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Author Topic: Falls over laughing  (Read 5742 times)

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Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2013, 07:20:18 PM »
Would her comment have been funny if the person was attempting to have her sign a pamphlet for abortion rights, gay rights, environmental causes, etc etc.?  Would I suddenly have humor impediment if that was not found to be funny by me? 

People aren't ignoring this comparison because they just aren't getting it, Pumpkin. It is false. It is a wrong comparison. That's why it isn't working. Repeating it with escalating frustration will not change that.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2013, 08:21:42 PM »
I didnít allude; I stated he is a victim.   And no this doesnít have anything to do with him specifically being Mormon other than peopleís jokes about Mormons that followed her post.  This has everything to do with him being viewed as religious.  He did not even share his views or preach any belief to her.  Once more if he had come up to talk about any other belief that was non-religious then this incident wouldnít have occurred or at the very least she wouldnít be here bragging.  Also she didnít just stop him from preaching; she went further and purposefully made a joke out of him in front of her friend.  She set out to ridicule him and then considered it funny enough to continue the ridicule on a forum site.

As for people approaching me against gay rights, I donít agree with them and certainly I get annoyed being interrupted.  At the same time I wouldnít consider this my place or anyone elseís to mark them out for ridicule.  They have the right to speak just as I have the right to say, I donít want to hear this and walk away. 

Also Cyrano, if what Iím stating is false then please tell me how this is a false comparison.  One person preaching a religious view point and another preaching a non-religious view point, yet one deserves ridicule and the other does not.  Be my guest to explain why religion gets signaled out.

Offline Shjade

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2013, 08:33:36 PM »
It isn't because he's viewed as religious, it's because he's anticipated to proselytize.

Your comparison is flawed because the factions with which you are making comparisons don't, in general, go out recruiting random people to join their cause. There are ads for support in general, but you won't see people going door to door to give people lectures on the merits of gay marriage, for instance.

Rather, if you want to make a comparison of a non-religious group getting this kind of treatment, a more sensible one would be telemarketers: they call you at home unsolicited to try to sell you things you very likely don't want or care to hear about.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2013, 08:37:56 PM »
'Hey, baby, what's your sign?'

'Do not enter.'

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2013, 08:40:38 PM »
Well that is false Shjade.  There was recently a piece on NPR about a group for gay marriage going door-to-door to garner support in each state to begin passing laws.  I, myself, participated in a door-to-door activity to promote clean air with carbon fume reduction engines when I was in college.  I have had several people knock on my door since moving into this neighborhood to talk to me about everything from gay rights to school loans.  Oddly enough a religious spokesman has never approached my doorstep.  So I find that rationale into my comparison being wrong to be false at its foundation.  There are non-religious organizations that go door-to-door to solicit support and engage people of differing opinion.  Just wait till an election season.

And no, if you read her post it pretty blatantly states that he looked Mormon and she was prepared to make fun of him for her friend.

Offline Serephino

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2013, 09:00:15 PM »
He looked Mormon, yes.  Then he opened his mouth and removed all doubt.  That part you seem to conveniently forget.  As for your comparison, I've heard people brag about doing similar things to sales people, which really is much more similar, and other people laughed.  They are intrusive, and annoying as all hell.  No one who had been ear raped by a Mormon who wouldn't take 'shut up and go away' for an answer is going to see this guy as a victim.  They are hellbent on saving your soul whether you like it or not. 

Also, I don't like it when anyone knocks on my door to try to convince me of something.  In my state you can choose your electric supplier, and those people call me and annoy the crap out of me.  Would I do the same to one of them?  If I could think of something clever, yes. 

Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2013, 09:20:35 PM »
If I could think of something clever, yes. 


Ha!

(Sorry, been haunting the thread rather than responding due to the frustratingly cyclical nature of the discussion, but that truly made me snort, kudos Sereph)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 09:24:04 PM by Braioch »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2013, 09:29:19 PM »
It isn't because he's viewed as religious, it's because he's anticipated to proselytize.

Your comparison is flawed because the factions with which you are making comparisons don't, in general, go out recruiting random people to join their cause. There are ads for support in general, but you won't see people going door to door to give people lectures on the merits of gay marriage, for instance.


This, so this.

Quote
Rather, if you want to make a comparison of a non-religious group getting this kind of treatment, a more sensible one would be telemarketers: they call you at home unsolicited to try to sell you things you very likely don't want or care to hear about.

"Eh, thanks, but I buy all my underwear in London" is one I slipped to a telemarketer calling at 8 p.m. wanting to sell "subscribed underwear",  that means boxers and panties a package every two months.  ;) The UK is some way from here, but it worked as a stopper line.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2013, 09:29:41 PM »

Also, I don't like it when anyone knocks on my door to try to convince me of something.  In my state you can choose your electric supplier, and those people call me and annoy the crap out of me.  Would I do the same to one of them?  If I could think of something clever, yes. 


Tell them you're going geothermal as soon as the paperwork goes through.  If they ask how, ask them if they've heard of Centralia and nod knowingly.

Offline Shjade

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #84 on: September 07, 2013, 04:08:55 AM »
Well that is false Shjade.  There was recently a piece on NPR about a group for gay marriage going door-to-door to garner support in each state to begin passing laws.  I, myself, participated in a door-to-door activity to promote clean air with carbon fume reduction engines when I was in college.  I have had several people knock on my door since moving into this neighborhood to talk to me about everything from gay rights to school loans.  Oddly enough a religious spokesman has never approached my doorstep.  So I find that rationale into my comparison being wrong to be false at its foundation.  There are non-religious organizations that go door-to-door to solicit support and engage people of differing opinion.  Just wait till an election season.

Okay, in that case, for those specific groups, if they came to my door and were insistent on going through their spiel even after I said, "Not interested," I might give them a stinger as well before I shut the door, just like I would for anyone who's bothering me at home unasked. Because frankly, at that point, I don't care what your cause is, they're all equally bothersome.

Would I feel a need to make some public post about how clever I was at their expense? Probably not, no. But then, I'm clever at other people's expense all the time; if I stopped to post about every instance of it I'd never have time to be clever at the expense of even more people.

Offline Rogue

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #85 on: September 07, 2013, 11:42:10 AM »
The difference being forgotten is location. When my roommate answers the phone she says, "Roadkill Cafe, you kill them we grill them, could I have your order?" to get rid of most telemarketers. When there are people I don't know on my porch I can tell them to go away, have done so many times before. When someone approaches me at a bus stop when I'm waiting for a bus, I can't leave until they go away. Well I could, but it would mean me missing my bus. Therefore, clever comeback. If a Pro/Anti abortion person came up to me with a pamphlet, I simply say "No thank you", because declining a pamphlet is EASIER than declining to talk to a person. It's not seen as rude. Declining to talk to someone, especially people as persistent as most religious people are (especially ones  that harass people at bus stops) is difficult. Much better to ask them if they believe in another Mythological creature. This either, opens up a clever debate or shuts down the conversation. That he handled it so awkwardly is his own fault and therefor the joke.

I just thought it was clever that she didn't say, "I can save 15 percent or more by switching to Geiko???" and made a relevant joke.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #86 on: September 07, 2013, 01:56:07 PM »
Also Cyrano, if what I’m stating is false then please tell me how this is a false comparison.

I already did in my first reply to you a couple of pages back. But I shan't repeat it, as I see I've been pre-empted by other, better arguments in the meantime.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2013, 06:13:46 PM »
Here's a new spin on the topic. If some stranger came up to you all starry eyed and tried to bait you with some corny catch phrase or question in order to ultimately tell you about how the world was flat, would you not laugh at him for being so horribly misinformed?

Its not the same a laughing at someone for being mentally retarded or for making a simple mistake. These religious folks, presumably of average intelligence, have been duped into believing all sorts of ridiculousness. I mean nonsense that requires you to depart with logic in order to believe. When they approach with their spiel, I'm sorry, but its comical.

If you try to convince me that the planet Niribu is about to crash into the earth, that the world will end on some kooky date like 2012, or that you can fly but may not show me out of humility or something, you WILL be laughed at.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 06:20:26 PM by TaintedAndDelish »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #88 on: September 07, 2013, 08:11:12 PM »
Hereís the difference between you and I Tainted.

I am tolerant and respectful. You are not.

I am secure enough in my beliefs that I do not feel the need to ridicule someone else for theirs or for practicing what they believe (which witnessing is something Christians believe in). I am compassionate enough that I do not want to hurt those around me just because of their beliefs. I find no pleasure in ridiculing others. I find no joy in other peopleís embarrassment/pain/suffering.

I actually believe in being not only friendly to those of opposing beliefs but in being hospitable to them. I find that being kind goes a lot farther than being immature, nasty and rude.

It actually disturbs me to see so many intolerant people around here. And yes, it is intolerance when you canít live and let live. Disagree with others, but keep it civil. Donít seek to embarrass/harass/ridicule/hurt others just for your own personal amusement.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
I find no joy in other people’s embarrassment/pain/suffering.

It's "suffering" to encounter a mild joke, now?

Listen to yourself. To hear you talk you would think this poor guy had been sexually assaulted or something. This is just wildly and completely over-the-top. It's the kind of rhetorical overreach that cheapens actual suffering.

(I don't much care for Whiggish rhetoric about religion being "ridiculousness" either. [Sorry, Tainted.] But come on, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that other people in the world make jokes. I find it incredible that this news is giving you such a case of the vapors.)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 09:12:05 PM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #90 on: September 07, 2013, 09:33:55 PM »
I'm with Cyrano on this one.

Honestly it isn't as if she pants the man and proceeded to mock him for his faith in God. She deflected the man's attempts at engaging her in a discussion she did not want to have with humor. She did not ridicule him, she did not mock him, she made whimsy. Some want to mention that there is a lot of disrespect for religion around here, despite the fact that I have seen a majority of respect for other religions on here, and yet, what the definition of disrespect seems to be getting wider and wider everyday. A completely innocent joke to deflect what would have been a very long winded and well rehearsed speech about god and the saving of a soul, has now turned the OP into someone who ridiculed and defamed?

I'm sorry...what?

Oh, and we're no longer allowed to view a belief as ridiculous?

Really?

-ponders that-

Because frankly, if someone were to tell you that they believed a god of cupcakes would one day descend and rain happy cake and pies upon the earth for those who did its bidding, you would find it ridiculous. Just because your beliefs have been around for awhile doesn't make them immune to others finding them ridiculous. If you guys are so secure in the belief that your beliefs aren't ridiculous, than by all means, one person saying they are shouldn't matter. I personally find them ludicrous, hell I find my previous beliefs in the afterlife ludicrous, does me looking askance at my past self for believing make me disrespectful?

Where do we get to draw the line between critically looking at something and being disrespectful? Where's the point where logic and rationality get to have a say and question things without being called rude or disrespectful?

Offline kylie

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2013, 09:41:00 PM »
Hereís the difference between you and I Tainted.

I am tolerant and respectful. You are not.

I am secure enough in my beliefs that I do not feel the need to ridicule someone else for theirs or for practicing what they believe (which witnessing is something Christians believe in). I am compassionate enough that I do not want to hurt those around me just because of their beliefs. I find no pleasure in ridiculing others. I find no joy in other peopleís embarrassment/pain/suffering.

I actually believe in being not only friendly to those of opposing beliefs but in being hospitable to them. I find that being kind goes a lot farther than being immature, nasty and rude.
     Maybe I am missing something, but to me this sounds rather unnecessary if not mean.  At the least, it's turning into a retort of "Oh, but I'm really offended at what you did!  So I must be right about the whole, original issue!"  Are you really trying to say that calling someone worse than "immature, nasty, and rude" is an example of how you are morally required to be "friendly" to everyone of different beliefs, whatever stripe?  That is how that post comes off to me, and you know, I'm not feeling it.  Now moving on already , what of the reasons you claim for your offense?  You just said hospitality requires you to deal with everyone nicely.  Okay, whatever does that mean then?  That defends on how you define civil and hospitable.  Wherever is there a border between being reasonably civil and getting on with living your life and pursuing your own private goals, space, and time?  I'll argue that if in fact there is a border, then hey, people are going to pick some fun at things that get in their way.

    The assumption that picking fun at a person's platform automatically  means personal insecurity does not weigh up for me.  People do not only make light of things because those things disturb a core belief somehow; they also sometimes make light of things they cannot easily change but find to be impractical, and detrimental to a good life.  If you say planting hedge rows on my lawn is something you believe is morally imperative and I can do nothing to stop you without assaulting you (or some other act either illegal or against my standards), then it's your problem if you're offended by my dry humor about that situation...   I'm doing the best I can, under the circumstances.  Are you suggesting that just to be civil, I should instead stand quietly "observing" and perhaps trying to learn from your position all afternoon, while you go on taking over my lawn?

...Likewise, we may not be able to push the Mormons away from our doorsteps immediately without hurting them or saying very threatening things to them (they stand as far inside as possible, the ones that have visited me -- a case of give a civil inch, lose a private mile).  We can't stop them from repeating the same line day in day out, no.  They can walk through public space (unless we live in gated communities -- and I wonder how many Mormons prefer to?) and knock on people's doors.  But we can poke fun at it and try to make it more interesting, since they're placing demands upon our time and attention anyway.  It's our time too, and they wanted to talk to us

If you want to toss around that whoever complained must be intolerant by default, then why aren't they "tolerant" enough to take a joke?  Is their religion, or their public dignity really so fragile that one dry joke from someone who is bombarded with their messages as a matter of course, is all it takes that you're offended?  Why, in that regard I would say that organized, "Of the Book" sort religions have a whole lot of political capital in the US, whereas private citizens -- particularly those living in rented apartments with easy public access in densely populated areas, where it is simple and efficient for the evangelists to go door to door -- have very little weight with big political outfits, tax breaks, etc. at all.  It's much easier for them to impose upon me (at least in the US or Japan), than the other way around.   

      We're talking about the Mormon church, whose proselytizers are sometimes known for returning again and again, on a regular basis -- regardless of whether it is breakfast or dinner hour (and here it might just be regardless of a public place where people need to wait for the sake of getting home), regardless of whether others have taken their literature already or not, often regardless of others saying "Thank you, that will be enough for today now please leave." 

     What would "hospitality" require then?  What if I say, okay, if you do not let every campaigner who shows up at your door day in and day out in for an hour's hearing, then you are being rude and intolerant and I can't stand it?  Or, if the same campaign keeps reappearing all around you, maybe 3 or 4 times a week when you have told them "thank you, no" more than once, are you still obligated to thank them for coming and wait until they finally move back far enough that you don't catch their nose with the closing door?  You know, they often don't move back until you have listened to them for at least 15 minutes yet again...   

     As far as the attempt to play "what if" with more liberal and fact-based, or social issue causes (which I do think is an important difference in itself, but anyway):  Perhaps it's historical coincidence that evangelizing religions have gained some political standing and causes such as gay rights do not have the standing to feel comfortable bothering anyone quite this regularly -- or maybe it's more that gay rights champions know they are not likely to convince people in certain demographics and they pick their battles (more often favoring public demonstrations or at least more fence-sitting areas to canvas, etc.) so they don't end up so infamous on that score. 

In any case, I don't think gay rights on the whole is a movement with a similar reputation for persistently attempting to indoctrinate people on their own doorsteps, and particularly when those people have already said more or less directly, "No thank you, now I've noticed you were here and heard why, your turn now, please go away and don't come again.  And if you can't manage that, then certainly not three times in a week."  However, the Mormons to some extent do have the reputation for very persistent advances on private residences, and I believe they have done a good deal to earn it. 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 09:43:41 PM by kylie »

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #92 on: September 07, 2013, 10:26:04 PM »
when this Mormon comes to me and my co worker

My first issue - the assumption that the man in question was a Mormon. There is nothing stated to show for fact that the person in question was, in fact, a Mormon. Was it because he was dressed in the slacks, white shirt and tie? That does not mean he was Mormon. If that 'dress code' shows definite proof of being a Mormon then I work in a building full of Mormons. Slacks, white shirt and tie is standard professional business attire. Was he carrying a Book of Mormon? The OP doesn't say. Does the OP live in an area heavily populated by Mormons so that she knows with nothing more than a look who is Mormon and who isn't?

The way this reads it is judging a book by it's cover. Something I find to be distasteful.

Quote
we are both atheists so we were not in the mood to hear their we love us some Jesus speel

This statement sets the stage. The assumption was already made of who this man was and what he was going to do. It reads that both the OP and her coworker immediately went on the defensive before the man even opened his mouth. At this point they didn't even know for sure that he was coming over to try and witness to them.

From there it dissolves into her trying to do what she can to make the man uncomfortable and I really do not understand why. Is it that flipping hard to say "Hey, thanks but no thanks. Have a good day!" ? Are so many of us incapable of simply brushing off unwanted attention politely? Yes, I've heard of worse from others. By and far what she did is extremely mild when compared to what others do... but the point remains. It was immature. It was unnecessary. I do not find 'jokes' at the expense of someone else funny. I certainly do not find it humorous that she felt the need to come on here and brag about it. THAT is what gets my goat.  I don't care what you say, seeking approval for judging someone else, making assumptions and trying to make a joke of someone else's beliefs is despicable.

Now then. To answer - Do I think that my opinion on this whole debacle is right? Well, it's my opinion, and the beauty of opinions is... we've all got one that we all think is right. As my father has always said, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. The reason I am posting my opinion? For the simple hope that maybe, just maybe, the next time something like this comes up someone would actually stop and think before adopting the defensive attitude and seeking to make fun of someone else & their belief. Not a one of you can tell me that the simple phrase "No thank you." is too hard to say.

Quote
You just said hospitality requires you to deal with everyone nicely.  Okay, whatever does that mean then?

It means that I give of myself. My time, my home, my food, my drink. Whatever I have that someone else may be in need of. If someone approaches me and wants to witness I give of myself - in such a case it would be my time. I strive very hard to be open and friendly, I'll even sit and talk with them if I have the time. Why? One, I find it fascinating what other people believe. Two, because I believe in giving of myself. If I do not have time or I am simple not in the mood to hear it a simple "Thank you but no thanks" works wonderfully. I have never in my 40 years had anyone witnessing for Christianity/Mormonism/what have you persist after politely and firmly stating "thank you but no thanks". I actually, from my personal experience, find your assertion that the ALL Mormons invade doorways and hold everyone hostage to be nothing more than silliness. I've never had these kind of experiences. If nothing else I've had very polite Mormons - they don't crowd my doorway, they don't force their conversations and I've never had a pair show back up after telling them no thanks. Hell, I have freaking groups wanting me to sign polls and crap returning over and over and over. Not Mormons.

Quote
What would "hospitality" require then?

Already answered.








Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #93 on: September 07, 2013, 10:41:07 PM »
So because you give your time so freely to people because you find other's beliefs interesting, you expect the same of others?

And whether or not he is a Mormon isn't really the point, considering it's already been pointed out that no one starts a conversation with 'have you heard the good word' unless they're trying to discuss Jesus. This has been addressed time and time again and yet it keeps being brought up. She may have initially judged him, or she may have added that into the story for flair. Either way, it was confirmed, and then even more so when he decided to bring heaven into it with his stammering reply.

As for why it's so 'flipping' hard to say 'no thank you,' this too has been addressed before. One's patience can only go so far, especially if you deal with it frequently enough to have your patience worn thin. You seem to expect perfect poise and patience with someone intruding upon others time with their selling point, while ironically aggressively attacking someone else for their behavior. Sorry, not everyone finds these things as interesting as you claim too, and how you have managed to not find one pushy one is beyond me, considering I have experienced far too many of them.

What gets me about all of this is that you're acting as if she publicly mocked and ridiculed him. Which if that is your true belief, you obviously haven't been mocked or ridiculed publicly before, because you would know that this is not the case. For what would be the hundredth time by now, she took a potentially irritating situation and made light of it, she did not mock him, she did not commit a cruelty upon him. His faith was not injured, he was taken off guard, there is a difference.

Offline Rogue

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #94 on: September 07, 2013, 11:23:32 PM »
I was ninja'd and found his explanation more eloquent than mine. I leave you with this story instead...

A player walked up to me and my coworker today. I told her I'd handle this. He asked me, "Did it hurt?" I immediately responded, wide eyed in fear. "How did you know??" He was startled and said "W-what?" I bit my lip and looked down, obviously scared as my coworker glares at him picking up on the joke. "She doesn't want to talk about it." The scared and startled look on his face as he walked away was priceless!

Okay: There were clues not given that he was a player. I could have just assumed or there could be clues that weren't included because they were superfluous for the joke. I didn't tolerate him and say, "I'm sorry but my friend and I are talking." I made a joke instead and laughed at his expense. He could have been smooth about it and said, "How could you be anything other than an Angel?" but he was thrown off by it instead. I laughed about it. Is there any difference to the scene besides one was religious and one was a player? I don't think so unless someone can point it out for me. :)

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #95 on: September 07, 2013, 11:36:48 PM »
My first issue - the assumption that the man in question was a Mormon.

It doesn't seem to me to matter that much. I'm assuming the joke would've been the same if he was a Jehovah's Witness. You're trying to talk it up like some horrible form of profiling happened here: as a matter of fact there are about two or three different sects who do street proselytization, their missionaries are fairly visually identifiable, Mormons happen to be the largest such group and her speculation wasn't out of line. At the very most you can make a case that she should have said "probable Mormon."

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This statement sets the stage. The assumption was already made of who this man was and what he was going to do.

Which in fact he did, because it was a correct and reasonable assumption. There's really no getting around that. And like anyone minding their own business on the street, they had every right to not be in the mood to hear his spiel. There's really no getting around that either.

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From there it dissolves into her trying to do what she can to make the man uncomfortable

From there it goes to her making. a. joke. Which you apparently want to pretend is a horrible shocking act worthy of the death chambers of Auschwitz, but in fact is just not. It is actually a regular everyday thing that people do. Making jokes. Sometimes we even rib one another, for humorous effect. That happens. One might suggest that to go around reeling in shock and horror every time someone reports it happening is an unhealthy and counterproductive attitude. One might even suggest that after working oneself up into a froth of indignation over basically nothing, one's standing to then complain about other people's supposed intolerance rather suffers.

You're right: we do all get to have our own opinions and think they are correct. We just don't all get to actually be correct.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 11:44:23 PM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2013, 11:40:59 PM »
I was ninja'd and found his explanation more eloquent than mine. I leave you with this story instead...

A player walked up to me and my coworker today. I told her I'd handle this. He asked me, "Did it hurt?" I immediately responded, wide eyed in fear. "How did you know??" He was startled and said "W-what?" I bit my lip and looked down, obviously scared as my coworker glares at him picking up on the joke. "She doesn't want to talk about it." The scared and startled look on his face as he walked away was priceless!

That is a thing of beauty. Bravo.  O8)

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2013, 12:40:03 AM »
Hereís the difference between you and I Tainted.
I am tolerant and respectful. You are not.
Are you tolerant of me too or just tolerant in general?

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I am secure enough in my beliefs that I do not feel the need to ridicule someone else for theirs or for practicing what they believe (which witnessing is something Christians believe in).

If I do ridicule someone for acting like a moron, I assure you, its not out of insecurity.  If anything, it would be frustration or annoyance.

"Witnessing" is when Christians try to dupe other people into believing their ideology. From what I have seen to date, this is typically done with misinformation, false logic, and sometimes manipulation. I see no merit in this at all.

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I am compassionate enough that I do not want to hurt those around me just because of their beliefs. I find no pleasure in ridiculing others. I find no joy in other peopleís embarrassment/pain/suffering.

So I have a bit of a mean streak, oh well.

I do have some level of compassion and would not necessarily resort ridicule right away. If however, this was an annoying door to door preacher, or if someone rubbed me the wrong way with their condescending "are you saved?" line of questioning, then yes, I might act upon an urge to strip them naked verbally and send them home questioning their belief system. I typically start with a "no thanks", and then sharpen my responses gradually as needed.

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I actually believe in being not only friendly to those of opposing beliefs but in being hospitable to them.

I have no problem entertaining a religious topic with a religious person. The moment they start talking nonsense, I choose whether to just let it go or debate with them. More often, I let it go - especially if its a friend. Most religious folks that I've spoken with can't handle truth when it contradicts with their religion - and in my opinion, it's not their fault.

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I find that being kind goes a lot farther than being immature, nasty and rude.

Sometimes kindness is ineffective. When it is, sometimes curt, rude and nasty work.

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It actually disturbs me to see so many intolerant people around here. And yes, it is intolerance when you canít live and let live. Disagree with others, but keep it civil. Donít seek to embarrass/harass/ridicule/hurt others just for your own personal amusement.

There are a lot of terribly smart folks on this forum. It does not surprise me at all to see a high level of intolerance towards BS.

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #98 on: September 08, 2013, 12:55:54 AM »
"Witnessing" is when Christians try to dupe other people into believing their ideology. From what I have seen to date, this is typically done with misinformation, false logic, and sometimes manipulation. I see no merit in this at all.

As an add-on, there's the whole, tolerate me and I'll tolerate you thing that "Witnessing" kinda throws out the window...

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #99 on: September 08, 2013, 01:16:26 AM »
     Yeah, fine, I think I may have confused the Mormons with the Jehovah's Witnesses.  But it appears that others have experiences of being persistently approached despite polite refusals by Mormons (more definitely than me anyway -- I'm at the point where I can barely keep them straight as their initial approaches have gone toward me).  Anyway, the principle is much the same to me.  After a string of evangelists comes after me seeking my subscription to their good news, I really don't have patience for another case of the same conversation about something intended to push me toward something I really don't subscribe to, and something that they will be that interested in dragging out. 

     Even a relatively civil conversation where I say, oh I'm a little more sympathetic to pagan things, which leaves them with a face-saving sort of "Well, at least this one seems open to the idea of a/some god(s)," tends to drag on interminably.  I have told them over and over it doesn't do anything for me to go there, and they keep asking me questions and probing and not backing away from the door even when I have hinted, "You know I really have to go now."  Or following me along the street attempting to continue the conversation while I've said "no thank you, I don't want to talk about that kind of thing now," and I'm really wanting to think about the next part of my day, walking faster and faster and getting sweaty trying to get them to back off.

     So after a few of these in a month, I really don't care exactly what church or sect or specific doctrine they are.  They sound like Of the big bad follow this or go to hell style Book (whatever, as far as I'm concerned at that point) evangelists, some evangelists don't back off (you may notice at one point I did say "some"), and I don't have time and interest to process this mess at my door or in public space, if I can help it. 

     Now, Iniq, you can say whatever you like is being civil and hospitable, whether it's 5 minutes or a whole day of my time with cookies and bed and a seminary exchange in my own house -- whatever floats your boat.  But if I don't agree with  you on that standard, then I'm not going to think you are being "friendly" when you tell me that to do otherwise is mean or rude.  Instead, I am going to think you are sounding rather paternalistic and bothersome.  You may call it friendly, but some of us find it downright creepy.  To me "civil" society ends where it becomes this difficult to protect your own private space and time.  There, I say there's nothing civil about what you're asking of people -- unless I assume that you want to force them to change their whole view of society, and you think it's uncivil and rude if they don't give over just what you want to whoever in the name of doing that. 

     By the way, if all the Mormons or the Jehovahs or whoever evangelical actually did was show up with a petition, yes or no, and they all went away in a quick minute predictably, I might actually be willing to say yes or no and be done with them.  Then at least, it would be on paper who they are and what they want done in the world, not some vague endless babble about the end of the world and how I should come to their church and oh, don't I believe their pastor's position on this, oh how about that?  At least a couple times a week.  But that's not the way evangelists operate in my experience.  These often don't back off nicely, though I bet they enjoy you if you let them in for tea and give them an hour, and maybe (given your consistent use of the word "witness") tell them you already believed some things they do anyway.  They're evangelists!
 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:21:29 AM by kylie »