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Author Topic: Question for the military folks here...  (Read 1388 times)

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Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2013, 04:15:11 PM »
You're over analyzing it dude. Very few members of the military see continual protracted exposure to combat. For the first seven years of my Naval service, there was no open conflict lasting more than a few weeks. Is it dangerous? Yeah, but so is crossing a highway or driving in heavy high speed traffic.

On the three cruises I went through, we had .. five Class A mishaps. One was an E-2C flying into a flock of seagulls. The others were two air craft in flight mishaps, a cold catapult launch and a flight deck fatality.

I did something like 16 to 18 months of flightline/flight deck service in my first enlistment, a goodly chunk of flight time. In that same timeframe there were something like five times that number of aircraft mishaps in the US (I had a flight officer who did a paper on that.. I forgot).

FYI.. Class A mishap is a million + in damage, aircraft loss and/or crew fatality.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2013, 04:23:01 PM »
You're over analyzing it dude.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry.

BTW.
Quote
Is it dangerous? Yeah, but so is crossing a highway or driving in heavy high speed traffic.

That's the very reason I refuse to get the driving license... Driving a car is scary.

What's a "cold catapult launch"?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2013, 05:37:16 PM »
Yeah, you're right. Sorry.

BTW.
That's the very reason I refuse to get the driving license... Driving a car is scary.

What's a "cold catapult launch"?


No worries.

A 'Cold Catapult Launch' is one, for whatever reason, lacks sufficient steam pressure to launch the payload on it. 

Wrong setting typically, but have (very rarely) a steam line rupture.




Offline Oniya

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Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2013, 06:21:20 PM »
I actually knew that  :-) I used to work in workplace safety and, when I was studying the subject in the tech school, they gave us these kinds of statistics.

It's also one of the most dangerous recreational sports - of course, that actually has to do more with 'water + vehicles + beer' than anything else.

Offline NiceTexasGuy

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 06:38:02 PM »
I'm asking this question here on E, as I know we have some military personnel in our midst :)

The question I want to ask is, basically... aren't you afraid? Weren't you afraid, back when you enlisted? I mean, it's not an ordinary job. The chances of getting killed are quite high, I think. So... why enlist? It seems suicidal...

Let me be clear: I'm not criticizing you. I definitely see why the military service might seem attractive. Heck, there are times I think I would consider joining myself, were I in a better physical and mental shape (as I am, no military would touch me with a ten-foot pole... I actually asked  a recruiter about it ;D). But then, I remember the whole "getting killed" thing - and it stops me completely. I would never sign up for anything that could get me killed...

So... why did you, if I may ask?

(it's a serious question, really)

To go along with what the others have said, my take on the original question is this -- 

At age 18, death is always something that happens to the other guy.  Sure it can happen to me theoretically, but it never has, so the smart money is on it never will.  There's usually not just one reason a person joins the service -- it's a combination of reasons.  The benefits we keep hearing about -- it's what the men in our family do -- peer pressure from like minded friends -- patriotism -- maybe the need to test one's self.

In training, there is rarely emphasis on "you're going to die" -- in the Army and Marines the emphasis is usually on "kill the other guy".  If the possibility of "our" death is raised, it's going to be done in a way that says "If you don't do it this way, you will die" - therefore, if you do it right, you'll survive.

After basic training and you settle in to the job, it's a job.  For a lot of people, it's a job they commute to in the morning and drive home to the wife and kids in the evening.  And when you do find yourself in a situation in which people are getting killed, there certainly is the "that could have been me" thinking, but the fact you're still alive reinforces the idea that it always happens to the other guy.

Finally, it's a fairly well established principle now that in a combat environment men (sorry for not being more PC, but I'm in a hurry) don't fight for the things they initially enlisted for -- mom, money for college, or making the world safe for democracy -- what keeps them in place when every instinct says to run is the bond they feel with the other men in their unit.  "If you aren't going to run away, then neither am I.  Besides, if I ran away, who would protect your sorry ass!"  It's the same thing that causes cops to speed to the scene of another officer calling for backup, and firefighters to follow another into a burning building.

I'm sure you can find a lot of literature on the subject, but you can never go wrong reading a guy named Dave Grossman.

Offline Ascia

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2013, 06:47:34 PM »
Being passionate about what you're doing.  Benefits, such as college tuition.  Adrenaline junkie.

Fun fact:  One of the most dangerous jobs in America, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics is commercial fishing.  It jockeys back and forth with logging.

I'll take the fishing over being a shooter on a flight deck in the Persian Gulf.

Offline Ascia

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2013, 06:53:46 PM »
I'm asking this question here on E, as I know we have some military personnel in our midst :)

The question I want to ask is, basically... aren't you afraid? Weren't you afraid, back when you enlisted? I mean, it's not an ordinary job. The chances of getting killed are quite high, I think. So... why enlist? It seems suicidal...

Let me be clear: I'm not criticizing you. I definitely see why the military service might seem attractive. Heck, there are times I think I would consider joining myself, were I in a better physical and mental shape (as I am, no military would touch me with a ten-foot pole... I actually asked  a recruiter about it ;D). But then, I remember the whole "getting killed" thing - and it stops me completely. I would never sign up for anything that could get me killed...

So... why did you, if I may ask?

(it's a serious question, really)

Less than one percent of the US population will volunteer for the military; there's a galaxy of reasons, and each person has their own, but some think there's an underlying personality trait, white knight syndrome maybe?

You're only scared when someone says 'Oh shit', indicating something unplanned and wrong happened. But the military starts screaming at you and ratcheting up the pressure from your first minute at boot camp. So by the time you see deployment, you're usually as conditioned as you can be.

And if you're not, senior enlisted will fix you.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 06:56:42 PM by Ascia »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2013, 07:05:57 PM »
I'll take the fishing over being a shooter on a flight deck in the Persian Gulf.

Commercial or recreational?  The other one has beer.  ;D

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 09:16:29 AM »
I'll take the fishing over being a shooter on a flight deck in the Persian Gulf.

Having seen how fast they can get rescue swimmers in the water in the Gulf I'm not sure. ;). Had an officer get blown overboard by a 'huffer' (power/start air cart) and then seeing an airman follow him (She tried to tackle him as he rolled ass over tea kettle over the edge) and having EVERYONE accounted for in five minutes, a hello in he air AND folks in the water helping the. I think your chances of surviving falling overboard are better than some of the crab fishing shows in Alaskan waters.

Had three carrier deployments, (2 years, 10 months, 2 days total sea time on my counter). During that time we had two flight deck fatalities and a little over two dozen major injuries and six counseling sessions for 'excessive force' on my trainees to keep them safe. (The only one that LOOKED like it might have gone to mast for me didn't when the on deck cameras showed me throwing my trainee to the ground and covering her from the jet wash. She got a bruised hip, I got a sprained wrist and one of the three injuries to my shoulder that led to my disabilty)

I recall my time on the Deck with mostly fondness, joke that the perfect job would to be a flight deck troubleshooter during the day and going home every night and recall one name everyday since that spring morning in 1997 off the coast of Thailand when I talked t him last.

ADC(AW) Jeremy Seeds. Best damn flight deck chief I ever knew. There have been something like five personal deaths tied to folks I knew in service, there are three of them I can recall the men's names and how they passed no matter how long ago or how tired I am.

Offline Ascia

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 10:16:24 AM »
Yeah, and the fisherman are responsible for their safety.

As a CDQAR and troubleshooter, I'm watching my back, and the back of everyone in every color around me.

I'm still taking the fisherman. No explosives to worry about for them, at least.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 10:20:29 AM »
Having seen how fast they can get rescue swimmers in the water in the Gulf I'm not sure. ;). Had an officer get blown overboard by a 'huffer' (power/start air cart) and then seeing an airman follow him (She tried to tackle him as he rolled ass over tea kettle over the edge) and having EVERYONE accounted for in five minutes, a hello in he air AND folks in the water helping the. I think your chances of surviving falling overboard are better than some of the crab fishing shows in Alaskan waters.

Water's a touch warmer in the Gulf, too.  Five minutes in Alaskan waters is another *cough* kettle of fish.


Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2013, 01:31:27 AM »
Water's a touch warmer in the Gulf, too.  Five minutes in Alaskan waters is another *cough* kettle of fish.

Never seen a six and half foot long sea snake that far north though.

Offline Dovel

Re: Question for the military folks here...
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2013, 07:11:43 AM »
I believe at the time I was much too young to consider the possibility of getting hurt. When I joined, the thought of dying didn't really enter my mind, and then when something did happen that may put me in harms way I was too hyped up in the moment to notice.

Though looking back I can see they are a few times that should have scared me and made me take notice.