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Author Topic: Falls over laughing  (Read 5769 times)

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Offline Tsenta

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #100 on: September 08, 2013, 06:53:00 AM »
Honestly...all this 'holier than thou' stuff...over a joke. You need to understand that humor and sarcasm are better ways to deal with someone petitioning you on the street than say hostility. I'm sure the guy was far from humiliated, or insulted. He puts himself in the line of fire so to speak likely on a daily basis and has likely dealt with worse.

Long story short, jokes aren't meant to be taken seriously and a few here do just that.

Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #101 on: September 08, 2013, 08:47:13 AM »
Honestly...all this 'holier than thou' stuff...over a joke. You need to understand that humor and sarcasm are better ways to deal with someone petitioning you on the street than say hostility. I'm sure the guy was far from humiliated, or insulted. He puts himself in the line of fire so to speak likely on a daily basis and has likely dealt with worse.

Long story short, jokes aren't meant to be taken seriously and a few here do just that.

-flops- This is one of the many points that have been attempted to be made around here.


From there it goes to her making. a. joke. Which you apparently want to pretend is a horrible shocking act worthy of the death chambers of Auschwitz, but in fact is just not. It is actually a regular everyday thing that people do. Making jokes. Sometimes we even rib one another, for humorous effect. That happens. One might suggest that to go around reeling in shock and horror every time someone reports it happening is an unhealthy and counterproductive attitude. One might even suggest that after working oneself up into a froth of indignation over basically nothing, one's standing to then complain about other people's supposed intolerance rather suffers.

You're right: we do all get to have our own opinions and think they are correct. We just don't all get to actually be correct.


One might think you are talking about someone you know rather well ::)

Offline Sethala

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2013, 03:03:10 AM »
The difference being forgotten is location. When my roommate answers the phone she says, "Roadkill Cafe, you kill them we grill them, could I have your order?" to get rid of most telemarketers.

You can also try "Stephen's Mortuary, you stab 'em we slab 'em, how can I help you?"

Offline Beorning

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2013, 08:42:43 AM »
I just wanted to say that I agree with Pumpkin and Inquisitous O on what they are saying. The OP's message does seem to be a bit on the gloating side: "Haha, look how I made a fool out of a silly religious person"... I, for once, don't find it funny.

The analogy to telemarketers was raised. Well, telemarketers don't deserve to be the subject of jokes, either. It's an awful, stressful job - and when people shout at you or make fun of you, it's double stressful. So no, you shouldn't be making jokes of telemarketers, either...

Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #104 on: September 10, 2013, 08:57:09 AM »
I...

-sighs-

It has been pointed out...I'm not even going to attempt to count how many times...the joke was not an attempt to mock or ridicule the man. It was utilizing the use of humor to deflect an irritating situation away from occurring. The humor lay in the juxtaposition of a unicorn in regards to a deity and an afterlife with a touch of amusement at his being taken off guard. I highly doubt that the man's faith felt injured as I'm pretty sure anyone bold enough to approach someone about their faith is confident enough that said belief wasn't fazed in the least by the 'absurdity' of her comment.

(I'm so throwing up my hands and giving up if all we do in this thread is repeat arguments and counter-arguments)

Offline Beorning

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #105 on: September 10, 2013, 09:10:25 AM »
Well, one could say that juxtaposing a deity with an unicorn is a bit offensive, actually. Religion is a serious matter and unicorn are, well... unicorns. Is it really that hard to tell a religious person "I'm not interested in taking, thank you"? I've done it many times and I've never had any problem with that...

Also, aside from the joke itself, OP's coming here and posting about it does feel like a form of gloating...

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2013, 09:26:05 AM »
Strictly-speaking, as I said upfront, it is not the nicest possible thing to do on a scale of 0 - 1000 kittens-cuddling-a-cupcake. Humour is not always necessarily nice, in part because -- as has been pointed out by various parties -- people (like the OP) are often using it as an outlet to vent anger or frustration. If all you want to say is, "hey, you know, bit dickish and maybe not as funny as you thought it was," have at it.

It just isn't worth the pitch of fainting-couch pearl-clutching oh-the-humanity-have-you-people-no-souls nonsense that occurred in this ridonkulous thread. If you're agreeing with that, sir, you and I shall to step outside in order that I can slap with you the flank of an halibut.  People who go into endeavours that involve bothering the public -- and if you're in sales, and if you're in missionary work, that's your job -- had better have a sense of humour, point blank. It's a necessary part of the job, because sometimes humour becomes a necessity for the people you're bothering. I've been a telemarketer, I've been a cold-caller, and I can tell you right now I'd far rather encounter a joke than many of the alternatives in doing that work; I have little doubt that missionaries feel the same way. So don't someone come to me and talk to me about the "suffering" the OP caused -- life is suffering, and humour is generally speaking the mildest possible form of it.

(EDIT: Oh goodness, I missed a golden opportunity for the Princess Bride reference there: "Life is suffering, Highness! Anyone who tells you different is selling something." Missed... chance at... pop-culture... reference... must... throw myself... on... sword... like that guy... said... in Serenity...)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:08:52 AM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Imogen

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2013, 09:35:16 AM »
I hardly doubt the 'victim' is any worse for wear after this OMG I ROCKX I WAS SO FUNNY LOLLOLOLZ bit of amazing humor. Does that mean I think this is post worthy? Not moreso than the average farts people post on their facebook, which where this amazing story of wowwozors I was rude in public LOLLOL, in my humble opinion, belongs. (Under the caveat of 'if this amazing Monty Python-esque (don't shoot me, fans!) blurb of memorable humor should have been shared with us poor readers in the first place').


Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2013, 09:37:38 AM »
Well, one could say that juxtaposing a deity with an unicorn is a bit offensive, actually. Religion is a serious matter and unicorn are, well... unicorns. Is it really that hard to tell a religious person "I'm not interested in taking, thank you"? I've done it many times and I've never had any problem with that...

Also, aside from the joke itself, OP's coming here and posting about it does feel like a form of gloating...

Ahh see, this is where we hit the murky territory that amuses me to no end.

See, there is no difference between unicorns and religion, (well the mythology behind it anyways) well at least to me. Might be different to you, but as has been pointed out before, differing opinions exist. That's the best part about adding unicorns to this mix that makes me snicker, is that it seems so bloody offensive to people with belief. Because, well how dare you compare God to an imaginary creature? Yeah well, prove their imaginary, just like I get told to prove that God isn't real. In other words, turnabout=fair play.

Also, are we really going to sit here and pretend that a person's religion is so sacred, so above reproach and question, that is above a light joke?

Lastly, it'd be more gloating if she had slapped it into the G&C, whereas she put it into the PROC, which probably means she wanted some discussion on the matter. Of course I don't think she expected the drastic overreaction that has flooded this thread to the point of being utterly ridiculous, but that's what happens when you come into the PROC section. Also, gloating? Really? Is that what telling a story you find amusing and put up for discussion becomes?

Apparently humor is not only mocking and ridicule, but gloating as well?

Interesting.

@Cyrano: ....flank of a halibut? -snorts-

Offline kylie

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2013, 09:39:17 AM »
     Okay, this is sort of living down to my understanding that American conservatives (or particularly, the religious right that makes up an influential chunk of them lately) have no tolerance or capacity for humor, particularly when the joke is on their position.  It starts to remind me of those Iranians who can't stand having a few cartoons about Mohammed out there anywhere, and have to resort to criminalizing humor (and images of people, period even) to toe their own line.  But anyway...   

     The US, right?  It's more or less still a free country.  I think (though there are some areas where I have my doubts)...  So if you think mocking an idea itself, or mocking the notion of someone in effect demanding the right to proselytize to strangers (which many seem to do with such an opening, regardless of this specific case) is unacceptable, then you need to go find a still greater, more actual theocracy than the historical advantages and biases of major religions in the US have managed to carve out .  Considerable though the weight of those biases and conventions (and certain chunks of the South in particular pushing them rather hard) can be.       

Quote from: Beorning
The analogy to telemarketers was raised. Well, telemarketers don't deserve to be the subject of jokes, either. It's an awful, stressful job - and when people shout at you or make fun of you, it's double stressful. So no, you shouldn't be making jokes of telemarketers, either...
    Telemarketers?  Actually, I did market research by telephone for some months and I encountered lots of people upset at being called -- and these were mostly people who had dealt with the companies offering the surveys before (or their relatives), not totally unrelated parties!  Plenty of them made nasty remarks or simply hung up or tried to distract me into unrelated conversation or sometimes, picked fun at the survey process. 

And you know what?  I wasn't particularly offended.  I just took it in stride as part of the job of dialing unfamiliar people at some random time in their life.  If one was bitchy, I could just hang up right away and dial another one.  (Think: Hmm, Mr. Mormon could easily walk away and find someone else to offer the news.  Doesn't God want to give everyone a chance.  Or did your church give you a quota to bring into the congregation next Sunday, if the comparison is to a job?   Well then, better hurry up and keep playing the numbers til you find someone amicable.) 

There are plenty of fish in the sea, and a few like to answer surveys (maybe a few even like to talk about a new product, if you're only marketing).  Quite a few don't.  Big deal.  I don't consider it a personal attack, and I've hung up on plenty of unwanted phone calls myself.  It was one of the easier jobs I've done -- I sat there reading off a script to those people who wanted to answer it, and happily ignored the rest.  So the assumption that a telemarketer has to be personally damaged by brusque or snide responses, totally does not hold water for me.

     Lots of jobs (or lifestyles, or interest groups) can be stressful.  That's no good reason why those who find humor to help reduce tension should have to give it up.  "Hey, Secret Service, I know you've got things you want to get done too, but no pointing out it's ironic that the killer attacked Congress on a day when no one was in the office.  He might get offended!  How dare you?"  What???
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 09:47:04 AM by kylie »

Offline Kythia

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2013, 09:42:05 AM »
I hardly doubt the 'victim' is any worse for wear after this OMG I ROCKX I WAS SO FUNNY LOLLOLOLZ bit of amazing humor. Does that mean I think this is post worthy? Not moreso than the average farts people post on their facebook, which where this amazing story of wowwozors I was rude in public LOLLOL, in my humble opinion, belongs. (Under the caveat of 'if this amazing Monty Python-esque (don't shoot me, fans!) blurb of memorable humor should have been shared with us poor readers in the first place').

QFT

She made some nonsense comment about unicorns and then ran away with her friend, presumably giggling.  If this guy remembers it at all its probably in terms of "idiot" rather than "rude person who shook my faith to the core".  I tend to fall on Cyrano et al's side of the argument in general, but in this case it shouldn't have been posted.  It's just childish.  Had her rejoinder been actually funny then sure, but in this case?  Meh.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2013, 09:43:41 AM »
I hardly doubt the 'victim' is any worse for wear after this OMG I ROCKX I WAS SO FUNNY LOLLOLOLZ bit of amazing humor. Does that mean I think this is post worthy? Not moreso than the average farts people post on their facebook, which where this amazing story of wowwozors I was rude in public LOLLOL, in my humble opinion, belongs. (Under the caveat of 'if this amazing Monty Python-esque (don't shoot me, fans!) blurb of memorable humor should have been shared with us poor readers in the first place').

See, now this points us to what this thread could have been: "could you have found a funnier way to deal with this situation"? Ah, the road not taken. (I mean, I personally think I could do a pretty convincing excited-cokehead response to "Have you heard the Good News?" along the lines of a "Yeah, it's down to sixty a gram isn't that awesome?!, do you got any connects I think I know a guy over on first street but I don't know-him know-him you know" style of running patter. Funnier? Dorkier? You decide!)

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2013, 09:47:55 AM »
Okay, this is sort of living down to my understanding that American conservatives (or particularly, the religious right that makes up a good chunk of them lately) have no tolerance or capacity for humor

Just FYI, Beorning is in Poland.

And Beorning, I get what you're saying about cases where people actually-in-seriousness say they think God is the equivalent of a unicorn. That's weak. "Juxtaposing" an unexpected thing with religion, though? That's just how humour works. If you want that not to happen you're essentially asking that nobody joke about religion ever, which is a standard unacceptable even to many religious.

Offline Beorning

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2013, 10:03:59 AM »
Just FYI, Beorning is in Poland.

Yeah, I'm not an American conservative. I'm Polish... something. I honestly don't know what, as my views seem to be all over the place  ;D

Quote
And Beorning, I get what you're saying about cases where people actually-in-seriousness say they think God is the equivalent of a unicorn. That's weak. "Juxtaposing" an unexpected thing with religion, though? That's just how humour works. If you want that not to happen you're essentially asking that nobody joke about religion ever, which is a standard unacceptable even to many religious.

Maybe. I don't know, I could well be too sensitive. It's just that when I've read the OP's message, I was like "Hey, that's a bit rude". Purely subjective emotional reaction, I'll give you that.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to gang up on the OP, either...

Offline kylie

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2013, 10:07:44 AM »
Quote
Just FYI, Beorning is in Poland.
      I do keep forgetting that.  Not really sure if it is material, though.  The study I have read was I believe about American conservatives, but this sort of argument treating dry humor about evangelist positions as insulting, etc. appears to follow the same sort of general pattern. 

Maybe it's something about religious or political affiliation that transcends particular national boundaries.  There are some particular issues where certain positions are not labeled "liberal" or "conservative" in precisely the same way, but there can be some comparable trends all the same.  In short, I do still wonder.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:09:15 AM by kylie »

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2013, 10:13:11 AM »
I think she put the comment in the Politics and Religion section due to the religion bashing that does go on here.  She knew that support would be garnered from people that enjoy bashing religion, particular a religion of the Christian grouping.  The Good and Cuddly section would indeed have been the appropriate area for her comment if that was to be taken more light heartedly.  People come to this forum with their guard up and their defenses up because well, this is the area where arguments are meant to occur.  Her post left no actual room for discussion.  In truth my complaint was more about the reaction of E to her post, than over what she really did.  To me her comment is self-evidently immature and childish; my problem was over her gaining support for bragging and Eís double standard.

As for American conservatives, I am from the United States of America but I am not a conservative. 

Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2013, 10:21:19 AM »
...there was one post for someone to say 'heh that was amusing.' Followed by a few more who found it amusing, found the humor in the situation and expressed such.

There was no 'good job, so proud of you, show that religious person how stupid and ridiculous they were.'

No, right out of the gate, the OP was immediately made to look immature and mocking, and then that was built upon, the rest has been a few people trying to point out that it wasn't meant to be overly offensive, mocking or harassing.

So no Pumpkin, this does not get added to this supposed list of religious bashing on E you seem to have collected.

Offline Kythia

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2013, 10:24:56 AM »
So no Pumpkin, this does not get added to this supposed list of religious bashing on E you seem to have collected.


Tainted's posts 1, 2, 3 were pretty much religion bashing though


Offline Braioch

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2013, 10:25:40 AM »
One person, not the majority.

Offline kylie

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2013, 10:27:16 AM »
     Okay, I knew a few people would probably come back complaining about "conservative" but that isn't so much the point.  The point is rather that there is a more or less quantifiable group of people out there, if we look, who have a pretty low tolerance for humor and sarcasm in particular with regard to their social issue positions.  The study happened to focus on political affiliation, but they could presumably have segemented the population in another way, say by religious membership or region or class, whatever and still found such a group. 

    My point remains more to ask, well where is this going?  If no humor is allowed because this or that identity is so socially fragile that its beliefs about deity must be protected from any casual ridicule whatsoever (even in an indirect form such as "Unicorns are Real" which does not even say, gee you know I don't have a lot of scientific proof about this God thing, much less the end of days or all the social policies your particular church might demand while talking so much to me about God on the street and so little about policy issues)... 

And if people are pushing for this, particularly in contexts where a certain set of religions already has a considerable bias of support in certain corners of the political system-- thinking of the US, but I really doubt it's alone...  Then isn't the accusation of "mockery" here something that could be used to push rules in the direction of the Iranian route under Khomeini -- something along the lines of, "No image of the Prophet shall be discussed without Our approval," and violators must be scorned if not prosecuted?  After all, any joke involving a faith might be sacrilege -- or just oh say, rude, intolerant, and uncivil...  But those are words that fired enough times and with enough "righteous outrage" (if I may so characterize Iniq's posts), that people may wish or expect some administrative response.  Which brings me more or less, into the realm of theocracy.

 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:32:26 AM by kylie »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #120 on: September 10, 2013, 10:30:04 AM »
I tried to find a picture of a kitten cuddling a cupcake in order that our healing process could begin, but you know what?

The Intertubes have let me down. No pictures of kittens cuddling cupcakes. *snorts* Rule 34, my black ass.

Offline Kythia

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #121 on: September 10, 2013, 10:31:48 AM »
I tried to find a picture of a kitten cuddling a cupcake in order that our healing process could begin, but you know what?

The Intertubes have let me down. No pictures of kittens cuddling cupcakes. *snorts* Rule 34, my black ass.



Your google-fu is weak, old man.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #122 on: September 10, 2013, 10:32:54 AM »
SQUEEEEE!

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2013, 10:36:16 AM »
Supposed?  That is quite a statement.  Considering I am not the only one who has pointed out that members of Elliquiy are hostile toward and biased against people with religious conviction, particularly those of Christian faith.  Even someone that is not religious, like me, finds a bad taste in their mouth with the harsh treatment of religious people.  So if you want to say supposed then quite honestly you are showing yourself to be willfully ignorant of what goes on in this forum or simply uncaring of the presentation.  Either way that sort of makes you ill-suited to decide what might constitute offensive.

I have already broken down the multitude of excuses given by people.  There was also the comment regarding Mormonís and their underwear, along with a few more jabs at religious people and how they cannot expect to be treated with respect in public.

Well Kylie I would say I complained about conservative and someone else complained that you didnít assume their country correctly.  To this point your generalization seems a tad faulty so people can complain about the poor assumption made.  As for humor not being allowed, I donít think that is the point people are making.  There is obviously a double standard here where religion is allowed to be ridiculed but other social issues are discouraged from being treated the same.  Also there is a simple notion of simple respect being offered to another person.  Then there is the issue of coming online to brag about the exploits. 



Weak Cyrano...very weak.  We need to train you better.  And I found that after being at work for..:: checks watch:: 17 hours...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:37:31 AM by Pumpkin Seeds »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Falls over laughing
« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2013, 10:41:06 AM »


Weak Cyrano...very weak.  We need to train you better.  And I found that after being at work for..:: checks watch:: 17 hours...

Wow. 17 hours?! Those slave-drivers.

That is an immensely cute kitten cuddling a cupcake. In fact I will go so far as to say that nobody could possibly Google a cuter kitten cuddling a cupcake...