolbe   At 2013-09-11 11:10:34, kckolbe (uid: 6919) rolls: 5d6k3 Result: 11
49980   kckolbe   At 2013-09-11 11:10:28, kckolbe (uid: 6919) rolls: 5d6k3 Result: 16
49979   kckolbe   At 2013-09-11 11:10:22, kckolbe (uid: 6919) rolls: 5d6k3 Result: 10
49978   kckolbe   At 2013-09-11 11:10:16, kckolbe (uid: 6919) rolls: 5d6k3 Result: 15
49977   kckolbe   At 2013-09-11 11:10:07, kckolbe (uid: 6919) rolls: 5d6k3 Result: 18
49976   kckolbe   At 2013-09-11 11:09:58, kckolbe (uid: 6919) rolls: 5d6k3 Result: 15
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 11:11:45 AM by kckolbe »

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2013, 11:18:10 AM »
Flanking is possible and there is in PHB II a feat which allows 'ready action' to launch ranged attack and get benefit from sneak attack. Another nice spell is 1st level one which allows a unlimited sneak attack distance.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 11:26:07 AM »
I don't mind my char getting his hands a little dirty.  He is, after all, almost surrounded by tank types should things go south.  A couple of questions for ya:

Any skills seem necessary to sign on as a pilot?  I took survival and spot, but not sure what else.  Also, know of any magical items that add to the attack roll or damage of ranged touch attacks?

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2013, 11:35:07 AM »
I need check my sources but I am sure I saw in Drows of the Underdark pair of gauntlets which aided in sneak attacks some fashion. Anyways the ship has already NPC pilot but if you do plan become a pilot of the airship in this game (and so not count to the 4 player char limit) you need to be human or half-elf from Lyrandar house with a lesser dragonmark (and preferably with level Windwright Captain PrC for obvious reasons for the 2th level feature which I allow have come in 1st level instead).

Offline kckolbe

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2013, 11:43:13 AM »
Ah well, was worth a shot.  I guess I'll count toward the player limit. 

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 01:49:09 PM »
I allow you play as a ghost, a Cyran ghost would make very much sense and if you take 3 levels in progression your reason can be simple as 'I cannot find rest until reason what caused Mourning is discovered and one who ruined Cyre is punished'. Your char could even know Vandros from his time as commander (or his time in war academy or his time while he studied blacksmith work under father's guidance).

Overall though approved the concept.

I was thinking I'd be Brelish, actually. ^^; A captain in the Brelish military who was engaged in a battle inside the borders of Cyre on the Day of Mourning, her body is now lost somewhere in the Field of Ruins in the Mournlands, just another corpse that's impossible to pick out from among the several thousand scattered about.

Still, having suffered such a sudden, unnatural death, it would still make sense for her to be unable to rest until she discovers what caused the Mourning.  Gaining vengeance might be a little more optional, but getting her body back for a proper burial would also be a strong focus, I think.

Anyway, now for my follow-up questions:

The full Ghost template says that the Ghost character gets to select up to three of the special abilities listed for the template.  If I were to take the full template, rather than the online progression, would I get to select any three abilities I wanted, or would you prefer if I selected my abilities in the way that the online template does, instead?

Also, if I take the full template, would I be allowed to select alternate abilities from other sources for my character?  I'm specifically considering selecting Telekinesis and Malevolence, from the standard monster manual Ghost template, and then the Illusion special ability from page 151 of Libris Mortis, which would give me the ability to use Major Image at-will.  This would give me a combination of three very potent abilities, but the trade-off would be that I would be starting with only 3 hit dice, so I don't think it would be overpowered. ^^;

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 02:22:52 PM »
I am okay with Brelish captain :).

Now, if you take full template instead savage species progression I let you choose the powers as you want, if taking progression one you pick the ghostly powers as listed in the progression table. I am also okay if you take major image at-will as one your powers.

Online Lockepick

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 02:35:46 PM »
Hey! Tossing my had in the ring as being generally interested!

I'm always a fan of playing 'Tool Box' or 'Skill Monkey' characters. I usually go Rogue for that (without prestige), but I could take a look at Spellthief if that is more fitting for the campaign.

I'd be willing to apply for the 'Mechanic' position -- but is the mechanic listed separate from the rest because he doesn't go on the 'away' missions? If he doesn't, I guess I'd rather be more of a 'field engineer' than a mechanic. Being the son of the pilot, PC or NPC, works fine for me.

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 02:50:04 PM »
Well, the mechanic slot is separated from the PC cast role but if a PC takes role of the mechanic, then said mechanic can escort them on missions and such. However you need artificer skills to be considered 'mechanic' in airship in Eberron. So very least need 50% or so levels as artificer and then rogue if you want rogue skills.

Online Lockepick

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 03:44:41 PM »
Ah. Well seems like Artificer is already pretty common, I guess I'll just try to settle for a Toolbox Rogue as one of the 4 slots -- if they're still available. A dash of 'Use Magic Device' should patch any holes that not having magic skills would cause.

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 04:00:26 PM »
If you want to be ultimate toolbox, factotum class from dungeonscape would be perfect class for it. If not want go rogue+Chameleon PrC route (note; changeling's qualify for the feat needed for that PrC).

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 04:57:11 PM »
I'd like to second the recommendation for the Factotum class.  It was literally built from the ground up to be a 'toolbox' class, right down to having every skill in the game as a class skill. ^^

I am okay with Brelish captain :).

Now, if you take full template instead savage species progression I let you choose the powers as you want, if taking progression one you pick the ghostly powers as listed in the progression table. I am also okay if you take major image at-will as one your powers.

Alright, good to get those questions answered. ^^ Now then, that leaves me with two potential build options I'm considering...

The first option makes use of the Ghost online progression.  2 levels of Dungeoncrasher Fighter from Dungeonscape, 2 levels of the Ghost online progression, picking up Telekinesis, then 3 levels of other classes to help me meet the prerequisites for 1 level of Master of the Unseen Hand, from Complete Warrior.  This is a build I've tried before, and it usually winds up being quite powerful.  Fighter's armor and shield proficiencies combined with the Ghost progression giving me a Charisma-based deflection bonus gets me AC somewhere around 30, with a pretty high Touch AC, as well.  I could work in 2 levels of Paladin and get high saves, and having a 30 ft. fly speed with perfect maneuverability means that I won't have to worry about mobility, either.  As for attack options...  Well, Dungeoncrasher damage and telekinetic bull rush make for a potent combination.

The second option is to use the full Ghost template, with the three abilities I mentioned and 3 class levels that I'm still a bit undecided on.  With only three hit dice I'll be a lot more vulnerable, but in addition to Telekinesis, I'll be able to possess people and toss out all sorts of realistic illusions.  This is probably the lower-powered of the two options, but it will give me a little more utility, as well.

Which of the two do you guys think I should go for?

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 05:11:02 PM »
Or just go from Factotum into Chameleon, since that's something that they can very much do (and excel at if they stay in Factotum until level 8, when they get to spend Inspiration on Standard Actions, and take Font of Inspiration a couple times). Chameleon actually greatly helps solve one of the Factotum's biggest problems, which is making itself consistently useful in combat without Iaijutsu cheese or exceedingly overpowered/boring spell choices for Arcane Dilettante.

@Kunoichi: While if Zaer is willing to handwave it I see no problem with doing so, by RAW a character with a savage progression is not allowed to take levels in anything else until they complete their savage progression. If he's not willing to handwave it, then Ghost will be your last two levels and you'll just have to deal with the next three being more Ghost. That being said, I would definitely go with the first option. Having 3 Hit Dice will make Zaer's life as a DM very hard; you'll be able to walk all over anything that can't affect you while ethereal/incorporeal, but anything that CAN will rip you apart in about two seconds. My group had a similar problem in a campaign we did where one of our players was a Pixie (they have always-on invisibility).

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 05:32:08 PM »
@Rhaegar: Actually, the online savage progression I'm using works according to slightly different rules. ^^;

Quote
Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession. For example, a character who takes a level of wereboar could then take a level of fighter and a level of rogue (or any other combination of other class levels) before taking another level of wereboar. A character must still take the first level of wereboar before taking the second, just as with a normal class.

Thus, for these online progressions, at least, I can get away with starting out with just 2 levels in the progression.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 07:19:51 PM »
Stat rolls for character. (5d6.takeHighest(3)=11, 5d6.takeHighest(3)=14, 5d6.takeHighest(3)=12, 5d6.takeHighest(3)=15, 5d6.takeHighest(3)=13, 5d6.takeHighest(3)=11)

...And having rolled some rather below-average stats, it looks like I'll be taking the 34 point-buy option for my character. >>;

Offline kckolbe

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 10:29:27 PM »
Ah. Well seems like Artificer is already pretty common, I guess I'll just try to settle for a Toolbox Rogue as one of the 4 slots -- if they're still available. A dash of 'Use Magic Device' should patch any holes that not having magic skills would cause.

We only have one artificer, which is Muse's warmage, who is planning on Artificer 7/Fighter 1

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »
*Rolls Ability Scores.*

Yeeeaaah... with three 9s, a 12, and a 13, I'll be going point buy.

I'm kind of torn on how to build, though. I don't want to put together some unholy Wizard gish and be horrendously overpowered, but I will miss the utility magic that the Duskblade simply doesn't have. I'll probably end up going Wizard 5/Warblade 1/Knight Phantom 2, and pulling my punches a little on spell/class feature selection.

Offline Muse

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Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2013, 01:39:04 AM »
I had switched to just Artificer 8.  But it looks like mine and L una's concpet has been somewhat ruled out, since I'm not allowed to simply just alter us as part of the fluff, ubt instead need to take three levels in a class to have those alterations. 

I'll take a look at the class.  Maybe it won't interupt the war forged and cleric progression enough to make us useless. 

Edit: 

This is what I had, by the way: 
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=653844

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2013, 03:45:10 AM »
*Counts.* We haaaave... six players. And nobody interested in the Pilot. That's a small issue.

I could do something with a Windwright Captain... *Ponders.*

Offline kckolbe

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2013, 07:37:50 AM »
Actually, lockepicke might make a good pilot as well, since he likes skill types.  Muse could be the mechanic (since he is an artificer).  Muse, as for your idea, you don't really need to be more human.  With the spells your and Luna's char both have access to, and our fairly generous starting gold, you guys could have some item that makes you able to get sexy for periods of time.  Polymorph is only a 4th level spell, after all, which both your and Luna's char could cast.  In short, there are ways we can get all 6 of us in game.

By the way, writing up my char's bio as a deserted from Karrnath.  That sound doable to you, Zaer?

Online Lockepick

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2013, 08:09:39 AM »
I took a look at the suggestions, but I feel like both Factorum and Chameleon are basically giving me half-spell casting at the cost of skill points, and Sneak Attack: the only thing that makes a toolbox viable in combat.

If the four regular roles are filled up, I'd apply for the pilot, but I guess I'm worried about him not being involved in 'missions' or whatever. If he's still perfectly involved, I'm fine with going for pilot.

Online Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Eberron Bepop (3.5 edition DnD)
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2013, 09:54:29 AM »
Kunoichi: I am fine with either one, but going full template is perhaps better as even if you are group of mercenaries (and so get involved in fights) but considering Eberron as merc you can be involved jobs where utility or social skills are needed. So playing by as full templated ghost with 3 HD gives more utility (and nice powers) but same token your vulnerable (but also with via AP boosting your level roll you can be hard to kill permanently).

Muse: The reforged class does not really 'add' or 'continue' features to either artificer nor cleric. Closest 'power gamey' approach with warforge who goes reforger is that if he was a bard who specialized on social situations. Which neither you nor Luna are. Reason why I lock the whole sexual aspect behind a PrC is to emphasis how 'big' the 3th level change in that PrC is. I am not against warforges having sex but me as GM I demand something more than 'I just strap dildo into my body frame and play it's like mine' approach. As warforges having sex is major leap in their species perspective (if speaking sex as; able get physical enjoyment from it). But warforge can use dildos or other physical activity to stimulate and give pleasure to others but unable receive it. Only reforger is able to pull off the change needed to able enjoy sex same way as living normal humanoids do (and have any interest for such as reforger is practically warforge who wants experience emotions like normal humanoids do and it sounds Muse's and Luna's chars both fit profile perfectly).

Side note; Alter self would allow change your form but the form must be a living construct version of the said species. So you would look 'robotic' even when you use it to turn into a orc. Where as polymorph is less limited and would be doable.

Rhaegar14: Windwright Captain progresses spellcasting in 1st level and it asks profession (pilot) 10 ranks and rest skills can be bought with cross rank levels (balance and UMD). So any class which provides profession skill (or gain skill via a feat) is viable. So you can be a full caster or gish build and still qualify to be Windwright Captain. Only other demand is lesser (not least) dragonmark of Storm and qualify for it (means your race must be half-elf; I thought humans also qualified but it seems they don't although Lyrandar house has both humans and half-elves). I suggest you check dragonmark related builds for casters and here is Dragonmark Handbook just for relating how to get most out from dragonmarks.

kckolbe: Muse char's can be mechanic although I originally intended mechanic to be related by blood to the captain but I am fine with that the mechanic is not 'must be related' sort deal. Anyways the deserter background is okay for me and char from being Karrnath, despite GMPC is cyran and so has general dislike to all five nations military people, but he does not have blind hatred to everyone and rather may had grown bond to you guys during two years.

lockepick: Toolbox can be viable in combat without sneak attack. The tier system places factotum above rogue when it comes being skill monkey and toolbox because factotum as naked vs a armed rogue will win the fight both combat and skill wise across all levels. You just need play smart with factotum more than just with rogue. Example factotum can use alter shape to take form of octopus (alter self mimicked spell) and do multiple sneak attacks with tentacles (they can mimic sneak attack feature with font points as I recall or that they added Int to dmg or otherwise had means get lots of dmg).

But do not plan to force feed rogue, spellthief or factotum to you; just play what feels comfortable :).

Clarification: In the original post I wrote that pilot, mechanic and the captain all are NPC's, the captain specially being GMPC (meaning compared standard NPC I treat him as player character of mine and may be in spot light along with you guys and be actively on missions while NPC's stick on the ship). However, if players pick up roles as pilot and mechanic (I originally wanted mechanic be related to pilot but after consideration it's not a must have, so any artificer will do and pilot is strictly tied to be half-elf with dragonmark of storm and one level in windwright captain), then pilot and mechanic both can be involved on adventures or missions actively (besides pilot just piloting the ship or mechanic taking only care of the ship).

Reason why I listed pilot and mechanic as NPC's was that both are needed for the airship to have any functionality. But if players pick them, they get to play those chars same way like rest do (and not chained to stay in the airship).