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Author Topic: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?  (Read 664 times)

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Offline Sel NarTopic starter

Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources basically did a SWAT-style raid against a no-kill shelter because a good samaritan brought an orphaned deer there. The warrant, which only allowed search of the barn, and siezure of the deer, was basically tossed aside as 13 burlymen essentially ransacked the entire shelter, confiscated cellphones to delete pictures of the raid, stuffed the baby deer into a bodybag (and later returned the deer's corpse to the shelter), and generally acted more like mobsters saying 'Be a shame if something happened to this pretty no-kill shelter'.

http://www.wisn.com/news/armed-agents-raid-animal-shelter-for-baby-deer/-/9373668/21272108/-/wvh1n7z/-/index.html

The fact that Aerial surveillance was used, instead of, say, Walking up to the Shelter and saying 'So, we heard someone dropped a baby deer off here; due to the risk of disease such as CBI, it's not legal for it to stay here', all but screams 'gross waste of resources and taxpayer money'

dailyKos has a good rant about the situation here.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/01/1228320/-The-Fawning-Police-State-The-Apex-of-American-Insanity-Has-Been-Reached

Online ShadowFox89

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 06:00:20 AM »
 Man, it's Wisconsin. They probably did that on their way to a beer run.

 Wasting taxpayer money is pretty much Scott Walker's forte.

Offline Retribution

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Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 07:27:44 AM »
Okay I read your links and I would offer some caution in taking the stories with a grain of salt. Yeah swat team for deer is over kill. But if you look at both stories they are heavily slanted to the POV of the shelter and those involved. There are virtually no quotes from the Wisconsin authorities unless they are obviously heavily cherry picked. And you will also note they did not describe how the place was approached other than just saying nine officers armed to the teeth. This smells of spin doctoring to me. As for the aerial photos I work in low level government enforcement and use them all the time as do most people who work for the government as well as the private sector. It is called, wait for it! Google Earth. MSN also has some pretty nifty satellite imagery as well I like it better because in the print section you can type in notes. Look on MSN.com - More - Maps then click the button for aerial or birds eye view.

I am not sure if this is in fact the case but when I read the links you gave with a critical eye I get a feeling they are being spun. Just like when I watch Fox news and roll my eyes. It is the same sort of thing. On the practical front of the fawn. I am in fact a practicing biologist and ALL published data as for the policy of EVERY reputable wildlife agency is to leave baby animal alone. Do not touch them, do not try to save them or anything of the sort. Doe deer leave their young hidden while they go off to forage and until they return later. Do not believe me look it up or watch Animal Planet. The people "saving" this fawn indeed made it an orphan. If you do find a wild animal in need of care contact a government agency that has wildlife rehabilitation not a no kill shelter.

[EDIT] On other notes the reason you cannot possesses or sell wildlife goes back to the dawn of wildlife management when wild game was taken for market. It resulted in the near extinction of many species and there is still a thriving black market in wild game. Deer are among them especially with the market in Asia for deer antler specifically in the velvet stage.  Again I am not saying this is the case or that Wisconsin authorities did not go overboard, but I would like a little more transparent article. I am sure probably 9 agents arrived at the facility I am not so sure what "armed to the teeth" as the shelter employee described means.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 07:44:42 AM by Retribution »

Offline Valerian

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 08:08:48 AM »
I live in Wisconsin, and sadly, you almost don't have to spin things anymore to make Walker & Co. look bad.  The bare facts of what's going on are usually quite bad enough.  I don't know anything about this particular story, but it might very likely be evidence of the larger problem, which is that as soon as he was in office, Walker started rewarding his cronies with plum government jobs, whether they were qualified for them or not.  The current DNR secretary, who should be running things, doesn't know anything about the job and doesn't really care to learn.  At least two people who formerly held the position have publicly taken issue with the way she runs the department.  For instance, she arranged for a company doing serious amounts of illegal dumping -- which resulted in contaminated groundwater and at least 40 poisoned drinking wells -- to be investigated by state district attorneys instead of Department of Justice officials (the usual, recommended procedure) so that they would have to pay only the bare minimum of fines and would also not be required to pay for testing the groundwater in the area.  The only reason any investigation happened in the first place was due to public outcry, not any of her efforts.  Said company was a contributor to Walker's campaign, you see.

Having the DNR in his pocket has another very useful side effect for Walker -- they're not protesting the legislation the Republicans forced through allowing open-pit mining in the northern part of the state.  There's a great deal of protest about the mines, but without the DNR's support, there's not much chance of stopping it, unfortunately.  :(

Offline Sel NarTopic starter

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 08:33:21 AM »
Oh, I don't deny in the slightest that the articles are spun to hell and back, but there's still some solid nuggets of impropriety in there; for example, Aerial surveillance in regards to confirming if a wild animal is on the premises of a shelter is, honestly stupid, when a DNR employee could pull in with a ministry vehicle and use something called 'eyes' to do the same thing. (Referencing google earth as a way to look at something is all well and good, but many of GE's images are averaging a year old or more; I Highly doubt the DNR got pictures from google earth showing a faun on the premises of the shelter within the few days/week or two it was there)

Also, the no-kill shelter had paperwork signed and ready to show that they were taking the faun to a wildlife rehabilitation centre that day. So, while the good samaritans that thought the faun was orphaned did what they likely thought was correct, the shelter was also doing what was legal; namely trying to get the faun into wildlife rehab.

The core issue is not, however, about the deer. It's about the actions taken by WIDNR, when a simple application of feet on the ground in a non-aggresive capacity could have not only saved thousands of dollars, but not cause an international facepalm and (rather deserved) mockery of Wisconsin in general.

Another page from dailykos (cum grano salis) to add more hoopla, and some extra information that I dug up, which again backtracks to the WISN news station, which I linked in my first post.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/02/1228486/-Mad-about-Wisconsin-DNR-Killing-a-Fawn-With-a-SWAT-Team-Take-Some-Action

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/dnr-agents-kill-fawn-at-kenosha-area-animal-shelter-b9966698z1-217944921.html

Offline Retribution

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Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 08:48:06 AM »
To address both: yeah I live in the state that boarders you on the south we are much more dysfunctional  ;D and I am not a fan of Mr. Walker. The issues you addressed are very real remember I work for the government. I will not out myself anymore but being one of your dysfunctional neighbors to the south I will say after a twenty plus year career it has gotten to the point I dread going to work.

Sel Nar: yeah it sounds like they very well might have gone way over the top. I acknowledge that it is just when I read the stories the blatant spin turned me off. Of course it is hard to find any news stories anymore that just report the facts. That leaves a bad taste in your mouth or at least mine. I have seen myself quoted in the press and honestly I did not recognize the quotes other than they took my words and re-arranged them to suit their purposes. Or the latest one they have started doing to me since I refuse to speak with the press is Freedom of Information Acting my reports and cherry picking words out of them and putting it up like I was interviewed.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 10:23:55 AM »
To address both: yeah I live in the state that boarders you on the south we are much more dysfunctional  ;D and I am not a fan of Mr. Walker. The issues you addressed are very real remember I work for the government. I will not out myself anymore but being one of your dysfunctional neighbors to the south I will say after a twenty plus year career it has gotten to the point I dread going to work.

Sel Nar: yeah it sounds like they very well might have gone way over the top. I acknowledge that it is just when I read the stories the blatant spin turned me off. Of course it is hard to find any news stories anymore that just report the facts. That leaves a bad taste in your mouth or at least mine. I have seen myself quoted in the press and honestly I did not recognize the quotes other than they took my words and re-arranged them to suit their purposes. Or the latest one they have started doing to me since I refuse to speak with the press is Freedom of Information Acting my reports and cherry picking words out of them and putting it up like I was interviewed.

You know I used to be a lot more wary of 'fringe' reports like this till leaks of things like the 'raw milk' raids. I mean if you are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for property seizures of like.. 70 grand in one case.. something is out of focus, particularly when at the same time companies are hiding origins of food tainting (granted the one case I'm recalling was out of China)

Offline meikle

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2013, 03:30:39 PM »
Wasting taxpayer money is pretty much Scott Walker's forte.

But Walker's big thing is that he hates Milwaukee and Madison (us liberal cityfolk and all).  I'm not sure how targeting an animal shelter fits into the narrative ... I thought our northern woodsy cousins were pro-animal, though -- or at least pro-wildlife?

Tsk tsk.

Offline Sethala

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 12:52:04 PM »
But Walker's big thing is that he hates Milwaukee and Madison (us liberal cityfolk and all).  I'm not sure how targeting an animal shelter fits into the narrative ... I thought our northern woodsy cousins were pro-animal, though -- or at least pro-wildlife?

Tsk tsk.

I think this is less a political move, and more just a general screw-up due to placing unqualified-but-loyal people in positions of authority.

Still means we should get rid of Walker and get people that actually know wtf they're doing in those positions, not just people who are doing just what they're told by someone with an agenda.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2013, 01:44:58 PM »
I think this is less a political move, and more just a general screw-up due to placing unqualified-but-loyal people in positions of authority.

Still means we should get rid of Walker and get people that actually know wtf they're doing in those positions, not just people who are doing just what they're told by someone with an agenda.

Unfortunately between folks spiking the cool aid and big money backing him..I don't see him going till he's ready to move on to bigger things.

Or.. more likely the feds finally tie something to him.

Offline Valerian

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2013, 02:00:10 PM »
There are signs that the John Doe investigation might be reopened.  *crosses fingers*

He's still got his sights set on running for president... but honestly, I can't imagine the Republican party backing him on that.  There's been too much dirt sticking to him, and they'll want a safer candidate.  I'm just hoping that the party also doesn't feel inclined to back him too hard for another run for governor, either.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 09:51:05 AM »
There are signs that the John Doe investigation might be reopened.  *crosses fingers*

He's still got his sights set on running for president... but honestly, I can't imagine the Republican party backing him on that.  There's been too much dirt sticking to him, and they'll want a safer candidate.  I'm just hoping that the party also doesn't feel inclined to back him too hard for another run for governor, either.

He's doing good by the Koch brothers and has enough staff throwing themselves on the federal charges. He'll have the funds to run again. Question is will he have party support?

Offline Plot Hooks

Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 07:48:13 PM »
This isn't just Wisconsin.  This is America at large.  What's happened is that, in the wake of 9/11, a large amount of money has been made available to beef up local police security.   Relatively small towns get SWAT teams, APCs, etc.   Their money comes with strings attached, namely that they have to show that they've been using the equipment or risk loosing it if they can't show need.

That, combined with the fact that when you have a hammer everything starts looking like a nail, has lead to a situation where many departments are using SWAT teams to serve drug warrants and other low-level crimes.  Also consider, most of the people who do SWAT for these smaller jurisdictions are not full-time SWAT in the same way that LA or another larger municipality would have a SWAT.   

TlDr:  Big Guns + Incentive to use them + Lack of training = Swat teams invading animal shelters to apprehend deer.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 08:42:41 PM by Plot Hooks »

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Re: So, is it just me, or has Wisconsin Authorities gone full stupid?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 08:21:03 PM »
TlDr:  Big Guns + Incentive to use them + Lack of training = Swat teams iinvading animal shelters to apprehend deer.

'Careful men, I got the word there's a stag party going on in there.'