You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 10, 2016, 01:03:02 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.  (Read 35523 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #325 on: April 02, 2015, 08:35:17 AM »
Replacing teeth with ones made out of gold for no reason other than to do so. ( Apparently it was common back then as a sign of wealth. )

The practice is still happening today (or at least being imitated.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #326 on: April 02, 2015, 12:26:28 PM »
I can understand someone using gold or silver for that. But cheap metal for a bit of oral bling?

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #327 on: April 02, 2015, 05:37:02 PM »
Well, by 'imitated', I meant that they aren't (necessarily) removing teeth and replacing them.  It's just a cap to make it look like they've got a gold tooth/teeth/dentures/whatever.  I would just hope that whatever metal they use is something that doesn't tarnish, regardless of cost.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #328 on: April 16, 2015, 01:33:39 AM »
1.) Exposure to monotheism

During Muhammad's lifetime, how much exposure did the polytheist Arabs have with Christians and Jews?  I understand that the latter two religions have a long presence in the Middle East, but I was wondering how novel the idea of there being only one God would have been to them when Muhammad stated what he learned from the angel Gabriel.

2.) The apostrophe in 'Qu'ran'

A thing I notice is that when the Qu'ran is referred to as a noun, it has the apostrophe.  But when used as an adjective ("Quranic verses," for example), the apostrophe is lost.

Not really a religion question, more one regarding grammar.

3.) Book Publishers

So a quick Google search showed up several publishers of the Qu'ran, hadiths, and other Islamic texts.  Darussalam, Minhaj-ul-Quran, and  Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an are some of the first entries.  I did notice that Darussalam showed up multiple times.

In regards to modern copies of the Qu'ran, how 'centralized' is the making process in regards to publishing?  Do most Islamic governments copy and issue their own books, or do they rely upon publishing companies to create and distribute them?  Is Darussalam a really huge publisher, or does it just happen to have more of an Internet mark in the English-speaking world?

Offline Mikem

  • *Cancer Survivor*
  • Permabanned
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: In the damp and dreary Pacific Northwest
  • Gender: Male
  • No labels. I'm a Man and that's all that I am.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #329 on: April 16, 2015, 01:56:45 PM »
I'd like to know why women of the religion (or born into, married into), are forced to wear full body coverings, where only their eyes and hands are visible, and why they don't actively fight against this. Men can wear whatever they want, but women have to wear black robes that cover every inch. It's all kinds of unfair and maybe even a bit harsh, sexist, and oppressive. I've seen plenty of women like this even in my home area of Western Washington state. I can't see what the harm is for the women to at least leave their heads exposed, let their hair down, unless the Men have a serious problem themselves about it.

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #330 on: April 16, 2015, 02:01:41 PM »
2.) The apostrophe in 'Qu'ran'

A thing I notice is that when the Qu'ran is referred to as a noun, it has the apostrophe.  But when used as an adjective ("Quranic verses," for example), the apostrophe is lost.

Not really a religion question, more one regarding grammar.


As a partial answer, the apostrophe is a glottal stop, the Arabic noun has one, the adjective doesn't.  The precise declension of Arabic nouns, though - I have no idea.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #331 on: April 16, 2015, 02:35:44 PM »
1.) Exposure to monotheism

During Muhammad's lifetime, how much exposure did the polytheist Arabs have with Christians and Jews?  I understand that the latter two religions have a long presence in the Middle East, but I was wondering how novel the idea of there being only one God would have been to them when Muhammad stated what he learned from the angel Gabriel.

During Muhammad's life in Madinah , Several Jewish tribes also lived in the same town. It is also said that Muhammad's direct neighbour was a Jewish man. While a feud did exist between the Muslims and the Jews during that time , many historians said that Muhammad tried to be the pacifist and even if a Muslim initiated hostility , Muhammad was the first to apologize on his behalf.

But that is only what historians say , not me.

As for Christians , I never read about any Christians living within the Arabian Peninsula during Muhammad's time. Or not in any indicated majority anyway. Before Muhammad called for Islam , the Peninsula's inhabitants were either Jewish or idol worshippers.

It is also important to note that Islam's god is the same as Christianity & Judaism. The difference is , for the lack of a better word , practice of the religion itself.

2.) The apostrophe in 'Qu'ran'

A thing I notice is that when the Qu'ran is referred to as a noun, it has the apostrophe.  But when used as an adjective ("Quranic verses," for example), the apostrophe is lost.

Not really a religion question, more one regarding grammar.

As a partial answer, the apostrophe is a glottal stop, the Arabic noun has one, the adjective doesn't.  The precise declension of Arabic nouns, though - I have no idea.

What Kythia mentioned is correct. Its just to signify the pronunciation of the word. Now I am no linguist , so I cannot provide a good explanation to this.

Also the Q in Qur'an , isn't exactly a Q. Its a thicker sound that has its own letter in the Arabian Alphabet. So the Q is the closest letter to it in the English Alphabet.

3.) Book Publishers

So a quick Google search showed up several publishers of the Qu'ran, hadiths, and other Islamic texts.  Darussalam, Minhaj-ul-Quran, and  Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an are some of the first entries.  I did notice that Darussalam showed up multiple times.

In regards to modern copies of the Qu'ran, how 'centralized' is the making process in regards to publishing?  Do most Islamic governments copy and issue their own books, or do they rely upon publishing companies to create and distribute them?  Is Darussalam a really huge publisher, or does it just happen to have more of an Internet mark in the English-speaking world?

Printing and distributing the Qur'an isn't a very profitable process. It costs a lot , but when you want to buy a Qur'an is almost less than 1.50$ in my country. I heard it can be more expensive elsewhere but I cannot confirm.

And Darussalam is a grand publishing establishment for Islamic literature materials. Since they're located in Egypt , I really do not know much about them. But there's also the Qur'an complex here in Saudi Arabia which prints and distributes millions of copies for most of the Islamic world. Since it is funded by our government , profits aren't a concern , nor the expenses.

As to other countries , publishing the Qur'an? I suppose there is some kind of establishment or that in other countries. I just wonder who would fund such a project since it hardly raise any benefits. Aside from spiritual joy I guess?

Its alright for anyone to publish the Qur'an as long as they do not change anything in it. Since it was mentioned in Qur'an that whoever twist the words of God will suffer in hell for eternity. ( Looking at you ISIS. )

I hope this helps answer your questions. ( Been suffering from allergy so I am typing this with runny eyes and nose and a killer headache. )

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #332 on: April 16, 2015, 02:42:23 PM »
I'd like to know why women of the religion (or born into, married into), are forced to wear full body coverings, where only their eyes and hands are visible, and why they don't actively fight against this. Men can wear whatever they want, but women have to wear black robes that cover every inch. It's all kinds of unfair and maybe even a bit harsh, sexist, and oppressive. I've seen plenty of women like this even in my home area of Western Washington state. I can't see what the harm is for the women to at least leave their heads exposed, let their hair down, unless the Men have a serious problem themselves about it.

Islam only state that a woman should cover up in the presence of a stranger man. The reason behind it so that men would not be tempted by women.

However , relating to the early years of Muhammad's life , women weren't forced to cover their faces. At least some incidents indicates to that.

The black cloak seems to be more of a tradition than an actual religious practice. There is no text in the Qur'an that states it literally. Only that a woman should cover up from other men to avoid temptation. And to be honest that is a whole can of worms that I do not think would be wise to delve into. Because the fact that everyone says its religious would make whatever I say as pointless.

More importantly , even in my country here , Saudi Arabia , more women are dropping the facial cover. So ... things are changing ... I guess.

While I hope this clarify your inquiry. I do hope we do not extend the discussion in this thread if what Islam states is sexist or not. It would be better if another thread is created for that purpose.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #333 on: April 17, 2015, 07:11:54 PM »

Its alright for anyone to publish the Qur'an as long as they do not change anything in it. Since it was mentioned in Qur'an that whoever twist the words of God will suffer in hell for eternity. ( Looking at you ISIS. )


Just an idle and minor follow-up question to this - I've been following the thread silently - but I know I've seen somewhere that in some circles even a translated copy of the Qur'an is considered to be 'false' in some way, and only one written in the original Arabic counts as a true and unaltered copy of God's words. Does this attitude actually exist, and how prevalent is it?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #334 on: April 17, 2015, 09:35:54 PM »
Just an idle and minor follow-up question to this - I've been following the thread silently - but I know I've seen somewhere that in some circles even a translated copy of the Qur'an is considered to be 'false' in some way, and only one written in the original Arabic counts as a true and unaltered copy of God's words. Does this attitude actually exist, and how prevalent is it?

Well , When a Muslim is doing the prayer , he is required to recite a few verses of Qur'an in every Rak'ah. ( Please refer to this post for more details. ) However , the recital must be in Arabic. { Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.} Verse 2 , Sura 12.

In this verse it is mentioned to be an Arabic Qur'an. So everyone tied the language to the basic Daily Islamic practice that a Muslim must do every day. Keep in mind there is not a single verse in Qur'an that specify that it should be recited in Arabic during prayers.

It just became a standard that the recital of Qur'an during the prayer must be in Arabic. And that is how it is all over the world I assume.

But past this point where several groups have their own opinion. You can read a translated of Qur'an. I mean if Arabic isn't your native tongue , you need to learn what it says at first. Some are tolerant towards this aspect , and some are not.

In my country , its always recited in Arabic and read in Arabic. Most preachers of Islam who travels abroad to spread the religion would provide a translated copy of the Qur'an , based on where they're travelling. So , it kind of tolerable from us. But most Imams will tell you that you gain no virtues or Hasanat from reading Qur'an in a different language. So you can learn about it first , but then to gain the benefits of reading it , you should do it in Arabic.

Now I've heard , and I never seen or experienced it myself , but in some regions across the world , it is as you said where any copy of the Qur'an that isn't an authentic Arabian copy , would be shunned and deemed false. In some extreme parts , they would considered it a sin and an insult to God.

I think its foolish to force someone to learn the language before learning about the religion from its grandest source.

But I believe most people who insist on keeping it as purely Arabic as possible are trying to maintain the purity of the verses. Since languages differ in many ways , some meanings and sentences may lose their intended message. ' Lost in Translation ' , maybe ...?

So to shorten this post. The attitude you mentioned could exist. Just nowhere I've been to.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Offline Wajin

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #335 on: April 18, 2015, 05:25:49 AM »
Well , When a Muslim is doing the prayer , he is required to recite a few verses of Qur'an in every Rak'ah. ( Please refer to this post for more details. ) However , the recital must be in Arabic. { Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.} Verse 2 , Sura 12.

In this verse it is mentioned to be an Arabic Qur'an. So everyone tied the language to the basic Daily Islamic practice that a Muslim must do every day. Keep in mind there is not a single verse in Qur'an that specify that it should be recited in Arabic during prayers.

It just became a standard that the recital of Qur'an during the prayer must be in Arabic. And that is how it is all over the world I assume.

But past this point where several groups have their own opinion. You can read a translated of Qur'an. I mean if Arabic isn't your native tongue , you need to learn what it says at first. Some are tolerant towards this aspect , and some are not.

In my country , its always recited in Arabic and read in Arabic. Most preachers of Islam who travels abroad to spread the religion would provide a translated copy of the Qur'an , based on where they're travelling. So , it kind of tolerable from us. But most Imams will tell you that you gain no virtues or Hasanat from reading Qur'an in a different language. So you can learn about it first , but then to gain the benefits of reading it , you should do it in Arabic.

Now I've heard , and I never seen or experienced it myself , but in some regions across the world , it is as you said where any copy of the Qur'an that isn't an authentic Arabian copy , would be shunned and deemed false. In some extreme parts , they would considered it a sin and an insult to God.

I think its foolish to force someone to learn the language before learning about the religion from its grandest source.

But I believe most people who insist on keeping it as purely Arabic as possible are trying to maintain the purity of the verses. Since languages differ in many ways , some meanings and sentences may lose their intended message. ' Lost in Translation ' , maybe ...?

So to shorten this post. The attitude you mentioned could exist. Just nowhere I've been to.

I hope this helps answer your question.

I know of at least one Imam here in Denmark who preaches in Danish and who allows prayers in Danish, for the simple reason that he thinks the old practices of staying Arabic to be silly. I kind of agree with him, but I respect people like my grandfather who says that it is better in Arabic. Danish and Arabic are strangely compatible though, or the translator did one hell of a good job. A friend of mine studies Islam and Arabic studies at the University of Aarhus. He's been looking at the whole Qur'an verse by verse in Arabic and Danish and have found remarkably few passages where the translation is lacking in explanation. I read the Qur'an in Danish and Arabic as a child, though I have to admit, after not practicing my Arabic reading for nearly a decade, I don't think I would be able to again. I do also own the Qur'an in Farsi, as it was a gift from a cousin.

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #336 on: April 18, 2015, 08:43:56 PM »
Did Mohammed sin?

I'm phrasing that in rather Christian terms but I hope you understand what I mean.  In essence, is there any part of Mohammed's life that isn't a role model/inspiration to Musims.  Or, I dunno, if one were to live one's life entirely by the entirety of Mohammed's example, would there be any parts of which Allah disapproved?

Also a side question, and I recognise this is a rather personal one so for the avoidance of doubt I realise you can only speak for yourself, Formless, not for every single Muslim in the world - what's the etiquette around me as a non-Muslim using (PBUH).  Should I?  Shouldn't I?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #337 on: April 18, 2015, 10:05:06 PM »
Did Mohammed sin?

I'm phrasing that in rather Christian terms but I hope you understand what I mean.  In essence, is there any part of Mohammed's life that isn't a role model/inspiration to Musims.  Or, I dunno, if one were to live one's life entirely by the entirety of Mohammed's example, would there be any parts of which Allah disapproved?

Mohammad , never committed a sin. Well none that was documented by any holy scripture. But he committed a ' wrong deed '.

The first 12 verses of the 80th Sura in Qur'an was considered a ' divine scolding ' at him for what he did.

Basically Mohammad was sitting with some of Quraish's grand leaders , whom were heathens at the time , but agreed to listen to Mohammad and consider converting. But then a blind Muslim man by the name of Abdulla Ibn Omm-Maktoom. The blind man was asking Mohammad to ' tell him more about Islam and god's wills '. However , Mohammad was more eager to speak to the people he was with in hope he can convert them , and was ignoring the blind man. And since the blind man wasn't aware of whom Mohammad was with , he asked again , and again. Mohammad at some point frowned and kept ignoring the blind man. Till he received the world of God , in a form of scolding for ignoring a helpless man who would benefit more from talking to him , rather than the others whom Mohammad was paying much more attention to.

So , he may have never committed a sin , but he did a few things wrong in his life. Hence how god would point it out when he did so.

And in an Islamic sense , Prophets in general , do not sin. Or so we're told.

Also a side question, and I recognise this is a rather personal one so for the avoidance of doubt I realise you can only speak for yourself, Formless, not for every single Muslim in the world - what's the etiquette around me as a non-Muslim using (PBUH).  Should I?  Shouldn't I?

I honestly don't see any problem whether you use it or not. I mean if you used it ,  it actually mean you respect my religion which I would appreciate very much. But if you haven't , its not an issue at all.

I hope that answers your questions. :-)

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #338 on: April 18, 2015, 10:50:56 PM »
For Muslims who have occupations which require frequent plane travel (and thus travel to different time zones), are there any special considerations done for the five daily prayers in terms of frequency or consistency?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #339 on: April 18, 2015, 11:04:19 PM »
During travelling , A Muslim can combine two prayers in one setting , and shorten them as well.

Example , if someone travels from the west coats to the east coast in the US. During his stay in the east ( As long as it isn't permanent or a very extended stay ) he can combine the second and third prayers together every day. And the fourth and fifth prayers together.

The second can be shortened from 4 rak'ahs to 2. The same applies to the third & fifth prayers as well. The fourth prayer cannot be shortened since it consist of three rak'ahs only.

Now in case of a big time difference in time zones. Let's say between Australia & the Middle east. ( Around +7 hours ). Now if a prayer's time occur during the flight between the two mentioned locations. Then a Muslim can do the prayers before leaving , or after they arrives. And they can do the combination and shortening as well.

I hope that answers the question?

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #340 on: April 19, 2015, 03:42:40 AM »
Mohammad , never committed a sin. Well none that was documented by any holy scripture. But he committed a ' wrong deed '.

...

And in an Islamic sense , Prophets in general , do not sin. Or so we're told.

So could Mohammed have sinned?  Is it physically possible for a prophet to sin and they just don't, or is there some part of being a prophet that renders them impeccable? 

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #341 on: April 19, 2015, 11:35:43 AM »
So could Mohammed have sinned?  Is it physically possible for a prophet to sin and they just don't, or is there some part of being a prophet that renders them impeccable?

I honestly don't know.

I mean the three holy religions ( Judaism , Christianity & Islam ) Were all taught to humans through a prophet.

So with that process in mind , I don't think a prophet would commit a sin since he's being taught said religion by God.

That's what I think though.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #342 on: April 25, 2015, 01:21:29 AM »
1.) Minarets:  A lot of modern pictures show them as tall, thin spires, but is there any restriction from simply making them look like a more general tower?  The Wikipedia article shows quite some variety in the designs, but the majority look quite narrow in proportion to the rest of the building.

2.) Universality of the title Allah: As Allah is the Arabic name for God, I notice more than a few Muslims in English-speaking countries (both immigrants and those born in said countries) prefer "Allah" as opposed to "God."  What of non-Arab Muslims in places such as Pakistan, Indonesia, etc?  Is Allah still the preferred title, or do they use a variation of their own language's translation?

I understand that this question likely has as many answers as there are languages in the world, but I wanted to know if preference for 'Allah' is mostly language-based or has broader connotations.

3.) Intoxicants, hallucinogens, and drugs: Have there been Quranic verses and hadiths covering addictive drugs aside from alcohol?  The verses I read seemed to approach alcoholic beverages as a societal problem which harms the people who consume it, and was wondering if this line of thought extended to similar substances as well.

4.) Prayer Etiquette: I recall several weeks ago on Saladin Ahmed's Twitter account him visiting a literature conference in the United Arab Emirates.  Before making the trip he was asking about proper etiquette when the call to prayer comes in that country.  I do not have the Twitter link in question, and it's been a while so I may not remember all the details, but the gist of it is that there's different standards of behavior for what to do when it comes.

Apparently in some Islamic nations when the call comes residents stop whatever they're doing and perform the salat immediately.  Some countries have Muslims perform the salat at the next convenient opportunity, for example if in a busy street.

4.5.) Or for a more localized question: Muslims of E, what does your nation/community typically do when the call to prayer comes?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 01:37:14 AM by Skynet »

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #343 on: April 25, 2015, 03:32:18 PM »
1.) Minarets:  A lot of modern pictures show them as tall, thin spires, but is there any restriction from simply making them look like a more general tower?  The Wikipedia article shows quite some variety in the designs, but the majority look quite narrow in proportion to the rest of the building.

Well , the purpose of a Minara ( or Manarah. singular ) Is for the Mo'athen ( The one who calls for prayer ) to climb to the top of the Manarah , and call for prayer loudly in different directions. Back then there weren't any microphones , so they depended on the basic physics of sound.

But in modern times , I think they just maintain the classic architecture of mosques by keeping them narrow. But the Minarets in the Holy mosques in Makkah and Madinah are thicker in comparison , but still too narrow to be a tower. So I think its just a way to keep the old look of mosques is why they're kept narrow. There aren't any restrictions that I know of.

2.) Universality of the title Allah: As Allah is the Arabic name for God, I notice more than a few Muslims in English-speaking countries (both immigrants and those born in said countries) prefer "Allah" as opposed to "God."  What of non-Arab Muslims in places such as Pakistan, Indonesia, etc?  Is Allah still the preferred title, or do they use a variation of their own language's translation?

I understand that this question likely has as many answers as there are languages in the world, but I wanted to know if preference for 'Allah' is mostly language-based or has broader connotations.

First of all. God has 99 names. 98 of them are virtuous feats of humans used as names for him.

For example when you read the Qur'an , or hear someone reading it. They always start with this sentence

[ Bism Ellah Arrahman Arraheem ]

Which translates to " In the Name of Allah , the compassionate , the merciful. "

There's three names of Allah in that sentence alone.

The strange thing is. Allah does not have a meaning. if you break down the word it would be :

Al = The \ Lah = there is no Arabic meaning for this word. But Allah is a name.

Which makes me think that every Muslim prefers to say Allah because its more ... personal? I mean I can call him ' Al-Jameel ' , which means ' The beautiful '.

But still , everyone prefers to call him Allah because it gives him a distinct identity. Or so I think. If anyone would like to add in their opinion based on their country , that would be nice.

3.) Intoxicants, hallucinogens, and drugs: Have there been Quranic verses and hadiths covering addictive drugs aside from alcohol?  The verses I read seemed to approach alcoholic beverages as a societal problem which harms the people who consume it, and was wondering if this line of thought extended to similar substances as well.

This will be answered in the next post as it contains some controversy.

4.) Prayer Etiquette: I recall several weeks ago on Saladin Ahmed's Twitter account him visiting a literature conference in the United Arab Emirates.  Before making the trip he was asking about proper etiquette when the call to prayer comes in that country.  I do not have the Twitter link in question, and it's been a while so I may not remember all the details, but the gist of it is that there's different standards of behavior for what to do when it comes.

Apparently in some Islamic nations when the call comes residents stop whatever they're doing and perform the salat immediately.  Some countries have Muslims perform the salat at the next convenient opportunity, for example if in a busy street.

4.5.) Or for a more localized question: Muslims of E, what does your nation/community typically do when the call to prayer comes?

In Saudi Arabia. Once the call for prayer is heard. Everyone would close their shops and get ready for prayer.

Of course Muslims do not need to go to the mosque immediately. But they have to attend when the ' Iqamah ' is called for. Which is the call that announces the beginning of the actual prayer.

In Saudi Arabia as well , you don't need to go to a mosque. For example if you're in a huge mall as a foreigner. And you hear the call for prayer , you might see people rolling the prayer carpets in the mall's highways and line up on them and quickly do the prayer together. You'll see all shop owners and workers lining up and praying. And as soon as they're done, they'll roll the carpets up and get back quickly to their shops. Even if the mosque outside the mall has not yet started the prayer.

However , in the urban areas and private districts , you'll see everyone going to the mosque. ( Well not everyone. You'd be surprised at how many of the youth do not attend prayers ... at all. ) Its all different based on an area.

And I've been to UAE , and it was interesting to see that some close their shops and some leave them open. I guess closing or opening shops during prayer is more of an individual decision there since they're more tolerant when it comes to practicing Islam.

Now as for the rest of theworld. I can't really say.

Hope these answers your questions.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #344 on: April 25, 2015, 03:54:57 PM »
3.) Intoxicants, hallucinogens, and drugs: Have there been Quranic verses and hadiths covering addictive drugs aside from alcohol?  The verses I read seemed to approach alcoholic beverages as a societal problem which harms the people who consume it, and was wondering if this line of thought extended to similar substances as well.

Drugs are forbidden in Islam by ' The rule of comparison '.

there's a practice in Islam in which they base the ' modern ' things to older ones , based on origin , effect and social impact. The ones allowed to do such things are Sheiks and religious scientist of a great caliber in their field. ( Yes , they call them religious scientists. ::) )

Of course , its interesting to say that in the Qur'an itself ... there's a few different ways of saying that Alcohol is bad. But nothing literally says its forbidden.

{They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought.} Verse 219 , Sura 2.

In this verse. The Qur'an says that Alcohol drinking is sinful , yet have a benefit. So ... Is it forbidden or not? It seems as if this verse brings caution rather than say that its forbidden.

{O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.} Verse 90 , Sura 5.

Followed by :

{Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?} Verse 91 , Sura 5.

In these two verses , it is mentioned that Drinking Alcohol is part of Satan's influence. But the last part of verse 90 says to avoid it. Again , there was no direct order to forbid it.

But Verse 91 says that Satan wishes to corrupt us by making us do what is said in verse 90.

From that , Muslims gathered that it is better to forbid it. There are countless Hadiths that forbids them. But as I said in many posts , I will only relate to the Qur'an in this thread.

But then comes this verse :

{O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah, except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.} Verse 43 , Sura 4.

This verse basically explains when a Muslim cannot do the prayer due to ' impurity '. You're not allowed to attend prayer while being intoxicated. Why? Based on the verse , because one are not aware of what they're saying or doing. ( Simply put , Prayer is a spiritual connection with god so when the mind is absent , its pointless )

And I believe from this verse exactly that the forbidden became prominent. And based on it , any drug that relieves the mind of its awareness , is also forbidden. Except for Anesthetics since they are required for medical procedures.

But the controversy stems from the way that Alcohols are forbidden during prayers , and not in any other time. As there was no direct order from God himself. And since Muslims have so many sects , some would deny a prophet's hadith at this time and age. But most Muslims refrain from consuming it because they grew up being taught that its forbidden.

This is a general way of explaining it. Again , I could get beheaded for this post as well as other ones. ::)

Hope this clarifies your inquiry.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #345 on: April 25, 2015, 08:44:35 PM »
{O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.} Verse 90 , Sura 5.

This is a general way of explaining it. Again , I could get beheaded for this post as well as other ones. ::)

Hope this clarifies your inquiry.

It does; and this answer ends up bringing another question.

For the bolded part, were altars ever a big theme in Islam for religious rituals and ceremonies?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #346 on: April 25, 2015, 09:17:46 PM »
Before and during the days of Mohammad and before the expansion of the Islamic faith , some people would sacrifice animals before a grave of a righteous man or for their idols that they worship. Now as for the specific use of altars. I'm not sure. I never read about anything of this sort ...

Offline kylie

  • Bratty Princess of Twisty, Creeping Secrets. Frilly | Fussy | Framed | Dreamy | Glam | Risky | Sporty | Rapt | Tease | Ironic | Shadowed | Struggling | Whispery | Bespelled
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Somewhere in the future.
  • Darkly sweet femme for rich & insidious scenarios.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #347 on: April 26, 2015, 08:12:17 AM »
... Again , I could get beheaded for this post as well as other ones. ::)


     I'm sorry, but for those of us who just can't resist the morbid curiosity:  Are you being serious, or facetious here?  Is anyone in Saudi (it was Saudi, right?) actually conducting official beheadings over what one posts about the religion - particularly on foreign websites?

     I do recall the days when Salman Rushdie was having quite a time of hiding out, but I think that was at the dogging of someone from the Iranian side of things.  Anyway, yes I'm curious.

     

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #348 on: April 26, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »
I am being serious. People here do not take kindly to someone pointing loopholes in the faith.

My saving grace is that I am not being obnoxious about it. Nor am I demanding that people believe or followwhat I say. But that still doesn't protect me.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #349 on: April 26, 2015, 12:49:17 PM »
     I'm sorry, but for those of us who just can't resist the morbid curiosity:  Are you being serious, or facetious here?  Is anyone in Saudi (it was Saudi, right?) actually conducting official beheadings over what one posts about the religion - particularly on foreign websites?

     I do recall the days when Salman Rushdie was having quite a time of hiding out, but I think that was at the dogging of someone from the Iranian side of things.  Anyway, yes I'm curious.

There are at least three members from Islamic countries who fear for their lives visiting this place. It was the primary impetus behind making this site https-only. There are other benefits, but getting a PM from a woman asking what she should do to be safe is a bit chilling.

I'm debating on turning off IP access, and probably should, even.