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Author Topic: Most annoying historical myths?  (Read 17917 times)

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Offline Kythia

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #475 on: March 13, 2014, 03:15:06 PM »
Right you are, I'd gotten confused because he's in the 9th Bolgia of the 8th circle.

Yeah.  It's always bugged me he's in 8 to be honest.  If we're going with him being a Cardinal surely he should be in 6 with the heretics or 7 with the blasphemers.  But meh.  Probably a bit late to do anything about it.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #476 on: March 13, 2014, 03:54:15 PM »
Weirdly enough there are some people who think sub-Saharan  African peoples never worked with metal or metal objects before Europeans showed up. Well the Zande, Zulu, Akan, Oromo, Amharic, Fon, Yoruba, Igbo, Dinka, Hausa, and Somali peoples would disagree. Just to name a few.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 04:10:17 PM by Lux12 »

Offline Hemingway

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #477 on: March 22, 2014, 09:56:43 AM »
I know I'm late to the katana party, but 'crossroads killings', where a samurai would use a newly acquired sword to kill some hapless innocent who happened to be passing by, apparently actually did occur.

I don't know, maybe there needs to be a thread for myth-sounding events that actually happened. ;D

That is all.

Also, that's brilliant.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #478 on: March 22, 2014, 11:06:05 AM »
I know I'm late to the katana party, but 'crossroads killings', where a samurai would use a newly acquired sword to kill some hapless innocent who happened to be passing by, apparently actually did occur.

I don't know, maybe there needs to be a thread for myth-sounding events that actually happened. ;D



Potlatch? - the custom among some Red Indian tribes where two rival chiefs would give each other more and more expensive and ostentatious gifts, trying to outdo each other - and finally destroying the lot by burning it or hacking it up. The antithesis of capitalist efficiency.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #479 on: March 22, 2014, 11:28:21 AM »
I saw an excellent video on the role of gifts in 'primitive' economies a while back. I can't find it now, though. It's really interesting stuff.

Edit: I think I found it! Here's part one.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 11:41:10 AM by Hemingway »

Offline Lux12

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #480 on: March 22, 2014, 04:19:26 PM »
Some people  think Australian aboriginal peoples are all the same. They may have a number of extremely similar or shared cultural traits, but no they are not. Saying that would be like saying a Hopi is the same as a Navajo person. They may be related but they are certainly not the same people.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 06:32:18 PM by Lux12 »

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #481 on: March 22, 2014, 06:02:46 PM »
To be fair, most people think of "Native culture" as pretty monolithic in North America, too. Which also fits here.

Offline Wayfarer

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #482 on: March 28, 2014, 05:59:16 PM »
The most annoying historical myth for me is the "there were no WMD's found in Iraq" myth that most people accept as fact. The earliest efforts to clandestinely remove Iraqi WMD's were not declassified until 2009. Most of them are still classified today. I guess it just goes to prove the old adage " If you tell a lie often enough..."

Offline Lux12

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #483 on: March 28, 2014, 09:36:58 PM »
The most annoying historical myth for me is the "there were no WMD's found in Iraq" myth that most people accept as fact. The earliest efforts to clandestinely remove Iraqi WMD's were not declassified until 2009. Most of them are still classified today. I guess it just goes to prove the old adage " If you tell a lie often enough..."
Tell that to all the investigators and information out there.

Now for a myth. We know what Christopher Columbus looks like. Actually all the portraits of Columbus that exist are the imaginings of the artists who made them. Columbus never sat down for an official portrait of any kind.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #484 on: April 05, 2014, 01:01:48 PM »
The most annoying historical myth for me is the "there were no WMD's found in Iraq" myth that most people accept as fact. The earliest efforts to clandestinely remove Iraqi WMD's were not declassified until 2009. Most of them are still classified today. I guess it just goes to prove the old adage " If you tell a lie often enough..."
Truth is they had a bunch of sarin gas canisters, the same kind possessed by Syria. We were looking for atomic or biological weapons, which were completely absent, then the administration at the time turned the entire situation into a massive political clusterfuck, including selling out the troop's safety on a number of occasions so that private companies could continue to profiteer.
They also almost completely abandoned Afganistan, reversing a lot of gains that were made, forcing later commanders to start from scratch when trying to get the place under control.

Offline IrishWolf

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #485 on: April 06, 2014, 05:51:37 AM »
The most annoying historical myth I have ever encountered, is brought to us by the residents of the Great White North or Canada as some call it.

Now in my travels throughout the internet and a few times in real life, I have encountered some Canadians, who claim either in a sort of joking tease or as some sort of nasty counter to any point I'm trying to make, that Canadians burned the White House down. Its usually phases as "We burned the White House and we can do it again."

And it's just not true.

What they are referring to is the Burning of Washington during the War of 1812 and for some reason, Canadians (at least some of them) claim it as a victory. While the Canadian Militia fared well during the war, they had nothing to do with the Chesapeake campaign. The army under Major General Robert Ross, was comprised mostly of veteran regiments from Wellington's Peninsular Army, who had been shipped from Spain. The only "native" force with the British Army in the Chesapeake, was the Corps of Colonial Marines, which was raised in the Caribbean from former slaves.

The rest of the army;
The 85th Regiment of Foot "Bucks Volunteers"
The 4th "King's Own" Regiment of Foot
The 44th "East Essex" Regiment of Foot
The 21st "Royal North British Fusilier" Regiment of Foot
Detachments from the First and Second Royal Marines Battalions

Were all raised in England (or Scotland for the 21st).

Online Vekseid

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #486 on: April 06, 2014, 10:23:05 AM »
Truth is they had a bunch of sarin gas canisters, the same kind possessed by Syria. We were looking for atomic or biological weapons, which were completely absent, then the administration at the time turned the entire situation into a massive political clusterfuck, including selling out the troop's safety on a number of occasions so that private companies could continue to profiteer.
They also almost completely abandoned Afganistan, reversing a lot of gains that were made, forcing later commanders to start from scratch when trying to get the place under control.

My favorite response to claims of Iraqi WMDs is "Of course we know Iraq has WMDs, we still have our half of the receipts."

Offline Oniya

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #487 on: April 06, 2014, 10:53:43 AM »
My favorite response to claims of Iraqi WMDs is "Of course we know Iraq has WMDs, we still have our half of the receipts."

*sporfle*

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #488 on: April 06, 2014, 11:31:28 AM »
My favorite response to claims of Iraqi WMDs is "Of course we know Iraq has WMDs, we still have our half of the receipts."

friggin cold war mentality, screw the morality or future impact, we must stop the spread of anything related to russia...
of course the USSR suffered from the same logic towards the US.

Offline TheBlackRider

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #489 on: April 06, 2014, 05:02:12 PM »
My favorite response to claims of Iraqi WMDs is "Of course we know Iraq has WMDs, we still have our half of the receipts."

"But as soon as that check clears, we're going in!"

Man, going back and listening to that, it's a little surreal to think that Bill's talking about the First Gulf War.

Offline DTW

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #490 on: April 06, 2014, 05:06:01 PM »
This is a weird one to people who aren't me/NASCAR fans but Dale Earnhardt never said "Rubbin is  racing". That's a line from Days Of Thunder which was a movie.

He might  have been The Intimidatior and may have popularized getting into people on the oval but that line was originally from Days Of Thunder. A movie about NASCAR.


Offline Lux12

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #491 on: April 07, 2014, 08:32:26 AM »
Here's another one. Ancient people knew nothing of surgery.  Actually the people of India had developed a form of plastic surgery  by 500 B.C. and the Egyptians knew the anatomy of the human body quite well. The actual act of mummification by the Egyptians though post-mortem was  a demonstration of this skill.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #492 on: April 07, 2014, 07:40:25 PM »
The most annoying historical myth I have ever encountered, is brought to us by the residents of the Great White North or Canada as some call it.

Now in my travels throughout the internet and a few times in real life, I have encountered some Canadians, who claim either in a sort of joking tease or as some sort of nasty counter to any point I'm trying to make, that Canadians burned the White House down. Its usually phases as "We burned the White House and we can do it again."

And it's just not true.

What they are referring to is the Burning of Washington during the War of 1812 and for some reason, Canadians (at least some of them) claim it as a victory. While the Canadian Militia fared well during the war, they had nothing to do with the Chesapeake campaign. The army under Major General Robert Ross, was comprised mostly of veteran regiments from Wellington's Peninsular Army, who had been shipped from Spain. The only "native" force with the British Army in the Chesapeake, was the Corps of Colonial Marines, which was raised in the Caribbean from former slaves.

The rest of the army;
The 85th Regiment of Foot "Bucks Volunteers"
The 4th "King's Own" Regiment of Foot
The 44th "East Essex" Regiment of Foot
The 21st "Royal North British Fusilier" Regiment of Foot
Detachments from the First and Second Royal Marines Battalions

Were all raised in England (or Scotland for the 21st).
What you're forgetting is that a lot of those soldiers never went back to England or Scotland, and became Canadian.  Immigration back then was a lot easier and with a lot less paperwork or security involved.

Offline IrishWolf

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #493 on: April 07, 2014, 10:27:05 PM »
What you're forgetting is that a lot of those soldiers never went back to England or Scotland, and became Canadian.  Immigration back then was a lot easier and with a lot less paperwork or security involved.

No, they didn't.

None of the regiments went to Canada after the war. In fact the 4th, 44th, 85th and the 21st did return to England/Scotland and served in the War of the Seventh Coalition. The only regiment to serve garrison in British North America, was the 85th, in 1836, 21 years after the burning of Washington and only stayed there for 7 years before being sent to the West Indies. How many men do you think there were, still in the ranks, 21 years later, who had served during the War of 1812 and were in Canada when their enlistment was up? Not many.

Offline Lux12

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #494 on: April 08, 2014, 04:57:19 PM »
There's this myth that the first "civilization" was in Mespotamia. While it's true that the first long lived widely influential civilization came out of Mesopotamia, the truth is sites like Catalhoyuk tell a very different story.

Offline Rogue

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #495 on: April 08, 2014, 05:04:10 PM »
There's this myth that the first "civilization" was in Mespotamia. While it's true that the first long lived widely influential civilization came out of Mesopotamia, the truth is sites like Catalhoyuk tell a very different story.

Depends on your definition of civilization Lux. Defining a Civilization as more than one population center working together (which is more likely what is meant), Mesopotamia is indeed the first civilization.

Also, since it's relatively new (only 2012) such sites will likely not be included in common history text books for a couple years at least. Since that was the only site referred to, I don't have any other reference material... >.>

Offline Lux12

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #496 on: April 09, 2014, 08:37:16 AM »
Depends on your definition of civilization Lux. Defining a Civilization as more than one population center working together (which is more likely what is meant), Mesopotamia is indeed the first civilization.

Also, since it's relatively new (only 2012) such sites will likely not be included in common history text books for a couple years at least. Since that was the only site referred to, I don't have any other reference material... >.>

Catalhoyuk was just that according to extensive archaeological endeavors and it predates Mesopotamian city states by thousands of years.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #497 on: April 09, 2014, 08:58:54 AM »
I think the second part of Rogue's post - that the site was only discovered recently - is a bit more important in this case.  Up until Catalhoyuk was discovered, Mesopotamia was the earliest known civilization (feel free to provide counterexamples).


Offline Rhapsody

Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #498 on: April 09, 2014, 09:41:37 AM »
I don't know if this has been mentioned already -- there are 20 pages, after all -- but the one that peeves me is jus primae noctis. Oh, and that the pyramids were built by slaves. Those two myths share about the same plateau of eyerolling to me.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Most annoying historical myths?
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2014, 09:49:57 AM »
I'm pretty sure it hadn't been brought up, but I do love Cecil's take on it:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1139/did-medieval-lords-have-right-of-the-first-night-with-the-local-brides
Quote
It's one thing to have your way with the local maidens. It's something else to persuade society as a whole that this is a cool idea. "Sure, honey, we can get married, but first you have to do the rumba with some old guy with bad teeth." Also, once the element of surprise was lost, don't you think this policy would present some risks? Granted women were supposed to be the weaker sex and all, but they knew how to fillet fish.