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Author Topic: Has anyone played any good video games lately?  (Read 41381 times)

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Offline Inkidu

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Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #450 on: March 21, 2014, 02:55:38 PM »
Excellent summary of the early DS bosses, Sel Nar.

If you're not very far in, I'd be curious to know what you think about the later bosses. Because my experience is that while the early bosses are fine ( I can imagine the Pursuer being an utter pain if you're new to Dark Souls ), they really don't get that much more interesting as you go along - not until much later, and even then it's not very regular. The Tower of Flame can be forgiven, as you could start there as well, and so it can't really be that difficult, either.

However, the first really challenging boss, the Ruin Sentinels, is such a major spike that I often end up going Undead Lords or further before returning to him. And even then, I prefer to have a phantom with me - it's the only way I know of to reliably kill them, by splitting them up.

It's almost like the game begins when you reach Drangleic. In sort of the same way Dark Souls begins when you reach Anor Londo. But it takes a lot longer to get to Drangleic than to Anor Londo.

It'll probably sour your view of Dark Souls even more to learn that the exact values for various bonuses are not actually known.
It wouldn't bug me so much if you actually knew what half the stats did from the start. My first ten Dark Soul games were over just trying to figure out what all the numbers meant, and the game has a staggering (and probably unnecessary amount) amount of stats and a distinct lack of even tooltips if I remember correctly. 

Offline Sel Nar

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #451 on: March 21, 2014, 03:32:57 PM »
At any time in DS1 and 2, you could open your character profile screen, hit the 'Select' button on your controller (PS3, use a similar analouge for PC and 360 users) and get a basic summary of each statistic, and what it affected. Was it helpful? Not really, but at least it gave some semblance of information, by mentioning what stats did what, and what 'growable' stats would affect which secondary statistics.

But, the long and short of it is that the Developers took notice of the complaints about the game being obtuse, and did what they could to peel back that layer of irritation and secrecy without compromising in regards to the game's actual challenge, or inferences in regards to the lore.

One thing I do like in DS2 is that the 'Soft cap' for stats is softer than it was in earlier games; In DS1, as soon as you hit 40 endurance, you'd never pump another point in it because that's when you'd stop gaining combat stamina, or not bother going above 30 vitality because you hit 1100 HP, and further levels would give only 8-10 HP per level until you hit 1900 HP at 99. In DS2, you gain 30 HP per level of Vitality to a specific stat, 20 for a reasonable pass beyond that, and 10 or less for the final stretch to the statistic cap, so the soft cap is far less sharp-edged, and encourages you to continue to feed as you see fit; Between that and the fact that ~Every~ Stat in DS2 gives you more health, and you no longer feel punished for trying to make a 'glass cannon' character, because there's less glass in the cannon.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #452 on: March 21, 2014, 03:37:48 PM »
I didn't think the actual combat in DS1 was the hard part, it was learning how to properly build a character, which was a massive, confusing, and irrevocable mess. So, I'm glad they listened. Of course I still find humanity and hollow mechanic gimicky, but that's the gimmick. 

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #453 on: March 21, 2014, 04:41:51 PM »
I still find it a little annoying that I only get one point of stamina for each soul level now. I feel like I don't have nearly enough stamina, but each point I want costs over 10K souls. :P

I also have no idea if there's any way I can increase my equip load, like with Havel's ring ( or was it another? ) in DS2. I hope there is.

Offline Sel Nar

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #454 on: March 21, 2014, 04:44:46 PM »
All of the baseline rings make a return. (Increased armour, resistance to various afflictions, equipment load, and the Cling Ring, which increases your maximum health from 50% at Max. Hollow to 75% at Max. Hollow)

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #455 on: March 21, 2014, 05:11:55 PM »
Yeah, looked it up and found several of them. I need to respect now, as I found a boltstone and can get the weapon I want ( Lightning Mastodon Greatsword, hoo! Need Faith! )

Offline Changingsaint

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #456 on: March 21, 2014, 06:49:12 PM »
I think I found the equipment ring off of Gavlan in No Man's Warf.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #457 on: March 21, 2014, 07:05:24 PM »
I think I found the equipment ring off of Gavlan in No Man's Warf.

There's several, actually. There's one you get in Drangleic Castle ( which only gives equip load ), and the Dragon rings ( that do other things like increase HP ), that you get in various places.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #458 on: March 21, 2014, 09:19:18 PM »
Infamous second son.

Offline JenTrish

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #459 on: March 21, 2014, 09:26:10 PM »
To The Moon

I didn't expect much going into the game, since it was made using RPG Maker. Was I wrong... WAS I WRONG

Such an incredible masterpiece :'(

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #460 on: March 21, 2014, 10:09:23 PM »
I didn't think the actual combat in DS1 was the hard part, it was learning how to properly build a character, which was a massive, confusing, and irrevocable mess. So, I'm glad they listened. Of course I still find humanity and hollow mechanic gimicky, but that's the gimmick.
The game is pathetically easy.  Just take it slow.  After I realized that in Dark Souls, I had no problem beating the game.  Then I lost interest.  I had heard that they were going to change things for DS2, and I wanted to support that.

What I got, was a cheaper version of the first game.  The loss of life after death mechanic is stupid.  The WHOLE point of the game is to die, as you learn the systems.  It's bad enough they punish you by forcing you to back track AND have to fight through a respawn in the first game, but now they couple that with shaving off your life bar.  If the stupid effigies were more plentiful, then that would have been fine.  But there is a finite number of them in the game.

It's unnecessary, so why is it there?  My theory?  To pad the game, make it seem longer than it might actually be.  Just like the respawning was in the first game.

I WANT TO LOVE THIS GAME!  They did do a better smoothing of the combat animations, which is a plus.  And each weapon has it's own unique ability for both on or off hand, if you're dual wielding, but all these artificial difficulty tricks just bring it down.  They're unnecessary.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #461 on: March 21, 2014, 10:25:27 PM »
I wouldn't call the game pitifully easy, but I was depressed when it was more about rote memorization of an area that actual combat. The bosses (even the easy ones) were fairly unique and challenging, but I didn't like how it encouraged cheesing. I've got real love-dislike thing with Dark Souls. I just get irritated when people feel like they have to defend games because they're hard... and they're defending them for all the wrong reasons. :P

Do not defend fake difficulty!

Offline Oreo

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #462 on: March 21, 2014, 10:27:51 PM »
To The Moon

I didn't expect much going into the game, since it was made using RPG Maker. Was I wrong... WAS I WRONG

Such an incredible masterpiece :'(

Nothing wrong with that. I love RPGMaker games! ;D Have you tried the Aveyond Series?

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #463 on: March 21, 2014, 10:44:12 PM »
To The Moon

I didn't expect much going into the game, since it was made using RPG Maker. Was I wrong... WAS I WRONG

Such an incredible masterpiece :'(

That sounds interesting. The made with RPG Maker part. That's one of those things I always thought sounded cool in theory, but having played with a few of the RPG Makers, I never thought I could try doing anything with it.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #464 on: March 21, 2014, 10:44:26 PM »
Do not defend fake difficulty!

When I think of 'fake difficulty', I think of things like how increasing the difficulty in Fallout 3 gives enemies more health and damage. I'm genuinely curious as to how you'd define it. Or what you'd consider 'real' difficulty - examples would be good!

I have to object to the notion that Dark Souls is all about 'rote memorization', too, as I have when you've said the same thing in the past. Knowing what an area is like, or how to beat a boss, is not the same as being able to do it. Knowing, say, that you have to dodge the Looking Glass Knight's attacks to create an opening to attack, is not the same as being able to do that. That takes timing. Which, last I checked, is something like a skill. You won't get far without knowing it, but just like in WoW, knowing how to do a boss in theory is not the same as being able to do it - and not just because you don't meet a certain gear level.

If the stupid effigies were more plentiful, then that would have been fine.  But there is a finite number of them in the game.

In a single game, it should be possible to gather literally hundreds of them. Granted, they may not be available to you at the time when you need them, but that's why you have to conserve them. You don't have to use them at a bonfire, which I think is a great change as you don't have to waste them by dying before getting to a boss, so if an area is giving you trouble, save them until the boss ( if you have to - or do the boss without! ). The ring that limits HP loss is great, too, as you lose a maximum of 25% health with that. If you're playing well enough, that should be enough to keep you going except in the most extreme cases.

I agree the Humanity system in Dark Souls was better in some ways, but given the changes made ( no Humanity stat, no humanity scaling weapons ), it was sort of necessary to change it. Having unlimited effigies and no humanity stat would've made it pointless to have in the first place. I can't see any sort of compromise working out, as it connects to all the changes they made with enemy respawns and so on.

It's also possible to become human without them. There's a shrine in Shrine of Amana, and assisting other players will eventually turn you human.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #465 on: March 21, 2014, 10:51:13 PM »
When I think of 'fake difficulty', I think of things like how increasing the difficulty in Fallout 3 gives enemies more health and damage. I'm genuinely curious as to how you'd define it. Or what you'd consider 'real' difficulty - examples would be good!

I have to object to the notion that Dark Souls is all about 'rote memorization', too, as I have when you've said the same thing in the past. Knowing what an area is like, or how to beat a boss, is not the same as being able to do it. Knowing, say, that you have to dodge the Looking Glass Knight's attacks to create an opening to attack, is not the same as being able to do that. That takes timing. Which, last I checked, is something like a skill. You won't get far without knowing it, but just like in WoW, knowing how to do a boss in theory is not the same as being able to do it - and not just because you don't meet a certain gear level.

In a single game, it should be possible to gather literally hundreds of them. Granted, they may not be available to you at the time when you need them, but that's why you have to conserve them. You don't have to use them at a bonfire, which I think is a great change as you don't have to waste them by dying before getting to a boss, so if an area is giving you trouble, save them until the boss ( if you have to - or do the boss without! ). The ring that limits HP loss is great, too, as you lose a maximum of 25% health with that. If you're playing well enough, that should be enough to keep you going except in the most extreme cases.

I agree the Humanity system in Dark Souls was better in some ways, but given the changes made ( no Humanity stat, no humanity scaling weapons ), it was sort of necessary to change it. Having unlimited effigies and no humanity stat would've made it pointless to have in the first place. I can't see any sort of compromise working out, as it connects to all the changes they made with enemy respawns and so on.

It's also possible to become human without them. There's a shrine in Shrine of Amana, and assisting other players will eventually turn you human.
Actually, that's definition of rote memorization. You look for an attack and find a way to exploit it. The rest is your fast-twitch muscles. :P

I wish bosses changed up their attack patterns more in Dark Souls. Some don't and the one's that do don't do it enough.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #466 on: March 21, 2014, 11:12:52 PM »
I've mostly been on a huge DS games kick. Dawn of Heroes, Etrian Odyssey, Monster Tale, some other things.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #467 on: March 21, 2014, 11:25:35 PM »
Actually, that's definition of rote memorization. You look for an attack and find a way to exploit it. The rest is your fast-twitch muscles. :P

I wish bosses changed up their attack patterns more in Dark Souls. Some don't and the one's that do don't do it enough.

I ask again, what is 'real' difficulty? Because barring genuine artificial intelligence and an engine capable of creating unlimited new moves for an enemy, I don't see how you could come close to that. Bosses have sets of moves they use, and they will take advantage of it if they realize some are more successful than others.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #468 on: March 21, 2014, 11:35:15 PM »
Read the second sentence.

Change it up. I had more fun fighting Stalblind in Link Between Worlds because he thew out the shield halfway through. You don't need artificial intelligence to spice up the routines. It gets boring when you know skeleton 9 is out the door on your right every time he respawns, and it gives it a padded feel.

That's not even the real fake difficult. I consider most of it in the realm of stats and whatnot that are just obtuse, but that's been worked on. It's a lot harder to fight a boss when you don't know what your experience points are doing.

Offline JenTrish

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #469 on: March 21, 2014, 11:36:13 PM »
Nothing wrong with that. I love RPGMaker games! ;D Have you tried the Aveyond Series?
I haven't  :o

The reason I mentioned what I did was because most RPG Maker games I've seen all have the same 'feeling' if you know what I mean. The games that come out of RPG Maker tend to be carbon copies of each other, with the exception of a few games.

Offline Oreo

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #470 on: March 21, 2014, 11:43:55 PM »
I haven't  :o

The reason I mentioned what I did was because most RPG Maker games I've seen all have the same 'feeling' if you know what I mean. The games that come out of RPG Maker tend to be carbon copies of each other, with the exception of a few games.

Ahriman's Prophecy is a freebie, though the battle system is real time. The rest of the games are turn based. I think there might also be a font patch.

Offline Shjade

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #471 on: March 22, 2014, 08:26:02 AM »
It's almost like the game begins when you reach Drangleic. In sort of the same way Dark Souls begins when you reach Anor Londo. But it takes a lot longer to get to Drangleic than to Anor Londo.
I find the game becomes fairly irritating around Drangleic, and I put hundreds of hours into DS1 so it's not because the game gets harder at that point. Some of the bosses are just...not fun to fight. The Looking Glass knight is a chore with the hit deflection on his shield messing up swings from the opposite side of his body, and pretty much everything about Darklurker. And the Shrine of Amana, good lord. That water gauntlet with the priestesses is the new Anor Londo run, but it's huge as opposed to just one short segment.

I dunno, man. I just don't know. I don't think DS2 is going to keep me invested the way DS did.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #472 on: March 22, 2014, 09:36:45 AM »
I find the game becomes fairly irritating around Drangleic, and I put hundreds of hours into DS1 so it's not because the game gets harder at that point. Some of the bosses are just...not fun to fight. The Looking Glass knight is a chore with the hit deflection on his shield messing up swings from the opposite side of his body, and pretty much everything about Darklurker. And the Shrine of Amana, good lord. That water gauntlet with the priestesses is the new Anor Londo run, but it's huge as opposed to just one short segment.

I dunno, man. I just don't know. I don't think DS2 is going to keep me invested the way DS did.

I actually found the LGK fun to fight for that reason - it absolutely forced me to dodge his attacks, as if I didn't, I wouldn't have enough time to get into a proper position to hit him.

Shrine of Amana was a major pain, I won't argue with that. I got through just fine by stocking up on arrows and taking it really, really slowly.

Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat. I've spent a good few hours with DS2 already, but as I said in the "what are you playing" thread: If a year from now I feel like playing Dark Souls, it's going to be the first one, not DS2.

Offline Shjade

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #473 on: March 23, 2014, 08:18:04 PM »
Mm. My problem with Dark Souls is I have it on PC, where the multiplayer is...not good. I've really enjoyed being able to actually summon people in DS2 without it failing 90% of the time. And there are signs all over the place! And people even summon me! :o

I will say I've been enjoying a second run of DS2 much more than the first because I have a better grasp of the numbers in the mechanics this time around. Much as it pains me to give up my shield, in DS2 it's felt more like a crutch holding me back than the solid dependable wall a good shield was in DS1. I've given it up in favor of dual wielding in Power Stance, and my god, the difference in damage output already is immense. It's an exceedingly satisfying iteration of high risk-high reward: you have to dodge everything since you can't block or parry, but dat damage. And I was only dual wielding regular falchions. Now that I've got some +3 Varangian Swords, I wholeheartedly expect to see some numbers happen.

This isn't a huge surprise since my first character in DS1 was built horribly, too.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Has anyone played any good video games lately?
« Reply #474 on: March 23, 2014, 08:47:33 PM »
I find my +10 Lightning Mastodon Greatsword quite satisfying. :'D I ended up with a 40 / 30 Strength / Faith build.

I tried dual wielding, but I found it too ... unreliable. It's nice some of the time, but against certain enemies it just doesn't work. Groups of spearmen absolutely tore me apart. I like the idea of having to dodge, but in the end a shield is just more reliable. I wait until I see an opening, two hand my sword, and go to town.

I really don't like how the caps on stats work, though. Getting 1 point of stamina for 1 soul level seems like a very small return for my investment.